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RE: South of the Border, West of the Sun - obvert (J) vs Dan Nichols (A)

 
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RE: South of the Border, West of the Sun - obvert (J) v... - 10/26/2011 6:56:39 PM   
obvert


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quote:

quote:

ORIGINAL: obvert

quote:

quote:

Good job capturing Palembang undamaged and so early. Too bad your opponent is taking advantage of this early move to bomb the oil facilities. I wouldn't bother with night fighters. I have yet to see even dedicated night fighters like the P-61 Blackwidow have any real effect on night intruders. Your zeroes would be more effective sweeping the dutch airbases and have them followed up by every bomber you can find on airfield attack missions.

-Jzanes



quote:

Thanks. I had no experience with this, and so I'm experimenting. I find I do get some hits on the bombers at night, and I had heard that it disrupts their accuracy. I don't think I'll experiment with taking the night CAP off completely in case they are helping the Dutch bomb sighters miss a bit, and as they are hitting some. In two turns I've damaged 10 and shot down one with one seemingly lost on ops. It doesn't help that the moon is about 90% right now.



My experience is that early in the war any fighter on night CAP will help against night bombing. However, later in the war with high exp bomber pilots in 4E's ... nothing works that well. They will bore in on their attack in spite of losses and flak ....

-Pax Mondo


In 3 nights of bombing the Dutch have managed to get 97 points of damage to the Oil! It is bright moonlight, but this seems odd considering they are getting harassed by an at least equal number of zeros. It's annoying, but by the time I really want to pull oil out of here, there will be plenty built up I'm sure.

I'm not looking forward to 100 4Es hitting this later in the war if this is what 35 B-10s can do now! But at least the door on night bombing is wide open, and I will be doing some experimenting with it as well a bit later.

< Message edited by obvert -- 10/26/2011 6:58:03 PM >

(in reply to obvert)
Post #: 91
RE: South of the Border, West of the Sun - obvert (J) v... - 10/26/2011 7:03:54 PM   
Erkki


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quote:

ORIGINAL: obvert

quote:

quote:

ORIGINAL: obvert

quote:

quote:

Good job capturing Palembang undamaged and so early. Too bad your opponent is taking advantage of this early move to bomb the oil facilities. I wouldn't bother with night fighters. I have yet to see even dedicated night fighters like the P-61 Blackwidow have any real effect on night intruders. Your zeroes would be more effective sweeping the dutch airbases and have them followed up by every bomber you can find on airfield attack missions.

-Jzanes



quote:

Thanks. I had no experience with this, and so I'm experimenting. I find I do get some hits on the bombers at night, and I had heard that it disrupts their accuracy. I don't think I'll experiment with taking the night CAP off completely in case they are helping the Dutch bomb sighters miss a bit, and as they are hitting some. In two turns I've damaged 10 and shot down one with one seemingly lost on ops. It doesn't help that the moon is about 90% right now.



My experience is that early in the war any fighter on night CAP will help against night bombing. However, later in the war with high exp bomber pilots in 4E's ... nothing works that well. They will bore in on their attack in spite of losses and flak ....

-Pax Mondo


In 3 nights of bombing the Dutch have managed to get 97 points of damage to the Oil! It is bright moonlight, but this seems odd considering they are getting harassed by an at least equal number of zeros. It's annoying, but by the time I really want to pull oil out of here, there will be plenty built up I'm sure.

I'm not looking forward to 100 4Es hitting this later in the war if this is what 35 B-10s can do now! But at least the door on night bombing is wide open, and I will be doing some experimenting with it as well a bit later.


Your opponent is clearly asking for a 200-Netty 1,000ft night raid on his nearly undefended fields at Soerebaja and Batavia...

After that he might ask you for a HR limiting night flying a little. You can tell in the email that you're looking to deploy thousands of night kamikazes in 1944.

_____________________________


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Post #: 92
RE: South of the Border, West of the Sun - obvert (J) v... - 10/26/2011 7:04:18 PM   
Jzanes

 

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Do you know where the allied 4Es are now? By now, the allies could've concentrated their heavy bombers and I wouldn't be surprised to see them hit Palembang anytime now. Do you guys have any HRs restricting night bombing? It's probably not universal but I think many players (including me) feel that night bombing is too strong and needs some sort of restriction.

(in reply to obvert)
Post #: 93
RE: South of the Border, West of the Sun - obvert (J) v... - 10/26/2011 7:17:04 PM   
obvert


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quote:

Your opponent is clearly asking for a 200-Netty 1,000ft night raid on his nearly undefended fields at Soerebaja and Batavia...

After that he might ask you for a HR limiting night flying a little. You can tell in the email that you're looking to deploy thousands of night kamikazes in 1944.


Exactly! At this point I'm thinking I'll get more done by day just because then I might also get a crack at his CAP, if there is some. Plus the bombers I'd like to disperse with are out at night having a party in my backyard and pissing in the pool. I'll save that raid for 43 when there are some 4Es to hit! I believe in this game he's withdrawn them all after I hit Cagayan with a big raid to stop him night bombing Miri with them.

If I can make night kamis hit anything, this gives me every reason to try them without guilt!

(in reply to Jzanes)
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RE: South of the Border, West of the Sun - obvert (J) v... - 10/26/2011 7:22:26 PM   
obvert


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quote:

Do you know where the allied 4Es are now? By now, the allies could've concentrated their heavy bombers and I wouldn't be surprised to see them hit Palembang anytime now. Do you guys have any HRs restricting night bombing? It's probably not universal but I think many players (including me) feel that night bombing is too strong and needs some sort of restriction.


As above, I think they are long gone. He was not hesitant to use them before, and I haven't seen any raids in almost two weeks.

No night restrictions. I am leaning toward just going with it and trying out my own version of this when I really might need it. I read a bit by Nemo about wiping Allied fields in 43-45 by massive night bombing runs by IJA bombers at 1,000 ft with raw pilots that would completely shut down the airfield, so I'd like to keep something in my back pocket for later. If it gets ridiculous at some point and every attack is massed night bombing, well, then maybe I'd consider a request for an HR.

< Message edited by obvert -- 10/26/2011 9:44:27 PM >

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RE: South of the Border, West of the Sun - obvert (J) v... - 10/26/2011 9:41:42 PM   
obvert


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Supply Route: It appears some things at least are moving into the deep South Pacific. I'm not sure what route they are taking yet, but I camped a sub near Tahiti and look what I found. Of course we didn't shoot at it yet. How can this sub commander pass up 6 APs guarded by one DD?

I'm getting a very small raiding group together with CL Katori and 2 DDs. This CL is very slow, 18 knots, but has a plane, good endurance and it's sitting at Kwajalein doing nothing. I'll take them down past Canton to refuel, then on to the gap between Penrhyn and Manihiki toward Tahiti. More subs are on the way as well.








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RE: South of the Border, West of the Sun - obvert (J) v... - 10/26/2011 11:37:24 PM   
obvert


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Air Losses - 3 Jan 1942

Here is a look at today's air losses and the Air to Air losses for the campaign. As you can see we've flown many more sorties than the Allies, and so ops losses are much higher.

I kept wondering where the Wildebeests and Swordfish were until looking here and realizing we got most of the available torpedo bombers early during the Malasian invasion. There can't be many Buffalo left in the pools either. Many of the P-40 losses were in the PI until he pulled out (withdrew I think) all of the fighters. Two of the three sections o the AVG remain unseen so far. The one that went to China hasn't fared well.

Now for the Dutch.






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RE: South of the Border, West of the Sun - obvert (J) v... - 10/27/2011 10:30:11 PM   
obvert


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email failure:No turn today as an email I sent that is listed as sent was never received by my opponent. Very strange. I wonder whose account doesn't like AE?
This will give me a chance to gather myself and assess both the current situation and the future plans of the Japanese Empire.

Current Status:It seems that after a first shock of losing some valuable naval assets our forces have dug in and shown their mettle by quickly adapting to take most of the first objectives in the DEI, in China and in the Pacific without any more major setbacks. This has been helped by the Allies continued withdrawl from key areas before they've lost fighting capability and equipment, and the strategy which seems in play throughout the map of pulling back to a further line of defense and beginning to build there in preparation for future attacks.

Goals for the next month of continued expansion are listed a few posts back on 1 Jan I believe. Maps will be available tomorrow.

Expansion Strategy after SRA:

Now I'd like to ponder the next steps after the SRA and first Pacific Expansions have finished.

We're devising one prospective plan for an invasion before the deadline expires, assuming Java, Singapore and the PI are well in hand by then and no major crisis is looming.

---------------------------

Ceylon

Strategic Reasoning:

1. Deny the Allies a close support base for naval use and logistical support.

2. Attrit Allied air power where it is weakest in 42, among the British units.

3. Create a focus in this sector to draw forces and materials away from the support of China, which is the real strategic goal.

4. Create the impression that a Japanese invasion of India may be imminent and force my opponent to prepare for this eventuality by bringing in US forces and other support troops and air power that could otherwise be used in Australia, the Solomons, and in China.

5. Attract and learn to deal with the threats of Allied 4E attacks in a theatre of little importance before the masses of them appear in 43. I'm sure he'll be making some more night attacks here with 4Es. I'd rather have them be in Ceylon than in China or the Solomons.

Tactical thoughts:

1. The first step in this process would be to attempt to recon every base on Ceylon using Mavis from Port Blair and Glens from subs. If a fleet is present, which I highly doubt, there would be an attempt to sneak up on it with the KB after a feignt toward OZ.

2. Step two would be to invade the islands of Deigo Garcia and Addu, leaving some air support, a decent garrison, and search planes, most likely Jakes. Between these islands and the planes from Sumatran bases, there would be a narrow window for ship movement through this area. Hopefully in light of step 3 this would appear to be a diversion.

3. Invade northern OZ and give every indication this is a massive undertaking that would not stop there. Prep multiple units for Perth and begin to move units arriving toward their South Pacific destinations with an Aussie prep. I have units in Manchuria prepping now for every major base in every theatre including Anchorage, Pearl, Calcutta, Brisbane, Perth, Auckland, and Colombo. If the reports are going through, my opponent must know some subterfuge with destination preps is happening. The first division removed from Manchuria would be prepped for Perth but sent eventually elsewhere. Several divisions in Manchuria and the HI would have prep changed to OZ.

4. Before the window closes a massive invasion (4-5 divisions and support)supported by the KB (the mini-KB would move to the South Pacific) would take Ceylon quickly using troops from Malaya. Only a few smaller units would be prepped for the landing point. The convoy heading to Ceylon would be routed to Perth but have Ceylon as a waypoint, and change to the landing destination only once it's detected (I think this is possible, but haven't worked it out yet, but I have a test game head to head on now to work on some things like this). Obviously, long-legged ships would be needed, and separate surface and ASW would follow with it.

5. Most large ground units would be removed after the invasion with prep destinations in North India. They will head back to Burma. This will only create a momentary confusion as to destination, but if noticed it should change some reactions.

6. Bombing campaigns against southern India would commence and massive IJA fighter sweeps would come in from Burma and Ceylon to every available airbase target to render British air power useless. The replacement rates are low enough that the main issue will most likely be good AAA, although I know the Hurricane is tough in a defensive role especially. The KB and some other naval presence will stay in the area or close by to keep up the appearance something else will happen unless a major counter is occurring in the Pacific. (Most IJN LBA will be diverted to the Solomons and the Gilberts during this time to stave off any CV raids). Nicks would be brought in to try out against 4Es, and once the initial push has finished we will sit back and take attacks most likely, trying to conserve pilots over our own bases. One HQa Flot would be brought in for torp capability, with at least one large group of Netties and some A6Ms for long distance escort.

7. All Ceylon landing points will be heavily enough garrisoned by appearances, but will not use the better troops. Numbers could be high using garrison battalions, etc, instead of divisions. Some engineers would move in to build forts obviously, probably the 15 AV ones with about 48 engineers each. Once acceptable levels are reached these would be pulled out. The main hope is to keep the island as an advanced recon base and general distraction into mid-43. By this time hopefully the full weight of Japanese land power will have made some deep thrusts into China and the supply will have reached a critical point there. It seems any invasion would have to take out Addu and Diego as well to shore up the flank and reduce search capability, so I assume we would have time for more evacs once that has begun. Of course now that units can be bought back it's not quite as critical to get it all out, but I'd like to avoid having to rebuild over a 1000 AV of troops plus support.

8. If all goes to plan, I'd like to have Chunking in hand by mid-43. I'm not sure this is possible with a determined opponent, but that is the reason for this venture. If I can focus his attention elsewhere, maybe our troops can push through the first level of defenses and start movement in his lines. A good number of IJA MB and fighters would remain in China to maintain air superiority, and some IJN MB might remain in the area as well while there is a large presence of IJA in Ceylon.

I would welcome ANY thoughts about any of this.

< Message edited by obvert -- 10/27/2011 10:42:35 PM >

(in reply to obvert)
Post #: 98
RE: South of the Border, West of the Sun - obvert (J) v... - 10/27/2011 10:57:26 PM   
PaxMondo


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Dang, lost another long, eloquent reply.

OK, the short version.

1. Great news that you can take CHI out of the game. BANZAI!

2. Ceylon: beware of traps. Allied players have 6 -12 months to prep for losing this, and they know (particularly in Scen 2) that they cannot hold it against IJ. They also know that to take it, you MUST commit the KB. Options available are everything from complete withdrawal on his part to MAJOR flak trap to naval ambush. Think everything through carefully from his perspective.

3. If you keep your KB exposed in the Indian Ocean, he should react in other places. Be ready for that. You are +10 days from either the Artic or Central Pacific. That's a long time and he can cause a lot of mischief in that time if he is ready for you.

Finally, remember that Port Blair is a long way from Ceylon and NavSearch degrades significantly with distance.

Good Luck!!!

< Message edited by PaxMondo -- 10/27/2011 11:01:08 PM >


_____________________________

Pax

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RE: South of the Border, West of the Sun - obvert (J) v... - 10/27/2011 11:05:59 PM   
Jzanes

 

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Sounds like a good plan for taking Ceylon. The key is to do it sooner rather than later. By May-June the allies will have had time to form up some real strongpoints and Ceylon could be a tough nut to take if your opponent has chosen it for heavy reinforcement. A few random thoughts;

1. careful with recon. if you recon everything that far away too often, it will alert your opponent that something is up. I'd say recon it every once in a while while also flying recon over all kinds of far away targets.
2. I don't think your feint towards northern australia will do much. It's a well known counterintelligence tactic for the japanese player to prep for all kinds of targets he doesn't really intend to hit. Most japanese players end up taking Darwin to Exmouth anyways and most allied players are willing to concede this ground without much of a fight.
3. i wouldn't anticipate that bombing from ceylon will do you much good or attrit the allied airforce very much. what it will do is force them to garrison all the key points on the coast and to have to recapture Ceylon before they move on to landings in Sumatra/Burma/Malaya. Therefore, I'd leave enough air and ground power to keep any allied landing honest. The british carrier and amphibious fleet is weak for a long long time and any move on ceylon would require borrowing ships from the USN.
4. if you move quickly, what i think would be even better would be to capture Ceylon AND Perth. The Perth area is basically a big island IF you capture that little base (i forget it's name) that's at the end of the railroad from the rest of Australia. Grabbing this region would stop the allies from moving into the Indian ocean from either direction without capturing the japanese held citadels on the "shoulders". Again you have to move fast. The startup australian force in the Perth region is weak but can be made very strong if you give them enough time.
5. be careful with dividing your carrier power. the mini-KB is easy meat for the USN carriers if caught without the big KB carriers. I'd say keep all your carriers together or be very very careful how you use mini-KB when it's on it's own.

I'd love to hear about your plan for getting to Chungking. That's no small op for sure. I forget but are you playing scenario 1 or 2? (I'll check the first post after posting this and answer my own question)

ps. ahh ok, scenario 2. so you got more toys to play with.

< Message edited by Jzanes -- 10/27/2011 11:10:05 PM >

(in reply to obvert)
Post #: 100
RE: South of the Border, West of the Sun - obvert (J) v... - 10/28/2011 12:10:51 AM   
obvert


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quote:

1. careful with recon. if you recon everything that far away too often, it will alert your opponent that something is up. I'd say recon it every once in a while while also flying recon over all kinds of far away targets


I'll definitely be changing recon around the Indian areas I can reach. I'll take a Glen to Bombay and Karachi if possible as well.

quote:

3. i wouldn't anticipate that bombing from ceylon will do you much good or attrit the allied airforce very much. what it will do is force them to garrison all the key points on the coast and to have to recapture Ceylon before they move on to landings in Sumatra/Burma/Malaya. Therefore, I'd leave enough air and ground power to keep any allied landing honest. The british carrier and amphibious fleet is weak for a long long time and any move on ceylon would require borrowing ships from the USN.


I will try to keep up the appearance of moving farther into India, thus lots of air activity. After that I believe my opponent will see I'm not going anywhere and want to soften the place up for eventual invasion. If this happens it will divert air power from China and also allow me to defend over my own bases. We'll see, but that's the idea. I will definitely want the place to be built up enough as to require some planning and major effort to take back.

quote:

4. if you move quickly, what i think would be even better would be to capture Ceylon AND Perth. The Perth area is basically a big island IF you capture that little base (i forget it's name) that's at the end of the railroad from the rest of Australia. Grabbing this region would stop the allies from moving into the Indian ocean from either direction without capturing the japanese held citadels on the "shoulders". Again you have to move fast. The startup australian force in the Perth region is weak but can be made very strong if you give them enough time.


Perth is on the list of possibilities, but my hunch is that it's a big part of my opponent's pattern of falling back to a defendable line. Iff he's already bringing troops here it will be tough to take. I'll have a look in the next month though.

quote:

5. be careful with dividing your carrier power. the mini-KB is easy meat for the USN carriers if caught without the big KB carriers. I'd say keep all your carriers together or be very very careful how you use mini-KB when it's on it's own.


The mini-KB will try to move to the area unseen and remain a force to hit any unguarded surface forces, always protected by LBA as well. It won't venture out alone. The Shoho will join it soon. It could also venture into the N PAC if his CVs are known to be far away from there.

quote:

I'd love to hear about your plan for getting to Chungking. That's no small op for sure. I forget but are you playing scenario 1 or 2? (I'll check the first post after posting this and answer my own question)


Yeah, I'm not sure I have aplan for that yet. I need to feel around and understand what areas the Chinese are building up a bit first. Now N China and the far north are the focus. Heading for Lanchow and Urumchi. Cleaning out everything in the clear, which he's evacuating, south of Sian. Testing the Sian road blockade eventually. I'll leave Yenan to wither for now.

Working a little on the Nanning area and Liuchow. This is the vector I'd prefer taking and then marching 2,500 AV or so up the road from Burma to meet this force just beneath Chunking in Kweiyang.

It's all a bit sketchy for now, and it depends on what he does to defend as well.




(in reply to Jzanes)
Post #: 101
RE: South of the Border, West of the Sun - obvert (J) v... - 10/28/2011 4:00:30 PM   
obvert


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4 Jan 1941

N PAC: Interesting developments today. Our AMCs ran into another group of Allied ships. This time it was a CV task force in the middle of the North Atlantic with Saratoga and Yorktown in the lead! So 2 of 4 US CVs are accounted for. The DDs also sank one of my AMCs and damaged the other. It's the only time I've seen a CV group surface attack ships in their hex. I've always wondered why this didn't happen more. Obviously if you run into ships and are in range you'd send the DDs and maybe a CL after them. No flights came up from the CVs after the night combat, so the weather must be too bad for them or he was going stealth.

I was considering a few days ago weather or not to send the KB up there and take out the Warspite, but thought the weather would make CV ops difficult, this is a long way to steam after just coming back fro Hawaii, and that the important ships would be gone by the time I got there. I would've been to Wake by now and giving a good chase to the West Coast if I had pulled the trigger on that one.

It's probably better I didn't. Not much for those Carriers to hit up there anyway. I think it's more protection against my raiders, which it decicively hit. All other shipping is moving back to Paramushiro Jira for now.

S PAC: The KB is leaving Truk this turn. It's moving into the waters near Noumea to see if we can sneak up to Sydney. It will also support the invasion of Noumea down here. If two US CVs are together in the North Pacific, I'm thinking the others went south. I don't imagine we'll have any shot at them, but maybe there will be some other shipping around to go for.

DEI:The Dutch air force came up today. Our planes did well until the last raid. We shot down 16 Dutch fighters for the loss of 6 zeros. In the last raid of 10 Kates escorted by 14 zeros we somehow managed to lose 6 of the Kates against a CAP of only 5 remaining Hawks and B339s. Hmmm. I'm putting all Kates on ASW for tomorrow. There are 4 2E groups scheduled to hit Batavia, but only 2 flew again today.

In other news, we're 80 miles from Kota Bahru and five armour units are moving down tomorrow. Once that base is secure, all other units in strat will move in and rest up for a few turns before heading into Singers.

PI: The units in Manilla are trying to get to Clark. It didn't help that this turn my bombers didn't fly to try and slow down these troops. Next turn we're deliberate attacking. It'll be interesting. Not sure if we have enough to make him retreat. It should at least slow them down, so if we do get a positive attack maybe over two turns it will force him back. If that happens I would think the Allies would have to move back to Bataan. I'm guessing they have around 900 AV at Clark, but neither of us as bombarded yet to find out.

China: Wuchow has been occupied as he moved out a few days ago. We're now basing the Tojos there where they can get to the three southern bases nearby. Liuchow will be our first big target in this area as it's in the least defensible terrain. It'll be a while before anything gets there though. Slow roads in China.






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< Message edited by obvert -- 10/28/2011 9:51:07 PM >

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Post #: 102
RE: South of the Border, West of the Sun - obvert (J) v... - 10/28/2011 4:07:13 PM   
obvert


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quote:

Dang, lost another long, eloquent reply.

OK, the short version.

1. Great news that you can take CHI out of the game. BANZAI!

2. Ceylon: beware of traps. Allied players have 6 -12 months to prep for losing this, and they know (particularly in Scen 2) that they cannot hold it against IJ. They also know that to take it, you MUST commit the KB. Options available are everything from complete withdrawal on his part to MAJOR flak trap to naval ambush. Think everything through carefully from his perspective.

3. If you keep your KB exposed in the Indian Ocean, he should react in other places. Be ready for that. You are +10 days from either the Artic or Central Pacific. That's a long time and he can cause a lot of mischief in that time if he is ready for you.

Finally, remember that Port Blair is a long way from Ceylon and NavSearch degrades significantly with distance.

Good Luck!!!


Thanks! Sorry I didn't get the benefit of the full original post. I'm not sure I CAN take out China! I simply hope to try. It offers the least strain on the resources of the Empire while perhaps giving back the most gain if we achieve success. Just a lot of airplanes, supply, and lots of men.

I fully expect he will react i other areas if I do go for Ceylon. I'm not sure what he can do that early though. By then the Solomons and Gilberts will be fairly stocked and ready I hope. Noumea could go back to the Allies during this time, but as you say, he has to be ready to take advantage. If he does think this is the beginning of a more involved Invasion of India, maybe he won't react as strongly in the Pacific but will begin to prepare to defend India. We'll see.


(in reply to obvert)
Post #: 103
RE: South of the Border, West of the Sun - obvert (J) v... - 10/28/2011 6:55:34 PM   
PaxMondo


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quote:

ORIGINAL: obvert

I fully expect he will react i other areas if I do go for Ceylon. I'm not sure what he can do that early though. By then the Solomons and Gilberts will be fairly stocked and ready I hope. Noumea could go back to the Allies during this time, but as you say, he has to be ready to take advantage. If he does think this is the beginning of a more involved Invasion of India, maybe he won't react as strongly in the Pacific but will begin to prepare to defend India. We'll see.

If he is good, look for both.

Defense of India doesn't require him to commit his CV's, only LBA and LCU's.

That leaves him free to raid in the Pacific; Central Pacific and North Pacific would be where I would go. He would have +10 days once he marks your KB at Ceylon. I would have troops prepping from day 1 in anticipation of the Ceylon gambit for a number of bases like: Canton, Noumea, Wake, Marcus, Adak, etc. Have them at PH if he can (or SF at worst) ready to load. Once I see your KB, choose the target based upon what looks best, load up and go. He can commit his CV's with relative impunity, get his landing done and be gone before the KB arrives. You're 90 days before you can retake whatever he took (you have to identify and prep new units).

I'm not saying he was looking this far when he started, but he easily could have. As I say, Ceylon is a known target and it requires the KB to pull off. Those are the things I would look for as the allied player in deceloping my counter-strategy for '42 - '43. Noumea is another. PM usually happens too early in the game to take advantage of.

Always keep in mind: I'm not that good of a player. So if this is something I see, well ...

_____________________________

Pax

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Post #: 104
RE: South of the Border, West of the Sun - obvert (J) v... - 10/28/2011 9:46:47 PM   
obvert


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quote:


quote:

quote:

ORIGINAL: obvert

I fully expect he will react i other areas if I do go for Ceylon. I'm not sure what he can do that early though. By then the Solomons and Gilberts will be fairly stocked and ready I hope. Noumea could go back to the Allies during this time, but as you say, he has to be ready to take advantage. If he does think this is the beginning of a more involved Invasion of India, maybe he won't react as strongly in the Pacific but will begin to prepare to defend India. We'll see.


If he is good, look for both.

Defense of India doesn't require him to commit his CV's, only LBA and LCU's.

That leaves him free to raid in the Pacific; Central Pacific and North Pacific would be where I would go. He would have +10 days once he marks your KB at Ceylon. I would have troops prepping from day 1 in anticipation of the Ceylon gambit for a number of bases like: Canton, Noumea, Wake, Marcus, Adak, etc. Have them at PH if he can (or SF at worst) ready to load. Once I see your KB, choose the target based upon what looks best, load up and go. He can commit his CV's with relative impunity, get his landing done and be gone before the KB arrives. You're 90 days before you can retake whatever he took (you have to identify and prep new units).

I'm not saying he was looking this far when he started, but he easily could have. As I say, Ceylon is a known target and it requires the KB to pull off. Those are the things I would look for as the allied player in deceloping my counter-strategy for '42 - '43. Noumea is another. PM usually happens too early in the game to take advantage of.

Always keep in mind: I'm not that good of a player. So if this is something I see, well ...

_____________________________

Pax


That's the best advice I've had yet in this game. The trick is to be ready for his counter. I will make sure I have units ready and prepping for Wake, Canton, Adak, and other spots he might take while I'm in Ceylon. It'll still be April. If he does go for one of those places, (which by the way should be fully garrisoned and fairly tough to take by that point), I'll be able to shortly thereafter throw more into them.

I'll also have good air units in all of those locations by that point. The Aleutians will be tough to guard, and he may be already focused on them now, as 2 CVs just moved up there. We do need at least until the spring thaw to fully prepare the defense up there. Plus there will be no Netties. Should I commit a group of Vals with 30 or so zeros to staunch the defense? That would at least give him pause I would think.

(in reply to PaxMondo)
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RE: South of the Border, West of the Sun - obvert (J) v... - 10/28/2011 10:06:58 PM   
PaxMondo


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quote:

ORIGINAL: obvert
... The trick is to be ready for his counter.

Yep. That's the difference between PBEM and AI. PBEM you have to think ahead to counter - counter - coutner -counter strikes. If you're playing someone like Nemo, add another 50 or so "counter" levels. Against the AI, it's all about having your logistics and sufficient strength focused on your attacks.

quote:

ORIGINAL: obvert
I'll also have good air units in all of those locations by that point. The Aleutians will be tough to guard, and he may be already focused on them now, as 2 CVs just moved up there. We do need at least until the spring thaw to fully prepare the defense up there. Plus there will be no Netties. Should I commit a group of Vals with 30 or so zeros to staunch the defense? That would at least give him pause I would think.

He will be showing up with his CV force (4 CV's I think at this point min, correct?) .... so that's +100 F4F's and +200 TB/DB's. You have to think in the context of facing that kind of force. I'm wouldn't be worried about the base I will lose (and you will lose it, he will bring enough force to be sure of it) as you can take it back. I look at this as an opportunity to locate his CV's, attempt to keep them located and nail them if I can. Right?

Which would you rather have: Ceylon or his CV's?

Same thing holds true here. For him to take his stab, he has to commit his CV's in force ... look at the targets, his likely approach and retreat paths. You have Glens ... get them in place along with other subs. Add in some Mavis and Nells ... If you can predict where he will retreat to and go there instead of where he is when you spot him, you might ambush him ... turn the tables.

This is what PzB does SO well. He has been able to predict Andy's path to the HEX, setup his KB 8 hexes away and hit Andy without his being to retaliate ... Pulling that off once takes incredible analysis. PzB has done it 3 times I think in his AAR. Amazing.

_____________________________

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RE: South of the Border, West of the Sun - obvert (J) v... - 10/28/2011 11:27:17 PM   
obvert


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quote:

He will be showing up with his CV force (4 CV's I think at this point min, correct?) .... so that's +100 F4F's and +200 TB/DB's. You have to think in the context of facing that kind of force. I'm wouldn't be worried about the base I will lose (and you will lose it, he will bring enough force to be sure of it) as you can take it back. I look at this as an opportunity to locate his CV's, attempt to keep them located and nail them if I can. Right?

Which would you rather have: Ceylon or his CV's?

Same thing holds true here. For him to take his stab, he has to commit his CV's in force ... look at the targets, his likely approach and retreat paths. You have Glens ... get them in place along with other subs. Add in some Mavis and Nells ... If you can predict where he will retreat to and go there instead of where he is when you spot him, you might ambush him ... turn the tables.

This is what PzB does SO well. He has been able to predict Andy's path to the HEX, setup his KB 8 hexes away and hit Andy without his being to retaliate ... Pulling that off once takes incredible analysis. PzB has done it 3 times I think in his AAR. Amazing.


Yeah, I've read some of that AAR. It is amazing.

So in other words, go ahead with what I'm going to do, but plan for his counter and make sure to have enough stuff searching out there to find where his CVs will go after. So that when the KB disappears again, its target will be where he is going to.

I can tell the Aleutians either made him nervous or he realized this is a chance to use the CVs and a battlewagon with little hope of the IJN coming into play right now. But, it's a lot of force for little use right now, and gives me very good recon on the CVs for the price (so far) of one AMC. At the very least I am already putting subs on his return paths to the West Coast or PH, so hopefully I can keep some tabs on where they end up or get a lucky shot at one.


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RE: South of the Border, West of the Sun - obvert (J) v... - 10/29/2011 11:06:17 AM   
obvert


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Air losses

A good day aside from the Kates.






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RE: South of the Border, West of the Sun - obvert (J) v... - 10/29/2011 11:09:47 AM   
obvert


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Maps

The current battle scene at the juncture of Java and Sumatra over the skies of Palembang and Batavia.




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RE: South of the Border, West of the Sun - obvert (J) v... - 10/29/2011 11:20:34 AM   
obvert


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Luzon




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RE: South of the Border, West of the Sun - obvert (J) v... - 10/29/2011 11:23:43 AM   
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N China




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RE: South of the Border, West of the Sun - obvert (J) v... - 10/29/2011 11:25:30 AM   
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S China




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RE: South of the Border, West of the Sun - obvert (J) v... - 10/29/2011 4:03:51 PM   
obvert


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5 Jan 1942

DEI: The Palembang air battles continue. Fighter sweeps today by A6Ms took out most of the current Dutch fighter aircraft. he's over his own base, so maybe some pilots survived, but it didn't look good for them. The zero was king. To break it down 9 Demons went down, 4 B339s and 3 Hawks for the loss of 2 zeros (1 as ops). No CAP was up by the time the bombers arrived so we got a good free shot at the fields and hit at least 5 bombers on the ground as well.

Tanks are 1 hex from Johore Bahru. Getting excited for that. About 25 more hits on the fields at Singers today.

PI: Our deliberate attack came off at 2 to 1 today at Manilla with more losses for him and only a few disabled for our troops. He's still shown to be moving, but hoefully this slowed him up enough that tomorrow's attack will force retreat the other way. We'll see.

S PAC: The KB got out and moved today! It went 16 hexes south of Truk in one day on mission speed! How can this happen? I'd love it if it kept it up as we're about to hit Sydney!











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RE: South of the Border, West of the Sun - obvert (J) v... - 10/29/2011 4:05:55 PM   
obvert


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Economy

How does it look so far? I don't have Tracker running yet, but I hope to one day if I can figure it out.






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RE: South of the Border, West of the Sun - obvert (J) v... - 10/30/2011 12:22:13 AM   
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Fusan

After only a month of trying, resources are beginning to move to Fusan. I've had one convoy runing for month, but it only made a few trips because it took so long to fill. There was only about 12,000 resources there. now it's over 70,000. two more convoys are going to start moving between Fusan and Fukuoka now.






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RE: South of the Border, West of the Sun - obvert (J) v... - 10/30/2011 3:08:11 AM   
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quote:

ORIGINAL: obvert

Economy

How does it look so far? I don't have Tracker running yet, but I hope to one day if I can figure it out.

You really, REALLY want to get tracker working if you are IJ. Not sure of your issue, but post in the Tracker thread on the main page. Floyd and Damian are active and get most people up and running in one day. If you can do PBEM, you are more than qualified to start Tracker.

The screen shot doesn't give enough info to comment much. Your NSY is zero, it looks like your are trying to build too much ...

< Message edited by PaxMondo -- 10/30/2011 3:09:53 AM >


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RE: South of the Border, West of the Sun - obvert (J) v... - 10/30/2011 3:14:52 AM   
PaxMondo


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quote:

ORIGINAL: obvert

Fusan

After only a month of trying, resources are beginning to move to Fusan. I've had one convoy runing for month, but it only made a few trips because it took so long to fill. There was only about 12,000 resources there. now it's over 70,000. two more convoys are going to start moving between Fusan and Fukuoka now.


Once you get it starting to flow, and a month is well within reason, you need to be sure to ALWAYS have a convoy there loading. Don't ever let the port be idle. Smaller convoys seem to work best to start the flow. They can make Fukuoka in one day, unload and be back the next. So ideally, you only need two convoys. They will flip between Fusan and Fukuoka if you use the right size ships (small ones that will load in one day). Then slowly add ships to each convoy as the pool builds up. Recycle until you are moving ~40K/day. Watch the resource levels in CMK, once you get the road open to Singapore, you can ratchet up the shipping to about 70/day max IIRC.

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RE: South of the Border, West of the Sun - obvert (J) v... - 10/30/2011 1:18:42 PM   
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Thanks for the comments Pax. Yes, I'll have some time this week to get tracker working, if possible. I am playing one of the recent betas and I've heard it just wasn't working with them, but I'll give it another shot and get some support.

As for Fusan, it surprised me it started flowing there so soon, but I am building the port up and I've been taking resources out since day 2. Now I'll rework the convoys so it's small ships that load in one day and go back and forth oppostie each other. This'll definitely make things easier for the future.

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RE: South of the Border, West of the Sun - obvert (J) v... - 10/30/2011 2:04:51 PM   
PaxMondo


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quote:

ORIGINAL: obvert

Thanks for the comments Pax. Yes, I'll have some time this week to get tracker working, if possible. I am playing one of the recent betas and I've heard it just wasn't working with them, but I'll give it another shot and get some support.

As for Fusan, it surprised me it started flowing there so soon, but I am building the port up and I've been taking resources out since day 2. Now I'll rework the convoys so it's small ships that load in one day and go back and forth oppostie each other. This'll definitely make things easier for the future.

I've been using the beta's all along. Tracker working perfectly the whole time. Any issues, post in the Tracker thread. Damian/Floyd will sort you out quickly. You have to be sure to update your pwsdll.dll file correctly with the patch. They will instruct specifics.

< Message edited by PaxMondo -- 10/30/2011 2:06:04 PM >


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RE: South of the Border, West of the Sun - obvert (J) v... - 10/30/2011 2:13:39 PM   
obvert


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6 Jan 1942

DEI: The fields at Batavia were trashed today almost to closing as all of our flights finally made it out on one day. None of his CAP came up, (as I'm sure he's just getting replacements in) but after the turn I also noticed all fighters and bombers had moved back to Kalidjati. Luckily we'd been reconning that and saw it right away. Tomorrow we'll hit that base with both Bomber strike and a surface bombardment as the Mini-KB and attendant TFs are 3 hexes from there.

Troops landed successfully at Kendari, Macassar and Lautern today. We'll give all of those a day of rest before attacking to lower disruption.

PI: The gambit seems to have paid off well in Manilla. We attacked again and got a 3-1 result forcing Allied troops not to retreat, but actually to surrender! All units formerly at Manilla are now marching into camps! There were 3 PA infantry units and sevaral support troops. 7676 troops destroyed. It would have been almost 400 AV at full strength, so that makes the job on Luzon much easier now. About half of our guys will rest for a few turns in Manilla, and some of course will remain for a garrison there. The rest are moving directly to Clark.

China: One unit, the 62nd Chinese corps I think from bombing reports, is caught one hex south of Nanning in the open. One of my Rgts just caught up with it. We should maul it pretty well next turn. There are 5 units at Nanning, so this is as far as we'll get for now, but not bad for two ground units and an airforce. It'll also make it harder to tell until the last minute when we really come for Nanning in about a month.

N PAC: The US CVs caught the damamged AMC, Kongo Maru, and 14 Dautlesses took it down today. I'm moving some pickets out near the Marshalls and Kuriles just in case.

S PAC: The KB continues to jet south toward the redevous with the replinishment fleet north of New Caledonia. Transports are loading for the operation to take Noumea, and a TF is moving down from Saipan to take the other Allied bases that could be used quickly in this area like Luganville, Efate, Etc.






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