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RE: What Book Are You Reading at the moment? - 11/20/2019 3:08:38 AM   
yiduvomi

 

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now started Singapore Burning by Colin Smith.

(in reply to warspite1)
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RE: What Book Are You Reading at the moment? - 11/28/2019 4:29:01 PM   
warspite1


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I may have to put Case White and Case Red on hold.... Ordered this today. Arctic Convoys almost done, then Malta Convoys and this puppy




Attachment (1)

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England expects that every man will do his duty. Horatio Nelson October 1805



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RE: What Book Are You Reading at the moment? - 11/28/2019 4:31:12 PM   
demyansk


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Looks good warspite

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RE: What Book Are You Reading at the moment? - 11/28/2019 4:34:24 PM   
warspite1


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quote:

ORIGINAL: demyansk

Looks good warspite

warspite1

I hope so, although coming from O'Hara I expect it to be very Italian-friendly (which is fine where warranted). But the period he's chosen must include the victories of Force K too so hopefully it will be balanced. We'll see


< Message edited by warspite1 -- 11/28/2019 4:35:16 PM >


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England expects that every man will do his duty. Horatio Nelson October 1805



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RE: What Book Are You Reading at the moment? - 11/28/2019 5:16:11 PM   
wodin


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Saint Ruth

quote:

ORIGINAL: wodin
Napoleon the Great A Roberts

That's a great book. I'm only half way through, but a great read.



Great listen too!

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RE: What Book Are You Reading at the moment? - 11/28/2019 10:28:25 PM   
Edorf

 

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Currently reading:

«Hitler`s soldiers, the German army in the Third Reich” - Ben H. Shepherd
“Cataclysm, the war on the Eastern Front 1941-45” - Keith Cumins

Next on my list is probably Lloyd Clark’s “Blitzkrieg”, covering the 1940 campaign against France and the Low Countries.

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RE: What Book Are You Reading at the moment? - 11/29/2019 2:55:45 AM   
warspite1


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Edorf

Next on my list is probably Lloyd Clark’s “Blitzkrieg”, covering the 1940 campaign against France and the Low Countries.

warspite1

I would certainly recommend this.


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England expects that every man will do his duty. Horatio Nelson October 1805



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RE: What Book Are You Reading at the moment? - 12/6/2019 10:30:22 AM   
Topson4

 

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Animal Farm by George Orwell

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RE: What Book Are You Reading at the moment? - 12/8/2019 1:01:07 PM   
Delaware

 

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All the Powers of Earth: The Political Life of Abraham Lincoln vol 3: 1856-1860 by Sidney Blumenthal. Outstanding.
https://www.amazon.com/All-Powers-Earth-Political-1856-1863/dp/1476777284/ref=sr_1_2?keywords=all+the+powers&qid=1575813635&sr=8-2

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RE: What Book Are You Reading at the moment? - 12/8/2019 6:53:07 PM   
springel


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Dozens of recent papers, historical and archaeological, on the Late Roman and Early Mediaeval history of the area of the Netherlands. The depopulation of the 4th century, the rise of the Frankish Kings in the South, the Frisian trade in the river area, the enforcement of Christianity, the contacts with the Danes, Lotharingia in between the proto-French and proto-German Empires.

A lot of stuff happened, but I don't know any wargames that depict that theatre. Crusader Kings fails, because its Carolingian start is just a back-projection of a much later feudal situation that has nothing in common with older power structures.

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RE: What Book Are You Reading at the moment? - 12/9/2019 12:26:52 PM   
Trugrit


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I would recommend:

Confederate Goliath: The Battle of Fort Fisher, by Rod Gragg
https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/1750847.Confederate_Goliath

One of the best war books I have ever read.


(in reply to springel)
Post #: 2831
RE: What Book Are You Reading at the moment? - 12/9/2019 3:47:59 PM   
Chickenboy


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From: San Antonio, TX
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quote:

ORIGINAL: springel

Dozens of recent papers, historical and archaeological, on the Late Roman and Early Mediaeval history of the area of the Netherlands. The depopulation of the 4th century, the rise of the Frankish Kings in the South, the Frisian trade in the river area, the enforcement of Christianity, the contacts with the Danes, Lotharingia in between the proto-French and proto-German Empires.

A lot of stuff happened, but I don't know any wargames that depict that theatre. Crusader Kings fails, because its Carolingian start is just a back-projection of a much later feudal situation that has nothing in common with older power structures.


Interesting stuff, springel. As my avatar suggests, I'm a big fan of the implementation of the effects of malaria on the outcome of the Pacific War. How would you propose a game reflects the battlefield effects of the black death?

_____________________________


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RE: What Book Are You Reading at the moment? - 12/9/2019 4:55:13 PM   
wesy


Posts: 210
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From: Berkeley, CA
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Currently reading:

A World Undone - The Story of the Great War

Heart of Darkness



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RE: What Book Are You Reading at the moment? - 12/9/2019 8:03:09 PM   
Orm


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From: Sweden
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy


quote:

ORIGINAL: springel

Dozens of recent papers, historical and archaeological, on the Late Roman and Early Mediaeval history of the area of the Netherlands. The depopulation of the 4th century, the rise of the Frankish Kings in the South, the Frisian trade in the river area, the enforcement of Christianity, the contacts with the Danes, Lotharingia in between the proto-French and proto-German Empires.

A lot of stuff happened, but I don't know any wargames that depict that theatre. Crusader Kings fails, because its Carolingian start is just a back-projection of a much later feudal situation that has nothing in common with older power structures.


Interesting stuff, springel. As my avatar suggests, I'm a big fan of the implementation of the effects of malaria on the outcome of the Pacific War. How would you propose a game reflects the battlefield effects of the black death?

I am a bit confused. What has the Black Death to do with the "Late Roman and Early Mediaeval history of the area of the Netherlands"?

Please educate me,

_____________________________

Have a bit more patience with newbies. Of course some of them act dumb -- they're often students, for heaven's sake. - Terry Pratchett

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RE: What Book Are You Reading at the moment? - 12/9/2019 8:04:45 PM   
Orm


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quote:

ORIGINAL: springel

Dozens of recent papers, historical and archaeological, on the Late Roman and Early Mediaeval history of the area of the Netherlands. The depopulation of the 4th century, the rise of the Frankish Kings in the South, the Frisian trade in the river area, the enforcement of Christianity, the contacts with the Danes, Lotharingia in between the proto-French and proto-German Empires.

A lot of stuff happened, but I don't know any wargames that depict that theatre. Crusader Kings fails, because its Carolingian start is just a back-projection of a much later feudal situation that has nothing in common with older power structures.

Sounds fascinating. Might there be a book that summarize the period and area in a manner that an amateur could understand?

_____________________________

Have a bit more patience with newbies. Of course some of them act dumb -- they're often students, for heaven's sake. - Terry Pratchett

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RE: What Book Are You Reading at the moment? - 12/9/2019 8:34:20 PM   
Zorch

 

Posts: 6425
Joined: 3/7/2010
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Orm


quote:

ORIGINAL: springel

Dozens of recent papers, historical and archaeological, on the Late Roman and Early Mediaeval history of the area of the Netherlands. The depopulation of the 4th century, the rise of the Frankish Kings in the South, the Frisian trade in the river area, the enforcement of Christianity, the contacts with the Danes, Lotharingia in between the proto-French and proto-German Empires.

A lot of stuff happened, but I don't know any wargames that depict that theatre. Crusader Kings fails, because its Carolingian start is just a back-projection of a much later feudal situation that has nothing in common with older power structures.

Sounds fascinating. Might there be a book that summarize the period and area in a manner that an amateur could understand?

No - that's why they call it the Dark Ages, because it was un-illuminated by history.

(in reply to Orm)
Post #: 2836
RE: What Book Are You Reading at the moment? - 12/9/2019 8:54:41 PM   
springel


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From: Groningen, NL
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Orm


quote:

ORIGINAL: springel

Dozens of recent papers, historical and archaeological, on the Late Roman and Early Mediaeval history of the area of the Netherlands. The depopulation of the 4th century, the rise of the Frankish Kings in the South, the Frisian trade in the river area, the enforcement of Christianity, the contacts with the Danes, Lotharingia in between the proto-French and proto-German Empires.

A lot of stuff happened, but I don't know any wargames that depict that theatre. Crusader Kings fails, because its Carolingian start is just a back-projection of a much later feudal situation that has nothing in common with older power structures.

Sounds fascinating. Might there be a book that summarize the period and area in a manner that an amateur could understand?


Unfortunately, the best books with the modern insights at an introductory level with a grand story are in Dutch.

Also the majority of scientific publications are in Dutch, but here is a link to an English language example of the kind of stuff I read:

From Germania Inferior to Germania Secunda and beyond

You probably have to register to download, you can use a Google or Facebook account, the site is trustworthy as far as I know. From there countless related academic papers are referenced.



< Message edited by springel -- 12/9/2019 9:03:44 PM >

(in reply to Orm)
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RE: What Book Are You Reading at the moment? - 12/9/2019 9:01:59 PM   
Orm


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Zorch


quote:

ORIGINAL: Orm


quote:

ORIGINAL: springel

Dozens of recent papers, historical and archaeological, on the Late Roman and Early Mediaeval history of the area of the Netherlands. The depopulation of the 4th century, the rise of the Frankish Kings in the South, the Frisian trade in the river area, the enforcement of Christianity, the contacts with the Danes, Lotharingia in between the proto-French and proto-German Empires.

A lot of stuff happened, but I don't know any wargames that depict that theatre. Crusader Kings fails, because its Carolingian start is just a back-projection of a much later feudal situation that has nothing in common with older power structures.

Sounds fascinating. Might there be a book that summarize the period and area in a manner that an amateur could understand?

No - that's why they call it the Dark Ages, because it was un-illuminated by history.

That is why they wrongly call it the Dark Ages. The period has never been un-illuminated by history, and lately it is becoming more and more illuminated with each year that passes by. At least in my uneducated and humble opinion.

_____________________________

Have a bit more patience with newbies. Of course some of them act dumb -- they're often students, for heaven's sake. - Terry Pratchett

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RE: What Book Are You Reading at the moment? - 12/9/2019 9:06:52 PM   
Orm


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From: Sweden
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quote:

ORIGINAL: springel

quote:

ORIGINAL: Orm


quote:

ORIGINAL: springel

Dozens of recent papers, historical and archaeological, on the Late Roman and Early Mediaeval history of the area of the Netherlands. The depopulation of the 4th century, the rise of the Frankish Kings in the South, the Frisian trade in the river area, the enforcement of Christianity, the contacts with the Danes, Lotharingia in between the proto-French and proto-German Empires.

A lot of stuff happened, but I don't know any wargames that depict that theatre. Crusader Kings fails, because its Carolingian start is just a back-projection of a much later feudal situation that has nothing in common with older power structures.

Sounds fascinating. Might there be a book that summarize the period and area in a manner that an amateur could understand?


Unfortunately, the best books with the modern insights at an introductory level with a grand story are in Dutch.

Also the majority of scientific publications are in Dutch, but here is a link to an English language example of the kind of stuff I read:

EDIT: wait a moment, that link is to a different paper from the same book.

Social Dynamics in the Northwest Frontiers of the Late Roman Empire

You probably have to register to download, you can use a Google or Facebook account, the site is trustworthy as far as I know. From there countless related academic papers are referenced.



Thank you. I will take a look at it when I get some free time (that isn't spent on playing war games).

Could you please post if any interesting books appear in English about the early Medieval period (or late roman).

_____________________________

Have a bit more patience with newbies. Of course some of them act dumb -- they're often students, for heaven's sake. - Terry Pratchett

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RE: What Book Are You Reading at the moment? - 12/9/2019 9:13:55 PM   
Zorch

 

Posts: 6425
Joined: 3/7/2010
Status: online

quote:

ORIGINAL: Orm


quote:

ORIGINAL: Zorch


quote:

ORIGINAL: Orm


quote:

ORIGINAL: springel

Dozens of recent papers, historical and archaeological, on the Late Roman and Early Mediaeval history of the area of the Netherlands. The depopulation of the 4th century, the rise of the Frankish Kings in the South, the Frisian trade in the river area, the enforcement of Christianity, the contacts with the Danes, Lotharingia in between the proto-French and proto-German Empires.

A lot of stuff happened, but I don't know any wargames that depict that theatre. Crusader Kings fails, because its Carolingian start is just a back-projection of a much later feudal situation that has nothing in common with older power structures.

Sounds fascinating. Might there be a book that summarize the period and area in a manner that an amateur could understand?

No - that's why they call it the Dark Ages, because it was un-illuminated by history.

That is why they wrongly call it the Dark Ages. The period has never been un-illuminated by history, and lately it is becoming more and more illuminated with each year that passes by. At least in my uneducated and humble opinion.

You are correct, sir.

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Post #: 2840
RE: What Book Are You Reading at the moment? - 12/9/2019 9:17:22 PM   
springel


Posts: 156
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From: Groningen, NL
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Orm


quote:

ORIGINAL: Zorch


quote:

ORIGINAL: Orm


quote:

ORIGINAL: springel

Dozens of recent papers, historical and archaeological, on the Late Roman and Early Mediaeval history of the area of the Netherlands. The depopulation of the 4th century, the rise of the Frankish Kings in the South, the Frisian trade in the river area, the enforcement of Christianity, the contacts with the Danes, Lotharingia in between the proto-French and proto-German Empires.

A lot of stuff happened, but I don't know any wargames that depict that theatre. Crusader Kings fails, because its Carolingian start is just a back-projection of a much later feudal situation that has nothing in common with older power structures.

Sounds fascinating. Might there be a book that summarize the period and area in a manner that an amateur could understand?

No - that's why they call it the Dark Ages, because it was un-illuminated by history.

That is why they wrongly call it the Dark Ages. The period has never been un-illuminated by history, and lately it is becoming more and more illuminated with each year that passes by. At least in my uneducated and humble opinion.


True.

And Dark Eges?
"The First Golden Century",
https://geschiedenis-winkel.nl/de-eerste-gouden-eeuw-luit-van-der-tuuk-6370.html
about the 8th and 9th century trade network connecting all of the North Sea borders and the Baltic with the Roman industrial heritage of the Frankish Kingdoms.

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RE: What Book Are You Reading at the moment? - 12/9/2019 9:29:03 PM   
springel


Posts: 156
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From: Groningen, NL
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy


quote:

ORIGINAL: springel

Dozens of recent papers, historical and archaeological, on the Late Roman and Early Mediaeval history of the area of the Netherlands. The depopulation of the 4th century, the rise of the Frankish Kings in the South, the Frisian trade in the river area, the enforcement of Christianity, the contacts with the Danes, Lotharingia in between the proto-French and proto-German Empires.

A lot of stuff happened, but I don't know any wargames that depict that theatre. Crusader Kings fails, because its Carolingian start is just a back-projection of a much later feudal situation that has nothing in common with older power structures.


Interesting stuff, springel. As my avatar suggests, I'm a big fan of the implementation of the effects of malaria on the outcome of the Pacific War. How would you propose a game reflects the battlefield effects of the black death?


I don't know if a plague was to blame for the population hiatus in large parts of the Netherlands. There is no evidence for that, and Justinianus' plague seems to have been less catastrophic than sometimes suggested.

From the 14th century plague it seems that it has intensified conflict, certainly relative to its diminished population. But its influence would be on the strategic and economic layer, rather than on the battlefield layer, I think.

On the operational level the battlefield may have influenced the (spread of new waves of the) plague more than the other way around.

In the field ordinary diseases like dysentery and typhoid had probably greater impact than the Black Death.

(in reply to Chickenboy)
Post #: 2842
RE: What Book Are You Reading at the moment? - 12/9/2019 9:35:40 PM   
Chickenboy


Posts: 24282
Joined: 6/29/2002
From: San Antonio, TX
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Orm


quote:

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy


quote:

ORIGINAL: springel

Dozens of recent papers, historical and archaeological, on the Late Roman and Early Mediaeval history of the area of the Netherlands. The depopulation of the 4th century, the rise of the Frankish Kings in the South, the Frisian trade in the river area, the enforcement of Christianity, the contacts with the Danes, Lotharingia in between the proto-French and proto-German Empires.

A lot of stuff happened, but I don't know any wargames that depict that theatre. Crusader Kings fails, because its Carolingian start is just a back-projection of a much later feudal situation that has nothing in common with older power structures.


Interesting stuff, springel. As my avatar suggests, I'm a big fan of the implementation of the effects of malaria on the outcome of the Pacific War. How would you propose a game reflects the battlefield effects of the black death?

I am a bit confused. What has the Black Death to do with the "Late Roman and Early Mediaeval history of the area of the Netherlands"?

Please educate me,


Orm,

I don't intend to have this thread turned into another GD Q/A session/ diatribe / argument, like some other threads have become. My comments to springel weren't intended for your ears and do not / should not denote an interest in descending into a point/counterpoint 'gotcha' with you or anybody else not named springel.

I had always consider that the Middle Ages in European history were about a thousand years old, from circa 500-1500 or thereabouts. As the Black Death was recognized to start in Europe in 1347 and went along from there, I guess that this would be the LATE Medieval time period and not the EARLY Medieval time period. I am so very, very sorry for any misunderstanding.

The comment about the 'depopulation of the 4th century' in the Netherlands made me think that this could have been due to disease-as I know nothing about why an area of Europe was depopulated at the time. In hindsight, it's likely too early for Bubonic or Pneumonic Plague, I suppose, but could be another form of disease.

So, springel-why *were* the Netherlands depopulated in the 4th century?

_____________________________


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RE: What Book Are You Reading at the moment? - 12/9/2019 9:36:39 PM   
springel


Posts: 156
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From: Groningen, NL
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But in the Early Middle Ages I read about a lot of Frankish expeditions into Italy that failed because of either an outbreak of disease in the army, or the death of the King himself by disease. From the 9th to the 13th century, it kept happening. Also, many Popes were very competent in the art of poison, but not just the Popes.

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Post #: 2844
RE: What Book Are You Reading at the moment? - 12/9/2019 9:38:25 PM   
Chickenboy


Posts: 24282
Joined: 6/29/2002
From: San Antonio, TX
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: springel


quote:

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy


quote:

ORIGINAL: springel

Dozens of recent papers, historical and archaeological, on the Late Roman and Early Mediaeval history of the area of the Netherlands. The depopulation of the 4th century, the rise of the Frankish Kings in the South, the Frisian trade in the river area, the enforcement of Christianity, the contacts with the Danes, Lotharingia in between the proto-French and proto-German Empires.

A lot of stuff happened, but I don't know any wargames that depict that theatre. Crusader Kings fails, because its Carolingian start is just a back-projection of a much later feudal situation that has nothing in common with older power structures.


Interesting stuff, springel. As my avatar suggests, I'm a big fan of the implementation of the effects of malaria on the outcome of the Pacific War. How would you propose a game reflects the battlefield effects of the black death?


I don't know if a plague was to blame for the population hiatus in large parts of the Netherlands. There is no evidence for that, and Justinianus' plague seems to have been less catastrophic than sometimes suggested.

From the 14th century plague it seems that it has intensified conflict, certainly relative to its diminished population. But its influence would be on the strategic and economic layer, rather than on the battlefield layer, I think.

On the operational level the battlefield may have influenced the (spread of new waves of the) plague more than the other way around.

In the field ordinary diseases like dysentery and typhoid had probably greater impact than the Black Death.


Thank you for your reply, springel.

_____________________________


(in reply to springel)
Post #: 2845
RE: What Book Are You Reading at the moment? - 12/9/2019 9:53:57 PM   
springel


Posts: 156
Joined: 1/2/2005
From: Groningen, NL
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy
So, springel-why *were* the Netherlands depopulated in the 4th century?


Large parts of it, Yes.

The parts South of the River Rhine were abandoned in the late 3rd century by the Roman civil administration and the (Romanized) population followed into Gaul, South of Brussels.

The Northern coastal flood planes, that had become was densely populated in the 1st century, thriving on the economic activity in the Roman Empire to the South, were also almost completely abandoned at approximately the same time. From thousands of settlements, only a handful has continued. A couple of houses at each river estuary, that was all that remained until the late 4th century, when Angles resettled the area.

On the West coast similarly only a few houses in the dunes near streams were maintained.

Only on the sandy high grounds in the East, the former iron age population continued and became Saxon. Some decline in the population, but continuity.

The most probable explanation is that all those people migrated, some to Britannia, most to Northern Francia.

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Post #: 2846
RE: What Book Are You Reading at the moment? - 12/10/2019 5:50:48 AM   
warspite1


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quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1

.....So happy with this I've bought Malta Convoys 1940-1943 too to dive straight into once I'm done



warspite1

Four chapters in and the author has not even got to the convoys yet! He's certainly set the scene nicely.

I really like this author and the two books read so far, so shouldn't be surprised that this is another excellent work.


< Message edited by warspite1 -- 12/10/2019 5:51:23 AM >


_____________________________

England expects that every man will do his duty. Horatio Nelson October 1805



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Post #: 2847
RE: What Book Are You Reading at the moment? - 12/16/2019 3:11:39 PM   
RFalvo69


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I read this one in high-school (the Italian translation), and now I was able to track a copy in the original language.



I knew Nevil Shute for "On the Beach" (I mean... who doesn't?). This book is quite different, but it manages to be charming without becoming tacky or sugary. The odyssey of the English people living in SE Asia after the Japanese occupation is told in a frank style, even if it avoids the most lurid parts. It is really a beautiful yarn.

_____________________________

"Yes darling, I served in the Navy for eight years. I was a cook..."
"Oh dad... so you were a God-damned cook?"

(My 10 years old daughter after watching "The Hunt for Red October")

(in reply to warspite1)
Post #: 2848
RE: What Book Are You Reading at the moment? - 12/18/2019 5:20:56 AM   
warspite1


Posts: 40709
Joined: 2/2/2008
From: England
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quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1

I may have to put Case White and Case Red on hold.... Ordered this today. Arctic Convoys almost done, then Malta Convoys and this puppy



warspite1

Couldn't wait!! So now its Malta Convoys on the train to and from work, and Six Victories in bed. It's slower this way (I can't get too much done before tiredness, in my frail dotage, takes over and the next thing I know I am wakened by the book smacking against my face) but when books are this good.....


< Message edited by warspite1 -- 12/18/2019 5:22:22 AM >


_____________________________

England expects that every man will do his duty. Horatio Nelson October 1805



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Post #: 2849
RE: What Book Are You Reading at the moment? - 12/18/2019 4:41:49 PM   
Chickenboy


Posts: 24282
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From: San Antonio, TX
Status: offline
Six Victories in bed, eh? Sounds a little vainglorious to me, but what does Mrs. Warspite1 think of that?

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