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Patrol Planes do not use supply with AV in port

 
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Patrol Planes do not use supply with AV in port - 7/2/2011 8:32:22 AM   
inqistor


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I am making some testing about supply usage by planes, and it seems, that when AV ship is present in port, Patrol Planes suddenly do not use supply for Search missions. This works only for AV, neither AVP, nor CS will cause this.

If problem would be checked by michaelm, I think that my last test scenario (102), which you recently checked because there was no air groups on-map, should have already Marcus Island configured for this test. Just get AV ship from port, and suddenly Patrol Planes will begin using supply.


This could somehow be designed, but surely should work identical for both AV, and AVP.
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RE: Patrol Planes do not use supply with AV in port - 7/2/2011 10:35:24 AM   
michaelm75au


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Seaplane support at a base will allow patrol planes to fly without supply. Once there is not enough seaplane support, it uses the base supply.

Once the AV leaves the base hex, the planes would use the base supply.

edit
Classes that add to seaplane support are CS, AV, AVD, AVP with aviation support

< Message edited by michaelm -- 7/2/2011 11:52:05 AM >


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Michael

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RE: Patrol Planes do not use supply with AV in port - 7/2/2011 11:08:10 AM   
herwin

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: michaelm

Seaplane support at a base will allow patrol planes to fly without supply. Once there is not enough seaplane support, it uses the base supply.

Once the AV leaves the base hex, the planes would use the base supply.



Does the supply on the AV get drawn down?

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Harry Erwin
"For a number to make sense in the game, someone has to calibrate it and program code. There are too many significant numbers that behave non-linearly to expect that. It's just a game. Enjoy it." herwin@btinternet.com

(in reply to michaelm75au)
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RE: Patrol Planes do not use supply with AV in port - 7/2/2011 12:09:08 PM   
michaelm75au


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No 'supply' is used in creating the patrols. The seaplane support acts as the 'supply'.
Once there is no support left, it will use the supply at the base.

Supply on ships is used up with aviation support.


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Michael

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RE: Patrol Planes do not use supply with AV in port - 7/2/2011 6:19:26 PM   
CV 2

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: michaelm

No 'supply' is used in creating the patrols. The seaplane support acts as the 'supply'.
Once there is no support left, it will use the supply at the base.

Supply on ships is used up with aviation support.



If true, then this is new since "i". I have a 4 plane squadron on a dot base off Oz with an AVP as support (160 supply cap). There are 5 pilots in the unit. They have flown 106, 151, 158, 168, and 202 missions respectively. The AVP has 152 supplies still aboard. While I dont know the exact date they were sent there, I know it has been over 6 months. The unit is flying 60% search.

(in reply to michaelm75au)
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RE: Patrol Planes do not use supply with AV in port - 7/2/2011 11:59:01 PM   
michaelm75au


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No this has been that way since build 1103. So it was in 1106i.
There was inconsistency with how AV/CS/AVD/AVP worked with float planes. (Had to do with AVP bug IIRC)

This was to bring it into line with AVs that had organic float groups attached to ship. If you put the group ashore at a dot base, then it couldn't fly if there were no supply. But it back and it could.

The supply could be burned during aviation support phase where planes are repaired and maintained.

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Michael

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RE: Patrol Planes do not use supply with AV in port - 7/3/2011 12:04:34 AM   
michaelm75au


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quote:

ORIGINAL: CV 2


quote:

ORIGINAL: michaelm

No 'supply' is used in creating the patrols. The seaplane support acts as the 'supply'.
Once there is no support left, it will use the supply at the base.

Supply on ships is used up with aviation support.



If true, then this is new since "i". I have a 4 plane squadron on a dot base off Oz with an AVP as support (160 supply cap). There are 5 pilots in the unit. They have flown 106, 151, 158, 168, and 202 missions respectively. The AVP has 152 supplies still aboard. While I dont know the exact date they were sent there, I know it has been over 6 months. The unit is flying 60% search.


8 supply points expanded over 6 months IS highly unlikely to have been used up for flying ops. Even at one supply per day thats only 8 days flying.

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Michael

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RE: Patrol Planes do not use supply with AV in port - 7/3/2011 12:32:42 PM   
CV 2

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: michaelm


quote:

ORIGINAL: CV 2


quote:

ORIGINAL: michaelm

No 'supply' is used in creating the patrols. The seaplane support acts as the 'supply'.
Once there is no support left, it will use the supply at the base.

Supply on ships is used up with aviation support.



If true, then this is new since "i". I have a 4 plane squadron on a dot base off Oz with an AVP as support (160 supply cap). There are 5 pilots in the unit. They have flown 106, 151, 158, 168, and 202 missions respectively. The AVP has 152 supplies still aboard. While I dont know the exact date they were sent there, I know it has been over 6 months. The unit is flying 60% search.


8 supply points expanded over 6 months IS highly unlikely to have been used up for flying ops. Even at one supply per day thats only 8 days flying.


Is it possible that the supplies are only being deducted if the planes actually see something? They are in a backwater and in the 6+ months they have been there, the Japs probably have only been in their spotting range maybe 8 total days.

(in reply to michaelm75au)
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RE: Patrol Planes do not use supply with AV in port - 7/3/2011 12:54:34 PM   
michaelm75au


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From: Melbourne, Australia
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quote:

ORIGINAL: CV 2


quote:

ORIGINAL: michaelm


quote:

ORIGINAL: CV 2


quote:

ORIGINAL: michaelm

No 'supply' is used in creating the patrols. The seaplane support acts as the 'supply'.
Once there is no support left, it will use the supply at the base.

Supply on ships is used up with aviation support.



If true, then this is new since "i". I have a 4 plane squadron on a dot base off Oz with an AVP as support (160 supply cap). There are 5 pilots in the unit. They have flown 106, 151, 158, 168, and 202 missions respectively. The AVP has 152 supplies still aboard. While I dont know the exact date they were sent there, I know it has been over 6 months. The unit is flying 60% search.


8 supply points expanded over 6 months IS highly unlikely to have been used up for flying ops. Even at one supply per day thats only 8 days flying.


Is it possible that the supplies are only being deducted if the planes actually see something? They are in a backwater and in the 6+ months they have been there, the Japs probably have only been in their spotting range maybe 8 total days.

But supply would have been expended each time the planes flew, regardless if anything was spotted or not. It needs supply (or seaplane support)to actually launch the planes in the search phase. No supply or seaplane support, then there shouldn't be any planes searching.


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Michael

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RE: Patrol Planes do not use supply with AV in port - 7/3/2011 1:09:37 PM   
CV 2

 

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I agree that this is the way it SHOULD work. What I am asking is maybe its an oversight in the code where supply is only being deducted if the enemy is actually near.

And it wont let me attach a save. Will e mail, but is there a forum setting that prevents it? Havent been able to post jpegs even either since the forum changed months ago.

(in reply to michaelm75au)
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RE: Patrol Planes do not use supply with AV in port - 7/3/2011 2:31:22 PM   
michaelm75au


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quote:

ORIGINAL: CV 2

I agree that this is the way it SHOULD work. What I am asking is maybe its an oversight in the code where supply is only being deducted if the enemy is actually near.


Nope.

But there is a logic hole in patrol planes launched on a strike mission. They don't seem to be getting supply deducted when arming for a strike. I need to work thru some examples to see if this is so.

This might be interesting reason for all those patrol planes on strikes that I seem to see in saves.

[edit] Looking at it, it may be similar to the original bug (from patch 4 IIRC) that only seemed to affect searches.

< Message edited by michaelm -- 7/3/2011 2:33:03 PM >


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Michael

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Post #: 11
RE: Patrol Planes and AV - 7/7/2011 1:57:45 PM   
michaelm75au


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Next build (1108p3) will have seaplanes behave alike for patrol and strike phases.

The following outlines stages for patrol missions - CAP and search (naval or ASW). These were sort of there, but the order was different between base and ship, and between patrol and strikes.

Seaplane at a base will check in the following order - once a condition is satified, it is okay to complete its action.
(a) use any seaplane support in the base (ships or TFs). The total seaplane support at the base will go down for each plane assigned in each phase. The value gets reset at start of each phase. So seaplanes up to the seaplane support value get to fly free of supply;
(b) use supply from a tender;
(c) use supply from base. Non-seaplanes use base supply.
Training missions will always use base supply if any. If none, no training.

Planes on a ship will check in the following order - once a condition is satified, it is okay to complete its action.
(a) ship has an Air Ordnance slot and has enough. None is expended for a CAP or search. Just needs enough for the flying planes. Else CAP is limited and search is not allowed.
(b) is a seaplane and ship is a seaplane tender (AV/AVD,AVP,CS) with seaplane support. The total seaplane support in TF will go down for each plane assigned in each phase. The value gets reset at start of each phase. So seaplanes up to the seaplane support value get to fly free of supply;
(c) use supply from the tender, or any other tender in TF;
Training missions are not affected.


< Message edited by michaelm -- 7/7/2011 1:59:09 PM >


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Michael

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RE: Patrol Planes and AV - 7/7/2011 2:17:54 PM   
michaelm75au


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The following outlines stages for strike missions, for comparison.

Seaplane at a base will check in the following order - once a condition is satified, it is okay to complete its action.
(a) use supply from a tender;
(b) use supply from base. Non-seaplanes use base supply.
A limited number or no planes will fly if none of conditions are met (as currently designed).

Planes on a ship will check in the following order - once a condition is satified, it is okay to complete its action.
(a) ship has an Air Ordnance slot and allocates enough for the planes to fly. Works as currently designed;
(b) is a seaplane and ship is a seaplane tender (AV/AVD,AVP,CS) with seaplane support and no Air Ordnance slot. The total seaplane support in TF will go down for each plane assigned in each phase. The value gets reset at start of each phase. So seaplanes up to the seaplane support value get to fly free of supply;
(c) use supply from the tender, or any other tender in TF;
A limited number or no planes will fly if none of conditions are met (as currently designed).



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Michael

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RE: Patrol Planes do not use supply with AV in port - 7/9/2011 7:15:09 AM   
inqistor


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Does it works for every seaplane? Also for Float Fighters, and Dive Bombers? What with Air Ordnance of CS? Does it actually mean, than any ship can support attack mission?

quote:

ORIGINAL: michaelm
But there is a logic hole in patrol planes launched on a strike mission. They don't seem to be getting supply deducted when arming for a strike. I need to work thru some examples to see if this is so.

This seems to also work for bombers. Only those, which actually bombs are using supply, however pilots states more missions flown, than bombers made run (maybe some got lost and had to RtB?).

quote:

ORIGINAL: CV 2
Is it possible that the supplies are only being deducted if the planes actually see something? They are in a backwater and in the 6+ months they have been there, the Japs probably have only been in their spotting range maybe 8 total days.

Well, thinking of it:
During search mission plane should use only fuel, but when it actually attack detected ship, it should use all its payload, so full bombload supply.

quote:

Havent been able to post jpegs even either since the forum changed months ago.

Probably you have files with jpeg extension, while forum only accepts jpg. Just change it manually.

(in reply to CV 2)
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