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v1.50.40 Public Beta Now Available! - 11/15/2011 3:34:58 PM   
Andrew Loveridge


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Hello All,

There is a new version of the 1.05 Public Beta in the Members Club. It includes AI improvements, a change in fort decay, and more Data and bug fixes.
Please give it a try if you are interested in working with Betas, and give us your feed back on these changes.


V1.05.40 – November 10, 2011

    New Features and Rule Changes


      1)Formula Change – Made adjustments to air combat during air transport missions, including increasing the intensity of escort vs. interceptor combat.
      2)AI Change – More improvements in the AI including the defensive line building function.

    Bug Fixes

      1)Fixed a bug where creation of Guards cavalry units were limited when they should not have been.
      2)Fixed a bug where Heavy Mortar support requirement was set to 0.
      3)Fixed incorrect information in the detailed battle report having to do with the number of disrupted and damaged elements.
      4)Fixed a bug that allowed rail repair units to repair further than 4 hexes away from a valid supply source.
      5)Fixed a bug where support units attached directly to a withdrawing combat unit were incorrectly getting withdrawn along with the combat unit.
      6)Fixed a bug where the city picked by an HQ as its supply source could cause a problem if the city was cut off from supply. The HQ will now switch to a reachable destination.
      7)Fixed the fort decay rate to match the table previously published in the 1.05.18 readme notes (decay rate was running a little higher than it should have been):
      Extra decay percentage:

        Level___Clear____Snow____Mud/Blizzard
        0.............20%.........40%..............80%
        1.............12%.........24%..............48%
        2...............4%...........8%..............16%

    Data and Scenario Changes

      1)Stug-H42 (0029) renamed to StuH42 and frontal armor reduced to 82 from 90.
      2)Nashorn (0038) accuracy rating reduced to 450 from 650 to correspond to Elephant and King Tiger equipped with same gun; Nashorn gun retains its 1,000 yard range advantage to reflect its higher elevation ability.
      3)Hyphens removed from the names of the Stug vehicles (0028, 0030, 0031, 0140, 0170, 0286).
      4)Added the Panzer IVg with L/48 gun (0221) as Panzer IVg2 with a production start date of 2/43.  Panzer IVg now upgrades to Panzer IVg2 which in turn upgrades to Panzer IVh.  Panzer IVg2 uses picture and symbol of Panzer IVg.
      5)The Karl Siege Mortar Battery (OB 172) was renamed to Siege Mortar Battery.

Changes in 1.05.39
Changes in 1.05.37
Changes in 1.05.32
Changes in 1.05.30
Changes in 1.05.23
Changes in 1.05.18

_____________________________

Post #: 1
RE: v1.50.40 Public Beta Now Available! - 11/15/2011 4:48:10 PM   
Toddr22_slith

 

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Andrew,

Thanks so much for you and the matrix team.

Question, how will the patch affect ongoing games. Will the AI changes be incorporated?

Thanks

(in reply to Andrew Loveridge)
Post #: 2
RE: v1.50.40 Public Beta Now Available! - 11/15/2011 4:51:53 PM   
Joel Billings


Posts: 31527
Joined: 9/20/2000
From: Santa Rosa, CA
Status: online
Yes, the AI changes will impact any future turn. As always, data changes will only be seen in newly started games, but all other changes should impact current games.

_____________________________

All understanding comes after the fact.
-- Soren Kierkegaard

(in reply to Toddr22_slith)
Post #: 3
RE: v1.50.40 Public Beta Now Available! - 11/15/2011 5:11:27 PM   
Mehring

 

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2)Nashorn (0038) accuracy rating reduced to 450 from 650 to correspond to Elephant and King Tiger equipped with same gun; Nashorn gun retains its 1,000 yard range advantage to reflect its higher elevation ability.

Do open turret vehicles not receive an accuracy/ROF advantage? Being used to ASL, I'd assumed they should.

_____________________________

“Old age is the most unexpected of all things that can happen to a man.”
-Leon Trotsky

(in reply to Joel Billings)
Post #: 4
RE: v1.50.40 Public Beta Now Available! - 11/15/2011 8:18:27 PM   
Peltonx


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4)Fixed a bug that allowed rail repair units to repair further than 4 hexes away from a valid supply source

Does this include Baltic?

(in reply to Mehring)
Post #: 5
RE: v1.50.40 Public Beta Now Available! - 11/15/2011 8:30:20 PM   
Blubel

 

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I would say no, as they stated that they fixed it. The manual says in 14.2.2.4 that it has to be within 6 hexes of a supply source in the Baltic prior to Dec 1941.

(in reply to Peltonx)
Post #: 6
RE: v1.50.40 Public Beta Now Available! - 11/15/2011 9:48:25 PM   
Joel Billings


Posts: 31527
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From: Santa Rosa, CA
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The rail units match the rules now, so 4 outside of Baltic, 6 in Baltic (I think to end of 41, but whatever the rules say).

_____________________________

All understanding comes after the fact.
-- Soren Kierkegaard

(in reply to Peltonx)
Post #: 7
RE: v1.50.40 Public Beta Now Available! - 11/16/2011 2:19:32 AM   
carlkay58

 

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So max rr line repair is now 4 hexes and doubling up on rr eng for the Axis is now a no-no. Interesting.

(in reply to Joel Billings)
Post #: 8
RE: v1.50.40 Public Beta Now Available! - 11/16/2011 3:32:03 PM   
marty_01

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Mehring

2)Nashorn (0038) accuracy rating reduced to 450 from 650 to correspond to Elephant and King Tiger equipped with same gun; Nashorn gun retains its 1,000 yard range advantage to reflect its higher elevation ability.

Do open turret vehicles not receive an accuracy/ROF advantage? Being used to ASL, I'd assumed they should.


I was thinking the same thing when I saw your post. I thought it was interesting that the game actually has these sorts of micro details.

It's perhaps debatable, but in my mind there is a situational awareness advantage for a gun crew operating from an open topped tank destroyer vs. a turreted vehicle -- that is if the open turreted TD isn’t being subjected to small arms fire or fragmentation. If it is -- than I'd put the ability to maintain situational awareness back into the court of the close top\turreted tank. But in the open topped turret everyone potentially has the ability to raise there heads above the splinter screen and help with identifying both potential targets as well as fall of shot\corrections once a target is engaged.

But along the same lines -- since we are talking about this level of tactical micro detail within the context of an operational level simulation -- in most situations a tank with the ability to traverse its gun 360-degrees via a turret has a huge advantage over a limited traverse assault gun or tank destroyer. Is this sort of thing somehow assessed by the game engine?

(in reply to Mehring)
Post #: 9
RE: v1.50.40 Public Beta Now Available! - 11/16/2011 6:56:45 PM   
Denniss

 

Posts: 7619
Joined: 1/10/2002
From: Germany, Hannover (region)
Status: online
There's a message error in the event log:
xxx tons of OIL are consumed by oil production
This is actually FUEL production (consuming oil but not producing oil), it's also stated as used by FUEL production in the oil production section

(in reply to marty_01)
Post #: 10
RE: v1.50.40 Public Beta Now Available! - 11/17/2011 5:25:46 PM   
Tarhunnas


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From: Hex X37, Y15
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Thanks for making the game "remeber" the serial number!

_____________________________

Read my AAR:s ye mighty, and despair!
41Ger
41Sov
41Ger
42Ger
42Sov

(in reply to Denniss)
Post #: 11
RE: v1.50.40 Public Beta Now Available! - 11/17/2011 10:01:14 PM   
Cavalry Corp

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: marty_01


quote:

ORIGINAL: Mehring

2)Nashorn (0038) accuracy rating reduced to 450 from 650 to correspond to Elephant and King Tiger equipped with same gun; Nashorn gun retains its 1,000 yard range advantage to reflect its higher elevation ability.

Do open turret vehicles not receive an accuracy/ROF advantage? Being used to ASL, I'd assumed they should.


I was thinking the same thing when I saw your post. I thought it was interesting that the game actually has these sorts of micro details.

It's perhaps debatable, but in my mind there is a situational awareness advantage for a gun crew operating from an open topped tank destroyer vs. a turreted vehicle -- that is if the open turreted TD isn’t being subjected to small arms fire or fragmentation. If it is -- than I'd put the ability to maintain situational awareness back into the court of the close top\turreted tank. But in the open topped turret everyone potentially has the ability to raise there heads above the splinter screen and help with identifying both potential targets as well as fall of shot\corrections once a target is engaged.

But along the same lines -- since we are talking about this level of tactical micro detail within the context of an operational level simulation -- in most situations a tank with the ability to traverse its gun 360-degrees via a turret has a huge advantage over a limited traverse assault gun or tank destroyer. Is this sort of thing somehow assessed by the game engine?




These kind of units like Nashorns are not intended to take tanks on in a close melee or indeed get closed on by infantry. They relied on range. The Pak 43 gun on thes guys is a very long range MONSTER of a killer.

Cav

(in reply to marty_01)
Post #: 12
RE: v1.50.40 Public Beta Now Available! - 11/18/2011 3:13:50 AM   
Joel Billings


Posts: 31527
Joined: 9/20/2000
From: Santa Rosa, CA
Status: online
Here's Jim's answer re the open top vehicles:

The open top tank destroyers with fixed guns (essentially everything except the American ones) suffer only a 10% ROF penalty (American turreted TDs suffer no penalty) to reflect the limitations of the fixed gun. Closed topped AFVs suffer a much higher ROF penalty based on crew size (number of men in turret) and whether the vehicle is turreted or not. For example to compare three vehicles firing essentially the same gun, the Marder III gets an ROF penalty of –1, the Panzer IVh gets a –4, and the Stug III gets a –5. I reduced the Nashorn’s accuracy because when I looked at optics I didn’t see anything to justify the advantage (original rating was based on anecdotal reports of the Nashorn’s accuracy). One could argue that the ROF penalty for closed topped fixed gun AFVs should be greater but that would squeeze all these weapons together despite big differences in gun size (think Stug III vs SU-152).

_____________________________

All understanding comes after the fact.
-- Soren Kierkegaard

(in reply to Mehring)
Post #: 13
RE: v1.50.40 Public Beta Now Available! - 11/18/2011 10:55:08 AM   
Mehring

 

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One aspect of the equation is range. At long range, from where these thin skinned open top TDs were idealy employed, targetting is more likely to be within the gun's covered arc, so to be super detailed, less accuracy penalty should apply. The closer the target, the more its movement (perpendicular to?) accross the firer's LOS necessitates gun traverse, so it's at close range that the turret advantage really applies.

_____________________________

“Old age is the most unexpected of all things that can happen to a man.”
-Leon Trotsky

(in reply to Joel Billings)
Post #: 14
RE: v1.50.40 Public Beta Now Available! - 11/18/2011 1:18:25 PM   
ComradeP

 

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quote:

There's a message error in the event log:
xxx tons of OIL are consumed by oil production
This is actually FUEL production (consuming oil but not producing oil), it's also stated as used by FUEL production in the oil production section


Mentioned that months ago, I guess it was overlooked.

_____________________________

SSG tester
WitE Alpha tester
Panzer Corps Beta tester
Unity of Command scenario designer

(in reply to Mehring)
Post #: 15
RE: v1.50.40 Public Beta Now Available! - 11/18/2011 3:29:10 PM   
Tarhunnas


Posts: 3152
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From: Hex X37, Y15
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Engagement ranges, turrets and situational awareness of the crews of different AFVs seems very micro for an operational level game. That said, I believe all this is very theoretical, and actual combat experience tend to show that engagement ranges are often much shorter in reality than expected, and the differences between turreted and turretless AFVs are smaller than it would seem. Basically, as a tanker, if you are firing anywhere except in your frontal arc you have done something wrong.


_____________________________

Read my AAR:s ye mighty, and despair!
41Ger
41Sov
41Ger
42Ger
42Sov

(in reply to ComradeP)
Post #: 16
RE: v1.50.40 Public Beta Now Available! - 11/18/2011 6:51:29 PM   
Denniss

 

Posts: 7619
Joined: 1/10/2002
From: Germany, Hannover (region)
Status: online
There's no image for the german 120mm GrW 42 mortar. As it was just a copy of the soviet one I suggest to use a modified soviet image (as was done for the hungarian and romanian version). Please verify the orientation of the image is correct - SOV and ROM point to the right, HUN point to the left.
BTW the symbols for these mortart should be checked as well as they show a short-barrelled infantry gun instead of a mortar-like symbol used on the 50/60mm ones

(in reply to Tarhunnas)
Post #: 17
RE: v1.50.40 Public Beta Now Available! - 11/18/2011 7:14:31 PM   
Mehring

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Tarhunnas

Engagement ranges, turrets and situational awareness of the crews of different AFVs seems very micro for an operational level game. That said, I believe all this is very theoretical, and actual combat experience tend to show that engagement ranges are often much shorter in reality than expected, and the differences between turreted and turretless AFVs are smaller than it would seem. Basically, as a tanker, if you are firing anywhere except in your frontal arc you have done something wrong.


Yes, in most cases the practical engagement range is going to be a lot shorter than the theoretical max... but not always so. And if you like watching the proverbial paint dry, try watching a battle on message level 7. You'll see the engagement closing from long range to H2H. I never finished a battle like that, got things to do, but I wonder weather the open top tanks go in with the sappers. It happened in real life but was a sign of shortages or desperation.

_____________________________

“Old age is the most unexpected of all things that can happen to a man.”
-Leon Trotsky

(in reply to Tarhunnas)
Post #: 18
RE: v1.50.40 Public Beta Now Available! - 11/18/2011 11:45:45 PM   
Schmart

 

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You guys do a bang up job. Is there a timeline until a beta patch becomes an official release? I typically only use official patches, and I'm looking forward to the 1.05 official release. I've been off WitE playing for several months, and itching to try out 1.05!

(in reply to Mehring)
Post #: 19
RE: v1.50.40 Public Beta Now Available! - 11/19/2011 1:14:52 AM   
Denniss

 

Posts: 7619
Joined: 1/10/2002
From: Germany, Hannover (region)
Status: online
While doing some tests with the 1941 scenario on human/human and no activity on both sides I noticed:
1) On turn 2 I usually see one or two Stab units degrading their craft from Ju88A to Ju86. May be caused by empty Ju88A pool on scenario start or the upgrade/degrade check is made prior to production aircraft entering the pool.
2) The engine happily exports Ju 87D to axis minor allies while Ju87B units are waiting for an upgrade. Happens in other scenarios with other aircraft as well.
3) The current-turn losses caused by attrition/in the initial supply phase are gone once you leave the losses page and re-enter it. They are moved to total losses though. WAD?

In the 1943 scenario there's a unit with Bf 109 E-7 and another one with G-2s, the G-2 unit took several turns to upgrade despite having lots of G-6 (except those happily exported); no upgrades to the E-7 even after 15 or so turns. Maybe the E-7 fail to upgrade because there are no F-2 available (as their direct upgrade path) ?
There are a lot of understrength Hs 126 recon units not upgrading to other types despite 100+ Bf 109 G-6/R2 and 40+ Ju 88D-1 available.
Two units are shown with Bf 110C-5 recons, the 3.(F)/22 had Ju 88D-1 at that time. 3./NAGr4 is a bit harder to track, started with Bf 110 G-3, ceased operation in 08/43 and was reformed in 02/44 with Bf 109 G-8

http://www.ww2.dk/oob/bestand/aufkl/b3ag122.html
http://www.ww2.dk/oob/bestand/aufkl/b3nagr4.html


(in reply to Schmart)
Post #: 20
RE: v1.50.40 Public Beta Now Available! - 11/19/2011 9:52:37 AM   
Empire101


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Thanks for all the support given by your team and Matrix in general. Much appreciated

_____________________________

Our lives may be more boring than those who lived in apocalyptic times,
but being bored is greatly preferable to being prematurely dead because of some ideological fantasy.
- Michael Burleigh


(in reply to Joel Billings)
Post #: 21
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