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Early game pirates - 2/16/2012 4:00:44 PM   
Bingeling

 

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I wonder if it is just me...

I started a new game, 6x6, young expansion, but I have starting conditions.

Pirates are just silly, and they were like this on my first (and only) legends game too. I get attacked, and sit with my 3 destroyer fleet at the wrong gas mine in the system. I stand no chance at saving the other gas mine from a pirate frigate. I assume it will solve itself with time like in the first game. Partly due to better equipment, and party due to pushing them further away by own expansion.

But really? Just a few systems, a fleet in the correct one, and no chance at saving the base? A short hop away (neightbour system), and an escorts blasts the mine away easily.

This seems a tad unfriendly to me, and basically requires an early improvement to shield technology/design. And of course, the rail guns don't help, but it is not rail guns that kill the bases :)
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RE: Early game pirates - 2/16/2012 6:56:13 PM   
Gzu

 

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From my experience in early game(at the beginning) it's cheaper to pay protection fee
At least until you find pirate base.

(in reply to Bingeling)
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RE: Early game pirates - 2/16/2012 7:30:48 PM   
LiquidSky


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What I do is immediately design a better gas mining station. (The same with the mining station)

Turn it into a Star Base...usually I go the full 690 space. 20 blasters. 10 shields. 10 armour. That sort of thing.

Then when they attack your gas station, they get blown up real good.

_____________________________

“My logisticians are a humorless lot … they know if my campaign fails, they are the first ones I will slay.” – Alexander the Great

(in reply to Gzu)
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RE: Early game pirates - 2/16/2012 7:42:12 PM   
ASHBERY76


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I personally think they are too weak and the pay protection,alliance fee is a pittance because you have so much money.

You have the option to turn them off if you do not like them.

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(in reply to LiquidSky)
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RE: Early game pirates - 2/16/2012 9:40:03 PM   
tjhkkr


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If I might suggest a different strategy...
I arm my mining stations with a laser or two and upgrade the shields. Between the lasers and the shields, it gives time for my units to close in for the kill.
The other thing that I do is put an AWACs ship out and find the pirate bases and blow the snot out of them. Between the two, I am able to keep the pirates down to a minor nuisance.

_____________________________

Remember that the evil which is now in the world will become yet more powerful, and that it is not evil which conquers evil, but only love -- Olga Romanov.

(in reply to ASHBERY76)
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RE: Early game pirates - 2/17/2012 12:12:12 AM   
Bingeling

 

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I don't want to arm my common bases. I can build a few core refueling stops, though. But I basically watched a frigate blow half the base's shields away at the opening salvo...

And protection fees? Really? I guess I could build some minimum cost bases to cover every possible pirate location too, apart form many of them being in space controlled by other powers and that the pirates would probably kill them while I build them. Keeping bases alive but killing all ships could also be an option. I am not sure if they grow new, or not...

It is a bit awkward starting out. I have the starting escort, frigate and 6 destroyers. The destroyers making 2 three ship fleets. And I found a decent alien cruiser. With 3 fighting forces, sending one on a random chase for pirates is spreading things thin... And if I want to build some space stations, I need to babysit those for a long time as well, or the pirates will kill them.

I can research shield upgrades, but I want my colonization tech and construction yards, so there is really no resources to research them. I can also add a couple more shields until my shields get better.

I can handle this one way or another, what I really ponder is: Is it really this hard? I do of course not make things easier by having a starting vs young start, unstable galaxy, and trying home world... And I guess starting at the very bottom corner of the galaxy is not helpful for early expansion either, but it keeps my back free. But it did not use to be this cruel in ROTS, as far as I can remember.

(in reply to tjhkkr)
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RE: Early game pirates - 2/17/2012 12:30:39 AM   
shinobu


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Pay the protection money at first and pump the pirates for information- EXTREMELY handy when starting a game- find out where their base is after you have built up your military a bit, then blast them! BTW, I like to "save" my pirates for destruction until after I've met a few other races. In the early going, when your "first contacts" don't like you much, it really helps to "break the ice" with aliens if you blow away a few pirate bases, thus building up your reputation...

(in reply to Bingeling)
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RE: Early game pirates - 2/17/2012 12:40:27 AM   
Bingeling

 

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I tend to not deal with pirates, and pumping them for information is not so interesting when you are somewhat broke. And I think you have the reputation from killing pirates whether you kill them before or after you meet other races?

I have some spare cash, I could also hire more ships, but not saving the base when you are already stationed in the correct system is frustrating.

(in reply to shinobu)
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RE: Early game pirates - 2/17/2012 12:47:41 AM   
tjhkkr


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Well, you have to pay SOMEWHERE...

You either have to
- buy the pirates off OR
- pay for more escorts to cover your far flung resources OR
- pay to arm the resource stations OR
- pay for minimal 'guard' bases (a practice I have tried and found unusable) OR
- pay to find the pirates and blow them away before they can hit you.

Truthfully, I have found arming the mining bases mixed with a frigate/escort reaction force to be the most cost-effective.

_____________________________

Remember that the evil which is now in the world will become yet more powerful, and that it is not evil which conquers evil, but only love -- Olga Romanov.

(in reply to Bingeling)
Post #: 9
RE: Early game pirates - 2/17/2012 12:54:53 AM   
feelotraveller


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I'm a bit puzzled why you had all 3 destroyers at one gas mining base and none at the other...  If they were split you would have some (probably more than enough) force to meet any pirate attack.

More generally, spread your defending forces out and add a shield or two to your mining bases.  Hopefully the delay allows other forces to get there.

Yes pirates are a pain at the beginning.  But if anything I have found them less virulent than in RotS. 

(in reply to Bingeling)
Post #: 10
RE: Early game pirates - 2/17/2012 8:23:44 AM   
Bingeling

 

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It could be that spreading the forces thinner, and waiting with single ships at the most attacked mines could be the solution.

I guess a small fleet that covers a few systems has worked too well for me in the past. For some reason it does not work at early technology in this version.

I have read the "bribe the pirates" tip a lot, and I never used to see the need for it :)

(in reply to feelotraveller)
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RE: Early game pirates - 2/17/2012 4:06:35 PM   
scotten_usa

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: tjhkkr
The other thing that I do is put an AWACs ship out and find the pirate bases and blow the snot out of them. Between the two, I am able to keep the pirates down to a minor nuisance.


What is your design for an AWAC ship? I've wanted to create a ship specifically to sniff out pirate bases, but couldn't figure on the right components to do so.

(in reply to tjhkkr)
Post #: 12
RE: Early game pirates - 2/17/2012 4:28:28 PM   
Bingeling

 

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For sniffing pirate bases a long range scanner is of course useful. But that is no option in early game. As a desperation measure it is possible to queue orders to jump between systems that have no known contents.

(in reply to scotten_usa)
Post #: 13
RE: Early game pirates - 2/17/2012 6:31:35 PM   
tjhkkr


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quote:

ORIGINAL: ScottenChi
quote:

ORIGINAL: tjhkkr
The other thing that I do is put an AWACs ship out and find the pirate bases and blow the snot out of them. Between the two, I am able to keep the pirates down to a minor nuisance.

What is your design for an AWAC ship? I've wanted to create a ship specifically to sniff out pirate bases, but couldn't figure on the right components to do so.


I have two designs... both based on a destroyer hull.

The first is a fast scout where I strip away the hangers, all but 2 lasers and 1 point defense cannon [enough weapons and shields to keep the ship alive as it runs away from combat as a scout ship should do]. Look at your monitor battle station, that has a long range sensor on it. I add that sensor PLUS, some energy collectors, an extra fuel tank. That allows me to patrol the area quickly and find all the pirate bases... and I have a navy task force come behind it to blow the snot out of the bases.

The second design removes the hanger and leaves most of the weapons (I think I have to remove torpedos), add the sensor, and I think one energy collector. That one rides with the fleet. It is the ship that sucks down the most fuel. The second design is best done with a cruiser hull later in the game, but one does not ahve that option early on.

And one other thing... all my ships are up-shielded.


_____________________________

Remember that the evil which is now in the world will become yet more powerful, and that it is not evil which conquers evil, but only love -- Olga Romanov.

(in reply to scotten_usa)
Post #: 14
RE: Early game pirates - 2/17/2012 8:03:17 PM   
LiquidSky


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I was amused to see the AI was smart enough to attack one of my Gas Mining Base's by circling it with a pair of destroyers and lobbing long range missles at it. Unfortunately for them, my base also had 10 armour and 10 shields, and an enlarged fuel tank, so it could sit there a long time...until help arrived.



_____________________________

“My logisticians are a humorless lot … they know if my campaign fails, they are the first ones I will slay.” – Alexander the Great

(in reply to tjhkkr)
Post #: 15
RE: Early game pirates - 2/17/2012 8:32:31 PM   
Bingeling

 

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I think that is standard "stand off against stronger opponents" kicking in.

(in reply to LiquidSky)
Post #: 16
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