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New Mod Leister - Scenario 28 full Pacific War

 
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New Mod Leister - Scenario 28 full Pacific War - 8/16/2011 8:39:50 AM   
xlegendre

 

Posts: 20
Joined: 2/13/2010
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Hi all,

After 2 years working & researching, I ended a full mod for WITPAE. Main objectives were to have a complete OOB fully reviewed, and to have a more realistic pacific campaign.

The mod can be downloaded there : http://up-master.com/data/SCEN31_leistermod_v1.11.zip. You need to unzip the files in the WITPAE SCEN directory. Some graphics files should be transfered in the ART directory.

Among the main changes in the mod :

Aeronautic :
- Aircraft armement : all devices have been updated (canon, mg...), based on technical data (rythm of fire, explosives charges, velocity...)
- all aircraft have all been updated (version, models...) based on technical data available
- Aircraft production have been adapted, for the allies, based on real production data (US sources) and real allocation to Pacific Theater


Vessels :
- All japan classes fully revised
- Mains classes fully revised for the allies (CV, CVL, CVE, BB, BC, CA et CL)
- Armament : updated (canons, mg, radar, torpedo, depth charges), on the base of technical data available (range, explosive charges, rythm of fire, velocity...)


Land forces : (the main effort I have done, especially with TO&E)
- Complete review of all devices related to armament (artillery, AA, mortars, mg...)
- Complete review of squads forces, based on the historical organization of squads for each country (number of soldiers, personal weapons, shared machineguns, small mortars...)
- Full and exhaustive review of the OOB for all nation
-> Added : type B and type A squad for IJA, type A having more soldiers than type B
-> Added : update of division that are not triangularised
-> Modified : chinese corps, with different types of squad based on units belong to NRA / Kuomintang, militia, feodal warlords...
-> Added : small units for guerilla in China, appearing randomly


Whole exception :
- Nothing has been modified for soviets


I have tested and verified the balance of all items that have been modified. The results of my tests (aerial fight, land battles, aircraft against ships and fleets battles) have been posted in an Excel file there : http://up-master.com/data/Witpae-Fichiers-tests.zip :
-> Aerial fight : balance is wholy respected between quality and forces of different fighters models.
-> Land fight : Japan division are initialy well equiped and strong, until 43, same for English divisions whose country is at war for a few year. With the end of 43, allies will have at their disposal better land forces, that will become superior to IJA and IJN troops, as historically, due to better squad and artillery. This is especially true for Marine Corps unit.

For this mod, I used a large variety of information sources :

Order of Battle :
- A must : http://pwencycl.kgbudge.com/index.htm
- Another must : http://http://niehorster.orbat.com/000_admin/000oob.htm
- http://www.cgsc.edu/carl/nafziger/index.asp
- http://www.wwiivehicles.com


Japan :
- Excellent website : http://www.ibiblio.org/hyperwar/Japa...HB/HB-3.html#I
- http://www3.plala.or.jp/takihome/
- Armored forces : http://maisov.oops.jp/e/lindc1.htm
- http://www.worldlingo.com/ma/enwiki/en/List_of_Japanese_Infantry_Divisions
- http://www.combinedfleet.com/
- http://wapedia.mobi/en/Attack_on_Pearl_Harbor_order_of_battle (for KB)
- http://www.bur.st/~akbrown/witp/CHS_documentation/Japan_land.html#table1 (work of Andrew Brown on land units of IJA)
- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Structure_of_the_Imperial_Japanese_forces_in_the_South_Pacific_Mandate#Eniwetok_Atoll_Fortress (IJN units in the Pacific)
- http://www.scribd.com/doc/44627945/Elite-Japanese-Paratroop-Forces-of-WWII (para units)
- http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?f=33&t=105384&start=30 (Thaï/Siam army)


United States of America :
- http://www.ibiblio.org/hyperwar/USMC/V/USMC-V-K.html
- http://www.militaryhistoryonline.com/wwii/usarmy/cavalry.aspx
- http://books.google.fr/books?id=y56Dut69s5UC&pg=PA214&lpg=PA214&dq=1st+usmc+seacoast+battalion&source=bl&ots=uDBdOVadqZ&sig=0EqdtNuiRYFtS7908aAZ4cApPYM&hl=fr&ei=IVb8TeGiFsax8gO2kfypCQ&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=5&ved=0CEAQ6AEwBA#v=onepage&q=1st%20usmc%20seacoast%20battalion&f=false (Marine Corps)
- http://www.ibiblio.org/hyperwar/USMC/V/USMC-V-K.html (Marine Corps)
- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_States_Marine_Corps_battalions#Armored_Amphibian_Tractor_battalions (Marine Corps)
- http://www.ibiblio.org/hyperwar/AAF/VII/AAF-VII-10.html (EAB US)
- http://www.ibiblio.org/hyperwar/USN/Building_Bases/bases-app.html (engineers units)
- http://www.cbi-history.com/part_iv_eng.html#11 (engineers units)
- http://books.google.fr/books?id=uf5Pi77k1GMC&pg=PT100&lpg=PT100&dq=259th+coastal+artillery&source=bl&ots=21vWxlXEtY&sig=JpLSDvIRlS91k669P8DjPXxK2dg&hl=fr&ei=cAH7TYrrPI-6hAfYweW3Aw&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=2&ved=0CCEQ6AEwAQ#v=onepage&q&f=false (coastal defences)
- http://www.tankdestroyer.net/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=306:670th-tank-destroyer-battalion&catid=43:battalions600s&Itemid=101 (tank destroyers units)
- http://www.cgsc.edu/CARL/nafziger/941UXAD.PDF (AA units)
- http://www.unithistories.com/units_index/default.asp?file=../units/units_american.asp (OOB)
- http://www.cdsg.org/reprint%20PDFs/CACregList.pdf (coastal artillery)
- http://www.cdsg.org/pacific.htm (coastal defences)
- http://www.navsource.org/Naval/usarmy.htm (OOB)
- http://www.milhist.net/ordbat/ordbatusd.html (OOB)
- http://www.history.navy.mil/a-record/ww-ii/loc-ac/loc-ac.htm (production, and OOB of aerial units of american marines in the Pacific)


Commonwealth :
- http://web.me.com/dryan671/ordersofbattle/Welcome.html (Commonwealth)
- http://homepages.force9.net/rothwell/ (Commonwealth)
- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_British_Divisions_in_World_War_II
- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Indian_Divisions_in_World_War_II
- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_British_colonial_divisions_in_World_War_II
- http://www.awm.gov.au/atwar/structure/army_detailed_structure.asp (Australia)
- http://riv.co.nz/rnza/index.htm (New Zealand artillery units)
- http://www.canadiansoldiers.com/organization/fieldforces/canadianarmypacificforce.htm (Canadian army in the Pacific)


China :
- http://ww2total.com/WW2/History/Orders-of-Battle/China/Chinese-Forces-1939.htm
- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Revolutionary_Army
- http://www.alternatehistory.com/discussion/showthread.php?t=141029&page=5


Netherlands(East Indies) :
- http://www.oocities.com/dutcheastindies/Dutch_OOB.html (aircraft)
- http://www.oocities.com/dutcheastindies/KNIL_armour.html (tanks)
- http://www.waroverholland.nl/index.php?page=howitzers-120-mm-and-150-mm (coastal artillery)
- http://www.overvalwagen.com/KNILartillery.html (artillery)
- http://www.dutcheastindies.iblogger.org/index.html


Naval vessels :
- Conways All the World's Fighting Ships 1922-1946
- www.combinet.fleet (flotte japonaise)
- http://www.netherlandsnavy.nl/ (netherlands fleet)


Aircraft, tanks :
http://www.wwiivehicles.com
- Combat Aircraft, de Bill Gunston, éditions Salamander
- Les avions - 4/La seconde guerre mondiale (USA, Japon, URSS...) de E. Angelucci et P. Matricardi, éditions Bordas
- Les chasseurs américains de la guerre du Pacifique, de Bernard Millot, éditions Larivière
- American Warplanes, de Bill Gunston, éditions Salamander
- The American Fighter, d'Enzo Angelucci et Peter Bowers, éditions Haynes


Vessels and aircraft armament :
- http://www.navweaps.com/Weapons/index_weapons.htm (marine)
- http://www.navypedia.org/index.htm (a must)
- http://navalhistory.flixco.info/H/bx119821/1668/r0.htm
- http://www.quarry.nildram.co.uk (aircraft guns, a must)
- http://www.combinedfleet.com (japan marine)
- http://navalhistory.flixco.info/H/93745x263540/259869/c0.htm


Land armament, squad composition, battalion organisation... :
- Le must : http://www.bayonetstrength.150m.com/
- http://ww2db.com/weapon.php?list=A
- http://www.militaryhistoryonline.com/wwii/usarmy/artillery.aspx
- http://deuxiemeguerremondia.forumactif.com/t8521-performances-antichars-comparees (guns performance)
- http://www.tarrif.net/cgi/production/all_penetration_adv.php (guns performance)
- http://afvdb.50megs.com/usa/index.html (US vehicles)
- http://lemairesoft.sytes.net:1945/webfr/char/edito/3398.html#18087 (tanks, artillery...)
- http://www.tarrif.net/ (artillery)
- http://nigelef.tripod.com/72inchsheet.htm (commonwealth artillery)


And several others websites, depending on specific researches I made to realize this mod.

Nota 2011/08/30 : mod updated in v1.11.

< Message edited by leister2 -- 8/30/2011 8:07:15 PM >
Post #: 1
RE: New Mod Leister - Scenario 28 full Pacific War - 8/16/2011 9:11:37 AM   
JeffroK


Posts: 6306
Joined: 1/26/2005
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I've downloaded and am having a look.

May I suggest you pick another scenario number as the DBB scenario already has taken No 28.

There should be a register!!!


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Post #: 2
RE: New Mod Leister - Scenario 28 full Pacific War - 8/16/2011 9:44:01 AM   
JeffroK


Posts: 6306
Joined: 1/26/2005
Status: offline
Your use of 2nd Australian IF as a command is incorrect, they should be commanded by a Corps or Army.

The 2nd AIF isnt a command, it covers all of those Australians who volunteered for overseas duty versus Commonwealth Military Forces or Militia who either volunteered for service in Australia only or were drafeted for Universal Service.

Its more like the British Territorial Army or American National Guard.

ABDACOM should be ABDA

7th Hussars Brigade and 2nd Royal Tank Brigade should be 7th Hussars and 2nd Royal Tank Regiment. Both are British Regiments of Battalion size. (Idont add the suffix for this type of unit)

50th Tank Bde sbe 50th Indian Tank Bde

1st Aust Motor Bde & 1st Aust Cavalry Bde both start at Cairns, they are the same unit. It should be 1st Cavalry Bde and start its 2 Motor Regiments,  5th at Gympie (about 100 miles nth of Brisbane) and 11th at Gatton (Brisbane)

Give your information another check, its good to see a different approach to some of the data.



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RE: New Mod Leister - Scenario 28 full Pacific War - 8/16/2011 6:42:33 PM   
xlegendre

 

Posts: 20
Joined: 2/13/2010
Status: offline
Hi Jeffk,

Thanks for your answers, goal is to tune what can be done based on information we could share. If there is others items to correct, please do not hesitate, I will check and correct each time it is needed (as long I have time to do so).

About australian forces :
There is confusion between 1st Cavalry Brigade, 1st Motorized Brigade and 1st Armoured Brigade. In fact there is one more unit that it should be. Things will be corrected in this way :
- 1st Aus Cav Bde in Cairns, that become 1st Motor Bde in April 42.
- 1st Armored Bde, that start in Tamworth and composed of 2/5, 2/6 and 2/7 armored rgt.
- 1st Motor Bde in slot 6660 will be deleted, it was redundant with 1st Armored Bde.

About 50th Tank Bde : ok renamed

About 7th Armoured Bde / 7th Hussars : in fact, 7th Hussars and 2nd Royal Tank Rgt were part of 7th Armoured Bde. Changed this in these two LCU prim unit, and changed departure date of 7th Armoured Bde to 430401. Changed name of these two subunits as you pointed.

About Abdacom : this is an abbreviation for ABDA Command. Abdacom is sometimes use, this is the same. Renamed ABDA Command.

About 2nd AIF : ok renamed back to Australia Command, It was mainly to distinguish the CMF forces that were on duty in Australia mainland, and the 2nd AIF whose aim was to send soldiers abroad.

Here the new updated version v1.01: http://up-master.com/data/SCEN31_leistermod_v1.01.zip.

Mod relocated in slot 31.

< Message edited by leister2 -- 8/16/2011 6:50:57 PM >

(in reply to JeffroK)
Post #: 4
RE: New Mod Leister - Scenario 28 full Pacific War - 8/16/2011 8:52:28 PM   
JWE

 

Posts: 6580
Joined: 7/19/2005
Status: offline
Am interested in the philosophy behind your data changes. Will only discuss off line. If you are interested in discussing, please send pm.

send me an email, and I'll return with same. We can then engage privately.

Ciao. J

< Message edited by JWE -- 8/16/2011 8:53:43 PM >


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Post #: 5
RE: New Mod Leister - Scenario 28 full Pacific War - 8/16/2011 11:28:26 PM   
JeffroK


Posts: 6306
Joined: 1/26/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: leister2

Hi Jeffk,

Thanks for your answers, goal is to tune what can be done based on information we could share. If there is others items to correct, please do not hesitate, I will check and correct each time it is needed (as long I have time to do so).

About australian forces :
There is confusion between 1st Cavalry Brigade, 1st Motorized Brigade and 1st Armoured Brigade. In fact there is one more unit that it should be. Things will be corrected in this way :
- 1st Aus Cav Bde in Cairns, that become 1st Motor Bde in April 42.
- 1st Armored Bde, that start in Tamworth and composed of 2/5, 2/6 and 2/7 armored rgt.
- 1st Motor Bde in slot 6660 will be deleted, it was redundant with 1st Armored Bde.

About 50th Tank Bde : ok renamed

About 7th Armoured Bde / 7th Hussars : in fact, 7th Hussars and 2nd Royal Tank Rgt were part of 7th Armoured Bde. Changed this in these two LCU prim unit, and changed departure date of 7th Armoured Bde to 430401. Changed name of these two subunits as you pointed.

About Abdacom : this is an abbreviation for ABDA Command. Abdacom is sometimes use, this is the same. Renamed ABDA Command.

About 2nd AIF : ok renamed back to Australia Command, It was mainly to distinguish the CMF forces that were on duty in Australia mainland, and the 2nd AIF whose aim was to send soldiers abroad.

Here the new updated version v1.01: http://up-master.com/data/SCEN31_leistermod_v1.01.zip.

Mod relocated in slot 31.


I'll PM you a list of Australian at start units and suggested set up locations, some are spread out so a decision has to be taken.

1st Cavalry Bde became 1st Motor Bde, definatly by May 42 but I'll find a firm date. A problem with some locatuions is that you get the HQ location and in many cases the sub units were spread around the countryside.

Re Canberra, Australia would never consider its politicians worth defending, those units are out of place. (And the town was only about 20 years old at the time, burn it down!!!

Others I noted in a quick check, you have 2 x 2nd Armoured Rgts, the one on Brisbane should be 2nd Recce Battalion, the other structured as if a Motor Battalion but not at full strength.

8th Armoured Rgt at Melbourne should be 8th Light Horse Rgt, it became 8th Recce Bn a bit later.

13th Infantry Bde arrives in Darwin on the reo schedule , it also starts the game in Perth? (IRL the Bde moves from Perth to Darwin) I didnt check, does the original get withdrawn?

To others, an interesting idea Leister has tried is to have multple versions of the same aircraft with different arrival dates , I believe this is so you can tweak increased arrival rates rather than have a straight line for all aircraft. My only thought is you cant mix these in the same squadron but maybe it works OK.

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Post #: 6
RE: New Mod Leister - Scenario 28 full Pacific War - 8/17/2011 5:14:01 PM   
xlegendre

 

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Joined: 2/13/2010
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Ok thanks Jeffk, if you have info about australian army I will update. Location of subunits is mainly based on niehorster.orbat.com OOB website, this is why you have battalion in many different locations. When the site is not defined in WITPAE, I located the unit in the nearest city, like Canberra

About the 2x2nd Armored Rgt, you are right : one is the 2nd reconnaissance rgt (ex 2/14th Light Horse Rgt), the other one is the 2nd Recon Bn of the 1st CMF Cav Div. Renamed these two units accordingly.

About 8th Light Horse Rgt subunit of the 3rd CMF Div, it was renamed as the 8th Reconnaissance Rgt right ?

About 13th Infantry Bde, this is a mistake of mine, I added it with Northern Territory Force (12th Div). As Northern Territory Force included different brigades depending on period, and as some brigades were already subunits of existing div (19th bde for 6th div for example), I choose 3rd, 12th and 13th bde to be attached to Northern Territory Force. So, 13th Australian Bde of slot 6630 has been deleted, was redundant with slot 6599. Thanks for your insight.


Last, about aircraft production and specially for US, the use of several slots for the same aircraft version is the only mean I found to allow a pseudo "production increase" with time passing. It allows to reflect the fact that new production plants were installed by the US, as it was the case for F6F, B-24, B-25...

(in reply to JeffroK)
Post #: 7
RE: New Mod Leister - Scenario 28 full Pacific War - 8/17/2011 11:18:24 PM   
JeffroK


Posts: 6306
Joined: 1/26/2005
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Be careful about Niehorster, he has a lot of misnamed units, especially in the British system which he got regularly wrong, maybe a bad spellchecker.

Half right for 2nd Armoured Rgt, 2nd Recce Bn is correct, there was a 2nd Armoured Rgt though at a Motor Rgt TOE

2nd Light Horse Regiment (Moreton Light Horse)
Formed 2nd Recce Battalion
The 2nd Light Horse Regiment (Moreton Light Horse) (QMI) was a Light Horse militia unit in Queensland. On 1st October, 1918 as part of a army renumbering scheme, it became the 2nd Light Horse Regiment (Moreton Light Horse) (QMI). This scheme was adopted so that Citizen Military Force (CMF) units would take on the numerical designations of their A.I.F. counterparts which had been raised in the same areas. The 2nd Light Horse Regiment (Moreton Light Horse) (QMI) adopted the battle honours of the 2nd Light Horse Regiment A.I.F.
After several redesignations, it was disbanded on 29th July, 1943.
2nd Light Horse Regiment Lineage
2nd Light Horse (Moreton Light Horse) (QMI) - 1921
Linked with 14th Light Horse (West Moreton Light Horse) (QMI) to form 2nd/14th Light Horse - 1930
Unlinked to become 2nd Light Horse (Moreton Light Horse) (QMI) - 30th August, 1940
2nd Reconnaissance Battalion, Moreton Light Horse (QMI) - 1st December, 1941
2nd Australian Divisional Cavalry Regiment, Moreton Light Horse (QMI) - 23rd September, 1942


2nd Armoured Regiment.
7/12/41 1st Cavalry Division troops (Wagga Wagga would be OK)
6/5/42 4th Motor Brigade West Maitland
2nd Tank Battalion 18/9/43 Singleton 2nd Army Troops
In January 1940 the 2nd Armoured Car Regiment was renamed 2nd Armoured Regiment, after a brief renaming as 14th Light Horse Regiment in June 1940 the Regiment relocated to Cowra. At the outbreak of war the Regiment sent armoured car troops to various coastal locations.
After moving to Greta in 1942 the unit was renamed 2nd Army Tank Battalion and in July received its first Matilda II tanks.
In January 1943 all AFV and 190 personnel were transferred to 1st Army Tank Battalion. After a short period new M3 Lee Tanks were received and despite continued trained with USN LST's were not considered for deployment in New Guinea. The Regiment was disbanded in mid 1944.

8th Light Horse Regiment. (Indi Light Horse)
7/12/41 2nd Cavalry Division Troops – Werribee (Melbourne or Geelong would be OK)
The 8th Light Horse (Indi Light Horse) was a Light Horse militia unit in Victoria. It was disbanded on 7th June, 1944.
8th Light Horse Regiment Lineage
8th Australian Light Horse Regiment (Victorian Mounted Rifles) - 1903
16th Light Horse Regiment (Victorian Mounted Rifles) - 1912
16th (Indi) Light Horse - 1913
8th (Indi) Light Horse - 1918
8th Light Horse to provide nucleus for 22nd Light Horse (in 2nd Military District) - 1919
8th Light Horse Regiment (Indi Light Horse) - 1921
8th Reconnaissance Battalion (Indi Light Horse) - 1st December, 1941
8th Australian Divisional Cavalry Regiment (Indi Light Horse) - 13th July, 1942
8th Australian Cavalry Regiment - 1942
Disbanded - March, 1944


I'm interested to see how your Aircraft product idea pans out.

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RE: New Mod Leister - Scenario 28 full Pacific War - 8/20/2011 9:35:50 AM   
xlegendre

 

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Mod updated following data exchange with JeffK, cf. start of the thread

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Post #: 9
RE: New Mod Leister - Scenario 28 full Pacific War - 8/20/2011 2:00:54 PM   
Blackhorse


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quote:

-> Added : small units for guerilla in China, appearing randomly


Can you describe how this works? How do you get LCUs to appear randomly?

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Post #: 10
RE: New Mod Leister - Scenario 28 full Pacific War - 8/20/2011 2:10:53 PM   
xlegendre

 

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Well, this is a pseudo random way of doing : I added more than 30 communist guerilla units, that will appear at given date and in a given zone through China, in an attempt to simulate guerilla warfare. Using the +/- 60 days for renforcement, it allow this pseudo random way of doing.

As year will pass, these units will grow in size and strength. The IJA players will be forced to keep some strength to garrison china cities in order to garrison them to avoid damage but also to fight guerilla units.

(in reply to Blackhorse)
Post #: 11
RE: New Mod Leister - Scenario 28 full Pacific War - 8/20/2011 4:56:50 PM   
Blackhorse


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quote:

ORIGINAL: leister2

Well, this is a pseudo random way of doing : I added more than 30 communist guerilla units, that will appear at given date and in a given zone through China, in an attempt to simulate guerilla warfare. Using the +/- 60 days for renforcement, it allow this pseudo random way of doing.

As year will pass, these units will grow in size and strength. The IJA players will be forced to keep some strength to garrison china cities in order to garrison them to avoid damage but also to fight guerilla units.



Have you tested this? I thought the game system requires LCU reinforcements to arrive at a friendly-controlled base. So long as the Japanese hold the base (I don't think they even have to garrison it) the guerilla unit won't arrive (or may appear instead in Chungking). LCU's that arrive won't grow in strength unless they have a source of supplies.

I don't mean to throw cold water on your idea -- it is excellent -- but I've seen others puzzle about how to simulate the guerrilla war vs. Japan and walk away frustrated. If you have found a way to make it work, then kudos.


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Oddball: Why don't you knock it off with them negative waves? Why don't you dig how beautiful it is out here? Why don't you say something righteous and hopeful for a change?
Moriarty: Crap!

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Post #: 12
RE: New Mod Leister - Scenario 28 full Pacific War - 8/20/2011 5:06:02 PM   
xlegendre

 

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Well, this is to be tested. I begin 2 differents games as Japan, I will question my opponents to know if it works.

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Post #: 13
RE: New Mod Leister - Scenario 28 full Pacific War - 8/20/2011 5:53:48 PM   
Blackhorse


Posts: 1958
Joined: 8/20/2000
From: Eastern US
Status: offline
I look forward to see your results. Good luck!

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Oddball: Why don't you knock it off with them negative waves? Why don't you dig how beautiful it is out here? Why don't you say something righteous and hopeful for a change?
Moriarty: Crap!

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Post #: 14
RE: New Mod Leister - Scenario 28 full Pacific War - 8/30/2011 5:32:10 PM   
HerzKaraya


Posts: 189
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From: Madrid, Spain
Status: offline
Hello Leister 2,

I have downloaded both your 28 and 31 scenario and am not able to make them work with the editor nor the game.
All other scenarios do work, even some mods of my own.
Have copied all files into scen folder except the Art.
Any ideas? I seem to be missing the aei031.dat file

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RE: New Mod Leister - Scenario 28 full Pacific War - 8/30/2011 8:07:46 PM   
xlegendre

 

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Hi,

I updated the link and the zip file. You are right, the aei031.dat file was missing.

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Post #: 16
RE: New Mod Leister - Scenario 28 full Pacific War - 9/5/2011 9:43:42 AM   
CaptBeefheart


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Leister2: This is monumental work and should be commended.

Can you give us some idea of your aviation changes, such as what production disfferences you found? Did you account for some production being used for new units, for instance? I'm just trying to get a feel for what you've done before diving in.

Cheers,
CC

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Post #: 17
RE: New Mod Leister - Scenario 28 full Pacific War - 9/5/2011 4:45:42 PM   
xnavytc

 

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Leister2, I downloaded the new updated link but the game says the scenario failed to load. I looked in the extracted files and the aei031.dat file is not there, any help would be apprecaited.

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Post #: 18
RE: New Mod Leister - Scenario 28 full Pacific War - 9/5/2011 4:47:09 PM   
xnavytc

 

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never mind, i found the right one. looks good so far

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Post #: 19
RE: New Mod Leister - Scenario 28 full Pacific War - 9/5/2011 7:40:38 PM   
hades1001

 

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Hi I'm reviewing the Allied Aircraft production. There is a few type of planes with 0 production rate and 0 replacement rate.
Would please please take a look at it? For example, US Army fighter bombers P-40M and P47-25D thunderbolt.

Or may be you did this in purpose?

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Post #: 20
RE: New Mod Leister - Scenario 28 full Pacific War - 9/5/2011 10:31:29 PM   
xlegendre

 

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Hi,

here some answers.

To Commander Cody

Aviation changes is mainly based on :
- Adapt characteristics to historical value (speed, range, armament...)
- Adapt characteristics of weapons (mg, canons), based on data available on effectiveness (see http://www.quarry.nildram.co.uk)
- Adapt production for allies, based on historical data available about Pacific Theater : two key-documents
-> NAVAL AVIATION COMBAT STATISTICS—WORLD WAR II of the AIR BRANCH OPNAV-P-23V NO. A129 17 JUNE 1946 OFFICE OF NAVAL INTELLIGENCE OFFICE OF THE CHIEF OF NAVAL OPERATIONS NAVY DEPARTMENT WASHINGTON, D. C.
-> AFD-090608-042.pdf, published on the web site of a research institute of the USAAF (sorry I can not remember the web site)

A useful link is also http://www.history.navy.mil/a-record/ww-ii/loc-ac/loc-ac.htm, who supply the location of US marines aircraft for different periods.

After updating data, I tested and adjusted durability and maneuver items to obtain correct results in terms of success depending on type of aircrafts (ex : A6M2 versus F4F-4, Ki-84-Ia versus P-51D...).

Main differences I found was :
- non realistic result, A6M was quite inefficient against even no-modern allied fighters
- B-17 production is too important in WITPAE, B-17 was used early in the Pacific War but was then withdraw for Europe Theater and replaced by B-24, more adapted to long range bombing and scouting
- data for mg / canon not accurate in terms of damage / efficiency


To hades1001 :

P-47D-25 is a sub-series of P-47D, and has exactly the same characteristics. It is not useful. P-47D (slot 349) will upgrade to P-47D (slot 516) to reflect increased production. Same for P-47D-25 (slot 350) whose production is 0, that will upgrade to P-47D-25 (slot 366) to obtain a boosted US Thunderbolt production nearly the end of the war.

About P-40M, this is a choice, because P-40L was producted in a large quantities and then replaced by the final version P-40N. Moreover the production duration is very limited : 4 month to obtain 80 planes (20 per month during 4 month).

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Post #: 21
RE: New Mod Leister - Scenario 28 full Pacific War - 9/5/2011 11:06:04 PM   
hades1001

 

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How about making the IJN Jack and George carrier capable while USN Corsair is not.

The first available Jack could be as early as 12/42. How many Sentais can be upgraded to Jack and George?
Has the carrier battle be tested? I kind feel that the IJN carriers would be too strong if all IJN Sentais can be upgraded to Jack and George.


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Post #: 22
RE: New Mod Leister - Scenario 28 full Pacific War - 9/5/2011 11:35:11 PM   
hades1001

 

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Also the anti-soft and anti-armor capabilities of IJ infantry squadrons are boosted so much while the Allied infantries lost a good trunk of its anti-soft and anti-armor capabilities.

Would you please explain the reason behind this change?

I just feel its weird that IJ infantry squadrons are as powerful as the US infantry squadrons if not better. They are not even close.

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Post #: 23
RE: New Mod Leister - Scenario 28 full Pacific War - 9/5/2011 11:37:38 PM   
PaxMondo


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quote:

ORIGINAL: hades1001

How about making the IJN Jack and George carrier capable while USN Corsair is not.

The first available Jack could be as early as 12/42. How many Sentais can be upgraded to Jack and George?
Has the carrier battle be tested? I kind feel that the IJN carriers would be too strong if all IJN Sentais can be upgraded to Jack and George.



In my personal mod, I make the Jack and George carrier capable, but only so the most sentai can upgrade to them. I then have a house rule that they can't be used offensively from CV's. So, if you convert, the squadron becomes LBA. Which is fine as it allows you to upgrade air groups from lost CV's to something quite useful.

I'm not sure about the Jack, but the George was so high centered, it really would have been an unlikely CV fighter.

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Post #: 24
RE: New Mod Leister - Scenario 28 full Pacific War - 9/6/2011 6:49:09 AM   
xlegendre

 

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PaxMondo is right : about George and Jack, the objective is to allow A6M land-based sentai to be upgraded to such models, but it is forbidden (through a house rule presented in the mod) to upgrade carrier-based A6M sentai to these last.

About IJ squads, this is based on squad components (number of soldiers, number and type of both personal and support weapons...). An excellent web site for allied is http://www.bayonetstrength.150m.com , and for Japan http://www.ibiblio.org/hyperwar/Japa...HB/HB-3.html#I.

You must take in account that IJA squad were formed of nearly 14 men and that were was a specific 14-men squad equipped with "knees" mortar of 50mm for each 3 "rifle" squad. As I did not include "mortar" squad, I upgraded the IJA squad to reflect the impact of these support weapons.

On the other side, please consider the british squad, who was "only" 12-men strong.

For USA, you will see that in 41 and 42, of course, US squads are not so strong. But it is reversed in 43 and more in 44, with combat value far more important than IJA : IJA do not upgrade during the course of the war, but US squad were better equiped each year passing, especially marines squad with a lot of MG in "type F" and "type G" marines squads.

I do not remember if I posted data I used for squads and devices (AFV, artillery, AA) on Internet, please check http://up-master.com/data/Witpae-Fichiers-tests.zip.

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Post #: 25
RE: New Mod Leister - Scenario 28 full Pacific War - 9/6/2011 2:12:31 PM   
hades1001

 

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Here is some of my observations:

A full strength JAP Div has over 500 AV while the US marine Div only have around 300 AV(I don't know why all the MMG sqds were not counted as part of the AV). These changes make me wonder what the land combat results would those changes lead to.

Despite the initial exp and morale advantages of the IJ LCUs, the allied LCUs are much less effective, with less AV in each Div and Bde. Is there any measures to balance this situation?

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Post #: 26
RE: New Mod Leister - Scenario 28 full Pacific War - 9/6/2011 6:09:16 PM   
xlegendre

 

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As I mentioned it before, I tested battle result with all that was modded. The result is in the Excel files zipped in the zip files, you have the link just above.

D type Marine Division is quite inferior to IJA standard triangular division with a ratio of 0,9 in terms of squad destroyed / disabled.

But in 42, Marine division should upgrade to E-type, then to F and G type with years passing. And the ratio become 2, in favor of allied : IJA division loose twice more squads than US counterpart.

So it reflects the fact that US Marines are well equiped with superior weapons beginning I think in the mid of 42, before Guadalcanal.

Please check.

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Post #: 27
RE: New Mod Leister - Scenario 28 full Pacific War - 9/6/2011 7:14:19 PM   
mike scholl 1

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: hades1001
A full strength JAP Div has over 500 AV while the US@marine Div only have around 300 AV(I don't know why all the MMG sqds were not counted as part of the AV). These changes make me wonder what the land combat results would those changes lead to.

Despite the initial exp and morale advantages of the IJ LCUs, the allied LCUs are much less effective, with less AV in each Div and Bde. Is there any measures to balance this situation?



THE major killing instrament of the Second World War was artillery..., and Japanese artillery was lousy. Obsolete designs, poor fire control, lack of radios, you name it and the Japanese didn't have it. Whereas the Western Allies had the beest artillery and fire control of all the waring powers. The proof is in the pudding..., and the only successes the IJA had after the initial surprise wore off consisted of holding out in caves and fortifications longer than expected. Their offensive efforts always ended in total futility and disaster.

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Post #: 28
RE: New Mod Leister - Scenario 28 full Pacific War - 9/6/2011 7:30:08 PM   
Nikademus


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quote:

ORIGINAL: hades1001

Here is some of my observations:

A full strength JAP Div has over 500 AV while the US@marine Div only have around 300 AV(I don't know why all the MMG sqds were not counted as part of the AV). These changes make me wonder what the land combat results would those changes lead to.

Despite the initial exp and morale advantages of the IJ LCUs, the allied LCUs are much less effective, with less AV in each Div and Bde. Is there any measures to balance this situation?


Remember that unadjusted AV is simply an add-up of device values. There's no attempt at effect comparison. Simple example is a Tank device. whether a tankette or a JS-III. Both add one to unadjusted AV. (i.e. If two different LCU's contained one example of one device.....say LCU A contains 1 x Tankette and LCU B contains 1 x JS-III (Heavy tank)....they'd both have the same AV (unadjusted) which would be 1.)





< Message edited by Nikademus -- 9/6/2011 7:32:06 PM >


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Post #: 29
RE: New Mod Leister - Scenario 28 full Pacific War - 9/6/2011 7:47:19 PM   
xlegendre

 

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Nikademus is right, the Marine squad improves greatly in both soft and hard attack through the year, from D-type to G-type all along the war. It count only as 1 AV, like a chinese squad, but it has only no sense to compare these two : on one side chinese were poor soldiers, with few equipment, on other side you have a E marine squad full of mortar and mg for support weapons. Still only 1 AV for each, but the soft and attack value will make the difference, as well as many other parameters (being tired, leader's abilities, type of landscape, disruption...).

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Post #: 30
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