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Distant Worlds: Legends Weapons... - 11/4/2011 1:48:05 AM   
Erik Rutins

 

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Ok, I'm overdue as far as posting more preview information and I've has some specific requests for information on the new weapon technologies. It's worth noting that this is one of the few areas of the game that we are still tweaking and the final expanded tech tree will be in the next beta build, so the screenshots I can show now are of the somewhat more minimal original tech tree.

First, the basics.

Rail guns are less accurate than most other direct fire weapons and also slower and tend to have a shorter range. However, they have a fairly quick rate of fire and have the unique ability to partially bypass shields. At the same time, they are more affected by the reactive component of armor than other direct fire weapons.

Phased Beams are beams of intensely focused directed energy that are more accurate than most other direct fire weapons and cause quite a bit of damage, but also consume quite a bit of energy. They have the unique ability that they are less affected by armor and have an easier time burning through it to damage other components than other direct fire weapons.

With that said, let's build a ship with both of these weapons and see how they look!

Regards,

- Erik

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RE: Distant Worlds: Legends Weapons... - 11/4/2011 2:48:29 AM   
Nedrear


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Well since a railgun is a electrically launched physical projectile it surely interacts with armor instead of energy shields in contrast to energy weapons more likely being dispersed by energetic counter shields than armor. The armor simply melts away though taking time...

A highly efficient rail gun would be a clear weapon of choice against larger flying shields but unprotected spacestations or ships as to break through their armor and destroy the shield generators and after that waste the station by plasma fire. Depending on the efficiency and balance between the guns my fleets must be well chosen as to make an armor worth its purchase. I want to create a monopoly on most steel and take my railgun to tell the Securan: "Buy or burn". Funny idea...

Can we get a fleet commander giving bonuses to efficiency of railguns or beam weapons?

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RE: Distant Worlds: Legends Weapons... - 11/4/2011 2:56:09 AM   
Erik Rutins

 

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Ok, sorry for the delay. So let's design a new Cruiser of the "Excelsior" class, with seven of our best Rail Guns and Phaser Cannons as its main weaponry.






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RE: Distant Worlds: Legends Weapons... - 11/4/2011 2:56:50 AM   
Erik Rutins

 

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We'll use a nearby pirate base as our weapons testing range. Let's head over there...






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RE: Distant Worlds: Legends Weapons... - 11/4/2011 2:57:46 AM   
Erik Rutins

 

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Rail guns are normally at a shorter range than the beams, but in this case the first screenshot I managed to grab showed the rail guns firing.






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RE: Distant Worlds: Legends Weapons... - 11/4/2011 2:58:25 AM   
Erik Rutins

 

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And now the phased beams connect...






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RE: Distant Worlds: Legends Weapons... - 11/4/2011 2:58:47 AM   
Erik Rutins

 

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It doesn't take long...






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RE: Distant Worlds: Legends Weapons... - 11/4/2011 2:59:16 AM   
Erik Rutins

 

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Until the predictable result.






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RE: Distant Worlds: Legends Weapons... - 11/4/2011 2:59:47 AM   
Erik Rutins

 

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Time for more of a challenge...






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RE: Distant Worlds: Legends Weapons... - 11/4/2011 3:02:11 AM   
Erik Rutins

 

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That should give you some idea of how Rail Guns and Phased Beams look and how they might be useful in your ship designs. In general, rail guns are great at dealing with shielded but less armored foes and phased beams vice versa. Each of these offers a new tool for your ship designs with some different options compared to the existing weapons.

As soon as I have the next build with the final tech tree, I'll post that for you all with the weapon stats as well.

Regards,

- Erik


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RE: Distant Worlds: Legends Weapons... - 11/4/2011 3:23:01 AM   
Erik Rutins

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Nedrear
Can we get a fleet commander giving bonuses to efficiency of railguns or beam weapons?


Admirals do not have weapon-specific abilities, with the exception of fighters, but they can improve things like targeting, countermeasures, weapon damage, weapon rate of fire, energy usage, etc.

Regards,

- Erik


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RE: Distant Worlds: Legends Weapons... - 11/4/2011 3:25:06 AM   
WoodMan


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Looks great, to be honest though when I hear railgun, I think visually of that blue spiral thing from Quake and that film with Arnie in it 

oh, and some nice shots of the new Dhayut stuff, good job


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RE: Distant Worlds: Legends Weapons... - 11/4/2011 4:29:20 AM   
Simulation01


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Very nice!  Thanks for posting this Erik!

I assume that there will be different color phaser beams and rail guns? Also, shouldn't there be more rail gun bullets in a line? I know this is a picture and it's hard to capture everything happening here, but what I was looking forward to with rail guns was an effect similar to what we all saw in Stargate Atlantis...with the stream of bullets we saw.


< Message edited by Simulation01 -- 11/4/2011 4:32:01 AM >


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RE: Distant Worlds: Legends Weapons... - 11/4/2011 5:56:09 AM   
Erik Rutins

 

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You just need more rail guns to have that "stream of depleted uranium" look. Let me see if I can get a screenshot of a purely rail gun equipped ship...

I realized that instead of waiting for the next build, I could also share with you the tech trees and stats for these in design form. After confirming with Elliot that there were no other planned changes in the final implementation, here's what you can expect from the final rail gun and phased beam tech trees (please excuse the rough look as this is taken from our design documents, it will look much better once I can show you an in-game screenshot from the next build):










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RE: Distant Worlds: Legends Weapons... - 11/4/2011 5:57:13 AM   
Erik Rutins

 

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Here's the tech tree:






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RE: Distant Worlds: Legends Weapons... - 11/4/2011 5:59:35 AM   
Erik Rutins

 

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One other interesting point to highlight is that both rail guns and phased beams do not lose damage over distance, so while rail guns are short range weapons and phased beams are not the longest range of the beam weapons, they hit just as hard at all ranges.

Regards,

- Erik

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RE: Distant Worlds: Legends Weapons... - 11/4/2011 5:59:56 AM   
Igard


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Simulation01

Very nice!  Thanks for posting this Erik!

I assume that there will be different color phaser beams and rail guns? Also, shouldn't there be more rail gun bullets in a line? I know this is a picture and it's hard to capture everything happening here, but what I was looking forward to with rail guns was an effect similar to what we all saw in Stargate Atlantis...with the stream of bullets we saw.



Sim, they look like they're going in a straight line to me.


Looks great! I'm really excited to begin experiments with some designs.

< Message edited by Igard -- 11/4/2011 6:00:16 AM >


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RE: Distant Worlds: Legends Weapons... - 11/4/2011 6:18:48 AM   
Erik Rutins

 

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Ok, here are two more combat shots and that will hopefully do it.






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RE: Distant Worlds: Legends Weapons... - 11/4/2011 6:19:35 AM   
Erik Rutins

 

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Another view of the Phasers...






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RE: Distant Worlds: Legends Weapons... - 11/4/2011 7:48:28 AM   
J HG T


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Looking great! Seems like rail guns can indeed be used for bombartment, albeit they do relatively small amount of bombing damage. Still, good to have alternatives. 
And the new Dhayuut ships look excellent too. Remind me of MOO2 for some reason. Not a bad thing at all.

@Woodman
"when I hear railgun, I think visually of that blue spiral thing from Quake"
Yeah, when I played it on LAN with my friends the railgun was almost banned. It was ludicrous in the hands of a skilled player. ULTRA KILL!


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RE: Distant Worlds: Legends Weapons... - 11/4/2011 7:50:29 AM   
Data


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Wohoo, Erik, keep it coming....don't ever stop

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RE: Distant Worlds: Legends Weapons... - 11/4/2011 9:23:42 AM   
HectorOfTroy


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Cool. I like them beans, esp not losing damage over range.

Rail gun looks good, but I guess at a range some of the projectiles will be missing, hence beams sound better (unless their damage is much lower then railgun one).

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RE: Distant Worlds: Legends Weapons... - 11/4/2011 9:53:30 AM   
Nedrear


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If it isn't in the mod yet, the phaser effect of the phased beam will surely find fans in the Star Trek mod.

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RE: Distant Worlds: Legends Weapons... - 11/4/2011 11:25:48 AM   
MadMcAl

 

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Hm, the phasers look like a fine addition to the weaponry. Sorry to say that but the other beams where IMO mostly useless until now.

But some other question, is it possible to propose weapons (maybe for space rangers)?

I for one have quite a few ideas, and would love to see them in a game...

Even if a few of them are a little bit overkill (Suncrusher? We no need this stinking sun crusher. All it can do is kill one system per shot...) .

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RE: Distant Worlds: Legends Weapons... - 11/4/2011 11:39:23 AM   
Nedrear


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While Distant World focused on many potential ways of science fiction a sun destroyer is far off in capacity. The planet destroyer is hard at the limit and needs a fricking huge amount of energy to rupture a planet core - I miss an asteroid field afterwards.
A sun destroyer either needs to accumulate pressure all around the star, thus instigating a black hole - unrealistic - or needs to inject an artificial black hole into a star feeding it, thus compressing a planet the size of the earth to a bean. Thats more unrealistic than a planet destroyer...
Other method, artificial supernovae. Forcing a star to quickly alter its matter to high fusion... I am not sure if Distant World plans a technique to "speed time" but I do not know ONE way to force a physical reaction not to take it's ****ing time! That's the whole problem with physical regeneration, a process always needs at least the time for the reaction to happen. Normally you add the time for the particles to meet up in the equation and by millions it wil lbecome quite some time. Add these to a fusion and well... hard making a nova.

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RE: Distant Worlds: Legends Weapons... - 11/4/2011 12:38:49 PM   
Shuul

 

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Honestly, i believe that we must have more verity in the late game. I will be happy to see Mass Driver as late game evolution of Rail gun.

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RE: Distant Worlds: Legends Weapons... - 11/4/2011 1:54:57 PM   
Nedrear


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You realize a mass driver is only a bigger version of a railgun and the name derives from civil project usage like a satellite starting plattform on the moon?

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RE: Distant Worlds: Legends Weapons... - 11/4/2011 2:45:13 PM   
MadMcAl

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Nedrear

You realize a mass driver is only a bigger version of a railgun and the name derives from civil project usage like a satellite starting plattform on the moon?


Not quite right. A mass driver is foremost a device to accelerate masses.
In special it is a proposed external drive system for interplanetary travels, and is based onto a coil- or gauss-gun (a relative of the railgun, but not the same).

In science fiction the meaning is for all purposes a ultra heavy slug thrower (rail gun, coil gun, grav gun or what ever), with a especially prominent example the modified Primus class battle cruisers the Centauri used to bombard Narn.
Technically a kinetic bombardment weapon.

I personally would prefer the grav driver variant (simpy you get a much higher acceleration out of it with a much higher speed resulting.

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RE: Distant Worlds: Legends Weapons... - 11/4/2011 3:11:25 PM   
Nedrear


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But you can't create artificial mass to accelerate anything... and protect your ship from it... We do not have Element Zero from Mass Effect to do so. Therefore a grav driver won't work. A gauss canon can achieve higher speed if the gun laying drive is large enough, which of course it isnt... in contrast to a transrapid train you are not on a rail from start to hit. And the realoding speed is bad as the magnetic field needs to be turned back AND needs to be outside the influence area of the first projectile. In contrast a railgun has a constant magnetic charge field, only waiting on a electrified bullet, sliding into the drive to get propelled. That thing can shot dozens a second.

As far as I know though, there are three ways of composing space weapons that work.

1) A energy wave weapon
2) A heat weapon
3) A high density projectile

Furthermore on the ground:

4) Shock weapons

Everything got a counter... apart of the first one and the last. The former got shields in DW.

1) A energy wave composed weapon creates a high and short radiation in a specific angle and thus doesn't damage the weapon itself by avaoiding contact alltogether or is a self synchronizing beam in a semipenetrateable mirror system (see laser basics) like our beam here and creates a constant stream of energy. Getting your high energy projectile radiation to stop without doing damage is impossible. Dispersing inside of energy fields seems practical, though energy consuming and hard. Armor will not survive that!

2) A heat weapon is composed of a matter cluster, heated to an extent, that it nearly vaporizes itself. This condition is called plasma as we know it. Getting in touch with it without a good "cooling" system - in this case a cryoreactive armor - would be pretty bad. The heat needs to be dispersed and absorped to avoid high temperature fluctuation. Therefore a cryoreactive armor would be something that is considered a quick conduit for temperatures, never allowing a high peak of self destructious heat. Apart of the damage it does to systems and armor it got a energy field in itself and is therefore victim to energy shields. Thus apart of the matter component involved it still gets diminished by anti-heat shields and energy shields alike, making it an allround weapon without benefit anywhere.
As ion weapons are energy absorbed matter particles they count to this hybrid class too, but dont interact with armor only shields.

3) A matter projectile, composed of metall to get charged by electricity like a railgun or a bigger version, is a good idea to penetrate armor, if designed to break it. Though the metall component allows for a slow diminish by electrical current shields, the high velocity of a small projectile, which time in the field of the energy shield is short, will not decrease tremendously and as such is nearly immune to shields. Since high density is a main factor for physical pen-shots using non metalls is out of the question. Therefore a little immunity by shields will always be granted never mind the technology you use. A metall slug in a grav driver would still be able to get influenced.

4) There are many more deadly weapons which can not be used in space. For once there would be a shock wave cannon. As all ships in space are composed of matter a landing troop ship should be able to be bombarded by high frequence shock wave cannons to destroy the ship. For example the planetary defense got a triangulated shock wave cannon system. They cross their shots as to not disrupt the enemy pushing them away in a wave, but utterly crush it inside all waves in all directions at once. Even high air pressure is deadly. Pressure weapons in water are simply genocide. Ask the fish after you bomb a lake. Now image droping a 'Zar' nuclear bomb 3km deep in the sea. You will find no live even 10 km outside the blast radius, all crushed by the shockwave of compressing water.

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RE: Distant Worlds: Legends Weapons... - 11/4/2011 4:30:20 PM   
Shuul

 

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Guys, its just a game, and not a simulator one. We do not need a realism here, but fun. Why not just to make one without all of this talking?

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