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Diplomacy in Legends!!! - 11/6/2011 9:21:12 PM   
ASHBERY76


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It is improved>?

Can you still respawn bribes to the A.I's to make them all love you with little worry or consequence.Money does not scale at all well as the economy grows.Mid to late game money gets huge.

Can you still agree treaties for good terms with the A.I and then cancel it 10 seconds later.I hope enforced treaty lengths are included.

Does the A.I still buy mining bases you just put in their systems for massive cash.Bad exploit.

Is subjugation fixed so that the A.I actually becomes your vassal empire.Other empires should not be subjugating an already subjugated race.Diplomacy should only be allowed with its master.

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RE: Diplomacy in Legends!!! - 11/7/2011 7:35:26 AM   
J HG T


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Well, you can avoid exploits just by not using them. Still, I hope those things get more or less fixed.

Bribes should have cap on relationship bonus. Maybe +10-20 and after that bribes would have no effect other than giving money to your friends/allies.

Mining base, colony and tech prices should definetly be checked and rebalanced a bit. They can be exploited heavily.
Also, low-tech stuff (proxy sensors, for example) can be given away for cheap relationship bonuses.

Never really thought that about subjugation, but I have to agree; No multiple subjugators.


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RE: Diplomacy in Legends!!! - 11/7/2011 11:41:11 AM   
adamsolo


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Regarding exploits I agree. Just avoid using them (what's the fun of using them anyway?) Moreover, since DW has no multiplayer whatsoever exploits are even less of a problem. I'll just not worry about it that much. At least with the ones that are found by chance, are not related with a core function and are deliberately done to win advantage (like the mining base exploit you described).

The part I would like fixed however is the AI bribes. Those make the AI love you too much. In my games I found always to be too easy to bribe AIs. Almost everybody is my friend (I bribed the Sluken and Dandalas Collective once too easily). I think bribes are nice but maybe they should be tweaked a bit.

Regarding treaties exploits, could you give an example?

Mining bases in AI territory exploit. Avoid doing it.

Subjugation is not working as it should? AI pays tribute and you can see their territory. You mean there should be more things like demand to go to war with you, stuff like that? I have issues though is with Protectorates. As they stand now what are their use?



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RE: Diplomacy in Legends!!! - 11/7/2011 11:54:57 AM   
Shuul

 

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There must not be ANY exploits in a good balanced game. As they makes game very easy to play, even if you trying not to use them, you will sometimes do it, maybe when you have a hard times in-game.
About bribing, maybe some "noble" races will drop their relations with you if you try to bribe them?

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RE: Diplomacy in Legends!!! - 11/7/2011 3:20:57 PM   
Kayoz


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quote:

ORIGINAL: ASHBERY76

It is improved>?


I'm curious as to whether the completely broken "get your military ships out of my system" option has been fixed. It's never worked, not to any degree. No matter the ships, no matter the diplomatic status, all you ever get is "I don't know what you're talking about. What ships?" sort of response.

As for the exploits - yes, there's a certain onus on the player not to use known exploits. However, that does not absolve the developer to make the trivial change to eliminate, or at least mitigate, known exploits that have been around since inception. Hasn't Code Force had enough time, opportunity and feedback to fix these?

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RE: Diplomacy in Legends!!! - 11/7/2011 6:16:29 PM   
ASHBERY76


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quote:

ORIGINAL: adamsolo

Subjugation is not working as it should? AI pays tribute and you can see their territory. You mean there should be more things like demand to go to war with you, stuff like that? I have issues though is with Protectorates. As they stand now what are their use?




Some other race can declare war on the race you just subjugated and get another subjugation treaty and get a slice of the 10% that should be yours exclusive.A subjugation treaty should be exclusive to only 1 race and other empires should not be able to declare war on them.It is like the Allies won WW2 and then Switzerland DOW to get some free lunch at the end when Germany was rubble.

Protectorates are used to protect smaller empires from Evil races.Protect your sphere of influence,ect.

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RE: Diplomacy in Legends!!! - 11/7/2011 8:13:02 PM   
adamsolo


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quote:

ORIGINAL: ASHBERY76


quote:

ORIGINAL: adamsolo
Subjugation is not working as it should? AI pays tribute and you can see their territory. You mean there should be more things like demand to go to war with you, stuff like that? I have issues though is with Protectorates. As they stand now what are their use?


Some other race can declare war on the race you just subjugated and get another subjugation treaty and get a slice of the 10% that should be yours exclusive.A subjugation treaty should be exclusive to only 1 race and other empires should not be able to declare war on them.It is like the Allies won WW2 and then Switzerland DOW to get some free lunch at the end when Germany was rubble.

Yes, that should be fixed.

quote:

ORIGINAL: ASHBERY76
Protectorates are used to protect smaller empires from Evil races.Protect your sphere of influence,ect.

I get that but it could be more than that. In exchange for protection, the protectorate should be enforced with obligations like paying tribute or being vassals, probably you could have access to their resources for example. That or subjugation should be more punitive. 10% income seems insufficient. Money is not really a problem in DW so maybe the subjugated (by force) or protectorates (by diplomacy) should pay more than they do now. I would like that.




< Message edited by adamsolo -- 11/7/2011 8:14:12 PM >


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RE: Diplomacy in Legends!!! - 11/7/2011 8:49:52 PM   
JCVocke

 

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quote:

Some other race can declare war on the race you just subjugated and get another subjugation treaty and get a slice of the 10% that should be yours exclusive.A subjugation treaty should be exclusive to only 1 race and other empires should not be able to declare war on them.It is like the Allies won WW2 and then Switzerland DOW to get some free lunch at the end when Germany was rubble.

Ahem.

That said there should be repercussions unless the two Dominion Masters explicitly come to some sort of agreement, I would suggest a gradual degradation of relations marked 'Dominion Friction'.

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RE: Diplomacy in Legends!!! - 11/8/2011 2:05:57 AM   
Kayoz


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quote:

ORIGINAL: adamsolo

I get that but it could be more than that. In exchange for protection, the protectorate should be enforced with obligations like paying tribute or being vassals, probably you could have access to their resources for example. That or subjugation should be more punitive. 10% income seems insufficient. Money is not really a problem in DW so maybe the subjugated (by force) or protectorates (by diplomacy) should pay more than they do now. I would like that.


I think they kept it low, so that if the player has to accept subjugation to end a war, then they can still claw their way back.

Currently, there's no repercussion for declaring war on someone else's subjugated race. That war is going to impact on the master's income, so at the very least, the master should be notified. As it stands, you don't know unless you explicitly look in your subjugated race's diplomacy list.

As a corollary, subjugated races shouldn't be able to declare war unless they get permission from their master - or at the very least, informing them. Again, the problem is the same as above.

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RE: Diplomacy in Legends!!! - 11/8/2011 3:02:32 AM   
adamsolo


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Kayoz

Currently, there's no repercussion for declaring war on someone else's subjugated race. That war is going to impact on the master's income, so at the very least, the master should be notified. As it stands, you don't know unless you explicitly look in your subjugated race's diplomacy list.

As a corollary, subjugated races shouldn't be able to declare war unless they get permission from their master - or at the very least, informing them. Again, the problem is the same as above.


Yes, that should harm relations, I mean when someone goes to war against a subjugated-by-other race as you say. When an AI does that to your subjugated race there is no much of problem however (you know, or at least you must check the diplo screen. I do that a lot BTW). If that happens between AI races they should get more angry with each other. Maybe they become, we just don't see it.

That's a complain I have right there. Currently we don't know what other races think of each other besides the normal Angry, War, Friendly modifiers. Perhaps an intelligence act could reveal those relations, I mean the ones between other empires. I felt that need once or twice. And I agree with you that there should be diplo warnings. "Race X declared war on race Y". So easy to do, so necessary.


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RE: Diplomacy in Legends!!! - 11/8/2011 4:56:19 AM   
Gelatinous Cube


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quote:

ORIGINAL: adamsolo


quote:

ORIGINAL: Kayoz

Currently, there's no repercussion for declaring war on someone else's subjugated race. That war is going to impact on the master's income, so at the very least, the master should be notified. As it stands, you don't know unless you explicitly look in your subjugated race's diplomacy list.

As a corollary, subjugated races shouldn't be able to declare war unless they get permission from their master - or at the very least, informing them. Again, the problem is the same as above.


Yes, that should harm relations, I mean when someone goes to war against a subjugated-by-other race as you say. When an AI does that to your subjugated race there is no much of problem however (you know, or at least you must check the diplo screen. I do that a lot BTW). If that happens between AI races they should get more angry with each other. Maybe they become, we just don't see it.

That's a complain I have right there. Currently we don't know what other races think of each other besides the normal Angry, War, Friendly modifiers. Perhaps an intelligence act could reveal those relations, I mean the ones between other empires. I felt that need once or twice. And I agree with you that there should be diplo warnings. "Race X declared war on race Y". So easy to do, so necessary.



Quoted for Truthiness. I approve this message.

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RE: Diplomacy in Legends!!! - 11/8/2011 9:24:03 AM   
Bingeling

 

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What is most interesting about notifications, is that if you let the AI run diplomacy, it does not notify you whenever war starts or ends.

So you may have a tense situation and suddenly lots of shooting starts in some mixed mining system. Lots of shooting. Why? Oh? We are at war?

And even more nasty. You are at war, and hunt their bases, fleets, whatnot. You approach their mining base, fire, and... The galaxy hate you. Because you are not at war anymore. It is kind of stressful to remember to check diplomacy screen before each attack.

And when that is fixed, it should be easy to add a message to the overlords at the same time...

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RE: Diplomacy in Legends!!! - 11/8/2011 11:34:56 AM   
ehsumrell1


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quote:

ORIGINAL: adamsolo


And I agree with you that there should be diplo warnings. "Race X declared war on race Y". So easy to do, so necessary.


Hello Adamsolo!

I'm not at liberty to fully elaborate at this time, but that feature is implemented in the upcoming Legends expansion.

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RE: Diplomacy in Legends!!! - 11/8/2011 11:52:17 AM   
J HG T


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@ehsumrell1

Well, that's great to hear! I'm guessing there's lot more notifications about various things added in Legends. Should be easier and more convenient to keep track of things in the galaxy.


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RE: Diplomacy in Legends!!! - 11/8/2011 2:56:07 PM   
adamsolo


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quote:

ORIGINAL: ehsumrell1


quote:

ORIGINAL: adamsolo


And I agree with you that there should be diplo warnings. "Race X declared war on race Y". So easy to do, so necessary.


Hello Adamsolo!

I'm not at liberty to fully elaborate at this time, but that feature is implemented in the upcoming Legends expansion.


Great! :) There could be other warnings besides war as well (that could be switched off if people don't like to bother) but at least the declare war warnings were much necessary. Good news.

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