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AI+ Still BS

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AI+ Still BS - 2/5/2012 11:37:21 PM   


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So I come back after a year of absence to see that nothing has done to the incredibly BS way of handling difficulty in this game other then adding an even easier AI option.

AI- (Not trying it)
AI (To easy)
AI+ (Magnitudes harder then AI)
AI++ (Why would i even bother)

Is there seriously any logical reason as to why one would add difficulty settings that make no sense whatsoever? Why in gods name can we not have something between AI and AI+. I'm severely disappointed that something so small has not been changed in such a long time and I will really have to decide carefully whether to spend money on future products from the dev. If it is not a small change then something was done very wrong in the games coding. Either way it's BS.

It is not a small issue. The difference between the AI strengths is just outright stupid and it makes the game unplayable (for me). I want a challenge but I do not want to be swarmed by hundreds and hundreds of units at turn 6. It's like having the option of playing chess between a 5 year old and a grand master. Why even bother.

No I'm not "modding it myself". I didn't buy a game to develop it further. I bought it so i can PLAY IT. No I'm not going to use the resource mod to up the difficulty. (I do in fact use the RM and love it. But I don't want it to be my only option for difficulty increase. What if I want to play on AI+? Then I HAVE to turn it off.. but I want to use it because it increases immersion)

Obviously this is a subjective thing but there you have it. My subjective opinion. I would understand if this was an over the top request but it is literally (or should be) nothing but a small tweak. It is not unreasonable. I'm fairly sure that anybody who takes the fanboy glasses off will agree that the difference between the two settings is IMMENSE. all one has to do is start a game and count the strengths and sizes of the units the AI sends at you. Not to mention that it has infantry II or III (plus other techs) within 10 turns. Oh.. and it gangs up on you. Every game. Or at least seems to favor you as an enemy

Reason it bothers me is because this game is actually my faveroute wargame but it is destroyed by this terrible way of handling difficulty.

So despite my over the top bitching: Keep up the good work on the mechanics side


How about this:

AI- Ai sucks a bit. Good for practicing or just wanting an easy game
AI Games AI is coded great but it is just an AI. Decent challenge at first
AI+ 25% Bonuses create a fair challenge
AI++ 50% Bonuses. Must be pretty skilled to win
AI+++ 100% Bonuses. Must be much better then dakasha to win
AI++++ 200% Bonuses. Must be the developer with cheats

< Message edited by DakaSha -- 2/5/2012 11:52:54 PM >
Post #: 1
RE: AI+ Still BS - 2/6/2012 2:52:22 AM   


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Now the AI++ is 250%, much more than your AI++++
At first all of us thought so but after we got used to it the mass of AI's units can only help to increase experience.
But no doubt that it is a good advise.

< Message edited by Calliope -- 2/6/2012 2:53:48 AM >

(in reply to DakaSha)
Post #: 2
RE: AI+ Still BS - 2/6/2012 5:09:49 AM   


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Well the current AI++ can suck it then :P

(in reply to Calliope)
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RE: AI+ Still BS - 2/6/2012 7:44:12 PM   
Jay Doubleyou


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How about this: play a human opponent! (of your own skill level) Always way more fun and challenge then playing AI.

(in reply to DakaSha)
Post #: 4
RE: AI+ Still BS - 2/6/2012 8:41:57 PM   


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How about this: Stop making suggestions that have nothing to do with the topic.

(in reply to Jay Doubleyou)
Post #: 5
RE: AI+ Still BS - 2/6/2012 10:07:50 PM   
british exil

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How about this: Stop making suggestions that have nothing to do with the topic.

Sounds a bit rude for a person who likes to play the game, but who doesn't post often.
Someone was only pointing out that a human player is always more of an opponant than any AI.
The "How about this" was only using the the words mentioned in the first post. So I doubt that there was any need to be so cold in the response that was given, although at times we may just have had a bad day and need to vent our energy in some direction.

All of us who play the game have "complained" to Vic about changes that need to be made. Just see the the thread AT Platinum. Some people here are also willing to help to make the game better.

Heh being a complete video game nerd for 20+ years, being a programmer and being completely obsessive compulsive helps :P
Ill post as i find�

If you have any ideas how to improve the game I'm sure Vic would have an open ear. Ask him.



"It is not enough to expect a man to pay for the best, you must also give him what he pays for." Alfred Dunhill


(in reply to DakaSha)
Post #: 6
RE: AI+ Still BS - 2/7/2012 4:36:55 AM   


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No it's rude and typical and i was just waiting for somebody to respond like that (It's VERY common in these matrix forums). Do you seriously think I need it pointed out to me? that I do not know that humans are more of a challenge? It had nothing to do with my post and if anything only help encourage the dev to just ignore the issue: "Play humans if you don't like it" is not a solution. I responded the way I did (and stand by it) because it annoyed me. And still annoys me. If that makes me a jerk then.. ok ? I obviously want to play the AI or i wouldnt care :roll:

Anyways I posted ALOT in a short time frame after the game was released (there are things in the patch logs that were brought up by me in fact. Vic did seem to work on bugs and obvious unintended gameplay flaws) and im not playing beta tester any more. I don't see what my current post count has to do with anything.

I don't understand your last sentence. You linked to a thread by me that is very old. And obviously nothing was ever done. (which is the reason for this thread) so i think that saying your sure that vic will have an open ear is quite ironic.

As in the past I will say that despite my bitching the game is (or rather could be) very very good. It's just to bad that I bought the thing for 60 bucks and cant even play it due to nothing but an idiotic way of handling difficulty levels. I'd recommend it to anybody without hesitation for multiplayer play (which i have no interest in)

Anyways thats it for me here. I've said what I needed to say. Fanboys will be fanboys (not that its been bad in this thread) and devs will be devs and ill be playing something else. cya

edit: and i dont "help" making other peoples product better. thats worse then paying to wear a companies logo. IMO anyways

< Message edited by DakaSha -- 2/7/2012 4:42:26 AM >

(in reply to british exil)
Post #: 7
RE: AI+ Still BS - 2/7/2012 9:19:00 PM   

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I believe a good way to handle this would be to eliminate preset AI levels and use a slider, with upper and lower limits (i.e 110%, 120%, etc.)


Tac2i (formerly webizen)

(in reply to DakaSha)
Post #: 8
RE: AI+ Still BS - 2/8/2012 3:38:53 AM   


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That makes the game run much smoothly.

(in reply to Tac2i)
Post #: 9
RE: AI+ Still BS - 2/8/2012 1:58:40 PM   


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Maybe im crazy, but have you tried using a mix of AI types when you play a game.

My single player games are usually on tower maps (usually width wise, with a bit of water) with 8 players. 4 AI, 2 AI+, 1 AI++, and myself.

It lends itself to a more challenging game. Though theres only so challenging the AI can be. No matter what level it is, I can build good divisions, sit them on the front line, and merely collect formation experiance till the point im unstoppable.

No matter what bonus or lack of bonus the AI has, nothing short god himself granting AI sentience, its never going to be "smart". Its not going to extrapolate data about what you MIGHT do, only what you have already done. In that regardm no matter the bonus, all AI is predictable, and easily beaten.

But do at least try a mix of the AI types in a single game, might find it fills the gap between AI and AI+.



If youre not using the resource and leader mod. Yer a girly man. Try that mod vs the AI and cry like a baby.

(in reply to Calliope)
Post #: 10
RE: AI+ Still BS - 2/9/2012 4:52:40 AM   


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Heh, the AI.

This is exactly why I didn't waste $25 upgrading. It hasn't improved.

A slider would help but what would be better would be a decent ai that plays with little or no cheating. Not gonna happen in my lifetime though.

(in reply to Krafty)
Post #: 11
RE: AI+ Still BS - 2/9/2012 8:11:33 PM   


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Id rank the AI as standard game AI. Better than Hearts of Iron (abysmal) not as good as MOO (face rapingly good). On par with Dominions 3, War in the East, Civ4, Pride of Nations, etc. It understands the game concepts, and plays as well as a human who understands the genre, but has never read the manual. 

(in reply to rich12545)
Post #: 12
RE: AI+ Still BS - 3/26/2012 1:14:44 AM   
Adam Rinkleff


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It would be nice to see the AI at least tweaked so that it builds some reasonable units. Like instead of having the AI decide to build lots of worthless all infantry units supported by occasional stacks of 20 armored cars... why not add some feature which allows the designer to tell the AI to build better units with more variety?

(in reply to Krafty)
Post #: 13
RE: AI+ Still BS - 3/26/2012 9:01:49 AM   


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Sounds a bit rude for a person who likes to play the game, but who doesn't post often.

(in reply to Adam Rinkleff)
Post #: 14
RE: AI+ Still BS - 3/27/2012 7:58:32 PM   


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DakaSha: Look, you generally get treated the way you treat other people. Starting a thread calling the AI bulls*it pretty much guarantees that people have a less delightful attitude towards you than they might have otherwise.

And, by the way. I can understand your objections to modding the game yourself in theory/principle. In practice the nescessary modding changes would probably not have taken more time to do than for you to write your initial post. If this really is your favorite wargame maybe you should investigate how to do it. To be clear, it doesnt matter to me if you do or not. But it does seem to matter a lot to you and you shouldnt let your principles stand in the way of your own happiness.


My Advanced Tactics Mod page

30+ scenarios, maps and mods for AT and AT:G

(in reply to Geoffrey52)
Post #: 15
RE: AI+ Still BS - 3/27/2012 8:31:43 PM   


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edit: and i dont "help" making other peoples product better. thats worse then paying to wear a companies logo. IMO anyways

I never noticed this till this thread got necromancied

What a jerk lol.

I consistently do whatever I can (that isnt any sort of inconvenience to me, im not a saint) to help the companies and businesses that I like and believe in.

Maybe it was just the way I was raised, but I eat the local resturants, drink at the local bars (work at one on a naval base infact) buy from local stores, eat local groceries, even buy some of the expansions and games from develops and companies I like, even if I have zero intention of playing the game (Don to the Danube comes to mind, omg who CARES, but ill buy it anyways cause I love Gary and want him to make a living doing what he loves.). Of course I wont spend my money at places or on companies I DONT believe in. And if Dakasha here doesnt care much for the company fine. I think they provide quality experiances.

But im just stunned that someone would so callously admit that they never do anything to help businesses they believe in.

And its not even like its improving their product or service...its like if Comcast runs internet to my house, and they didnt put a jack in the wall in my office. Im not "improving" their product or wasting much of my time by grabbing some CATV and a drill, and fixing that little oversight.

Its not like im going around drilling holes all over the neighborhood.

Dakasha its not like you have to release a freaking total conversion mod...simply make the changes you want.

How is that any different or more time consuming the reading the manual, then clicking on the terrian and game set up options you want.

Crap man consider it PART of the set up options.

Do you want roads, low tech costs, maybe riflemen to have 1000 hp...I dont know...thats up to you. You clearly have no intention of playing against any of us or being a part of the community :P

(in reply to DakaSha)
Post #: 16
RE: AI+ Still BS - 3/29/2012 9:30:46 AM   


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Well the current AI++ can suck it then :P

(in reply to Krafty)
Post #: 17
RE: AI+ Still BS - 5/8/2012 2:26:19 AM   

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I can't even beat normal AI.


(in reply to Georgia145)
Post #: 18
RE: AI+ Still BS - 8/23/2012 5:49:12 PM   


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I beat AI++ i must be superman!!


-Alpha Tester Carrier Force
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-Beta Tester Command

(in reply to jomni)
Post #: 19
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