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Germann FBD not doing the job

 
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Germann FBD not doing the job - 12/17/2011 5:51:03 PM   
HITMAN202


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Occasionally in advancing the FBD I have not cleared the rail behind and the RRC section on the FBD unit keeps the "-" symbol. Also I've experienced FBD's at the end of their move refusing to repair the occupied hex (apparently "tired" for random game reasons), with the repair work continuing unabated at the start of the next turn. But now I have one of those suckers who will not work. I think I have dotted all the i's and crossed my t's, but the dudes still are on strike. ??????
Post #: 1
RE: Germann FBD not doing the job - 12/17/2011 7:25:48 PM   
heliodorus04


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Things that can screw up rail advancement that you might not recognize include a partisan attack up-stream.  ANY damage to a rail line upstream causes the FBD to refuse to work.  It's dumb, and I've criticized it before, but WitE does everything it can to reduce German effectiveness short of not giving them ammunition.

The same effect will happen if a Soviet unit gets ZOC on the rail line upstream, EVEN if that ZOC is covered by a friendly unit.

Other than that, the likely culprit is that you are trying to improve a rail line that is more than 4 hexes from where your rail head was at the start of the turn. 

Considering how serious a blow it is to German advance capabilities when an FBD loses a whole turn, these gamebreakers should be removed.  Nothing sucks the enjoyment out of playing Axis more than seeing your effectiveness stolen by bullshit game mechanics like this, rather than your opponent's gameplay. 


_____________________________

Spring 2018-Playing: Demyansk Shield: Frozen Fortress; Advanced Squad Leader,
Reading: Bonhoeffer
Rulebooks: ASL (always ASL), Holland'44, Demyansk Shield: Frozen Fortress

(in reply to HITMAN202)
Post #: 2
RE: Germann FBD not doing the job - 12/17/2011 7:32:00 PM   
gingerbread


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From: Sweden
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Hit 'r' to see the outlay of your rail network.

(in reply to heliodorus04)
Post #: 3
RE: Germann FBD not doing the job - 12/17/2011 8:09:41 PM   
HITMAN202


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Further scrutiny revealed that I had failed to dot an i. The good and the bad of this game is it takes time to be good, but very little to be bad, and stay bad if you don't do the simple things.

(in reply to gingerbread)
Post #: 4
RE: Germann FBD not doing the job - 12/22/2011 2:20:05 PM   
Cavalry Corp

 

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Controlling these units on both sides which I suspect ( feel) have too much repair function would be one of the best ways to slow the game for both sides. As well as range from railhead for supply- less for Foot units - representing more horse transport. That way mech units will become more important and more vulnerable.Offensives would burn out faster. A typical large offensive for the Soviets lasted about a month ( 4-5 turns) before having to slow. Not sure about the Germans but even if better it could not be much. At the moment except in 41 and 42 these rail units seem too fast and keep the momentum of offensives going too long.

I would think that in the long game slowing these guys would slow the rampage and make both players make more considered and less broad offensives.

I wonder why these rail units are so super fast. I think they should be replaced by more units but slower ones on both sides.

I apologise if anything said is stupid I have not been playing this game too long but have played many others, etc.

< Message edited by cavalry -- 12/22/2011 2:23:10 PM >

(in reply to HITMAN202)
Post #: 5
RE: Germann FBD not doing the job - 12/22/2011 6:12:18 PM   
Marquo


Posts: 1373
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quote:

ORIGINAL: heliodorus04

Things that can screw up rail advancement that you might not recognize include a partisan attack up-stream.  ANY damage to a rail line upstream causes the FBD to refuse to work.  It's dumb, and I've criticized it before, but WitE does everything it can to reduce German effectiveness short of not giving them ammunition.

The same effect will happen if a Soviet unit gets ZOC on the rail line upstream, EVEN if that ZOC is covered by a friendly unit.

Other than that, the likely culprit is that you are trying to improve a rail line that is more than 4 hexes from where your rail head was at the start of the turn. 

Considering how serious a blow it is to German advance capabilities when an FBD loses a whole turn, these gamebreakers should be removed.  Nothing sucks the enjoyment out of playing Axis more than seeing your effectiveness stolen by bullshit game mechanics like this, rather than your opponent's gameplay. 




I disagree; rr repair depended on trains bringing up the track and other heavy equipment to the engineers. This effect is perfectly consistent with the frustrations the Werhmacht must have felt as the partizans crippled the Axis logistical net. What is broken is the overly robust Axis logistical net which allows for unreasonable rates of Axis advance and attacks.

Cheers,

Marquo

(in reply to heliodorus04)
Post #: 6
RE: Germann FBD not doing the job - 12/23/2011 3:56:46 AM   
heliodorus04


Posts: 1624
Joined: 11/1/2008
From: Denver Colorado
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Marquo


quote:

ORIGINAL: heliodorus04

Things that can screw up rail advancement that you might not recognize include a partisan attack up-stream.  ANY damage to a rail line upstream causes the FBD to refuse to work.  It's dumb, and I've criticized it before, but WitE does everything it can to reduce German effectiveness short of not giving them ammunition.

The same effect will happen if a Soviet unit gets ZOC on the rail line upstream, EVEN if that ZOC is covered by a friendly unit.

Other than that, the likely culprit is that you are trying to improve a rail line that is more than 4 hexes from where your rail head was at the start of the turn. 

Considering how serious a blow it is to German advance capabilities when an FBD loses a whole turn, these gamebreakers should be removed.  Nothing sucks the enjoyment out of playing Axis more than seeing your effectiveness stolen by bullshit game mechanics like this, rather than your opponent's gameplay. 




I disagree; rr repair depended on trains bringing up the track and other heavy equipment to the engineers. This effect is perfectly consistent with the frustrations the Werhmacht must have felt as the partizans crippled the Axis logistical net. What is broken is the overly robust Axis logistical net which allows for unreasonable rates of Axis advance and attacks.

Cheers,

Marquo


Marquo, if Army Group Center doesn't have any ill effects from the ZOC, then the FBD should not either.

That's my point. 500,000 guys and 200,000 vehicles downstream from the partisan attack do just fine at drawing supply from that rail line, so why should the FBD be any different (and how can you, with any sense of integrity, argue against this point, either).

If I find out that the automated repair units downstream of the ZOC still function on ancillary rail lines, but I'll have to check first to see about that. I'm confident I can find that exception.

Games should be consistent and logical. This treatment of FBDs is neither. Either the whole supply network should suffer, or the FBD should be treated the same as the rest of the units drawing supply from the rail line.

Else, you have a capricious limitation imposed on the Axis by fiat, without consistency nor logical basis in differentiating FBDs from all other units, because the designers don't want Germany to be able to compete on even footing in 1941. The Soviets get passive failsafes imposed on German gameplay.

_____________________________

Spring 2018-Playing: Demyansk Shield: Frozen Fortress; Advanced Squad Leader,
Reading: Bonhoeffer
Rulebooks: ASL (always ASL), Holland'44, Demyansk Shield: Frozen Fortress

(in reply to Marquo)
Post #: 7
RE: Germann FBD not doing the job - 12/23/2011 8:25:42 AM   
randallw

 

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Are you claming that Soviet rail engineer units can repair hexes that aren't part of a linked line? ( that is, they don't have to follow the same rules )

(in reply to heliodorus04)
Post #: 8
RE: Germann FBD not doing the job - 12/23/2011 1:31:21 PM   
Marquo


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"That's my point. 500,000 guys and 200,000 vehicles downstream from the partisan attack do just fine at drawing supply from that rail line, so why should the FBD be any different"

I am confused; units downstream from a partisan attacked rail line do suffer supply effects; "Game play tip: If you are the Axis player, watch out for Soviet partisan attacks on your rail line hexes. Unchecked, partisans can damage enough rail line hexes to cut off some of your forces from the rail network and the supply grid."

Marquo

(in reply to randallw)
Post #: 9
RE: Germann FBD not doing the job - 12/23/2011 8:55:59 PM   
Mentor


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Joined: 12/8/2011
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quote:

ORIGINAL: heliodorus04

Else, you have a capricious limitation imposed on the Axis by fiat, without consistency nor logical basis in differentiating FBDs from all other units, because the designers don't want Germany to be able to compete on even footing in 1941. The Soviets get passive failsafes imposed on German gameplay.


Woah, that's quite the assertion. To what end would the designers do this? Why would you even want to play a game designed by those with such nefarious motives?

The hyperbole is strong in this forum, it is.

(in reply to heliodorus04)
Post #: 10
RE: Germann FBD not doing the job - 12/23/2011 9:58:06 PM   
Aurelian

 

Posts: 4076
Joined: 2/26/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Mentor


quote:

ORIGINAL: heliodorus04

Else, you have a capricious limitation imposed on the Axis by fiat, without consistency nor logical basis in differentiating FBDs from all other units, because the designers don't want Germany to be able to compete on even footing in 1941. The Soviets get passive failsafes imposed on German gameplay.


Woah, that's quite the assertion. To what end would the designers do this? Why would you even want to play a game designed by those with such nefarious motives?

The hyperbole is strong in this forum, it is.


And the constant accusations can't be proven.

Rapidly reaching the level of trolling IMO.

(in reply to Mentor)
Post #: 11
RE: Germann FBD not doing the job - 12/24/2011 1:56:22 AM   
DTurtle

 

Posts: 315
Joined: 4/26/2010
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If you cut off a rail line, then all units pull supply from before that break in the rail line. The rail line is useless until it is repaired. There is no distinction between FBDs and other units.

(in reply to Aurelian)
Post #: 12
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