Matrix Games Forums

Forums  Register  Login  Photo Gallery  Member List  Search  Calendars  FAQ 

My Profile  Inbox  Address Book  My Subscription  My Forums  Log Out

Bugs in production system sucks up ARM

 
View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Logged in as: Guest
Users viewing this topic: none
  Printable Version
All Forums >> [New Releases from Matrix Games] >> Gary Grigsby's War in the East Series >> Tech Support >> Bugs in production system sucks up ARM Page: [1] 2   next >   >>
Login
Message << Older Topic   Newer Topic >>
Bugs in production system sucks up ARM - 9/28/2011 4:46:53 PM   
gingerbread


Posts: 2867
Joined: 1/4/2007
From: Sweden
Status: online
I think there are bugs in the production system that in the current implementation makes the 47 mm AT-gun suck up almost all of the "At Start" pool of German ARMAMENT pts. Here is what to do to reproduce:

Start a '41 campaign Human vs. Human, all normal. Run until start of turn 4 (just press end of player turn 6 times). The production screen, filtered to GE, should the look like the one in the first picture below where there have been built 40 47mm AT and the ARM pool is down to 160k. Take a ss if you like.

The quit game, back up your dat folder (ignore this at your own peril!), restart and enter editor. Load generic data and find ground element with ID 357 (pic below) and change build cost from 9999 to 19 (same as 50 mm AT-gun) and save. Exit editor, start new game and run until start of turn 4 as per before. Bring up production screen and compare with values from first run. My trial (pic further below) shows 231 units of 47 mm AT-guns built (yes this is a-historical since it is captured equipment, hence the 9999 cost), but the key data is the ARM pool that has 555k available.

Conclusion is that in the first run the 40 AT-guns built consumed 400k ARM (10k each).

So there are some possible bugs:

1) Ground element production consumes ARM instead of SUPPLY (so fixing this should increase supply usage, which is currently sought after per a comment by Flavius). Check a GE rifle vs a Cav - almost the same but for the horses which should cost SUPPLY not ARM.

2) The "do not build" check is not working - I assume cost equals 9999 should mean "do not build".

3) Devices should have a cost in ARM.

/g




Attachment (1)
Post #: 1
RE: Bugs in production system sucks up ARM - 9/28/2011 4:48:27 PM   
gingerbread


Posts: 2867
Joined: 1/4/2007
From: Sweden
Status: online
cont with picture




Attachment (1)

(in reply to gingerbread)
Post #: 2
RE: Bugs in production system sucks up ARM - 9/28/2011 4:49:14 PM   
gingerbread


Posts: 2867
Joined: 1/4/2007
From: Sweden
Status: online
continued with picture




Attachment (1)

(in reply to gingerbread)
Post #: 3
RE: Bugs in production system sucks up ARM - 9/28/2011 5:04:41 PM   
Helpless


Posts: 15504
Joined: 8/27/2004
Status: offline
Wow! Build cost value is not used as a flag. The date is.

Good catch. I'll check it out.

_____________________________

Pavel Zagzin
WITE/WITW/WITE-2 Development

(in reply to gingerbread)
Post #: 4
RE: Bugs in production system sucks up ARM - 9/28/2011 10:50:23 PM   
Q-Ball


Posts: 6549
Joined: 6/25/2002
From: Chicago, Illinois
Status: online
Holy crap, THAT's how I burned through 500,000 Armaments in 4 turns as the Germans!

I made 54 of those damn things. The Build Cost is 9999.

I wonder if THIS is why several games are showing empty German armament pools

I hope there is a way to put some of that back in the pool. The Germans should have a Manpower problem, not armaments.

_____________________________


(in reply to Helpless)
Post #: 5
RE: Bugs in production system sucks up ARM - 9/28/2011 10:59:36 PM   
Helpless


Posts: 15504
Joined: 8/27/2004
Status: offline
quote:

The Germans should have a Manpower problem, not armaments.


They should have arm problem in 1941... without such bugs of cause.

_____________________________

Pavel Zagzin
WITE/WITW/WITE-2 Development

(in reply to Q-Ball)
Post #: 6
RE: Bugs in production system sucks up ARM - 9/28/2011 11:16:03 PM   
Peltonx


Posts: 9572
Joined: 4/9/2006
Status: offline
Wow nice job seeing that.


Pelton

(in reply to Helpless)
Post #: 7
RE: Bugs in production system sucks up ARM - 9/28/2011 11:23:22 PM   
Q-Ball


Posts: 6549
Joined: 6/25/2002
From: Chicago, Illinois
Status: online

quote:

ORIGINAL: Helpless

quote:

The Germans should have a Manpower problem, not armaments.


They should have arm problem in 1941... without such bugs of cause.


Fair enough in 1941....I would recommend reducing the starting stockpile then when the bug is fixed

_____________________________


(in reply to Helpless)
Post #: 8
RE: Bugs in production system sucks up ARM - 9/28/2011 11:26:02 PM   
Helpless


Posts: 15504
Joined: 8/27/2004
Status: offline
quote:

I would recommend reducing the starting stockpile then when the bug is fixed


This is the plan. Bug is fixed.

_____________________________

Pavel Zagzin
WITE/WITW/WITE-2 Development

(in reply to Q-Ball)
Post #: 9
RE: Bugs in production system sucks up ARM - 9/29/2011 4:23:36 AM   
Marquo


Posts: 1411
Joined: 9/26/2000
Status: offline
Should I wait for a patch before starting turn 2 of a PBEM I just started with Tulllius Detritus? I have enough on my hands as it is.

Marquo

(in reply to Helpless)
Post #: 10
RE: Bugs in production system sucks up ARM - 9/29/2011 5:18:09 AM   
NotOneStepBack


Posts: 889
Joined: 6/17/2011
Status: offline
I encountered this bug and was aware of its effects in a PBEM game, where by turn 9 the entire Wehrmacht had imploded on me. We halted any further games until this is fixed.

(in reply to Marquo)
Post #: 11
Helpless/Matrix Team - Reference Bugs in production sys... - 9/29/2011 8:12:31 AM   
anthonykevinluke

 

Posts: 253
Joined: 8/31/2001
Status: offline
Hi Helpless and MATRIX Team,

Noting your comment that it is fixed; when will we see it??? I am at turn 3 of a game and noted like everyone else my armaments are disappearing at the rapid rate. I am inclined to halt at this point until it is fixed. I suppose your options are:

- release in next patch (..... how long?)
- release a HotFix now (preferred option)
- can we fix it ourselves????

Your advice would be greatly appreciated.

Many thanks,

AKL

(in reply to NotOneStepBack)
Post #: 12
RE: Helpless/Matrix Team - Reference Bugs in production... - 9/29/2011 9:00:32 AM   
Helpless


Posts: 15504
Joined: 8/27/2004
Status: offline
The plan is to release next version of 1.05.xx this week (today or tomorrow). Probably there will be a hotfix for the 1.04 as well.


_____________________________

Pavel Zagzin
WITE/WITW/WITE-2 Development

(in reply to anthonykevinluke)
Post #: 13
RE: Bugs in production system sucks up ARM - 9/29/2011 9:01:50 AM   
Helpless


Posts: 15504
Joined: 8/27/2004
Status: offline
quote:

Should I wait for a patch before starting turn 2 of a PBEM I just started with Tulllius Detritus? I have enough on my hands as it is.


Since we are reducing starting pools for the Germans, for those who are on turn 2, I'd wait for the patch... and restart.

_____________________________

Pavel Zagzin
WITE/WITW/WITE-2 Development

(in reply to Marquo)
Post #: 14
RE: Helpless/Matrix Team - Reference Bugs in production... - 9/29/2011 9:03:15 AM   
anthonykevinluke

 

Posts: 253
Joined: 8/31/2001
Status: offline
Many thanks for your answer and as always, your support. If the answer is that close then I shall await the fix before resuming my advance!

Regards,

AKL

(in reply to Helpless)
Post #: 15
RE: Helpless/Matrix Team - Reference Bugs in production... - 9/29/2011 9:07:21 AM   
anthonykevinluke

 

Posts: 253
Joined: 8/31/2001
Status: offline
Does it need a re-start if I am prepared to go forward with my current armament pool (about 200,000 on 3); therefore assuming that the remaining armaments will not be drained due to the fix, or must I restart from the begining .....

Regards,

AKL

(in reply to anthonykevinluke)
Post #: 16
RE: Helpless/Matrix Team - Reference Bugs in production... - 9/29/2011 11:18:19 AM   
Michael T


Posts: 3624
Joined: 10/22/2006
From: Queensland, Australia.
Status: offline
Sillyflower and I both suspected a problem here a while back. But didn't persue it. Well done nailing this one.

http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=2895719

_____________________________

'Deus le Volt!'
------------------

(in reply to anthonykevinluke)
Post #: 17
RE: Helpless/Matrix Team - Reference Bugs in production... - 9/29/2011 1:03:19 PM   
sj80

 

Posts: 153
Joined: 9/12/2011
Status: offline
@Helpless: thanks for the very fast fixing of that issue.

I have a 1.05 beta PBEM game with Axis finished turn 11 now. The armament pool is empty. Until today I never mind on the production. But I want to know what are the consequences of an empty armament pool?
Only two 47mm guns where produced last turn.
Regarding to the manual the tank and aircraft production is not affected. My production pool is pretty good filled with squads etc. I got 52k replacements for my front line units this turn and the Wehrmacht is in a good shape so far.
I've loaded an old single player game 1.40 and it seems the armament pool is slowly increasing in 1942.
Can somebody tell me what the real effects of this bug are? Will the units in my pool decrease faster as normal? Will I get fewer replacements?

(in reply to Michael T)
Post #: 18
RE: Bugs in production system sucks up ARM - 9/29/2011 1:49:06 PM   
Tarhunnas


Posts: 3161
Joined: 1/27/2011
From: Hex X37, Y15
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Helpless

quote:

Should I wait for a patch before starting turn 2 of a PBEM I just started with Tulllius Detritus? I have enough on my hands as it is.


Since we are reducing starting pools for the Germans, for those who are on turn 2, I'd wait for the patch... and restart.


What should you do if you're on turn 131 and out of armaments since long ago?

< Message edited by Tarhunnas -- 9/29/2011 1:50:02 PM >


_____________________________

Read my AAR:s ye mighty, and despair!
41Ger
41Sov
41Ger
42Ger
42Sov

(in reply to Helpless)
Post #: 19
RE: Bugs in production system sucks up ARM - 9/29/2011 2:24:55 PM   
Helpless


Posts: 15504
Joined: 8/27/2004
Status: offline
I suggested to restart current game on turn 2 because without a reduction Germans will have huge ARM surplus. With other changes in new beta they may unbalance the game play.

Anyone can make it's own decision depending on the game type and in-game situation.

Btw, in earlier version artillery production was more strict, therefore high cost items were not produced in such quantities.







_____________________________

Pavel Zagzin
WITE/WITW/WITE-2 Development

(in reply to Tarhunnas)
Post #: 20
RE: Bugs in production system sucks up ARM - 9/29/2011 2:29:10 PM   
Helpless


Posts: 15504
Joined: 8/27/2004
Status: offline
quote:

What should you do if you're on turn 131 and out of armaments since long ago?


Enjoy the life which permits of playing that much .. even without armaments ;)

_____________________________

Pavel Zagzin
WITE/WITW/WITE-2 Development

(in reply to Tarhunnas)
Post #: 21
RE: Helpless/Matrix Team - Reference Bugs in production... - 9/29/2011 2:32:56 PM   
Helpless


Posts: 15504
Joined: 8/27/2004
Status: offline
quote:

Can somebody tell me what the real effects of this bug are? Will the units in my pool decrease faster as normal? Will I get fewer replacements?


Armament points are consumed in very high quantities by the production of elements which are designed by data team not to be produced. As the result less is left for other items. It has biggest effect when you start a game with big ARM surplus as it was in 1941 campaign.

_____________________________

Pavel Zagzin
WITE/WITW/WITE-2 Development

(in reply to sj80)
Post #: 22
RE: Bugs in production system sucks up ARM - 9/29/2011 2:34:36 PM   
Flaviusx


Posts: 6851
Joined: 9/9/2009
From: Southern California
Status: offline
I'm just glad the mystery has been solved. This armaments thing was bugging me for a long time.

_____________________________

WitE Alpha Tester

(in reply to Helpless)
Post #: 23
RE: Bugs in production system sucks up ARM - 9/29/2011 4:29:27 PM   
JAMiAM

 

Posts: 6176
Joined: 2/8/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Flaviusx

I'm just glad the mystery has been solved. This armaments thing was bugging me for a long time.

Yes, thanks gingerbread!

(in reply to Flaviusx)
Post #: 24
RE: Bugs in production system sucks up ARM - 9/29/2011 6:31:51 PM   
Joel Billings


Posts: 27280
Joined: 9/20/2000
From: Santa Rosa, CA
Status: online
Here's the situation as best I can describe it. Using the new patch that should be out by tomorrow, the Germans will start with 500k less in armaments. However, it is expected that around 75 of the 9999 cost 47mm guns will be built during 1941. If you have already started a game, and you have 50 of these guns built, you will have lost 500k in armaments. You should hold off until the patch is released and then continue on. If you have built more than 50 of these guns, you will net out less armaments than if you did a restart, but should probably just continue on with your game. If you have not yet built 50 of these guns you have a choice. If you have just started, you may want to restart. If you are already a few turns into the game, then you can continue on. The closer to having 50 guns built when you switchover to the new version, the closer you will be to matching the way a new game will play out using the next version. I hope that helps. Sorry for the inconvenience and thanks to the person that identified this bug. This was a case of code never being written to match the agreed upon plan with the data guys (that cost 9999 items would be blocked from production). Once we identified the problem, we decided to take advantage of the chance to slightly increase German armaments points in 1941 since we were running a little lighter than we wanted.

_____________________________

All understanding comes after the fact.
-- Soren Kierkegaard

(in reply to JAMiAM)
Post #: 25
RE: Bugs in production system sucks up ARM - 9/29/2011 9:01:35 PM   
larryfulkerson

 

Posts: 38269
Joined: 4/17/2005
From: Tucson, AZ
Status: offline
It appears that there are several equipment types that have the same 9999 build cost that the 47MM AT gun has. Are they going to
be "fixed" too?




Attachment (1)

(in reply to Joel Billings)
Post #: 26
RE: Bugs in production system sucks up ARM - 9/29/2011 9:21:00 PM   
larryfulkerson

 

Posts: 38269
Joined: 4/17/2005
From: Tucson, AZ
Status: offline
There are some 9999 items on the Russian side as well that need some attention.




Attachment (1)

(in reply to larryfulkerson)
Post #: 27
RE: Bugs in production system sucks up ARM - 9/29/2011 9:29:10 PM   
Joel Billings


Posts: 27280
Joined: 9/20/2000
From: Santa Rosa, CA
Status: online
The code has been added so that these elements will never be built. The 47mm AT gun is the only one I know of that was being built. If you have evidence that some of the other weapons were being built, please post this info with how many and when they were being built. Thanks.

_____________________________

All understanding comes after the fact.
-- Soren Kierkegaard

(in reply to larryfulkerson)
Post #: 28
RE: Bugs in production system sucks up ARM - 9/29/2011 10:08:33 PM   
gingerbread


Posts: 2867
Joined: 1/4/2007
From: Sweden
Status: online
If the chosen way to fix this is to ensure that they are never built, what happens when the 47mm (and other 9999 elements) becomes obsolete and is scrapped, will the player recieve ARM points based on the 9999 cost? Even a scrap value of 10% will yield 1k each...

Further, since the build cost is in ARM points, there are other ground elements that ought to be re-evaluated. I mentioned CAV above, and there are others that are not based on a "big item". These appear to have been priced in terms of SUPPLY points. Specifically, a German CAV squad costs 65 vs. a German Rifle squad which costs 8. They have similar equipment except for the horses and my point is that horses are not manufactured in gun factories!

(in reply to Joel Billings)
Post #: 29
RE: Bugs in production system sucks up ARM - 9/29/2011 10:34:02 PM   
Helpless


Posts: 15504
Joined: 8/27/2004
Status: offline
quote:

If the chosen way to fix this is to ensure that they are never built, what happens when the 47mm (and other 9999 elements) becomes obsolete and is scrapped, will the player recieve ARM points based on the 9999 cost? Even a scrap value of 10% will yield 1k each...


You are not getting 100% of build cost when scrapping happens - just 1/3 at best. Also most of the 9999 equipment has end date of 1945. But otherwise it should be restricted as well.

quote:

Further, since the build cost is in ARM points, there are other ground elements that ought to be re-evaluated. I mentioned CAV above, and there are others that are not based on a "big item". These appear to have been priced in terms of SUPPLY points. Specifically, a German CAV squad costs 65 vs. a German Rifle squad which costs 8. They have similar equipment except for the horses and my point is that horses are not manufactured in gun factories!


I think this is done intentionally. Good horses required for the military service were (and still are) very "expensive". Since we deal with automatic production items, this is the only way to control the output.

_____________________________

Pavel Zagzin
WITE/WITW/WITE-2 Development

(in reply to gingerbread)
Post #: 30
Page:   [1] 2   next >   >>
All Forums >> [New Releases from Matrix Games] >> Gary Grigsby's War in the East Series >> Tech Support >> Bugs in production system sucks up ARM Page: [1] 2   next >   >>
Jump to:





New Messages No New Messages
Hot Topic w/ New Messages Hot Topic w/o New Messages
Locked w/ New Messages Locked w/o New Messages
 Post New Thread
 Reply to Message
 Post New Poll
 Submit Vote
 Delete My Own Post
 Delete My Own Thread
 Rate Posts


Forum Software © ASPPlayground.NET Advanced Edition 2.4.5 ANSI

0.180