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Which Close Combat to start with? - 10/31/2011 6:30:56 AM   
Genghis Khan


Posts: 34
Joined: 10/18/2011
From: Alberta, Canada
Status: offline 		Howdy Folks:
I've been hunting around for a "Squad Level" tactical simulation and from everything I've looked at (and I've looked at a
lot of them), the "Close Combat" series would seem to be the best fit for what I'm interested in. The problem I'm having
is deciding which of the five "Close Combat" games to choose from. I think I'd prefer the "Real Time/Pausable" format,
so "Modern Tactics" and "Last Stand Arnhem" lose ground since they appear to be "Real Time" only (please correct me if I'm
wrong about this). So of the remaining three games: "Cross of Iron", "The Longest Day" and "Wacht am Rhein", which
would be the best to start with? And I say "start with" because if it's as good as I hope it is, I'll probably end up
getting the others as well.

Thanks for your input people.
Post #: 1
RE: Which Close Combat to start with? - 10/31/2011 6:58:55 AM   
Erik Rutins

 

Posts: 34723
Joined: 3/28/2000
From: Vermont, USA
Status: offline 		Hi Genghis,

All of them are pausable, so don't be concerned there. I would recommend starting with The Longest Day or Last Stand Arnhem, as those are the most recent and most improved, as long as you enjoy the subject matter.

Regards,

- Erik

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Post #: 2
RE: Which Close Combat to start with? - 10/31/2011 8:41:26 AM   
jomni


Posts: 2827
Joined: 11/19/2007
Status: offline 		Just a warning, Modern Tactics has not been patched and has little content at the moment.

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Post #: 3
RE: Which Close Combat to start with? - 10/31/2011 12:54:32 PM   
Perturabo


Posts: 2560
Joined: 11/17/2007
Status: offline 		Have you tried Armored Brigade?

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Post #: 4
RE: Which Close Combat to start with? - 10/31/2011 2:12:14 PM   
SLAAKMAN


Posts: 2810
Joined: 7/24/2002
Status: offline 		GK,
The best CC by far is CC3-The Russian Front & its re-release CC-Cross of Iron. There are more than a dozen mods for CC3 and hundreds of great maps its game mechanics are more concise than CC4 and CC5. We support it on;
http://www.closecombatseries.net/CCS/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewforum&f=5
Join us!


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Post #: 5
RE: Which Close Combat to start with? - 10/31/2011 2:15:27 PM   
Perturabo


Posts: 2560
Joined: 11/17/2007
Status: offline 		I agree about the Russian Front. The others have too much minigames and introduce Command & Conquer-style superweapons. Also, the sound effects.
Playing the CC3 demo was a mentally scarring experience when I was a teen.

< Message edited by Perturabo -- 10/31/2011 2:16:07 PM >

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People shouldn't ask themselves why schools get shoot up.
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Post #: 6
RE: Which Close Combat to start with? - 10/31/2011 2:22:33 PM   
SLAAKMAN


Posts: 2810
Joined: 7/24/2002
Status: offline 		Grab it!

http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=p5197.m570.l1313&_nkw=CLOSE+COMBAT+THE+RUSSIAN+FRONT&_sacat=See-All-Categories

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Post #: 7
RE: Which Close Combat to start with? - 10/31/2011 2:25:34 PM   
SLAAKMAN


Posts: 2810
Joined: 7/24/2002
Status: offline 		Grab it!
http://www.amazon.com/gp/offer-listing/B00001LDC9/ref=sr_1_1_olp?ie=UTF8&qid=1320067478&sr=8-1&condition=used

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Germany's unforgivable crime before the Second World War was her attempt to extricate her economy from the world's trading system and to create her own exchange mechanism which would deny world finance its opportunity to profit.
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Post #: 8
RE: Which Close Combat to start with? - 10/31/2011 2:30:33 PM   
Perturabo


Posts: 2560
Joined: 11/17/2007
Status: offline 		I find it funny how the several remaining boxed versions are less expensive than when they were released.

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Post #: 9
RE: Which Close Combat to start with? - 10/31/2011 2:55:01 PM   
SLAAKMAN


Posts: 2810
Joined: 7/24/2002
Status: offline 		(A stroke of good luck.) 

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Post #: 10
RE: Which Close Combat to start with? - 10/31/2011 9:06:18 PM   
Genghis Khan


Posts: 34
Joined: 10/18/2011
From: Alberta, Canada
Status: offline 		Thanks for your input people.

Well I'm glad to hear they're all pausable, but it does make my choice a little harder (Aww, too much to choose from, what a dreadful state of affairs.)
Anyway, I'll start with a basic question, then I give you some of my impressions of the various games, which you can verify, or tell me to put down the Crack Pipe.
My question is: do the CC games have a LOS tool to help players determine the LOS from various points on the play map? It may seem like a stupid question since it's
pretty much standard fair for any tactical/strategic simulation, but I've yet to see it referred to in any way, shape, or form, so I thought I should ask.

The impression I get from looking at the Ads for the various games, is that the map graphics for the newer games like "Modern Tactics", "Last Stand Arnhem", etc. seem
crisper, clearer and generally easier to distinguish elevation changes. From the aspect of a game being expandable, then the games designed around specific historical
operations like "Market Garden" (LSA), "Normandy" (TLD) and "The Battle of the Bulge" (WAR) would be the least expandable, while "Cross of Iron" encompassing such a large
territory, over a much longer time period, offers a great deal more in terms of expandability. The ultimate for expansion sets would, IMHO, be "Modern Tactics": no need
for historical maps and if it can get beyond "the U.S. against somebody", or "somebody against the U.S.", then all the nations of the world are potential player's and the
world atlas is your potential scenario map; talk about endless possibilities. I do hope they get MT patched up soon.

As for the older games, I've a kick ass Windows 7 gaming system sitting here, so newer (games) is better in my books; if Microsoft wants to claim it's backward compatible,
then they should have to supply the Aspirin for those of us who try to make it so.

Thanks again people.

(in reply to SLAAKMAN)
Post #: 11
RE: Which Close Combat to start with? - 10/31/2011 9:50:25 PM   
Perturabo


Posts: 2560
Joined: 11/17/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Genghis Khan

I do hope they get MT patched up soon.



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People shouldn't ask themselves why schools get shoot up.
They should ask themselves why people who finish schools burned out due to mobbing aren't receiving high enough compensations to not seek vengeance.

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Post #: 12
RE: Which Close Combat to start with? - 10/31/2011 10:15:27 PM   
Genghis Khan


Posts: 34
Joined: 10/18/2011
From: Alberta, Canada
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Perturabo

quote:

ORIGINAL: Genghis Khan

I do hope they get MT patched up soon.



Hey Perturabo:
I'm not sure if you're agreeing with me, or if "Modern Tactics" getting patched up soon is laughable.
Anyway, I had a look at "Armored Brigade" and it definitely caught my interest, especially the part about the Linux/OSX
port; being a Unix fan and user. Thanks for the heads up.

(in reply to Perturabo)
Post #: 13
RE: Which Close Combat to start with? - 10/31/2011 11:22:21 PM   
Perturabo


Posts: 2560
Joined: 11/17/2007
Status: offline 		Both. It could really use a patch - an upgrade to the CCM6 standard, a working AI, good weapon data and an additional mechanics for representations of modern weapons and armour, like various kinds of ATGMs, reactive and composite armour, etc. so that the promises given in the product description would be fulfilled. I doubt it's going to happen, though.

I moved from CC to Armored Brigade mainly because it has a heighmap mode, a line of sight tool, zooming in and out, lack of metagaming stuff like looking for tracers and spotting unit locations basing on bodies showing up after area attacks, an AI that can attack, fortifications, a clear distinction between RPGs and various types of ATGMs, flexible scale - ranging from a few platoons to a whole regiment, order and artillery delays are moddable and dependent on stuff like presence of radios and distance from HQ, mortars have realistic flight times and generally the support is much less like a Command & Conquer super weapon, etc.
The downside is that the map graphics aren't as crispy as in Close Combat and it isn't as bloody and there aren't screams of dying soldiers.

Recently, the author has added an implementation of heigh-maps and terrain maps besides randomly generated terrain and there are already some interesting map projects in progress:
http://www.armoredbrigade.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=287
http://www.armoredbrigade.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=308

I have already made several mods for it and published one of them. There's a lot of development going on all the time which makes it better and better almost every month.

< Message edited by Perturabo -- 10/31/2011 11:25:26 PM >

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People shouldn't ask themselves why schools get shoot up.
They should ask themselves why people who finish schools burned out due to mobbing aren't receiving high enough compensations to not seek vengeance.

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Post #: 14
RE: Which Close Combat to start with? - 10/31/2011 11:40:33 PM   
Lützow


Posts: 1517
Joined: 7/22/2008
From: Germany
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Genghis Khan

Thanks for your input people.


My question is: do the CC games have a LOS tool to help players determine the LOS from various points on the play map?


Well, you can track LOS from a unit to a particular point, but not from unmounted points to other points.


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RE: Which Close Combat to start with? - 10/31/2011 11:51:35 PM   
JudgeDredd


Posts: 8567
Joined: 11/14/2003
From: Scotland
Status: offline 		Genghis - where r u from in Alberta? I was stationed at Wainwright for a few months, often visiting Edmonton and it's fantastic under cover mall - that was a loooong time ago - 1989 as I recall. But I LOVED it there. So many friendly people.

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Post #: 16
RE: Which Close Combat to start with? - 11/1/2011 1:54:33 AM   
RD Oddball

 

Posts: 4836
Joined: 2/10/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Genghis Khan
My question is: do the CC games have a LOS tool to help players determine the LOS from various points on the play map? It may seem like a stupid question since it's
pretty much standard fair for any tactical/strategic simulation, but I've yet to see it referred to in any way, shape, or form, so I thought I should ask.


Yeah there's a good tool called CCTV or Close Combat Terrain Viewer that allows you to input map data then spin the resulting elevation map around to study the changes from a perspective view. Hoping I'm thinking of the right tool. Been years since I've used it.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Genghis Khan
The impression I get from looking at the Ads for the various games, is that the map graphics for the newer games like "Modern Tactics", "Last Stand Arnhem", etc. seem
crisper, clearer and generally easier to distinguish elevation changes. From the aspect of a game being expandable, then the games designed around specific historical
operations like "Market Garden" (LSA), "Normandy" (TLD) and "The Battle of the Bulge" (WAR) would be the least expandable, while "Cross of Iron" encompassing such a large
territory, over a much longer time period, offers a great deal more in terms of expandability.


All versions of the game are equally expandable as the next. If you're talking about doing the minimal work possible for the biggest effect then I'd say your statement is more accurate than not and essentially applies to any game that has a theme. I tend to be a DIY guy so when I look at how much access we've given to the game function via the text files it's highly moddable and a vast array of possibilities exist with a little bit of creativity. LSA has the broadest feature set so IMO that'd be my recommendation of the title to get.

An update plan for CCMT has been discussed but no definite plans have been scheduled. So it's on the radar and where it is to be fit into the schedule just needs to be decided for us. We'll certainly pass along any definite plans as they're known.

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Post #: 17
RE: Which Close Combat to start with? - 11/1/2011 4:34:30 AM   
Andrew Williams


Posts: 6116
Joined: 1/8/2001
From: Australia
Status: offline 		Check here for various mods available for the series.

http://closecombat.matrixgames.com/


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Post #: 18
RE: Which Close Combat to start with? - 11/2/2011 6:51:16 AM   
Genghis Khan


Posts: 34
Joined: 10/18/2011
From: Alberta, Canada
Status: offline 		Thanks Lutzow, I guess a LOS tool is a bit of a cheat anyway, realistically you gotta get a pair of boots on the ground
to see what you can see, right.

Hey JD:
Yup, Edmonton would be my hometown, the place with the "Big Maul"...I mean Mall. I take it you were here on
Exercise with the BAF? If that was in 89, then the "Big Maul" is about twice as big now. If you're a comparison
shopper with masochistic tendencies, it's a dream come true.

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Post #: 19
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