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RE: JEcon 101 setup pre-final Doc

 
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RE: JEcon 101 setup pre-final Doc - 7/17/2015 11:11:49 AM   
n01487477


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I notice this is too far down in the War Room (in my humble opinion) and I know it has been a while since I've been here but if el lobo P.M's me I'll make arrangements for the files.

Cheers

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Post #: 211
RE: JEcon 101 setup pre-final Doc - 7/17/2015 2:09:44 PM   
Lecivius


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Good Grief, Ive been thinking of going to the darkside & been looking for this thread for days and here it is!

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Post #: 212
RE: JEcon 101 setup pre-final Doc - 12/2/2016 12:52:27 PM   
n01487477


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Bump for posterity

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Post #: 213
RE: JEcon 101 setup pre-final Doc - 12/3/2016 12:15:43 AM   
PaxMondo


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Nice to see you again!


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Pax

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Post #: 214
RE: JEcon 101 setup pre-final Doc - 5/2/2017 3:28:47 PM   
sajm0n

 

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Does anyone have this document somewhere? Links to dropbox in post 1 dont work :(

< Message edited by sajm0n -- 5/2/2017 3:30:03 PM >

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Post #: 215
RE: JEcon 101 setup pre-final Doc - 5/3/2017 1:31:48 PM   
n01487477


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quote:

ORIGINAL: sajm0n

Does anyone have this document somewhere? Links to dropbox in post 1 dont work :(

I updated the links as dropbox made some changes recently.

Cheers

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Post #: 216
RE: JEcon 101 setup pre-final Doc - 5/5/2017 10:20:02 PM   
rustysi


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Whew, I have a hard copy somewhere, but its always easiest to just get it here.

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Post #: 217
RE: JEcon 101 setup pre-final Doc - 8/27/2017 11:13:38 PM   
MakeeLearn


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Good stuff. To the front.

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Post #: 218
RE: Japan Econ 101 setup Draft Doc - 9/25/2017 3:44:39 AM   
Timotheus

 

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Bump.

holy crap, someone should collect all this **** into 1 ****ing post. This doc and many other posts have info indispensable to playing this game but it is all over this forum.

I think I'll do it, it is super aggravating trawling the forum for gold nuggets.

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Post #: 219
RE: Japan Econ 101 setup Draft Doc - 9/25/2017 2:23:52 PM   
Skyros


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You need to check this link out Timotheus.

http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/fb.asp?m=2260137


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Post #: 220
RE: Japan Econ 101 setup Draft Doc - 12/12/2017 7:16:15 PM   
morphin

 

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Damian
Can you update the dropbox links in the first post please?
That would be very helpful

Thank's
Andy

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Post #: 221
RE: Japan Econ 101 setup Draft Doc - 12/20/2017 9:51:11 AM   
n01487477


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quote:

ORIGINAL: morphin

Damian
Can you update the dropbox links in the first post please?
That would be very helpful

Thank's
Andy

Thanks Andy - I assume you mean the 2 savefiles. I've updated the links now.

Cheers


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Post #: 222
RE: Japan Econ 101 setup Draft Doc - 1/30/2018 4:55:29 PM   
nashvillen


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Had to look too far down the list for this, bump.

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Post #: 223
RE: Japan Econ 101 setup Draft Doc - 8/8/2018 2:32:59 AM   
dasboot1960


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Thank You! (and I haven't even looked at it). I have used Kull's spreadsheet as a starting guide (Thank You!) which I found especially helpful for China, although impatience has cost me a couple VPs. Too late tonight to get into this, but thanks to all who support this magnificent game!

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Post #: 224
RE: Japan Econ 101 setup Draft Doc - 6/17/2019 5:57:04 AM   
jdsrae


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Bump, Damian’s econ 101 doc is what helped get me started playing as Japan

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Currently playing my first PBEM, no house rules Scenario 1 as IJ.
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Post #: 225
RE: Japan Econ 101 setup Draft Doc - 10/12/2020 12:53:03 PM   
n01487477


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Thanks for the bump jdsrae ;-) Been a while since I've been on these forums but I hope the doc I made in the past still rings true.

Cheers

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Post #: 226
RE: Japan Econ 101 setup Draft Doc - 2/4/2021 5:42:54 PM   
Cohen_slith

 

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Is there a simpler approach with less math involved to begin with and more basic 'how to do things and get things done'?

I've started to read the thing, kind of got lost with all the math, and I've quite basic questions that are not even answered or covered there.

First 'easy' question:
Does my economy includes conquered locations? Does it retain the same efficiency? (A Japan HI consumes and produces the same as a Korea or Manchuria located HI point, or the same as a China or Rangoon located HI)?

Second 'easy' question:
Does make sense to build (expand?) HIs and other factories that are closer to Resources and Fuel? (ie. Manchuria for instance - assuming they work at same efficiency)

A more 'mathy' question could be:
Does it make more sense to expand HI in Sapporo or in let's say Tokyo? Or to dump there LI?
(The rationale, after having read your documents, is that around Sapporo there are an amount of resources already, and HI requires small amount of fuel that requires to get there. It is more efficient a longer oil / fuel route for that amount, or to ship resources to Japan?)

Ulterior 'mathy' question could be:
Should I expand LI or HI? Or neither? Which is better?
The 'feeding' formula was explained, but it's simpler to say 'It is more efficient to build THIS ... eventually as long as THAT premise is kept' (Example: HI are more efficient, but they require fuel too. LI can still give you supplies even when late war Japan is surrounded by USA aereonaval assets').

Hook a gamer first, go in detail later with some 'advanced guide'.
Ironically enough, what you defined 'for advancer gamers' is explained in a simpler fashion than all the previous work.

Thanks nonetheless! I know more of the game, but I am still a headless chicken about production and lack clarity of first steps about what I should do here.

ADDENDA:
Trying to follow the step by step thing - but for instance I cannot bring to 40 the Veichle factories. If I expand them, it -automatically- adds a batch of the same number. So a 12 Veic.Fact set to expand will necessarily add other 12. No less, no more. And then if I click again, they'll add other 24.
Am I missing something?

< Message edited by Cohen_slith -- 2/4/2021 6:13:13 PM >

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Post #: 227
RE: Japan Econ 101 setup Draft Doc - 2/4/2021 6:44:08 PM   
Ambassador

 

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From: Brussels, Belgium
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Cohen_slith

Is there a simpler approach with less math involved to begin with and more basic 'how to do things and get things done'?

I've started to read the thing, kind of got lost with all the math, and I've quite basic questions that are not even answered or covered there.

First 'easy' question:
Does my economy includes conquered locations? Does it retain the same efficiency? (A Japan HI consumes and produces the same as a Korea or Manchuria located HI point, or the same as a China or Rangoon located HI)?

Captured industry get halved, but otherwise HI is HI is HI : it’ll require the same ressources, whether it’s in Tokyo, Seoul, Batavia or Petaouchnok.


quote:

Second 'easy' question:
Does make sense to build (expand?) HIs and other factories that are closer to Resources and Fuel? (ie. Manchuria for instance - assuming they work at same efficiency)

From a logistical and industrial point of view, yes. Ressources have to be hauled, and this costs fuel, more or less depending on the efficiency of the TK/xAK (as in fuel consumed per hex travelled per given load of fuel/ressources).
From a strategic point of view, it depends. Fuel has to be brought to Japan, supplies have to be brought to the front lines, so producing that supply closer to the front limits the fuel consumption to haul both the fuel and the supply.

But ! (There’s always a « but » in this game) this will also bring the HI closer to the front line, and they’ll be vulnerable to attacks. Some HI in Java may be useful, but if the Allies come bombing it and damage or destroy it, it’s gone.


quote:

A more 'mathy' question could be:
Does it make more sense to expand HI in Sapporo or in let's say Tokyo? Or to dump there LI?
(The rationale, after having read your documents, is that around Sapporo there are an amount of resources already, and HI requires small amount of fuel that requires to get there. It is more efficient a longer oil / fuel route for that amount, or to ship resources to Japan?)

You need 2 fuel but 20 ressources to make a HI work. A 6000-capacity TK transports enough to ensure 100 days of operation for a size 30 HI plant. In contrast, a 6000-capacity xAK assigned to transport ressources only brings enough for 10 days of operation. The difference is that bringing the ressources from Hokkaido is a short hop between two bases, while the fuel has to be brought much further (I’m not a specialist of Japan, but I found I had a hard time bringing enough fuel at the tip of Honshu - forgot the name of that base - to push it to Hokkaido).


quote:

Ulterior 'mathy' question could be:
Should I expand LI or HI? Or neither? Which is better?
The 'feeding' formula was explained, but it's simpler to say 'It is more efficient to build THIS ... eventually as long as THAT premise is kept' (Example: HI are more efficient, but they require fuel too. LI can still give you supplies even when late war Japan is surrounded by USA aereonaval assets').

Think in terms of return on investment.
A LI requires only 15 ressources, but only gives 1 supply point. As you need 100 supplies to create the LI, and 1000 to « repair » it to functional state, the initial cost is 1.100 supplies - you need it to operate for 1.100 days in order to profit from the expansion, or around three years. IOW, expand an LI at game start, and you get slightly more supplies starting mid-December ‘44.
In contrast, HI requires 20 ressources and 2 fuel, but gives 2 supply points (and 2 HI points). Your investment in supply to create & repair the plant is recovered in 550 days, or one and a half year - IOW, expansion in December ‘41 gives a benefit in June ‘43.

So, as long as you have enough fuel, expanding HI is more useful.

Now, what about surplus ressources once you’re confident you’ve expanded your HI as much as you can afford given your Oil/Fuel sources ? Remember the strategic point above : location and susceptibility to enemy attacks. An LI that you’re confident won’t be damaged by the Allies before ‘45, can give you an advantage. But, unless your enemy is incompetent, Japan will be undergoing a continuous bombing campaign by then, and other parts of the empire may be under threat way earlier, so LI might only be safe in Manchukuo. And even so, as you need to bring 1.100 supplies somewhere to create that LI, very early in the game (when your fleet is under hard pressure to invade everywhere), it brings you a mere 30 supplies per month, 365 supplies for the whole of 1945.


quote:

Hook a gamer first, go in detail later with some 'advanced guide'.
Ironically enough, what you defined 'for advancer gamers' is explained in a simpler fashion than all the previous work.

Thanks nonetheless! I know more of the game, but I am still a headless chicken about production and lack clarity of first steps about what I should do here.

ADDENDA:
Trying to follow the step by step thing - but for instance I cannot bring to 40 the Veichle factories. If I expand them, it -automatically- adds a batch of the same number. So a 12 Veic.Fact set to expand will necessarily add other 12. No less, no more. And then if I click again, they'll add other 24.
Am I missing something?

Don’t expand the industry from the base/city screen, but from the general industry screen.

(in reply to Cohen_slith)
Post #: 228
RE: Japan Econ 101 setup Draft Doc - 2/4/2021 6:51:21 PM   
Cohen_slith

 

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Thanks for the answers - I'll exploit the situation to ask more as I tinkered some more.

Captured Industry is halved. Okay.
Does let's say Canton shows already a 'halved' capacity?
Will the visual show half in general (Let's say Hong Kong has 50 shipyards, I capture it. Will I see 50 on the tooltip and I know only 25 works, or I shall directly see 25 as tooltip?)
Is this also worth for Resources and Oil?

On the Industry Screen, I am apparently unable to command expansion of factories. I can have them stop producing and eventually stop expanding, if they're expanding.

Is Production Monthly or Daily? (In terms of Supply Points, etc)

< Message edited by Cohen_slith -- 2/4/2021 8:05:48 PM >

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Post #: 229
RE: Japan Econ 101 setup Draft Doc - 2/4/2021 8:09:15 PM   
GetAssista

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Cohen_slith
Thanks for the answers - I'll exploit the situation to ask more as I tinkered some more.

Judging by the questions I'd advice you to exploit the situation by reading the manual first, the industry section. Cause as much as people here are willing to help newcomers they expect you to do some due diligence first and clear the obvious stuff for yourself.

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Post #: 230
RE: Japan Econ 101 setup Draft Doc - 2/4/2021 8:19:21 PM   
Cohen_slith

 

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Honest answer! I was trying to get away by watching tutorials and the like - thanks nonetheless! (Tbh I gave the same answer to newbies of other games I regularly play so I feel you there!)

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Post #: 231
RE: Japan Econ 101 setup Draft Doc - 2/4/2021 9:36:52 PM   
n01487477


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Cohen_slith

Is there a simpler approach with less math involved to begin with and more basic 'how to do things and get things done'?
[snip]


Hi Cohen - I think Ambassador has answered all your questions here. I'm sorry I didn't organise this doc as well as it should have been, it was my hot take done a long time ago. There are other guides from Kull and Numbdydar's http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=3329605 ...
many links can be found here https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=2576157

Logistics are the core of playing the IJ, there really aren't any shortcuts to knowing it, but a myriad of ways to do it.
Good luck

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Post #: 232
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