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List of 1.05 update changes? - 8/30/2011 9:36:51 PM   
Gargoil

 

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Where is the list of changes that are being made in 1.05 update?
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RE: List of 1.05 update changes? - 8/30/2011 9:48:13 PM   
Joel Billings


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Here's what we have so far. There will be more before it goes out. As much as we'd like to get it out this week, I don't think that's going to happen. Just too many changes that require testing and some more changes still to come.

V1.05.14 – August 29, 2011

• New Features and Rule Changes

1) New Rule - Air groups in the national reserve may now be disbanded.
2) New Rule - Unit counters no longer show SS/Elite/LW/Guards status (coloring) if their detection level is lower than 5.
3) New Rule - Air recon will not increase an enemy air base’s detection level above 5.
4) New Rule - Static units no longer lose their static status when they are retreated or routed.
5) New Rule - Units may not enter static mode in 1941.
6) New Rule – Ports are now unusable for naval transport on the turn they are captured.
7) New Rule – Admin and Initiative checks are twice as hard to make for isolated units.
8) New Rule –Soviet aircraft reliability decreases in 1942-1943 (the reliability rating is treated as higher than shown due to the quality drop resulting from factory evacuations).
9) New Rule – The reliability of old (out of production) aircraft decreased (reliability rating is treated as higher than shown).
10) New Rule – NKVD Border Regiments never get replacements.
11) New Rule – NKVD Border Regiments check for disbanding each friendly logistics phase starting in July 1941. The chance the unit will be disbanded is as follows:
July 1941 – 100% - %TOE of the unit
August 1941 – 80%
September 1941 and later – 95%
12) New Rule – Air supply. Isolated air units may be changed to beach/air supply status (same as old beachhead status) under certain conditions. If a player flies in supplies to an air base in a pocket, the supplies will immediately be distributed amongst all of the isolated units that can trace to the air base. If the amount received during the turn at some point equals 5% or more of the total needs of the unit, then the unit will be immediately set to beach/air supply status (it will display in orange instead of red when toggle unsupplied units is toggled on). The total needs are the supply+fuel+ammo needs listed for the unit. So a division with total needs of 1100 tons of s/f/a have at least 55 tons flown in and delivered to the unit, it will have its supply status changed from isolated to beach/air supply status. This will last until the next friendly logistics phase. Units with beach/air supply will always pay penalties for being short of ammo, so there is a disadvantage in combat to be in beach/air supply (but it's better than being isolated where there are additional penalties). The air base must be in a clear or light woods hex. When in Beach/Air supply, the unit detail screen will show the information: Air Head Supply 400 / 20 (5%) which indicates the total amount of supplies+fuel+ammo the unit needs, the amount it has received via air resupply, and the total percentage of needs that has been met. When in Air Transport mode, the player can left click on an air base and then bring up that unit’s detail screen to see a full list of all isolated unit that can trace to the air base, the total need of each unit, and the amount of supplies that have been sent to the unit. On the right side of that screen is a line that reads Air Supply Range: 10. By clicking on this line, the player may enter a different number from 1 to 10. Only units within the state range in hexes of the air base will be sent supplies that are airlifted to this air base. Air base units may be moved before supplies are delivered to it, but once it receives supplies for isolated units, it will not be able to move and then receive additional supplies for isolated units. Units that are merged or divided track the amount of air head supplies received, so they can lose their supplied status if no longer over the 5% threshold.
13) New Rule – Hiwis (Hilfswilliger - "auxiliary volunteers") – Rules have been added to account for the soldiers and civilians that served as support personnel for German units during WWII (known as Hiwis).
a) Hiwis are generated from captured men. 8% of captured manpower will go into a Hiwi pool. Also, captured manpower centers also produce 10 men for each captured point (theater production limits and damage apply).
b) Hiwis can be added to German unit’s Support and Labor Squads starting from 1942.
c) Hiwis can't be added to High Command HQs.
d) Hiwis can't be more than 70% of current labor ground element TOE, 30% of current support element TOE, or 10% of current support element TOE of an SS Elite unit TOE.
e) If the parent element is targeted and is destroyed there is a maximum 60% chance that a Hiwis squad will be destroyed instead (the less percentage of the element made up with Hiwis, the smaller the chance that a Hiwi squad will be destroyed).
f) Hiwis elements provide the same amount of support and engineer values as a normal support squad.
g) If using an old save, when first loaded the game will generate some amount of Hiwis based on existing captured men and manpower centers.
h) Interface changes - The number of Hiwis in a unit is show on the unit’s detailed information display. The number of Hiwi elements is shown in parenthesis next to the ground element type. So the entry Support (Hiwi 2) indicates that 2 of the support squads in the unit are Hiwi squads). The production screen has an entry for Hiwis, showing how many men are in the Hiwi pool.
14) Changes to Production Rules
a. Changed Soviet Manpower multiplier in 1942 to 40 (from 45).
b. Changed Soviet Armaments multipliers in 1942-1945 to 130 (from 200).
c. Items produced in Poland and Czech cities now added to the "built" German stats.
15) Changes to Morale Rules
a. The following units receive bonuses to their National Morale: All Cavalry, Mountain Airborne and Air Landing units, and Axis Allied motorized units +5, German Motorized Units +10, Soviet Motorized Units (from Sept 1942-August 1943) +5, Soviet Motorized Units (Sept 1943-end of war) +10.
b. Soviet National Morale has been changed to 50 in June 1941. One point is subtracted each month after this in 1941 (so it is 44 in Dec 41). In 1942 it is set to 40, with one point being added each month starting in September 1942 (so 44 in Dec 42). This continues in 1943 and 1944 until the Soviet National Morale reaches its maximum of 60 in April 1944.
c. Build morale now equals national morale in all cases (there is no separate build morale table anymore.
d. Changed rule so that the morale gain from refit when under 50 morale is only gained when the unit in refit is at least 10 hexes from a supplied enemy unit (similar to the current gain if less than morale 50 and 10 or more hexes from enemy unit).
e. If an element’s experience is less than half of the unit’s morale, then the automatic +1 gain in experience each turn becomes +3.
f. Shock Armies provide their +5 bonus for non-guards units which don’t already have a specialty bonus. Guards Armies provide their +5 bonus for Guards units which don’t already have a specialty bonus.
16) Changes to Fortification Rules
a. Requirement to build up to Fort Level 5 - Only will be built in port hexes that have a fort unit. Once built, the fort unit is not needed to keep the level 4 fort. Not possible in a swamp hex.
b. Requirement to build up to Fort Level 4 - Must have a fort unit in the hex. Once built, the fort unit is not needed to keep the level 4 fort. Not possible in swamp hex.
c. Requirement to build up to Fort Level 3 - Must be adjacent to an enemy hex, be an urban or city hex, or be in or adjacent to a fort unit. Once the level 3 is reached, the condition does not have to continue to be met to keep the level 3 fort.
d. Fort levels that have reached their maximum fort level for the hex may continue to build up to 10% towards the next fort level.
e. Building forts in mud now uses a .25 modifier (instead of .33).
f. Doubled the rate of fort decay.
g. Increased decay rate of low level forts, based on the weather.
Extra decay percentage:
Fort Weather
Level clear snow mud/blizzard
0 20 40 80
1 12 14 48
2 4 8 16
g. Added supply cost for fort construction as follows:
fort 0->1 1 tons per fort point (no cost for isolated units, construction rate is halved)
fort 1->2 2 tons per fort point (no cost for isolated units, construction rate is halved)
fort 2->3 20 tons per fort points
fort 3->4 200 tons per fort points
fort 4->5 2000 tons per fort points
*note each fort point represents 2% toward the next fort level
17) Changes to Naval Movement Rules
a. Amphibious landings are not allowed west of x coordinate 76 (Rumania) until 1944.
b. Added Naval/Amphibious movement capacity limits as follows:
Axis
Lake Ladoga – 3000
Baltic Sea – 10000
Black Sea – 4000
Sea of Azov – 1000
Soviet
Lake Ladoga – 4000
Baltic Sea – 8000 (decreases by 1000 each year)
Black Sea – 10000 (decreases by 1500 each year)
Sea of Azov – 4000 (decreases by 500 each year)
Caspian Sea – 5000
Black Sea Amphibious Movement – 2500 (decreases by 100 each year)
Sea of Azov Amphibious Movement – 1000 (decreases by 100 each year
c. Amphibious movement cost per hex is x4 before 1943 and x3 from 1943-45 (reduces the range of an amphibious assault).
d. Set shading for valid naval destinations during naval movement. This doesn’t mean the current unit can reach the hex, just that it is a valid hex for the appropriate type of naval movement. Yellow shading indicates an enemy hex; green shading indicates a friendly hex.
e. Decreased “retreat losses” caused by the transport sunk event during interdiction attacks on naval/amphibiously moving units.
18) Rule Change – Ice levels no longer go up by 4 during a blizzard in all areas. The amount of increase is dependent on the weather zone as follows:
Europe Zone +1
South Soviet Zone +2
Central Soviet Zone +3
North Soviet Zone +4
19) Rule Change – Major rivers are not considered frozen until the ice level is at least 8 (used to be 5). At ice levels 5-7, the extra cost due to icing is 8 when moving into an EZOC, and 4 when not moving into an EZOC.
20) Rule Change – Lowered the disabled return rate for the Soviets to ½ percent (from 1%).
21) Rule Change – Entrained units may not move via naval or amphibious movement.
22) Rule Change – Changed the formula that determines when a unit is unready. Now, Morale+TOE must be less than 90 for a unit to be unready (used to be less than 100).
23) Rule Change - Removed extra training flights if the aircraft in play was reaching a high value.
24) Rule Change - Made modifications to the routine which frees the slots for new aircraft to be built. Now it will first disband old airframes (inactive) in reserve and then active aircraft. If an air group reaches 0 aircraft, it will disband the air group.
25) Interface Change – The production filter ON now shows active elements that are built by the “on demand” production system (so not just AFVs and aircraft).
26) Interface Change - Restricted clicking on the jump map during the AI turn.
27) New Feature – Added a disband function on the CR air group tab.
28) New Message – Added logistics event messages for the automatic disbanding of Soviet Corps HQ’s and NKVD Regiments.
29) Formula Change – Units in beachhead/Air head supply will not suffer more than a 33% reduction in CV due to supply shortages (used to be it could be up to a 75% reduction in CV).
30) Formula Change – Adjusted strike creation formulas so that computer created airstrikes will not fly more aircraft than player created airstrikes.
31) Formula Change - Increased effectiveness of flak, especially when defending airbases and cities/ports.
32) Formula Change - Modified the replacement of the air groups. Replacements first go to the newest airframes. Once the aircraft count exceeds 15000, the replacements for air groups with old airframes decreases as the total plane count rises.

• Bug Fixes

1) Fixed a bug causing escorts for air transport missions to too often not fly during blizzard weather.
2) Fixed a bug where partisan units could construct forts for the Axis.
3) Fixed a bug where brigades landing amphibiously were improperly taking control of adjacent hexes.
4) Fixed a bug where battle sites were active if hidden behind the battle report window.
5) Fixed a bug where depleted units can be located next to an enemy unit at the completion of the logistics phase.
6) Fixed a bug where Motorized units were being shown as available to move amphibiously.
7) Fixed a bug with Guards promotion of Soviet Armies.
8) Fixed a display bug that occurs when exiting the city information window.
9) Fixed a bug where the production filter didn't correctly show active artillery equipment.

• Data and Scenario Changes

1) Fixed Unit ID 333 - Fin. Commando Battalion used Hungarian Support Squads
2) Changed the ending date for the SS Motorized Brigade (OB 283) from 9/43 to 9/44 to correct typo.
3) Corrected data for 40mm 41M L/51 Gun.



_____________________________

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(in reply to Gargoil)
Post #: 2
RE: List of 1.05 update changes? - 8/30/2011 10:01:57 PM   
kirkgregerson

 

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Joel, I love you.... but I'm not 'in love with you'. Just so you don't get those two confused


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Post #: 3
RE: List of 1.05 update changes? - 8/30/2011 10:08:37 PM   
kirkgregerson

 

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quote:

8) New Rule –Soviet aircraft reliability decreases in 1942-1943 (the reliability rating is treated as higher than shown due to the quality drop resulting from factory evacuations).
9) New Rule – The reliability of old (out of production) aircraft decreased (reliability rating is treated as higher than shown).


Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't a lower reliability rating better? Lower reliability rating means it breaks down less?

Is this what was intended for the context of the above rules changes?

Thanks

(in reply to kirkgregerson)
Post #: 4
RE: List of 1.05 update changes? - 8/30/2011 10:13:53 PM   
JAMiAM

 

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Just as a teaser to the loyal readers, the AirHead Supply rules will be helpful in making those Soviet Pockets more resilient in the early game (1941). In my 1.05.xx tester game against PDH, I supplied about 2/3 of my Lvov Pocket on turn 2, using waves of Soviet Bombers. It cost me a couple of hundred LBs, but hopefully it will allow the pocket to tie down his marauding Huns just a little bit longer.

This AirHead Supply rule will probably make it more important to retain more of the Axis army airbases, instead of disbanding them. I usually keep most of mine, anyhow, as I send any recon squadrons that are on LW airbases to them to more evenly spread out my support needs. Keeping a few around to stick in any threatened pockets might be a good idea.

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Post #: 5
RE: List of 1.05 update changes? - 8/30/2011 10:20:04 PM   
kirkgregerson

 

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Has there been a fix for the 505 Hvy Pz bat not being able to be attached to a division? It's in the parent Corps HQ which it's adjacent to. Or was there a special reason for this? The first few Hvy Pz bat (w/tigers) I was able to attach to divisions.

I'll double check on this in my current game, but I think it's an issue for me.


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Post #: 6
RE: List of 1.05 update changes? - 8/30/2011 10:39:48 PM   
Q-Ball


Posts: 6509
Joined: 6/25/2002
From: Chicago, Illinois
Status: online

quote:

ORIGINAL: JAMiAM

Just as a teaser to the loyal readers, the AirHead Supply rules will be helpful in making those Soviet Pockets more resilient in the early game (1941). In my 1.05.xx tester game against PDH, I supplied about 2/3 of my Lvov Pocket on turn 2, using waves of Soviet Bombers. It cost me a couple of hundred LBs, but hopefully it will allow the pocket to tie down his marauding Huns just a little bit longer.

This AirHead Supply rule will probably make it more important to retain more of the Axis army airbases, instead of disbanding them. I usually keep most of mine, anyhow, as I send any recon squadrons that are on LW airbases to them to more evenly spread out my support needs. Keeping a few around to stick in any threatened pockets might be a good idea.



I was thinking about this new rule, and it doesn't seem like it would help the Germans much. It would have to be a pretty big pocket to have an airbase in there. Most of the time when the Germans get someone surrounded, it's just one or two stacks, at least in the game. A Demyansk is theoretically possible now, but a better idea might be to not get 6 divisions cut-off in the first place.

Might actually help the Reds more.....





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Post #: 7
RE: List of 1.05 update changes? - 8/30/2011 10:44:50 PM   
JAMiAM

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Q-Ball
A Demyansk is theoretically possible now, but a better idea might be to not get 6 divisions cut-off in the first place.

Well...there's always that...

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Post #: 8
RE: List of 1.05 update changes? - 8/30/2011 11:11:48 PM   
Omat


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Hello

I would like to know if the data of the Me 109 f4 is corrected. Helpless said something there is an issue. The Data for the Me-109 f2 and Me-109 f4 are the same (except arment).

http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/fb.asp?m=2834472

In beta v 1.04.39 it is the same.


Omat

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Post #: 9
RE: List of 1.05 update changes? - 8/30/2011 11:21:45 PM   
BletchleyGeek


Posts: 4264
Joined: 11/26/2009
From: Living in the fair city of Melbourne, Australia
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Joel Billings
30) Formula Change – Adjusted strike creation formulas so that computer created airstrikes will not fly more aircraft than player created airstrikes.


This one just caught my eye. Perhaps it's my memory playing games, but I'd say that from 1.04 on, ground attack missions started to be so anemic. Or perhaps, it was me fiddling with the Air Doctrine settings. What can we expect, let's say, if we put 75 priority to Ground Attack and 200 to Ground Support? Will the latter receiving double the planes the former mission type receives?

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Post #: 10
RE: List of 1.05 update changes? - 8/30/2011 11:33:21 PM   
Joel Billings


Posts: 27095
Joined: 9/20/2000
From: Santa Rosa, CA
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: kirkgregerson

Has there been a fix for the 505 Hvy Pz bat not being able to be attached to a division? It's in the parent Corps HQ which it's adjacent to. Or was there a special reason for this? The first few Hvy Pz bat (w/tigers) I was able to attach to divisions.

I'll double check on this in my current game, but I think it's an issue for me.





I just assinged it ok in the 43 campaign using our latest version. I don't know if there is something different about the 41 campaign or if something has been fixed.

_____________________________

All understanding comes after the fact.
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Post #: 11
RE: List of 1.05 update changes? - 8/31/2011 3:27:12 AM   
Farfarer61

 

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A better idea is for newly formed Corps to be immobile for a week or more.

< Message edited by Farfarer -- 8/31/2011 12:32:40 PM >

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Post #: 12
RE: List of 1.05 update changes? - 8/31/2011 5:02:40 AM   
gradenko_2000_slith

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Q-Ball
Might actually help the Reds more.....

They'll probably need that help though, as the new armament rules place a much higher premium on keeping factories safe long enough for evacuation, which means fighting forward a lot more.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bletchley_Geek
quote:

ORIGINAL: Joel Billings
30) Formula Change – Adjusted strike creation formulas so that computer created airstrikes will not fly more aircraft than player created airstrikes.


This one just caught my eye. Perhaps it's my memory playing games, but I'd say that from 1.04 on, ground attack missions started to be so anemic. Or perhaps, it was me fiddling with the Air Doctrine settings. What can we expect, let's say, if we put 75 priority to Ground Attack and 200 to Ground Support? Will the latter receiving double the planes the former mission type receives?

This kind of behavior was discovered long (maybe 2 months?) ago, where letting the AI fly strikes (simple right-click on target) would always yield more bombers than the player designating which air groups to fly.

I remember one of the 1.04 patches was supposed to fix it, but it showing up on this 1.05 change list probably means it wasn't completely fixed yet and they're having another go at it.

(in reply to Q-Ball)
Post #: 13
RE: List of 1.05 update changes? - 8/31/2011 5:27:53 AM   
tigercub


Posts: 1819
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Omat

Hello

I would like to know if the data of the Me 109 f4 is corrected. Helpless said something there is an issue. The Data for the Me-109 f2 and Me-109 f4 are the same (except arment).

http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/fb.asp?m=2834472

In beta v 1.04.39 it is the same.


Omat

i told them this months ago

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Post #: 14
RE: List of 1.05 update changes? - 8/31/2011 9:50:08 AM   
BletchleyGeek


Posts: 4264
Joined: 11/26/2009
From: Living in the fair city of Melbourne, Australia
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quote:

ORIGINAL: gradenko_2000
quote:

ORIGINAL: Bletchley_Geek
quote:

ORIGINAL: Joel Billings
30) Formula Change – Adjusted strike creation formulas so that computer created airstrikes will not fly more aircraft than player created airstrikes.


This one just caught my eye. Perhaps it's my memory playing games, but I'd say that from 1.04 on, ground attack missions started to be so anemic. Or perhaps, it was me fiddling with the Air Doctrine settings. What can we expect, let's say, if we put 75 priority to Ground Attack and 200 to Ground Support? Will the latter receiving double the planes the former mission type receives?

This kind of behavior was discovered long (maybe 2 months?) ago, where letting the AI fly strikes (simple right-click on target) would always yield more bombers than the player designating which air groups to fly.

I remember one of the 1.04 patches was supposed to fix it, but it showing up on this 1.05 change list probably means it wasn't completely fixed yet and they're having another go at it.


Thank you gradenko, you have a better memory than me :) Though I'm still wondering whether fiddling with the air doctrine in "weird" ways can aggravate the problem, or at least, obtain different results.


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Post #: 15
RE: List of 1.05 update changes? - 8/31/2011 12:14:28 PM   
Tarhunnas


Posts: 3161
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From: Hex X37, Y15
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Q-Ball


quote:

ORIGINAL: JAMiAM

Just as a teaser to the loyal readers, the AirHead Supply rules will be helpful in making those Soviet Pockets more resilient in the early game (1941). In my 1.05.xx tester game against PDH, I supplied about 2/3 of my Lvov Pocket on turn 2, using waves of Soviet Bombers. It cost me a couple of hundred LBs, but hopefully it will allow the pocket to tie down his marauding Huns just a little bit longer.

This AirHead Supply rule will probably make it more important to retain more of the Axis army airbases, instead of disbanding them. I usually keep most of mine, anyhow, as I send any recon squadrons that are on LW airbases to them to more evenly spread out my support needs. Keeping a few around to stick in any threatened pockets might be a good idea.

I was thinking about this new rule, and it doesn't seem like it would help the Germans much. It would have to be a pretty big pocket to have an airbase in there. Most of the time when the Germans get someone surrounded, it's just one or two stacks, at least in the game. A Demyansk is theoretically possible now, but a better idea might be to not get 6 divisions cut-off in the first place.

Might actually help the Reds more.....


I was thinking the same. This will still not make a Demyansk possible, because it is very unlikely the army airbase will be so close to the front that it will be included in the pocket.

If this is to work, it should either be enough that there is a town in the pocket, or be possible to create a temporary airbase for air supply.

In fact, this rule risk being counterproductive in that it will make larger pockets easier to supply by air than small pockets, while historically the opposite seems to have been the case.

_____________________________

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41Ger
41Sov
41Ger
42Ger
42Sov

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Post #: 16
RE: List of 1.05 update changes? - 8/31/2011 12:38:02 PM   
BletchleyGeek


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Tarhunnas


quote:

ORIGINAL: Q-Ball

quote:

ORIGINAL: JAMiAM
Just as a teaser to the loyal readers, the AirHead Supply rules will be helpful in making those Soviet Pockets more resilient in the early game (1941). In my 1.05.xx tester game against PDH, I supplied about 2/3 of my Lvov Pocket on turn 2, using waves of Soviet Bombers. It cost me a couple of hundred LBs, but hopefully it will allow the pocket to tie down his marauding Huns just a little bit longer.


Might actually help the Reds more.....


I was thinking the same. This will still not make a Demyansk possible, because it is very unlikely the army airbase will be so close to the front that it will be included in the pocket.


To use this ability, you'll need to plan ahead for that, by having an airbase close to the frontline (actually, this is not a bad idea at all, having fighters and CAS near the front, maximizes the chances to have interdiction attacks during your opponents' turn). I think is quite reasonable that we need to make changes in our playing style to use that.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tarhunnas
If this is to work, it should either be enough that there is a town in the pocket, or be possible to create a temporary airbase for air supply.


I agree, perhaps HQ's could become such "alarm" airbases, but with an efficiency much lower than LW (or Heer) airbases.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tarhunnas
In fact, this rule risk being counterproductive in that it will make larger pockets easier to supply by air than small pockets, while historically the opposite seems to have been the case.


That's debatable Tarhunnas. The difficulties of keeping supplied 6. Armee at Stalingrad - where they had 3 different airports - were more a consequence of the STAVKA massing VVS figher regiments to interdict air resupply when it realized what was going on, the inability of 11 PzD to keep the 5th Tanks Army off the airbases on the Chir river - though they managed to keep 5th Tanks from breaking through - and weather. The LW also tried to supply smaller pockets - such as Korsun - but there they were limited to parachute drops (I think) and it was too common that supply fell in the hands of - also starving - Red Army troops.

I have highlighted the remark Jamiam makes regarding the cost in planes, because that's not peanuts. 200 LBs are easily more than half the available to Southwestern Front aviation after the T1 massacre. That cannot be sustained for long.


< Message edited by Bletchley_Geek -- 8/31/2011 12:39:33 PM >


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Post #: 17
RE: List of 1.05 update changes? - 8/31/2011 1:24:10 PM   
Tarhunnas


Posts: 3161
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From: Hex X37, Y15
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Bletchley_Geek
To use this ability, you'll need to plan ahead for that, by having an airbase close to the frontline (actually, this is not a bad idea at all, having fighters and CAS near the front, maximizes the chances to have interdiction attacks during your opponents' turn). I think is quite reasonable that we need to make changes in our playing style to use that.


Good point with the CAS and interdiction.

I usually don't plan on having the enemy surround my units; that's negative thinking. When it does happen it is usually kind of unforseen .

Seriously, however near the front I have the army airbase it is unlikely it will be in the exact spot to be included in the pocket (unless I manage to get the whole army surrounded, but that is even more negative thinking).

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bletchley_Geek
That's debatable Tarhunnas. The difficulties of keeping supplied 6. Armee at Stalingrad - where they had 3 different airports - were more a consequence of the STAVKA massing VVS figher regiments to interdict air resupply when it realized what was going on, the inability of 11 PzD to keep the 5th Tanks Army off the airbases on the Chir river - though they managed to keep 5th Tanks from breaking through - and weather. The LW also tried to supply smaller pockets - such as Korsun - but there they were limited to parachute drops (I think) and it was too common that supply fell in the hands of - also starving - Red Army troops.


True, a lot of things were different at Stalingrad compared to Demyansk or Kholm. Still, the fact remains that it proved possible to supply a corps almost indefinitely by air, but not an army, while with the rule as it appears, it risks the opposite simply because the army has an airbase.

< Message edited by Tarhunnas -- 8/31/2011 1:25:46 PM >


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(in reply to BletchleyGeek)
Post #: 18
RE: List of 1.05 update changes? - 8/31/2011 2:35:51 PM   
Q-Ball


Posts: 6509
Joined: 6/25/2002
From: Chicago, Illinois
Status: online
But if you plan ahead enough to put an airbase close to the front where it would supply the pocket, why not plan ahead and just get those guys out of there?

And if you can get an airbase unit IN to the area, why can't you get the troops OUT?

Most pockets aren't really PLANNED is my point. And you need to PLAN ahead to have an airbase in there, generally.

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Post #: 19
RE: List of 1.05 update changes? - 8/31/2011 2:56:11 PM   
Flaviusx


Posts: 6851
Joined: 9/9/2009
From: Southern California
Status: offline
I personally do not think it is worth burning 200 bombers on keeping the Lvov pocket supplied for one turn, but mileage may vary. I very much prefer using the bombers to immediately strengthen the Red Air force at the front for purposes of ground support, particularly after the pasting of the surprise turn. You don't start off with a lot of tactical airpower in the first place, and those bombers are the only way to bring this up to speed in the first few turns.

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Post #: 20
RE: List of 1.05 update changes? - 8/31/2011 3:42:08 PM   
BletchleyGeek


Posts: 4264
Joined: 11/26/2009
From: Living in the fair city of Melbourne, Australia
Status: offline


quote:

ORIGINAL: Tarhunnas
I usually don't plan on having the enemy surround my units; that's negative thinking. When it does happen it is usually kind of unforseen .

Seriously, however near the front I have the army airbase it is unlikely it will be in the exact spot to be included in the pocket (unless I manage to get the whole army surrounded, but that is even more negative thinking).


quote:

ORIGINAL: Q-Ball
But if you plan ahead enough to put an airbase close to the front where it would supply the pocket, why not plan ahead and just get those guys out of there?

And if you can get an airbase unit IN to the area, why can't you get the troops OUT?

Most pockets aren't really PLANNED is my point. And you need to PLAN ahead to have an airbase in there, generally.


Who does? With current mechanics, no one. When I said "planning ahead" I was thinking of a situations like the following:



where you "plan ahead" as in:

* I don't want to pull out from there for whatever reason
* I am gathering my reserves to defeat both pincers, but I need time.
* So I move Corps HQ and Airbase into Pogar, and establish a perimeter with infantry until cavalry arrives.

That should give a fighting chance to those divisions, and probably would stall what would be a major push from your opponent.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tarhunnas
quote:

ORIGINAL: Bletchley_Geek
That's debatable Tarhunnas. The difficulties of keeping supplied 6. Armee at Stalingrad - where they had 3 different airports - were more a consequence of the STAVKA massing VVS figher regiments to interdict air resupply when it realized what was going on, the inability of 11 PzD to keep the 5th Tanks Army off the airbases on the Chir river - though they managed to keep 5th Tanks from breaking through - and weather. The LW also tried to supply smaller pockets - such as Korsun - but there they were limited to parachute drops (I think) and it was too common that supply fell in the hands of - also starving - Red Army troops.


True, a lot of things were different at Stalingrad compared to Demyansk or Kholm. Still, the fact remains that it proved possible to supply a corps almost indefinitely by air, but not an army, while with the rule as it appears, it risks the opposite simply because the army has an airbase.


Good point Tarhunnas. If you can't do as above, or you just happen not to have an airbase in the right place, you're screwed.

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Post #: 21
RE: List of 1.05 update changes? - 8/31/2011 3:42:34 PM   
timmyab

 

Posts: 1958
Joined: 12/14/2010
From: Bristol, UK
Status: offline
I agree with people saying that it's a bad idea to need an airbase in the pocket, it would make the rule virtually redundant for the Axis.Much better if HQs did the job and if also you could directly supply any division that is in an open or light woods hex.I don't think it would take long for a division to clear a temporary landing strip if their lives depended on it.

(in reply to Gargoil)
Post #: 22
RE: List of 1.05 update changes? - 8/31/2011 4:14:50 PM   
lastdingo

 

Posts: 110
Joined: 7/31/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Omat

Hello

I would like to know if the data of the Me 109 f4 is corrected. Helpless said something there is an issue. The Data for the Me-109 f2 and Me-109 f4 are the same (except arment).

http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/fb.asp?m=2834472

In beta v 1.04.39 it is the same.


Omat



These aircraft were 99.9% identical. The only difference was afaik that the MG 151 motor cannon had a 15 mm barrel in F-2 and a 20 mm barrel in F-4. It was quite the same gun; there existed merely two different calibre versions.

15 mm was more effective for good shots, 20 mm was more effective for mediocre pilots.

(in reply to Omat)
Post #: 23
RE: List of 1.05 update changes? - 8/31/2011 4:33:12 PM   
cavalry

 

Posts: 2395
Joined: 9/2/2003
From: Sampford Spiney Devon UK
Status: offline
Great revisions to national morale - would like to see further losses ( even if temporary)for Moscow, Stalingrad etc.
All looks good so far.
thanks
Cav.

(in reply to lastdingo)
Post #: 24
RE: List of 1.05 update changes? - 8/31/2011 6:06:10 PM   
tiger111

 

Posts: 434
Joined: 11/25/2005
Status: offline
Great work people!

Just a thought

IIRC the 656th Heavy Panzerjaeger Bn that had the modified Ferdinands-now called Elephants seemed to disappear from the OOB.Since we have them and historically they stayed on the Eastern Front until the end of the war.(apart from 1 coy briefly in Italy) It would be good if we had the 656th Bn.

Also if at least 1 SU Bn could receive the JagdTigers (permanently). After all we`re producing them.Pzjager Abteilung 653

Source:Heavy Pzjagers. Jentz.Doyle & Spielberger.2007

(in reply to cavalry)
Post #: 25
RE: List of 1.05 update changes? - 8/31/2011 8:16:07 PM   
Omat


Posts: 2255
Joined: 8/18/2004
Status: offline
Hello

When I read about Me 109 F2 and F4 it often it is said that the f2 used the DB 601 N engine and the F2 the DB 601E. Maybe I am wrong.

Omat

quote:

ORIGINAL: lastdingo

quote:

ORIGINAL: Omat

Hello

I would like to know if the data of the Me 109 f4 is corrected. Helpless said something there is an issue. The Data for the Me-109 f2 and Me-109 f4 are the same (except arment).

http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/fb.asp?m=2834472

In beta v 1.04.39 it is the same.


Omat



These aircraft were 99.9% identical. The only difference was afaik that the MG 151 motor cannon had a 15 mm barrel in F-2 and a 20 mm barrel in F-4. It was quite the same gun; there existed merely two different calibre versions.

15 mm was more effective for good shots, 20 mm was more effective for mediocre pilots.



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Post #: 26
RE: List of 1.05 update changes? - 8/31/2011 9:11:14 PM   
Tarhunnas


Posts: 3161
Joined: 1/27/2011
From: Hex X37, Y15
Status: offline
Yeah, never mind that the whole shape of the war from 1942 on is completely out of whack in the game. If we can just get the 505 Hvy Pz Bn and the Me 109 F4 engine number and the 656th Heavy Panzerjaeger Bn fixed we can all sleep soundly again.

(in reply to Omat)
Post #: 27
RE: List of 1.05 update changes? - 8/31/2011 9:23:58 PM   
Captain


Posts: 78
Joined: 5/1/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Omat

Hello

When I read about Me 109 F2 and F4 it often it is said that the f2 used the DB 601 N engine and the F2 the DB 601E. Maybe I am wrong.

Omat

quote:

ORIGINAL: lastdingo

quote:

ORIGINAL: Omat

Hello

I would like to know if the data of the Me 109 f4 is corrected. Helpless said something there is an issue. The Data for the Me-109 f2 and Me-109 f4 are the same (except arment).

http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/fb.asp?m=2834472

In beta v 1.04.39 it is the same.


Omat



These aircraft were 99.9% identical. The only difference was afaik that the MG 151 motor cannon had a 15 mm barrel in F-2 and a 20 mm barrel in F-4. It was quite the same gun; there existed merely two different calibre versions.

15 mm was more effective for good shots, 20 mm was more effective for mediocre pilots.




I have a reference book at home, which I am unable to check right now, but AFAIR, the F-4 had both the upgraded 20 mm cannon (vs 15 mm) and a slightly more powerful engine than the F-2.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Messerschmitt_Bf_109_variants#F-0.2C_F-1.2C_F-2

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Post #: 28
RE: List of 1.05 update changes? - 8/31/2011 9:51:41 PM   
Reconvet

 

Posts: 355
Joined: 1/17/2011
Status: offline

So the 1:1 --> 2:1 rule remains in the game?

Probably was a wet dream, but I really thought this sci fi rule was announced to get eliminated... I definitly hoped to see this gone with 1.05, at least come spring '42.



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Post #: 29
RE: List of 1.05 update changes? - 8/31/2011 9:57:32 PM   
Helpless


Posts: 15484
Joined: 8/27/2004
Status: offline
quote:

So the 1:1 --> 2:1 rule remains in the game?


No, it was replaced to 0:1 -> 3:1 and we changed the side who receives the bonus.

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WITE/WITW/WITE-2 Development

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Post #: 30
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