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JFB vs. AFB personalities - 12/1/2011 10:35:31 PM   
rader


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JFB personalities:

Sand castle builder. Likes to carve empires out of other people's posessions for the greater benefit of all [Japanese people]. Attracts engineers, architects, artists, and megalomaniacs.

AFB personalities:

Sand castle knocker-downer. Likes to tear appart empires to restore the status quo [to the Western Imperialists]. Attracts lawyers, demolision artists, repo men, and litterary critics.

(Just so people don't take offense, I'm not being serious )
Post #: 1
RE: JFB vs. AFB personalities - 12/1/2011 10:49:26 PM   
Commander Stormwolf

 

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JFB also suffer from SCLS (sudden carrier loss syndrome)

before: My fleet is Invincible!

while the dauntlesses are coming down: WHAAAAT?

after: NOOOO....I QUIT!


*the sad thing is .. that's how my last opponent quit after I sunk his carriers in mid 1942..

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RE: JFB vs. AFB personalities - 12/1/2011 10:58:54 PM   
rader


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I think you mean humans suffer from that. It's hard to take a likin' and keep tickin'. But losing the KB in 1942 is pretty harsh. There's really no light at the end of that tunnel.

By the way, I most certainly did not characterize JFBs as engineers because that's what I am, nor AFBs as lawyers because that's what my opponent GreyJoy is...


quote:

ORIGINAL: Commander Stormwolf

JFB also suffer from SCLS (sudden carrier loss syndrome)

before: My fleet is Invincible!

while the dauntlesses are coming down: WHAAAAT?

after: NOOOO....I QUIT!


*the sad thing is .. that's how my last opponent quit after I sunk his carriers in mid 1942..


(in reply to Commander Stormwolf)
Post #: 3
RE: JFB vs. AFB personalities - 12/2/2011 12:25:59 AM   
mike scholl 1

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: rader

I think you mean humans suffer from that. It's hard to take a likin' and keep tickin'. But losing the KB in 1942 is pretty harsh. There's really no light at the end of that tunnel.




This is what I've never understood. Isn't this EXACTLY what did happen to the Japanese in 1942? Why should reality be such a shock to JFB's? Do Allied players quit if they don't crush KB in 1942?

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RE: JFB vs. AFB personalities - 12/2/2011 12:31:27 AM   
Nikademus


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players quit on both sides for a number of reasons. The most common one is a major setback. I've known Allied players to quit if they suffer early loss of their carrier force. Its a long game. People hate to lose in general. Its why good opponents are hard to find. I used to be more partisan about it but i'm softer in my stand now given that it, like BTR is such a huge game that can take years off a person's life.

If both sides agree to a mutual early ending to start a new game (vs. play to the bitter end in 2014) then more power. The ones who disapear in a huff are the ones that annoy and eventually get warned about on the opponents forum.

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RE: JFB vs. AFB personalities - 12/2/2011 12:52:37 AM   
Lecivius


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I lost my BB's, I played on.
I lost my carriers, I played on.
I lost the line islands, I played on.
I lost my last AK...I grabbed a towel.

But I'm much better now

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RE: JFB vs. AFB personalities - 12/2/2011 1:31:55 AM   
wdolson

 

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I've always thought of it as:

JFB either
a) Likes to cheer for the "bad" guy
b) Fan of trying to save lost causes
c) Both of the above

AFB either
a) Lazy
b) Likes to win
c) Is a fan of cool new toys they get as the war goes on

(I'm not completely serious either)

Bill



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RE: JFB vs. AFB personalities - 12/2/2011 1:45:52 AM   
mdiehl

 

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I always figured JFBs were kind of like politicians who complain about the press coverage when the reporting reflects poorly on the politician's track record.

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Didn't we have this conversation already?

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RE: JFB vs. AFB personalities - 12/2/2011 2:18:42 AM   
mike scholl 1

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Nikademus

players quit on both sides for a number of reasons. The most common one is a major setback. I've known Allied players to quit if they suffer early loss of their carrier force. Its a long game. People hate to lose in general. Its why good opponents are hard to find. I used to be more partisan about it but i'm softer in my stand now given that it, like BTR is such a huge game that can take years off a person's life.




That's sort of what I never understood Nik. If you are playing the Japanese, you ARE going to suffer a bunch of major setbacks. Sooner or later, they WILL happen. It's the nature of the beast. I always figured that the true JFB's were the ones who reveled in those "last ditch" situations..., determined to drive his opponant to distraction until the roof collapsed around him. I was lucky enough to find one..., and while I "won" our first game in the end we both enjoyed the struggle so much that we're close to half-way through a second Campaign Game.

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RE: JFB vs. AFB personalities - 12/2/2011 2:23:08 AM   
Mynok


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JFBs like being the underdog. But we get to be the overdog for a while....and how we play that while determines how long we get to play it. It's a fascinating juxtaposition.

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Post #: 10
RE: JFB vs. AFB personalities - 12/2/2011 2:28:30 AM   
mike scholl 1

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Mynok

JFBs like being the underdog. But we get to be the overdog for a while....and how we play that while determines how long we get to play it. It's a fascinating juxtaposition.



That's kinda what I always thought it should be. You get to "raise he11 for 6 months to a year", but then reality rears it's ugly head and it becomes a battle to see how many "spanners" you can toss into your opponants gears...

(in reply to Mynok)
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RE: JFB vs. AFB personalities - 12/2/2011 3:14:36 AM   
Cribtop


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Lost cause lover (check) + megalomaniac (but a very polite one - check).

Of course, by some definitions all Texans qualify as megalomaniacs (kidding - check).

I think most JFBs are attracted by the opportunity for glory. If you win as Allies, you were "supposed to win." If you almost win as Japan, well you're covered in glory.

That said, I intend to play Allies someday for a lot of reasons, not least of which is variety and the ability to have time on my side for once. And you AFBs have pulled off some glorious moves in the form of defeating or halting Japan when the Empire is "supposed to be winning" in 1942.

< Message edited by Cribtop -- 12/2/2011 3:22:16 AM >


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RE: JFB vs. AFB personalities - 12/2/2011 3:36:49 AM   
Redsunrizing


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Being a JFB I realise that I am going into a game that I am ultimately destined to lose, in the real sense of things. But there is this mere chance that I can hold the Allied might off till 1945 and win a victory of sorts. Of course losing your carrier force or some major units is a massive blow to this plan, but to be a JFB you have to be slightly self masochistic also.

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RE: JFB vs. AFB personalities - 12/2/2011 3:45:36 AM   
rader


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quote:

ORIGINAL: mike scholl 1

[This is what I've never understood. Isn't this EXACTLY what did happen to the Japanese in 1942? Why should reality be such a shock to JFB's? Do Allied players quit if they don't crush KB in 1942?


Yes, but I'm pretty sure most of us think Japan made a mistake (well, several) at Midway. And it's different for the Allies. They have lots more CVs coming. The Japanese only have a few in the pipeline. So a major defeat in 1942 might be recoverable for the allies. For the Japanese, it just means a long, slow death.

I think JFBs sort of realize that we have it coming. We just want to make a good show of lasting a long time or doing a bunch of damage as we go down. I think psychologically, you need to say to yourself "no matter what I do, I will lose this war. But I will do my best and have fun doing it."

It's like WiF. I go to a lot of wifcons (week long wif convention). If I want a stressful but challenging game where I can play the underdog, I play Axis. If I just want a "relaxing" week where I can beat up the puppy dog and have fun doing it, I play allies. Lately, I've been going more to the allies. Ultimately the Axis are on defense, watching all they've spent 2 years (war time) to build up coming down in flames. Sometimes it shatters your nerves. Every game of wif as the Axis I fail least one "morale check" where I need to go and rally my nerves. Usually I go for a 30 minute walk to blow off some steam. But I haven't quit a game yet.

The situation is totally different when I play allies. Even if I lose a battle badly, I'm rarely stressed out. I think it makes all the difference that, for the allies, even if the situation looks bad now, you know it will only get better. There is always a light at the end of the tunnel, always a reason to hope. For the Axis, even if everything is smooth sailing, it will probably get worse, and if you're not careful, much worse, and fast. At the end, you will probably be in a bunker somewhere listening to the shells come down around you.


(in reply to mike scholl 1)
Post #: 14
RE: JFB vs. AFB personalities - 12/2/2011 4:30:52 AM   
Chickenboy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Mynok


JFBs like being the underdog. But we get to be the overdog for a while....and how we play that while determines how long we get to play it. It's a fascinating juxtaposition.

I've always preferred the defensive fight. As a JFB, I get to play that aspect of the game longer than the Allies. What's not to like?

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RE: JFB vs. AFB personalities - 12/2/2011 4:34:37 AM   
Chickenboy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: wdolson

I've always thought of it as:

JFB either
a) Likes to cheer for the "bad" guy


The SS *did* have the snazziest uniforms in WWII. Gotta love 'em.

quote:


b) Fan of trying to save lost causes


I grew up as a California Republican. How's that for ya?

quote:


c) Both of the above


Guilty as charged...

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Post #: 16
RE: JFB vs. AFB personalities - 12/2/2011 5:12:50 AM   
LoBaron


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From my experience the main difference is:

The AFB still klings to at least the illusion of a RL, while the JFB checks on his factories in the meantime.

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Post #: 17
RE: JFB vs. AFB personalities - 12/2/2011 6:56:43 AM   
vettim89


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I prefer cartoon characters:

JFB = The Brain (What are we going to do tonight, Brain? The same thing we do every night, Pinkie: TRY TO TAKE OVER THE WORLD!)

AFB= Marvin the Martian (I will use my Elludium 232 Space Mudulator to blow up Japan. Its blocking my view of Korea)

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Post #: 18
RE: JFB vs. AFB personalities - 12/2/2011 7:13:10 AM   
LargeSlowTarget


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quote:

ORIGINAL: mike scholl 1


quote:

ORIGINAL: Nikademus

players quit on both sides for a number of reasons. The most common one is a major setback. I've known Allied players to quit if they suffer early loss of their carrier force. Its a long game. People hate to lose in general. Its why good opponents are hard to find. I used to be more partisan about it but i'm softer in my stand now given that it, like BTR is such a huge game that can take years off a person's life.



That's sort of what I never understood Nik. If you are playing the Japanese, you ARE going to suffer a bunch of major setbacks. Sooner or later, they WILL happen. It's the nature of the beast. I always figured that the true JFB's were the ones who reveled in those "last ditch" situations..., determined to drive his opponant to distraction until the roof collapsed around him. I was lucky enough to find one..., and while I "won" our first game in the end we both enjoyed the struggle so much that we're close to half-way through a second Campaign Game.


Exactly. If you start an PBEM and playing as Japanese, you should be aware that you cannot win the war. As Japanese player, you will have an easy time for the first 6-8 months and then an interesting struggle before being outproduced. So quitting when things turn sour for the Empire is bad style. Major setbacks are to be expected, period.
I'm in a WitP PBEM which has started in 2006. My opponent did start early counter-offensives in 1942 which have cost him his entire pre-war carrier fleet except one CV, much of the pre-war surface fleet, plus two modern USN BBs, couple of CVEs and a bunch of RN carriers and half a dozen USA Divisions destroyed. He did not quit!
Of course he came back with a vengeance. Accidential activation of the Russians in Spring 43 did not help the Empire's cause. By autumn 44 my opponent has re-captured most of the SRA and Pacific Ocean Area, including Singapore, Saigon, Manila, Hong Kong, he has landed on the Kuriles, Okinawa and Formosa, his B-29s are laying waste to my industries (already shut-down for the most part due to lack of supplies) and I have only a handful of warships left. But I will not quit either - now it's my opponent's turn to have some fun. But I spit in his soup now and then, trying to pin-**** him. For example, outguessing the next bombing target and ambushing his B-29s with unexpected concentrations of my remaining fighter strength (over a hundred B-29s shot down one day- after that the sky was empty over Japan for a couple of weeks) or unexpected bombardment sorties by the remnants of Combined Fleet (Okinawa is close enough for-hit-and-run under LBA cover - bagged a couple of DDs and transports that way). Sure, not more than nuisance for my opponent, but fun if it works.

< Message edited by LargeSlowTarget -- 12/2/2011 9:39:42 AM >


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RE: JFB vs. AFB personalities - 12/2/2011 7:13:15 AM   
obvert


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Having been around this forum for almost two years, I'm still a bit perplexed why there IS such a divide between the JFB and the AFB.

I understand rivalries are just part of human nature. Having spent 6 years in Chapel Hill I grew to understand that for those raised in the area there was no POSSIBILITY they would EVER even acknowledge the quality of the other team, (the Heels and the Blue Devils). While I and the other 'expatriates' living there picked one to get behind but could easily appreciate the quality on the other side and even grudgingly root them on if our team was out of the tournament.

That said, I will NEVER root for the Yankees.

This is a different kind of game. Having grown up playing chess I got very used to playing both sides. It's very similar in chess, just a lot quicker. But as black against a good player, you will lose most of the time. Not quite as often as playing Japan, but the mentality is similar. I always liked that challenge, and I understood that if you can't play the black side, you can't really understand the game at the deepest level.

I like my current games as Japan because I think I will learn more about the game more quickly. But as I've posted several times, I'm really itching to play the Allied side for several reasons, including the greater attachment to the men and machines on that side that started in childhood.

Why is it that the forum here is so divided between playing one side or the other? Many of the most knowledgable players on the forum have played both sides with success. If you want to really understand the game, it just makes sense.

(in reply to LoBaron)
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RE: JFB vs. AFB personalities - 12/2/2011 9:23:18 AM   
cantona2


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Im not lawyer but I am an unashamed AFb

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RE: JFB vs. AFB personalities - 12/2/2011 9:32:13 AM   
Canoerebel


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I am a lawyer but I'm not an AFB even though I've only played the Allied side. I'm just glad there's players who enjoy playing each side.

As for why I only play the Allied side, there are two fundamental reasons: (1) Most importantly, patience is something I can excercise, while a "ticking clock" - time turning against me, so that I have to keep to a tight schedule - would drive me nuts; and (2) The micromanagement of production isn't something I would enjoy.


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RE: JFB vs. AFB personalities - 12/2/2011 9:53:13 AM   
obvert


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

I am a lawyer but I'm not an AFB even though I've only played the Allied side. I'm just glad there's players who enjoy playing each side.

As for why I only play the Allied side, there are two fundamental reasons: (1) Most importantly, patience is something I can excercise, while a "ticking clock" - time turning against me, so that I have to keep to a tight schedule - would drive me nuts; and (2) The micromanagement of production isn't something I would enjoy.




And either an early riser or an extreme night owl. Isn't it about 4:51AM where you live?

The economy is actually quite fun, and not as micro if you play Scen 2. The time issue is a real one. I feel it every turn right now. Ground must be gained. But that challenge is very interesting, and might be similar to a '44 Allied mentality in a Scen 2 game, even.

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RE: JFB vs. AFB personalities - 12/2/2011 11:57:42 AM   
ny59giants_MatrixForum


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I've played both sides and if I had to choose, I would probably fall into the AFB side. I think Tracker was the only reason I got into playing Japan (plus the call to rescue John 3rd economy back in his epic struggle vs Canoerebel with Damian's help ). I think any new game as Japan, which will be years away, will have me doing more to push the envelope further out. India and China have both almost been conquered, but I'm waiting for the AAR that shows how to conquer all of Australia. I have my own theory that I would want to try (using Scenario 2 of course ).



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RE: JFB vs. AFB personalities - 12/2/2011 12:03:22 PM   
PaxMondo


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I'm a JFB only because I love the economy side.  If the allied side had an economy, I would play it as well.

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RE: JFB vs. AFB personalities - 12/2/2011 12:04:05 PM   
Erkki


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RE: JFB vs. AFB personalities - 12/2/2011 12:19:42 PM   
HansBolter


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quote:

ORIGINAL: rader

JFB personalities:

Sand castle builder. Likes to carve empires out of other people's posessions for the greater benefit of all [Japanese people]. Attracts engineers, architects, artists, and megalomaniacs.

AFB personalities:

Sand castle knocker-downer. Likes to tear appart empires to restore the status quo [to the Western Imperialists]. Attracts lawyers, demolision artists, repo men, and litterary critics.

(Just so people don't take offense, I'm not being serious )




I am an avowed AFB. Which interestingly enough stands for Allied Fan Boy on this forum and Axis Fan Boy on the Command Ops Battles from the Bulge forum (see my avatar and if curious the stickied AAR I wrote during beta testing).

I'm here to tell you that no architect in his right mind could ever be a JFB.

Architects build on SOLID foundations.

We don't design houses of cards!.

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RE: JFB vs. AFB personalities - 12/2/2011 4:00:19 PM   
Chickenboy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: obvert
Why is it that the forum here is so divided between playing one side or the other? Many of the most knowledgable players on the forum have played both sides with success. If you want to really understand the game, it just makes sense.


Hiya obvert,

I'm not really sure that the division is as insurmountable as you suggest. The reason I have only played as the Japanese is because-after an abortive attempt playing as Allies against the AI-I only play PBEM. If you're going to only play PBEM, you will have comparatively few games under your belt, assuming that you have opponents that are well-selected and go deep into games with you. For myself, I can't imagine having completed more than 3 GCs before 2013 (seriously!). Thus, it's not an aversion to one side for the other, so much as a selective limitation in the number of iterations of the PBEM game experienced.

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RE: JFB vs. AFB personalities - 12/2/2011 4:41:22 PM   
Shark7


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JFB = someone who enjoys a serious challenge

AFB = someone who wants to go into the game knowing they will win no matter what

I've played both sides and prefer Japan. Allies just seems like easy mode to me.

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RE: JFB vs. AFB personalities - 12/2/2011 4:44:25 PM   
Cribtop


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I noticed this divide even among middle school friends of mine playing Avalon Hill board games. The same guys tended to play the outnumbered aggressor nation (Napoleonic France, the Axis, the USSR, etc), while another group always tended to play the "winning" side (Great Britain, the Allies, etc). The hard thing was finding someone to play the Yankees in Civil War games. We had to offer free soda, food, etc. Finally I just used force to make my little brother do it.

I think the "underdog" players mostly like the challenge and imagine that as Napoleon they could have pulled it off.

< Message edited by Cribtop -- 12/2/2011 4:45:25 PM >


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