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RE: Wild Sheep Chase

 
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RE: Wild Sheep Chase - 8/15/2013 4:01:40 PM   
paullus99


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Yes, the LR-CAP is definitely the issue here. If you have the planes, you have the planes - but given the circumstances as discussed elsewhere, it sounds like you're basically getting a free ride to get as many troops out (or in) without paying the penalty in airframes that you should.

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(in reply to witpqs)
Post #: 2011
RE: Wild Sheep Chase - 8/15/2013 4:34:32 PM   
obvert


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From: PDX (and now) London, UK
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quote:

ORIGINAL: paullus99

Yes, the LR-CAP is definitely the issue here. If you have the planes, you have the planes - but given the circumstances as discussed elsewhere, it sounds like you're basically getting a free ride to get as many troops out (or in) without paying the penalty in airframes that you should.


I agree completely. Had this been working differently of course I would have not been flying those transports after one or two bad days. It would then become a hit or miss op based solely upon whether Jocke was conducting other missions for a period and whether I too could LR CAP the hex to protect the transports, which could have happened from a number of nearby fields.

Overall the LR CAP is the major issue. I don't sense that is the core of his frustration though. He seems intent on a rapid pace and has bypassed multiple big bases without neutralizing them. Most of these have been used to contest his long LOC to the PI over the past six months, including a recent hit on a tanker TF with 20 Jakes that I haven't written up yet and the destruction of a troop convoy at Milne Bay (!) by Graces from Rabaul several days ago.

Anything that slows this pace and his destruction of Japanese troops seems to make him really concerned, while of course my entire intent is to slow his progress as much as possible. I tend to think he's in a great position and has worked hard to get in range of the oil and very soon the HI (yikes!).

_____________________________

"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm." - Winston Churchill

(in reply to paullus99)
Post #: 2012
RE: Wild Sheep Chase - 8/15/2013 5:01:30 PM   
fcharton

 

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From: France
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quote:

ORIGINAL: obvert
If we account for the extra killed in air raids not listed in the AAR and round to 20k over 38 days that would be 526 a day. If there are 12 men in a squad then that would be 43.8 squads a day. Not really that many over such a long period, actually.

Obviously I wasn't using 250+ transports for this entire time. That only started when everything got to Davao.


Ok, suppose you had 150 transports on average, for 40 days, that's 150*40=6000 transport.days, I don't know how many squads fit on a transport during one day (one rotation? two rotations? I'd say two...), but suppose three which is probably a low estimate. Over the period, your 6000 transports.day could have transported 18000 squads, but they actually transported 1666... (20 000/12)

Which sort of means only one transport in eleven managed to bring some troops home, or that planes only flew once every eleven days, or that just 9% of your squadrons actually flew, or any combination of those...

It might be worth testing this without CAP, to see the capacity of such an air bridge in the absence of enemy action. But I'm still under the impression that enemy CAP was quite successful interdicting the hex.

In other words, five weeks is a long period of time, and 150 planes a lot of transports.

Francois



< Message edited by fcharton -- 8/15/2013 5:09:14 PM >

(in reply to obvert)
Post #: 2013
RE: Wild Sheep Chase - 8/15/2013 5:36:52 PM   
obvert


Posts: 14050
Joined: 1/17/2011
From: PDX (and now) London, UK
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quote:

ORIGINAL: fcharton

quote:

ORIGINAL: obvert
If we account for the extra killed in air raids not listed in the AAR and round to 20k over 38 days that would be 526 a day. If there are 12 men in a squad then that would be 43.8 squads a day. Not really that many over such a long period, actually.

Obviously I wasn't using 250+ transports for this entire time. That only started when everything got to Davao.


Ok, suppose you had 150 transports on average, for 40 days, that's 150*40=6000 transport.days, I don't know how many squads fit on a transport during one day (one rotation? two rotations? I'd say two...), but suppose three which is probably a low estimate. Over the period, your 6000 transports.day could have transported 18000 squads, but they actually transported 1666... (20 000/12)

Which sort of means only one transport in eleven managed to bring some troops home, or that planes only flew once every eleven days, or that just 9% of your squadrons actually flew, or any combination of those...

It might be worth testing this without CAP, to see the capacity of such an air bridge in the absence of enemy action. But I'm still under the impression that enemy CAP was quite successful interdicting the hex.

In other words, five weeks is a long period of time, and 150 planes a lot of transports.

Francois




Interesting thoughts again. I do think it's easy to miss the amount that can be accumulated by consistent daily action of this kind. i was surprised looking back how many troops the 4Es had wiped out just in the last month.

I'd again have to look back to really know how many were flying at each point. I would guess I had about 50-60 Helens with maybe 25 Tabbys during the first three weeks or so, and they were flying more sporadically, dependent on enemy action and field status.

The probably the big ramp up over a week to using the total numbers listed above, the 225 or so regular transports with another 35 flying boats.




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Post #: 2014
RE: Wild Sheep Chase - 8/15/2013 5:53:08 PM   
fcharton

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: obvert
Interesting thoughts again. I do think it's easy to miss the amount that can be accumulated by consistent daily action of this kind. i was surprised looking back how many troops the 4Es had wiped out just in the last month.


That's my impression as well. As we play the game turn by turn, we tend not to notice long term effects. As for troop transport, my experience is that whereas it is very difficult to transport a significant amount of troops under short notice, it works wonders (except for the heavy equipment) if you have enough time.

quote:

ORIGINAL: obvert
I'd again have to look back to really know how many were flying at each point. I would guess I had about 50-60 Helens with maybe 25 Tabbys during the first three weeks or so, and they were flying more sporadically, dependent on enemy action and field status.

The probably the big ramp up over a week to using the total numbers listed above, the 225 or so regular transports with another 35 flying boats.


Yeah, so you'd have 3 weeks with 80 planes, against little opposition (?), one week with 170 ((260+80)/2), and one with 260, that's an average of 134, and the above calculation holds...

Francois

(in reply to obvert)
Post #: 2015
RE: Wild Sheep Chase - 8/15/2013 6:57:22 PM   
obvert


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quote:

ORIGINAL: fcharton

quote:

ORIGINAL: obvert
Interesting thoughts again. I do think it's easy to miss the amount that can be accumulated by consistent daily action of this kind. i was surprised looking back how many troops the 4Es had wiped out just in the last month.


That's my impression as well. As we play the game turn by turn, we tend not to notice long term effects. As for troop transport, my experience is that whereas it is very difficult to transport a significant amount of troops under short notice, it works wonders (except for the heavy equipment) if you have enough time.


Maybe one day the many chances I've had to take out numerous Allied transports will eventually add up to a small problem for them! (Probably not!)

quote:

quote:

ORIGINAL: obvert
I'd again have to look back to really know how many were flying at each point. I would guess I had about 50-60 Helens with maybe 25 Tabbys during the first three weeks or so, and they were flying more sporadically, dependent on enemy action and field status.

The probably the big ramp up over a week to using the total numbers listed above, the 225 or so regular transports with another 35 flying boats.


Yeah, so you'd have 3 weeks with 80 planes, against little opposition (?), one week with 170 ((260+80)/2), and one with 260, that's an average of 134, and the above calculation holds...

Francois


The trouble is I don't know how often Jocke thought he was LR CAPing the bases and when he wasn't because we've shown through tests that it's not working as most players probably think and hope it is, in fact it doesn't seem to work at all against transports specifically.

So yes, very little opposition and they'd fly when the fields were not closed.

< Message edited by obvert -- 8/15/2013 6:58:15 PM >


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Post #: 2016
RE: Wild Sheep Chase - 8/15/2013 7:17:05 PM   
Historiker


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You've shot down 22 of my transport planes with LR-Cap in one single turn when I dropped paras on Magwe. Maybe dropping paras is different, but shooting down transports obviously works!

I intended to recommend him changeing the altitude of his CAP but didn't do so. Then, I read that you said you send yours in at 1000 feet, so I can't give him that advice any more. Lucky you

< Message edited by Historiker -- 8/15/2013 7:21:39 PM >


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Post #: 2017
RE: Wild Sheep Chase - 8/15/2013 9:21:13 PM   
obvert


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Historiker

You've shot down 22 of my transport planes with LR-Cap in one single turn when I dropped paras on Magwe. Maybe dropping paras is different, but shooting down transports obviously works!

I intended to recommend him changeing the altitude of his CAP but didn't do so. Then, I read that you said you send yours in at 1000 feet, so I can't give him that advice any more. Lucky you


Ha! It's okay. I let him know now. It's all in th open at this point. Even sent a screenshot of Davao on the 4th to show his recon was off by about +20k!

Yeah, I think in the tech thread someone else confirmed it works in the official. I had forgotten about those at Magwe. Thanks Torsten!

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Post #: 2018
RE: Wild Sheep Chase - 8/16/2013 10:54:33 AM   
obvert


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7 October 1944: MARIANAS
___________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

SUBS: A few subs interacted with the main fleet CV TFs but none could get through the escorts for a shot. One did however make it to the CVEs and took out CVE Anzio with two TT! A little bit at a time! We lost two subs sunk and two damaged during the day. Well worth it.

CENTRAL PACFIC: This was an interesting set of actions. I sent in several small SAGs again, very quick. The Es are all 32 knot and the Sakawa TF is 33 knot. The Allies sent two TFs of 6 Fletchers each to the Guam area to hit MTBs and MLs there, or possibly they reacted there early in the phase. This took them away from Jocke's CVEs and our three E got in to do some damage. It's not likely any of these will sink but it was still a pretty sight and might keep some out for a while. They're also still vulnerable to sub in this area if they're damaged and even slower than usual.

The Bougainville and Takanis Bay were burning black smoke, which is not a good sign of course, and the Bougainville also collided with a DE during the melee. After the turn 35 Hellcats appeared on the sunk list. All of these could have been on the Anzio, and that's probably the case.

More of the same tomorrow. All of the SAGs make it back to Pagan to refuel. I've not got much CAP left after massive Corsair and Jug sweeps at Pagan, but the possible gains are worth the potential losses here, and there aren't many planes at Tinian to strike yet. If he keeps the CVs in the area that is just more days to have them in range of the subs.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR October 7, 44
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Night Time Surface Combat, near Saipan at 108,93, Range 8,000 Yards

Japanese Ships
MTB G-540, Shell hits 1, and is sunk
MTB G-872, Shell hits 2, and is sunk


Allied Ships
DD Frankford
DD Patterson
DD Preston
DD Reid
DD Monssen II
DD De Haven II

Improved night sighting under 71% moonlight
Maximum visibility in Partly Cloudy Conditions and 71% moonlight: 11,000 yards

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Night Time Surface Combat, near Guam at 106,95, Range 8,000 Yards

Japanese Ships
ML G-206, Shell hits 1, and is sunk


Allied Ships
DD Bearss
DD Howorth
DD Monssen
DD Aaron Ward
DD Farenholt
DD Gansevoort

Improved night sighting under 71% moonlight
Maximum visibility in Partly Cloudy Conditions and 71% moonlight: 11,000 yards

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Night Time Surface Combat, near Saipan at 108,93, Range 8,000 Yards

Japanese Ships
CL Sakawa
DD Matsukaze
DD Oite, Shell hits 1

Allied Ships
DD Frankford
DD Patterson
DD Preston, Shell hits 1
DD Reid
DD Monssen II
DD De Haven II

Improved night sighting under 71% moonlight
Maximum visibility in Partly Cloudy Conditions and 71% moonlight: 11,000 yards
DD Frankford launches Torpedoes at DD Matsukaze at 8,000 yards
Range closes to 3,000 yards
CL Sakawa engages DD Reid at 3,000 yards
DD Frankford engages DD Oite at 13,000 yards
Task forces break off...

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Night Time Surface Combat, near Guam at 106,95, Range 8,000 Yards

Japanese Ships
MTB G-354, Shell hits 1, and is sunk

Allied Ships
DD Bearss
DD Howorth
DD Monssen
DD Aaron Ward
DD Farenholt
DD Gansevoort

Improved night sighting under 71% moonlight
Maximum visibility in Partly Cloudy Conditions and 71% moonlight: 11,000 yards

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
ASW attack near Saipan at 113,96

Japanese Ships
SS I-58, hits 29, heavy damage

Allied Ships
PF Brownsville
PF Pasco
PF Casper

SS I-58 is located by PF Brownsville

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Night Time Surface Combat, near Guam at 106,95, Range 6,000 Yards

Japanese Ships
MTB G-886, Shell hits 1, and is sunk

Allied Ships
DD Bearss
DD Howorth
DD Monssen
DD Aaron Ward
DD Farenholt
DD Gansevoort

Maximum visibility in Partly Cloudy Conditions and 60% moonlight: 10,000 yards
Range closes to 24,000 yards...

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sub attack near Saipan at 113,96

Japanese Ships
SS I-171, hits 21, on fire, heavy damage

Allied Ships
CVE Anzio, Torpedo hits 2, heavy fires, heavy damage
DE Griswold
DE Tisdale
DE Steele, Shell hits 1
DE Stadtfeld

Fuel storage explosion on CVE Anzio
SS I-171 launches 4 torpedoes at CVE Anzio
DE Tisdale attacking submerged sub ....
SS I-171 forced to surface!

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Time Surface Combat, near Tinian at 108,94, Range 18,000 Yards

Japanese Ships
E Hasu
E Susuki
E Hiyodori, Shell hits 3

Allied Ships
CVE Windham Bay, Shell hits 3
CVE Bougainville, Shell hits 5, on fire
CVE Matanikau, Shell hits 1
CVE Munda, Shell hits 1
CVE Roi, Shell hits 2, on fire
CVE Attu
CVE Takanis Bay, Shell hits 9, on fire
DE Paul G. Baker, Shell hits 1, on fire
DE Jaccard
DE O'Flaherty
DE Raymond
DE Cauvery
DE Kistna

Maximum visibility in Partly Cloudy Conditions: 22,000 yards
Range closes to 24,000 yards...
CONTACT: Japanese lookouts spot Allied task force at 22,000 yards
CONTACT: Allied lookouts spot Japanese task force at 22,000 yards
Range closes to 18,000 yards...
CVE Takanis Bay , CVE Attu screened from combat
- escorted by DE Kistna , DE Cauvery , DE Raymond ,
DE O'Flaherty , DE Jaccard , DE Paul G. Baker
E Hiyodori engages CVE Munda at 18,000 yards
E Hiyodori engages CVE Windham Bay at 18,000 yards
Range closes to 17,000 yards
E Hiyodori engages CVE Takanis Bay at 17,000 yards
Range closes to 13,000 yards
E Hiyodori engages CVE Roi at 11,000 yards
Range closes to 9,000 yards
Range increases to 13,000 yards
Range closes to 6,000 yards
E Hiyodori engages CVE Bougainville at 6,000 yards
Range increases to 9,000 yards
CVE Takanis Bay screened from combat
- escorted by DE Kistna , DE Cauvery , DE Raymond ,
DE O'Flaherty , DE Jaccard , DE Paul G. Baker
E Hiyodori engages CVE Attu at 9,000 yards
Range increases to 12,000 yards
DE Cauvery collides with CVE Bougainville at 108 , 94
Range increases to 15,000 yards
Range closes to 14,000 yards
E Hiyodori engages CVE Takanis Bay at 14,000 yards
Range closes to 10,000 yards
E Susuki engages CVE Bougainville at 10,000 yards
Range increases to 14,000 yards
E Hasu engages CVE Takanis Bay at 14,000 yards
Range increases to 19,000 yards
Range increases to 24,000 yards
Task forces break off...

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on Pagan , at 110,89

Weather in hex: Moderate rain

Raid detected at 28 NM, estimated altitude 36,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 10 minutes

Japanese aircraft
J2M3 Jack x 14
Ki-43-IIIa Oscar x 32
Ki-84a Frank x 43
Ki-102b Randy x 16

Allied aircraft
F4U-1A Corsair x 41

Japanese aircraft losses
J2M3 Jack: 4 destroyed
Ki-43-IIIa Oscar: 4 destroyed
Ki-84a Frank: 2 destroyed
Ki-102b Randy: 1 destroyed


Allied aircraft losses
F4U-1A Corsair: 1 destroyed

Aircraft Attacking:
29 x F4U-1A Corsair sweeping at 31000 feet

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on Pagan , at 110,89

Weather in hex: Moderate rain

Raid detected at 27 NM, estimated altitude 45,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 8 minutes

Japanese aircraft
J2M3 Jack x 2
Ki-43-IIIa Oscar x 17
Ki-84a Frank x 28
Ki-102b Randy x 11

Allied aircraft
P-47D25 Thunderbolt x 20

Japanese aircraft losses
J2M3 Jack: 1 destroyed
Ki-43-IIIa Oscar: 3 destroyed
Ki-84a Frank: 3 destroyed
Ki-102b Randy: 2 destroyed


Allied aircraft losses
P-47D25 Thunderbolt: 1 destroyed

Aircraft Attacking:
2 x P-47D25 Thunderbolt sweeping at 42000 feet

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Afternoon Air attack on TF, near Pagan at 110,89

Weather in hex: Light cloud

Raid detected at 33 NM, estimated altitude 3,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 14 minutes

Japanese aircraft
J2M3 Jack x 1
Ki-43-IIIa Oscar x 4
Ki-84a Frank x 6
Ki-102b Randy x 2

Allied aircraft
TBM-1C Avenger x 6

No Japanese losses

Allied aircraft losses
TBM-1C Avenger: 3 destroyed
TBM-1C Avenger: 1 destroyed by flak

Japanese Ships
CL Sakawa

Aircraft Attacking:
3 x TBM-1C Avenger launching torpedoes at 200 feet
Naval Attack: 1 x 22in Mk 13 Torpedo

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ground combat at Saipan (108,93)

Allied Bombardment attack

Attacking force 1170 troops, 96 guns, 78 vehicles, Assault Value = 1610

Defending force 31292 troops, 401 guns, 358 vehicles, Assault Value = 632

Japanese ground losses:
59 casualties reported
Squads: 1 destroyed, 5 disabled

Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


___________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________


___________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

These small torpedo boats have been really useful lately. I'll have to scour the navy and see if there are more doing escort somewhere that can be brought in anywhere where there are close quarters and lots of ships operating. I'm surprised the Fletchers didn't find them, but I guess the speed helps and maybe the size also inhibits detection.
___________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________


Attachment (1)

_____________________________

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(in reply to obvert)
Post #: 2019
RE: Wild Sheep Chase - 8/16/2013 11:11:23 AM   
obvert


Posts: 14050
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7 October, 1944: PALEMBANG
___________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

STRAT BOMBING: I decided to do a separate post for this one attack as I've finally found some combinations that can protect the oil a bit better. I am also including the entire report as it's pretty interesting how few hits they got this night, although there were severe storms as well.

I placed many Irving NF groups here totaling about 80 planes, and also inserted a bit more flak. The forts got to level 9 (does this help against a Manpower attack?).

The first wave of B-29s, the big one that usually takes out my fighters and leaves the rest free to operate, wasn't as successful against this mob. I also flew one group at 8k, below the attack level of the bombing, as they do have upward facing guns and maybe this can help? Still not sure what did the job here but on the day he seems to have lost almost 20 B-29s!!!

This came at a price of 21 Irvings, so I bumped production up another 10 airframes a month. I also have the Dinah III KAI coming on line now and a group arriving in two weeks to fly them. So another 45 planes once it fills out. These should be my best NF for a while, fast and durable and decent armament.

This attack by about 93 B-29s produced only just over 10k fires and will likely only take less than 10 points off of the oil. Even bumping up to 40 planes a month he can't really live with these losses I'm sure. I'm short on NF now too, but at least I know what can work, and the new Irving model will have radar as well, building now.

So strategically I'll defend Palembang with everything I have for now and leave Soerabaja, Balikpapan and Djambi a bit short with only one NF group each. Miri and Medan have been shattered to the point it doesn't matter much now to leave a NF group there, with only 34 points each. Miri is getting vulnerable to surface naval and air strikes as well. As long as I can keep the sea lanes open along Indochina and keep Palembang in decent shape until 45 I think I'll have stores to last into my goal of spring 45 producing HI at full tilt.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR October 7, 44
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Night Air attack on Palembang , at 48,91

Weather in hex: Severe storms

Raid detected at 78 NM, estimated altitude 13,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 24 minutes

Japanese aircraft
J1N1-S Irving x 61

Allied aircraft
B-29-1 Superfort x 32

Japanese aircraft losses
J1N1-S Irving: 1 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
B-29-1 Superfort: 6 damaged

Manpower hits 2
Fires 990

Aircraft Attacking:
6 x B-29-1 Superfort bombing from 9000 feet *
City Attack: 10 x 500 lb GP Bomb

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Night Air attack on Palembang , at 48,91

Weather in hex: Severe storms

Raid detected at 80 NM, estimated altitude 10,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 25 minutes

Japanese aircraft
J1N1-S Irving x 53

Allied aircraft
B-29-1 Superfort x 6

Japanese aircraft losses
J1N1-S Irving: 6 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
B-29-1 Superfort: 1 destroyed, 5 damaged

Aircraft Attacking:
5 x B-29-1 Superfort bombing from 9000 feet *
City Attack: 10 x 500 lb GP Bomb

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Night Air attack on Palembang , at 48,91

Weather in hex: Severe storms

Raid detected at 34 NM, estimated altitude 12,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 10 minutes

Japanese aircraft
J1N1-S Irving x 27

Allied aircraft
B-29-1 Superfort x 5

Japanese aircraft losses
J1N1-S Irving: 1 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
B-29-1 Superfort: 3 damaged
B-29-1 Superfort: 1 destroyed by flak

Aircraft Attacking:
5 x B-29-1 Superfort bombing from 9000 feet *
City Attack: 10 x 500 lb GP Bomb

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Night Air attack on Palembang , at 48,91

Weather in hex: Severe storms

Raid detected at 44 NM, estimated altitude 10,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 13 minutes

Japanese aircraft
J1N1-S Irving x 14

Allied aircraft
B-29-1 Superfort x 8

Japanese aircraft losses
J1N1-S Irving: 1 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
B-29-1 Superfort: 3 damaged

Aircraft Attacking:
8 x B-29-1 Superfort bombing from 9000 feet *
City Attack: 10 x 500 lb GP Bomb

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Night Air attack on Palembang , at 48,91

Weather in hex: Severe storms

Raid detected at 37 NM, estimated altitude 13,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 11 minutes

Japanese aircraft
J1N1-S Irving x 8

Allied aircraft
B-29-1 Superfort x 5

No Japanese losses

Allied aircraft losses
B-29-1 Superfort: 2 damaged

Aircraft Attacking:
5 x B-29-1 Superfort bombing from 9000 feet *
City Attack: 10 x 500 lb GP Bomb

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Night Air attack on Palembang , at 48,91

Weather in hex: Severe storms

Raid detected at 12 NM, estimated altitude 15,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 3 minutes

Japanese aircraft
J1N1-S Irving x 2

Allied aircraft
B-29-1 Superfort x 3

No Japanese losses

No Allied losses

Aircraft Attacking:
3 x B-29-1 Superfort bombing from 9000 feet *
City Attack: 10 x 500 lb GP Bomb

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Night Air attack on Palembang , at 48,91

Weather in hex: Severe storms

Raid detected at 18 NM, estimated altitude 13,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 5 minutes

Japanese aircraft
J1N1-S Irving x 2

Allied aircraft
B-29-1 Superfort x 3

No Japanese losses

No Allied losses

Manpower hits 1
Fires 1950

Aircraft Attacking:
3 x B-29-1 Superfort bombing from 9000 feet *
City Attack: 10 x 500 lb GP Bomb

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Night Air attack on Palembang , at 48,91

Weather in hex: Severe storms

Raid detected at 35 NM, estimated altitude 14,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 10 minutes

Japanese aircraft
J1N1-S Irving x 2

Allied aircraft
B-29-1 Superfort x 4

No Japanese losses

No Allied losses

Manpower hits 2
Fires 3250

Aircraft Attacking:
4 x B-29-1 Superfort bombing from 9000 feet *
City Attack: 10 x 500 lb GP Bomb

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Night Air attack on Palembang , at 48,91

Weather in hex: Severe storms

Raid detected at 47 NM, estimated altitude 11,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 14 minutes

Japanese aircraft
J1N1-S Irving x 2

Allied aircraft
B-29-1 Superfort x 7

No Japanese losses

Allied aircraft losses
B-29-1 Superfort: 1 damaged

Manpower hits 11
Fires 10150


Aircraft Attacking:
7 x B-29-1 Superfort bombing from 9000 feet *
City Attack: 10 x 500 lb GP Bomb

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Night Air attack on Palembang , at 48,91

Weather in hex: Severe storms

Raid detected at 37 NM, estimated altitude 11,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 11 minutes

Japanese aircraft
J1N1-S Irving x 5

Allied aircraft
B-29-1 Superfort x 6

Japanese aircraft losses
J1N1-S Irving: 1 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
B-29-1 Superfort: 1 damaged
B-29-1 Superfort: 1 destroyed by flak

Aircraft Attacking:
6 x B-29-1 Superfort bombing from 9000 feet *
City Attack: 10 x 500 lb GP Bomb

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Night Air attack on Palembang , at 48,91

Weather in hex: Severe storms

Raid detected at 17 NM, estimated altitude 12,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 5 minutes

Allied aircraft
B-29-1 Superfort x 4

Allied aircraft losses
B-29-1 Superfort: 1 damaged

Manpower hits 1
Fires 10875

Aircraft Attacking:
4 x B-29-1 Superfort bombing from 9000 feet *
City Attack: 10 x 500 lb GP Bomb

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Night Air attack on Palembang , at 48,91

Weather in hex: Severe storms

Raid detected at 41 NM, estimated altitude 11,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 12 minutes

Allied aircraft
B-29-1 Superfort x 4

Allied aircraft losses
B-29-1 Superfort: 1 damaged

Aircraft Attacking:
4 x B-29-1 Superfort bombing from 9000 feet *
City Attack: 10 x 500 lb GP Bomb

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Night Air attack on Palembang , at 48,91

Weather in hex: Severe storms

Raid detected at 39 NM, estimated altitude 11,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 12 minutes

Allied aircraft
B-29-1 Superfort x 5

No Allied losses

Aircraft Attacking:
5 x B-29-1 Superfort bombing from 9000 feet *
City Attack: 10 x 500 lb GP Bomb
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


___________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________


___________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

Hopefully the Dinah II KAI will be a tiger!
___________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________



Attachment (1)

< Message edited by obvert -- 8/16/2013 11:14:14 AM >


_____________________________

"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm." - Winston Churchill

(in reply to obvert)
Post #: 2020
RE: Wild Sheep Chase - 8/16/2013 11:33:55 AM   
obvert


Posts: 14050
Joined: 1/17/2011
From: PDX (and now) London, UK
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7 October, 1944: BURMA and Elsewhere
___________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

SUBS: Took out another US sub in the South China Sea.

S/SW PAC: I see a tanker TF moving up along the New Guinea coastline from my search planes in Rabaul I'll move a 20 plane Jake group to Hollandia, which amazingly is continuing to be operational with 4.5k supply, flak and some air support. If these are not CAPed the Jakes can do some business here as all are low nav trained to 70 and will fly at 1k.

S DEI: The AMs should arrive at Lomblen tomorrow. My ships have not dared move since the night dropped mines here. Hopefully these ships can do the job. Mines appeared at Dili as well, but I have no plans to go there with subs or ships, so these can add to the already stiff mine defenses for the base.

PI: Still no rowboat kami activation. Fingers crossed. Davao fields are closed. now we wait to see whether LR CAP will be solved by michaelm.

BURMA: Tavoy becomes a growing disaster for our side. Today massed LR CAP takes out every decent strike over the invasion fleets, and on the day the air score is 74:244! Not great. Again LBA can't do the job.

After this the base falls in a landslide.

Bangkok will go into complete defensive mode and simply aim to defend troops in the area. All forces for about 2k AV are moving to Bangkok and should arrive within the week. Small bases in Malaya are getting garrisons for the first time as Chindits and other paras could be a problem here.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR October 7, 44
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Morning Air attack on TF, near Tavoy at 54,60

Weather in hex: Overcast

Raid detected at 33 NM, estimated altitude 6,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 9 minutes

Japanese aircraft
J2M3 Jack x 20
N1K2-J George x 9
P1Y2 Frances x 13

Allied aircraft
Spitfire VIII x 23
Thunderbolt I x 22
F4U-1D Corsair x 12
P-47D2 Thunderbolt x 14
P-47D25 Thunderbolt x 24
P-51B Mustang x 40
F4U-1 Corsair x 12
F4U-1D Corsair x 14 !!!!!!!!

Japanese aircraft losses
J2M3 Jack: 8 destroyed
N1K2-J George: 6 destroyed
P1Y2 Frances: 9 destroyed


No Allied losses

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on TF, near Tavoy at 54,60

Weather in hex: Overcast

Raid detected at 40 NM, estimated altitude 15,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 11 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M5c Zero x 36
B7A2 Grace x 21
J2M3 Jack x 27

Allied aircraft
Spitfire VIII x 23
Thunderbolt I x 22
F4U-1D Corsair x 12
P-47D2 Thunderbolt x 12
P-47D25 Thunderbolt x 24
P-51B Mustang x 38
F4U-1 Corsair x 12
F4U-1D Corsair x 14

Japanese aircraft losses
A6M5c Zero: 5 destroyed
B7A2 Grace: 14 destroyed
J2M3 Jack: 3 destroyed


Allied aircraft losses
P-51B Mustang: 1 destroyed

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on Davao , at 79,91

Weather in hex: Thunderstorms

Raid spotted at 40 NM, estimated altitude 17,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 13 minutes

Allied aircraft
B-24J Liberator x 46

Allied aircraft losses
B-24J Liberator: 1 damaged
B-24J Liberator: 1 destroyed by flak

Airbase hits 5
Runway hits 5

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Afternoon Air attack on TF, near Tavoy at 54,60

Weather in hex: Partial cloud

Raid detected at 75 NM, estimated altitude 7,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 22 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M5c Zero x 24
B6N2a Jill x 23
J2M3 Jack x 60
N1K2-J George x 4
P1Y2 Frances x 13

Allied aircraft
Spitfire VIII x 22
Thunderbolt I x 21
F4U-1D Corsair x 12
P-47D2 Thunderbolt x 13
P-47D25 Thunderbolt x 24
P-51B Mustang x 38
F4U-1 Corsair x 11
F4U-1D Corsair x 14

Japanese aircraft losses
A6M5c Zero: 9 destroyed
B6N2a Jill: 13 destroyed, 4 damaged
J2M3 Jack: 14 destroyed
N1K2-J George: 2 destroyed
P1Y2 Frances: 4 destroyed, 5 damaged


Allied aircraft losses
Spitfire VIII: 1 destroyed
P-47D2 Thunderbolt: 1 destroyed
P-47D25 Thunderbolt: 1 destroyed
P-51B Mustang: 1 destroyed


Allied Ships
xAK Hatterlock
DD Quickmatch
xAK Pardo
DD Relentless

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Afternoon Air attack on TF, near Tavoy at 54,60

Weather in hex: Partial cloud

Raid detected at 69 NM, estimated altitude 6,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 22 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M3a Zero x 14
B6N2 Jill x 18
N1K2-J George x 7
Ki-43-IV Oscar x 49

Allied aircraft
Spitfire VIII x 15
Thunderbolt I x 13
F4U-1D Corsair x 9
P-47D2 Thunderbolt x 11
P-47D25 Thunderbolt x 21
P-51B Mustang x 27
F4U-1 Corsair x 8
F4U-1D Corsair x 9

Japanese aircraft losses
A6M3a Zero: 5 destroyed
B6N2 Jill: 11 destroyed
Ki-43-IV Oscar: 8 destroyed


No Allied losses

Allied Ships
xAK Industria

Aircraft Attacking:
1 x B6N2 Jill bombing from 5000 feet
Naval Attack: 2 x 250 kg SAP Bomb

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
ASW attack near Camiguin at 85,74

Japanese Ships
E No.33
E No.46
E No.43

Allied Ships
SS Lionfish, hits 28, on fire, heavy damage

SS Lionfish is sighted by escort
E No.46 attacking submerged sub ....
E No.46 attacking submerged sub ....
Large oil slick appears over area of attack!
Escort abandons search for sub

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ground combat at Tavoy (54,60)

Allied Shock attack

Attacking force 13595 troops, 96 guns, 660 vehicles, Assault Value = 1040

Defending force 4038 troops, 29 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 137

Allied engineers reduce fortifications to 4

Allied adjusted assault: 440

Japanese adjusted defense: 7

Allied assault odds: 62 to 1 (fort level 4)

Allied forces CAPTURE Tavoy !!!

Combat modifiers
Defender: terrain(+), forts(+), leaders(+), disruption(-)
preparation(-), experience(-)
Attacker: shock(+)

Japanese ground losses:
1895 casualties reported
Squads: 105 destroyed, 82 disabled
Non Combat: 77 destroyed, 15 disabled
Engineers: 15 destroyed, 0 disabled
Guns lost 30 (21 destroyed, 9 disabled)
Units retreated 2
Units destroyed 1


Allied ground losses:
135 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 25 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 3 disabled

Engineers: 1 destroyed, 8 disabled

Defeated Japanese Units Retreating!

Assaulting units:
255th Indian Tank Bde /2
50th Indian Para Bde /1
111th Chindit Bde /1
Provisionl Tank Brigade
Gardner's Horse Regiment
I Aus Corps Engineer Battalion
209th Combat Engineer Battalion
IV Corps Engineer Battalion
18th Cavalry Regiment
50th Tank Brigade
9th Indian Div /8
XV Corps Engineer Battalion
XXXIII Corps Engineer Battalion
77th Chindit Bde /1

Defending units:
62nd Infantry Brigade
2nd Raiding Rgt /1
23rd JNAF AF Unit

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Reinforcements:

MGB G-1002 arrives at Hakodate
2nd Mortar Battalion arrives at Tokyo
9th Ind.Hvy.Art. Battalion arrives at Tokyo


Losses:

Loss of SS I-58 on Oct 07, 1944 is admitted
Loss of SS I-171 on Oct 07, 1944 is admitted
Loss of MTB G-540 on Oct 07, 1944 is admitted
Loss of MTB G-552 on Oct 07, 1944 is admitted
Loss of MTB G-872 on Oct 07, 1944 is admitted
Loss of MTB G-886 on Oct 07, 1944 is admitted
Loss of ML G-206 on Oct 07, 1944 is admitted
Loss of MTB G-354 on Oct 07, 1944 is admitted


Ships Sunk:

CVE Anzio is reported to have been sunk near Saipan on Oct 07, 1944
SS Lionfish is reported to have been sunk near Camiguin on Oct 07, 1944
LST-40 is reported to have been sunk near Talaud-eilanden on Aug 13, 1944

___________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________


___________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

Just to showcase the evidence of supposed LR CAP transport interception, here is the list for today. Lots of intercepts, and although I didn't even look at ops losses I think there were no outright A to A kills of transports on the day. We do have a problem.

I had no idea these giants were amphibs until seeing this shot!

----------------------------------------

16 x L2D2 Tabby transporting 2nd Raiding Regiment to Tavoy
Escorted L2D2 Tabby flying to Tavoy intercepted
4 x H8K2 Emily transporting 6th JAAF AF Bn to Sadogashima
6 x H8K2-L Emily transporting 15th Garrison Unit to Victoria Point
25 x Ki-56 Thalia transporting 6th Division to Naga
11 x H8K2 Emily transporting 2nd Amphibious Brigade from Manokwari
6 x H8K2-L Emily transporting 48th Ind.Mixed Brigade from Davao
H8K2-L Emily flying to Davao intercepted
8 x H8K2 Emily transporting 57th Ind.Mixed Brigade from Davao
H8K2 Emily flying to Davao intercepted
12 x H8K2 Emily transporting 57th Ind.Mixed Brigade from Davao
H8K2 Emily flying to Davao intercepted
33 x L2D2 Tabby transporting 216th Naval Construction Battalion from Davao
L2D2 Tabby flying to Davao intercepted
11 x H8K2-L Emily transporting 1st Mobile Brigade from Manokwari
27 x L2D2 Tabby transporting 57th Ind.Mixed Brigade from Davao
L2D2 Tabby flying to Davao intercepted
15 x L2D2 Tabby transporting 7th Base Force from Kendari
17 x L2D2 Tabby transporting 57th Ind.Mixed Brigade from Davao
L2D2 Tabby flying to Davao intercepted
9 x L2D2 Tabby transporting 217th Naval Construction Battalion from Davao
L2D2 Tabby flying to Davao intercepted
22 x Ki-49-II KAI Helen transporting 56th Ind.Mixed Brigade from Davao
Ki-49-II KAI Helen flying to Davao intercepted
15 x Ki-49-II KAI Helen transporting 174th JAAF AF Bn from Cebu
22 x Ki-49-II KAI Helen transporting 206th Naval Construction Battalion from Davao
Ki-49-II KAI Helen flying to Davao intercepted
7 x Ki-49-II KAI Helen transporting 25th Ind. Engineer Regiment from Davao
Ki-49-II KAI Helen flying to Davao intercepted
9 x Ki-57-II Topsy transporting 217th Naval Construction Battalion from Davao
Ki-57-II Topsy flying to Davao intercepted
9 x Ki-49-II KAI Helen transporting 56th Ind.Mixed Brigade from Davao
Ki-49-II KAI Helen flying to Davao intercepted
8 x Ki-49-II KAI Helen transporting 58th Construction Battalion from Ambon
5 x Ki-57-I Topsy transporting 15th Garrison Unit from Port Blair
6 x Ki-57-I Topsy transporting 25th Ind. Engineer Regiment from Davao
Ki-57-I Topsy flying to Davao intercepted
6 x Ki-49-II KAI Helen transporting 248th JAAF AF Bn from Davao
Ki-49-II KAI Helen flying to Davao intercepted
9 x Ki-49-II KAI Helen transporting 15th Base Force from Rabaul
7 x Ki-49-II KAI Helen transporting 188th JAAF AF Bn from Davao
Ki-49-II KAI Helen flying to Davao intercepted
9 x Ki-49-II KAI Helen transporting Ichiki Det. from Kusaie Island
8 x Ki-49-II KAI Helen transporting 90th JAAF AF Bn from Ambon
4 x Ki-49-II KAI Helen transporting 248th JAAF AF Bn from Davao
Ki-49-II KAI Helen flying to Davao intercepted
9 x Ki-49-II KAI Helen transporting 248th JAAF AF Bn from Davao
Ki-49-II KAI Helen flying to Davao intercepted
8 x Ki-56 Thalia transporting 217th Naval Construction Battalion from Davao
Ki-56 Thalia flying to Davao intercepted

___________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________



Attachment (1)

< Message edited by obvert -- 8/16/2013 11:34:31 AM >


_____________________________

"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm." - Winston Churchill

(in reply to obvert)
Post #: 2021
RE: Wild Sheep Chase - 8/16/2013 11:40:19 AM   
obvert


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Jocke and I have had several email conversations back and forth. He graciously wrote after his last long message that he wasn't insinuating that I had intentionally tried to exploit something here, and that he was mostly upset with the lost time in game and the fact he didn't take action on his hunch earlier.

So far there have bee no movements on the thread started in the TECH forum about LR CAP and transport interception, which has also evolved to include transport to 100% damaged bases and ports.

If anyone has more to offer there please do to get the ball moving further down the lane. The game will likely be on hold until this is sorted out.

_____________________________

"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm." - Winston Churchill

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Post #: 2022
RE: Wild Sheep Chase - 8/16/2013 3:52:11 PM   
witpqs


Posts: 25780
Joined: 10/4/2004
From: Argleton
Status: online
quote:

Day Time Surface Combat, near Tinian at 108,94, Range 18,000 Yards

Japanese Ships
E Hasu
E Susuki
E Hiyodori, Shell hits 3

Allied Ships
CVE Windham Bay, Shell hits 3
CVE Bougainville, Shell hits 5, on fire
CVE Matanikau, Shell hits 1
CVE Munda, Shell hits 1
CVE Roi, Shell hits 2, on fire
CVE Attu
CVE Takanis Bay, Shell hits 9, on fire
DE Paul G. Baker, Shell hits 1, on fire
DE Jaccard
DE O'Flaherty
DE Raymond
DE Cauvery
DE Kistna


Some seriously red-faced escort captains there!

_____________________________


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Post #: 2023
RE: Wild Sheep Chase - 8/16/2013 3:53:56 PM   
witpqs


Posts: 25780
Joined: 10/4/2004
From: Argleton
Status: online
I think Michael is pretty busy at work. He did respond to some bug stuff last weekend. I think he has basically no time at all for AE during the week right now.

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Post #: 2024
RE: Wild Sheep Chase - 8/16/2013 4:04:38 PM   
obvert


Posts: 14050
Joined: 1/17/2011
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quote:

ORIGINAL: witpqs

quote:

Day Time Surface Combat, near Tinian at 108,94, Range 18,000 Yards

Japanese Ships
E Hasu
E Susuki
E Hiyodori, Shell hits 3

Allied Ships
CVE Windham Bay, Shell hits 3
CVE Bougainville, Shell hits 5, on fire
CVE Matanikau, Shell hits 1
CVE Munda, Shell hits 1
CVE Roi, Shell hits 2, on fire
CVE Attu
CVE Takanis Bay, Shell hits 9, on fire
DE Paul G. Baker, Shell hits 1, on fire
DE Jaccard
DE O'Flaherty
DE Raymond
DE Cauvery
DE Kistna


Some seriously red-faced escort captains there!


Yeah, I'd say! The speed of the IJN torpedo boats probably helped agains the slower DEs, but crazy this happened in daylight as well!


quote:

ORIGINAL: witpqs

I think Michael is pretty busy at work. He did respond to some bug stuff last weekend. I think he has basically no time at all for AE during the week right now.


Thanks! I hope he has a chance to look at it, but man, he puts in so much time of this game that he doesn't have to do.


< Message edited by obvert -- 8/16/2013 4:06:44 PM >


_____________________________

"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm." - Winston Churchill

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Post #: 2025
RE: Wild Sheep Chase - 8/16/2013 7:29:07 PM   
PaxMondo


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quote:

ORIGINAL: witpqs

I think Michael is pretty busy at work. He did respond to some bug stuff last weekend. I think he has basically no time at all for AE during the week right now.

I've swapped a couple of emails with him this week and that is exactly what he said ... RL was encroaching upon all of his other activities.

_____________________________

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Post #: 2026
RE: Wild Sheep Chase - 8/16/2013 10:35:13 PM   
obvert


Posts: 14050
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quote:

ORIGINAL: PaxMondo


quote:

ORIGINAL: witpqs

I think Michael is pretty busy at work. He did respond to some bug stuff last weekend. I think he has basically no time at all for AE during the week right now.

I've swapped a couple of emails with him this week and that is exactly what he said ... RL was encroaching upon all of his other activities.


Thanks Pax. It's good to have some confirmation that it might be a while.

I sent a note to Jocke last night detailing my process through all of this, and the apologies for not realizing that there was a problem with LR CAP and transport. If I was paying closer attention I should have figured it out a few days earlier at least.

He seems really on the edge of quitting this entirely. After a lot of good communication over that last few days he's not sent anything back to my last note. For most players that might be par for the course, but we've always been really good at getting to each other and working through whatever was happening. I've had to convince him twice previously to continue the game when he thought it was hopeless and now look at his position. I've made some mistakes, and he's made a few, but generally I think this has been a good contest showing the different abilities of the sides during various stages of the war. I feel like this is his time to enjoy it, and so it comes as a huge surprise and shock that this is causing so much difficulty.

I'm happy to HR the troop transport, especially if no fix is coming for the LR CAP. I heard no response on that offer so far. It makes me wonder of he's actually just burned out.

We all probably spend too much time at this, and that can sometimes lead to problems when we feel we've pushed toward a goal and something didn't go as planned. Jocke's goal for about a year of game was Mindanao. He was so ecstatic when he forced the landing at Cotabato and made it there. Now I feel this has taken the wind out completely. For him this was symbolic, not just a stepping stone. The place to finally catch and destroy a large contingent of the IJA.

It sucks that the LR CAP issue has gotten in the way, but what can we do now? I'm game to play on with whatever stipulations he needs to feel justified in this situation. I'm just starting to wonder if he's ready to throw in the towel.

_____________________________

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Post #: 2027
RE: Wild Sheep Chase - 8/16/2013 10:52:22 PM   
Captain Cruft


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I've been surprised at how easy it is to shift large troop bodies via air in my own game as Japan. My opponent has never mentioned it though, and I am now getting to the line where I intend to "die and inflict casualties" rather than run away so it will become a moot point.

If Jocke is feeling peeved perhaps he could be persuaded to continue by an HR which states that you will only use it to move HQs and av support or some such? I suspect it's the movement of AV which annoys.

(in reply to obvert)
Post #: 2028
RE: Wild Sheep Chase - 8/16/2013 11:12:52 PM   
obvert


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Captain Cruft

I've been surprised at how easy it is to shift large troop bodies via air in my own game as Japan. My opponent has never mentioned it though, and I am now getting to the line where I intend to "die and inflict casualties" rather than run away so it will become a moot point.

If Jocke is feeling peeved perhaps he could be persuaded to continue by an HR which states that you will only use it to move HQs and av support or some such? I suspect it's the movement of AV which annoys.


That would be completely fine if he wanted something like that. I have used it because it was possible and I felt approximated things that the Japanese did that don't work so well in game, like barges and fast transport. If it's sticking point I'm happy to compromise, and I've hopefully made that clear.

_____________________________

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Post #: 2029
RE: Wild Sheep Chase - 8/19/2013 6:50:16 PM   
obvert


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We've had some good discussions about the situation with air transport and the inability to LR CAP. I'm glad we looked into it, and that we both did some testing. It's much better to know this has been happening than to be frustrated by the amount of stuff moving without interdiction.

I've agreed to wait to see if michaelm can do anything for the LR CAP issue, but I also guess this stoppage has to do with the epic scope of the current game and this particular point in it, where the Allies have increasingly more to do getting all of their stuff into place to crush my stuff. Jocke has mentioned enjoying his evenings with his wife and not missing doing turns. This seems like more than a problem with the air transport system. If your heart isn't in it it's hard to justify the time expenditure.

Anyway, I like some of the suggestions. I'd be happy moving forward with just the ability to transport HQs and AV support. I can still buy back units and anyway it would save me a ton of fiddling that definitely takes the fun out of some turns. I'd spend less on transport planes and pilots, and save a bit of supply on that end that I could use to rebuild units. So I can see ways to move forward with compromise. We'll see if Jocke decides he does want to go throughout the last year.

In the meantime I'll go through tracker a bit and show where the Empire is at this point. One of my aims with this AAR is to give other Japanese players some indication of possibilities throughout the war, and how certain decisions have created the current circumstances. It might also be good to point out what I think is working that I should have done more of earlier. Especially in the defense of oil.

Feel free to add in about the current state of the game and continue to offer ideas going forward as if it will continue.

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Post #: 2030
RE: Wild Sheep Chase - 8/20/2013 2:14:49 PM   
PaxMondo


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Hope you guys are able to get the game back going after a break. You have both played well and this game is deep into '44. Been very enjoyable read so far ...

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Post #: 2031
RE: Wild Sheep Chase - 8/21/2013 6:51:10 AM   
obvert


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Thanks Pax. I'm optimistic.

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Post #: 2032
RE: Wild Sheep Chase - 8/21/2013 6:54:20 AM   
obvert


Posts: 14050
Joined: 1/17/2011
From: PDX (and now) London, UK
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GLOBAL MAP
___________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

This should say a lot about where the game is now. The giant arrow of the Allied drive into the PI is pretty obvious, as are the potential areas for strikes along the very long and narrow LOC where we still have many operational bases. Just waiting for activation.




Attachment (1)

< Message edited by obvert -- 8/21/2013 11:50:13 AM >


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"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm." - Winston Churchill

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Post #: 2033
RE: Wild Sheep Chase - 8/21/2013 11:55:40 AM   
veji1

 

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I find his axis of advance somewhat surprising. Having Mindanao is good an all, but his focus now should be getting the bases in Borneo/Celebes that would then allow him to plaster your oil production. Because contrary to RL, interdicting traffic in the China seas is good an all, but it makes only a relative difference, as lots can still flow by land from Singers up.

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Post #: 2034
RE: Wild Sheep Chase - 8/21/2013 12:43:57 PM   
fcharton

 

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I wouldn't care much for that supply path, either... To resupply Mindanao, he needs either to break through the Celebes (where you most certainly have quite a few planes), or move along the northern coast of New Guinea.

Do you have a possibility to send raiders along the coast of New Guinea, strike at his lifeline, and break his advance for lack of supplies?

Francois

< Message edited by fcharton -- 8/21/2013 12:45:02 PM >

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Post #: 2035
RE: Wild Sheep Chase - 8/21/2013 1:20:30 PM   
PaxMondo


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I will take the opposing view here; I think you are in grave danger. He has isolated the Gilberts, Marshall's, and Solomons. You are the one in trouble for supplying your front. Minidinao has 2 or 3 bases which can support B-29's, and it is far better positioned than the Gilberts to cause havoc. Once he gets 4E's in Mindinao, your entire DEI oil production can be exterminated in a couple of weeks, Singers is vulnerable. HK is vulnerable.

If you cannot dislodge him from Mindinao, or re-take one of those two islands in the center (which I suspect you can't, not in '44), I would be pulling most of those troops out of Solomon's/Marshall's for sure. You need to really reinforce the Bonin's, Okinawa, Formosa. I think you are badly overextended right now. I would be re-trenching fast before I had too many units cut off.

IJ has almost as many ID's as the allies total. Granted, not as much firepower, but manpower yes. That means if you don't get too many cut-off, you can present a really formidable defense close in. Also, you can't afford to lose too many support units. IJ has so few and they are so small to begin with.

Just the opposing view ... you're playing great here so I may be completely off base.

< Message edited by PaxMondo -- 8/21/2013 1:22:16 PM >


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Post #: 2036
RE: Wild Sheep Chase - 8/21/2013 1:44:57 PM   
zuluhour


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+1 Pax

As CnCPac, I'd be licking my chops placing Gato's as well.

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Post #: 2037
RE: Wild Sheep Chase - 8/21/2013 2:48:46 PM   
veji1

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: PaxMondo

I will take the opposing view here; I think you are in grave danger. He has isolated the Gilberts, Marshall's, and Solomons. You are the one in trouble for supplying your front. Minidinao has 2 or 3 bases which can support B-29's, and it is far better positioned than the Gilberts to cause havoc. Once he gets 4E's in Mindinao, your entire DEI oil production can be exterminated in a couple of weeks, Singers is vulnerable. HK is vulnerable.

If you cannot dislodge him from Mindinao, or re-take one of those two islands in the center (which I suspect you can't, not in '44), I would be pulling most of those troops out of Solomon's/Marshall's for sure. You need to really reinforce the Bonin's, Okinawa, Formosa. I think you are badly overextended right now. I would be re-trenching fast before I had too many units cut off.

IJ has almost as many ID's as the allies total. Granted, not as much firepower, but manpower yes. That means if you don't get too many cut-off, you can present a really formidable defense close in. Also, you can't afford to lose too many support units. IJ has so few and they are so small to begin with.

Just the opposing view ... you're playing great here so I may be completely off base.


O I agree with you, of course just controling Mindanao and all those PI bases gives him so many supporting air bases that the South china Seas are effectively closed for business, he is indeed in a very good position ( i find it absurd that the Kamis aren't available yet, as the danger is mortal).

I just disagree on the oil front, but I might be wrong. Getting a few more bases in Borneo Celebes would give him enough Air bases to plaster the oil not only with B29, but with other 4Es, and also ensure that he can effectively shut traffic between Palembang and Singers down. Than it is over in terms of oil.

But you are right in a sense, the oil in 44 is not that critical anymore as clever japanese players have stockpiled HIs for plane production.

And again you are right that everything further than the marianas is irrelevant now, but i fear that he cannot evacuate now. and keeping a bit of Aviation support here and there to allow harassment and coup de mains is still useful.

Jocke is doing really well anyway.

_____________________________

Adieu Ô Dieu odieux... signé Adam

(in reply to PaxMondo)
Post #: 2038
RE: Wild Sheep Chase - 8/21/2013 3:53:38 PM   
obvert


Posts: 14050
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From: PDX (and now) London, UK
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Interesting comments.

INTERDICTING THE ALLIED LOC: I have been able to work on the transport of goods and men in several ways here using Rabaul, Hollandia, other Solomon Islands that have supply still (about 5-6 left over 5k in supply in spite of no shipment in 8-10 months there) and by moving the KB in to the Celebes Sea. He has decent CAP all along the route but it can't cover everything always. There are too many Allied bases with good 80-100 planes CAP in the Moluccas to hit this portion easily, so the lower DEI and Celebes bases are also evacuating.

Several instances during the past 5 weeks:

Fast Es hit and sank 12-15 LSTs near Mindanao.
Graces hit and sink 3-4 tankers from Rabaul.
The KB moved in and sank 60-70 ships in the Celebes Sea plus as many as 15-20k troops in one day of missions.
Graces sank 10-12 xAK and escorts at Milne Bay with 5k troops on board.
After Saipan invasion Es and DDs move in and engage two TFs of tankers and CVEs, likely sinking a few and damaging as many as 10 ships.
Jakes from Hollandia hit and likely sink 3-4 loaded tankers

I have a lot of float plane groups that would be fairly good against soft targets in a kami role. I'm interested in trying this anyway. A Jake with 4 x 60kg should do a lot against a transport or even a DD.

ORGANIZED RETREAT: About the Central Pacific, this has been far behind the front for some time and all Gilberts/Marshalls/Carolines are still being vacated and troops coming back as much as possible. Very little is left out there. Only 200 AV at Truk even but a good amount of support troops. Once the CVs clear off I'll try to get some of this moving out but it will likely have to use the dreaded air transport system. He doesn't care at this point to take any of these places as it's 10/44 and he's in the PI. His interest is speed moving forward.

It may look like we're all over the place, but the majority of forces are back. Each big Marianas base has 800-900 AV and the Bonins are around 500-600 AV and building. I need the other half of several divisions bought out to get there from China. Formosa has several divisions and about 1200 AV total. Luzon has about 3000 AV now.

PROTECTING AND MOVING THE OIL: Although all of your points are valid he's already been getting to the oil by hitting it at night with B-29s. Contrary to veji1's comment above, oil is more critical than ever. I wasn't quite as prudent as I could have been in the beginning, but I've tried hard to conserve over the past year and a half at least, and still the oil is low. There is no surplus late as oil centers begin getting knocked off. I have about 4 months worth in the HI and could run ships off of the surplus in the tanks of the xAKs in the HI for quite a while.

He hit Medan earliest, getting the oil to 36 (174). Then he hit the Chinese centers knocking out Lanchow and Sian completely. After moving around to base at Cotabato he's knocked off Miri and has started in on Palembang. He destroyed 85 oil there in two attacks, but most of that was the first one. In the second I put all but one of my NF groups here, and the flak upgrades did wonders as well. His whole flotilla could only start 10k fires during that one we downed about 20 B-29s (for equal losses of Irving-S).

RESERVES AND THE FUTURE: I'll post some economic news soon, but there is some not too far back showing about 2 million fuel left and about 200k oil. My hope is to continue producing and sending at least 75% of what is traveling up now through into 45, so for the next few months. Then maybe only 50% of that for a month. Then 25% for another month. Then getting down to about 10-15% by the end of March, most of that from areas close to and on the HI. So if new HI can be produced at full tilt into April 45 I'l be ecstatic. He can bomb the HI with B-29s from the Southern Luzon area once he captures that and from quite a few other islands in the PI plus he'll likely have the traditional Marianas bases for that soon.

FORTIFICATION: My current focus is transitioning back from Burma and protecting agains the Tavoy incursion plus getting another few divisions to Formosa. Then the Okinawa area is the priority. Making sure I can defend there at a high level so he can't get fighters in range early and good standard 4E bases. I've got unit building forts on al lot those little islands and Okinawa bases are ready to go but could use another 500 AV in each. First things first though I hope to bog things down on Luzon and especially start inflicting some losses once kamis are activated, which could be at any moment.

< Message edited by obvert -- 8/21/2013 4:06:09 PM >


_____________________________

"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm." - Winston Churchill

(in reply to veji1)
Post #: 2039
RE: Wild Sheep Chase - 8/21/2013 4:07:10 PM   
fcharton

 

Posts: 1112
Joined: 10/4/2010
From: France
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quote:

ORIGINAL: PaxMondo
I will take the opposing view here; I think you are in grave danger. He has isolated the Gilberts, Marshall's, and Solomons.


Is this really so? Those areas are only isolated if you consider holding Yap (0 SPS airfield), Wake (same) and Eniwetok (a bit larger, but atoll), block all communications between the Marshalls and the Mariannas or Japan. I think the bottleneck drawn on the map above is a bit of an exageration.

Of course, Jocke should try and close the pocket, but this means several invasions on well built bases, and usually on atolls. This should take time, be costly, and delay his advance in the Philippines (and it is late 1944 already...). And if he doesn't, his logisitical tail is very long and vulnerable.

My impression is the Erik is in a perfect position to delay the Allied advance, and force Jocke to move in the Celebes or in the Carolines, which may take a while. I would try to be naughty in the south pacific...

Francois

< Message edited by fcharton -- 8/21/2013 4:11:07 PM >

(in reply to PaxMondo)
Post #: 2040
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