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Lock HQ Support? - 5/27/2011 4:42:17 PM   
Gewehr43

 

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What effect does this option have? Didn't see an explanation in the manual.
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RE: Lock HQ Support? - 5/27/2011 5:01:04 PM   
Flaviusx


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It's to prevent supporting units from migrating from one HQ to another via the automated system for distributing SUs. The AI logic for this isn't very precise, and many players prefer to micromanage their SU assignments directly rather than leave it to the vagaries of the AI. Locked HQs will have whatever SUs you send to them or build in them, no more, no less.


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RE: Lock HQ Support? - 5/27/2011 6:03:13 PM   
neuromancer


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I became extremely frustrated with the AI SU assignments in my last game and locked them down.  It does take quite a bit of effort and admin points to reorganize your SUs to something that makes sense - I started reorging them and became very annoyed when the AI started throwing them around to entirely different armies and fronts than I assigned them too.

Irony being, I was trying to evenly distrubute my SUs, with the exception of all my heaviest artillery going after Leningrad, but the AI would mess it up as fast as I could assign it.

The actual OOBs of the day may have been that crazy - wouldn't surprise me at all - but they aren't particularly useful.


< Message edited by neuromancer -- 5/27/2011 6:06:26 PM >

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RE: Lock HQ Support? - 5/27/2011 6:10:52 PM   
Tarhunnas


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Just checking here, feel a but stupid for asking, but if Locked is on, will corps HQ still assign SUs to divisions in combat?

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RE: Lock HQ Support? - 5/27/2011 6:19:44 PM   
Q-Ball


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Tarhunnas

Just checking here, feel a but stupid for asking, but if Locked is on, will corps HQ still assign SUs to divisions in combat?


Yes, they will. LOCKED only affects Auto or Manual ASSIGN of SU's to HQs.

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RE: Lock HQ Support? - 5/27/2011 6:20:39 PM   
neuromancer


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Yes, it still provides those units for temporary support in combat (not all the time of course, its a percentage chance, but much better than a reserve division or brigade being assigned).

I leave most of my combat SUs at the corps level, except for my panzer corps where I assign specific SUs to divisions to make sure they always have them (one AA unit to each mobile unit, pioneers to tanks, jagdpanzers to motorized, and scatter about some support guns to help give strength).  I also assign pioneers and StuGs directly to infantry units assaulting heavily fortified positions.

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RE: Lock HQ Support? - 5/27/2011 9:58:45 PM   
Emx77


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If I'm going to manualy distribute SU's what is the best configuration for Axis? How many different SU's per Corps? Also, do you directly attach Flak battalions, companies and Machine gun Bn's to divisions or just pioneers? Anyway, what is the best SU for given job. I know that pioneers are needed for reducing forts but what about machine gun Bn's (I suppouse they are good for defese, right?). Any rough guidline for Axis player is welcome.

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RE: Lock HQ Support? - 5/27/2011 11:58:05 PM   
neuromancer


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I wouldn't call myself an expert by any stretch, so take this for what its worth.

First - note that I think it takes a turn for a reassign to become effective. Its no longer with the original unit, but its starred with its new unit which means that it can't be moved again, and I suspect isn't available yet.

Second - the most efficient method is to directly assign from one unit to another, but isn't always practical. Make sure you LOCK your HQs before you end the turn (can be done en masse from the Commander's Report). The next most efficient is to send it to OKH, and then rail the OKH around and assign directly to where you need it (if you are assigning FROM the OKH to other units - as in you are in the OKH list and clicking on a specific SU and then from there selecting a specific HQ to send it to - it doesn't cost any APs, where as any other method costs 1 AP per move).

Third - OKH can have an almost unlimited number of SUs, Army Group HQs a lot, same with army HQs. Corps HQs are limited to 8 (or so... depending upon how they get there). A German division is limited to only 3, which is more than you'll need most of the time.

A Brigade/ Regiment or short division is limited to 1... maybe. I find that directly assigning to Regiments is rarely possible, and many Minor Axis units can't seem to take direct assignment even if a full division.


I try to make sure that as many corps as possible have three Artillery battalions, a mixture of 105s, 150s, and 210s in most corps. There aren't quite enough units to go around, but you should get the vast majority with three battalions, and a small number with only two. Most of the artillery (by a small margin) is 150s, which is all right. The really heavy guns (240s, and 350s) I try to concentrate where they are needed, usually replacing one of the other battalions.

The Nebelwerfer rockets aren't very numerous. I generally assign the heavy Nebelwerfers in single SUs to supplement the artillery of some corps that I think need some heavy punch. The regular sized Nebelwerfers I assigned in twos or threes to either bolster some artillery for a heavier punch, or where the unit is short on regular artillery and need some more.

There is also enough AA units to go around so that every front line corps has one (the mixed battalions with the 88s are the best for corps because there is a chance the 88s will be assigned to a combat, which is awesome as they were fantastic AT guns all through the war). Army HQs I usually give the battalions without the 88s as they should only be occasionally needing to do AA duty. The truly behind the lines units (security HQs, Army Groups, and OKH) I don't bother giving AA defence.
Panzer and motorized units I assign the SP flak companies (most AA cannot be assigned at the division level, there are barely enough units that can be assigned at that level to go with the mobile forces). The mobile units have some intrinsic AA, but I feel a little more is a good idea. You can even assign a few motorized AA battalions at that level which will have 88s, which is totally awesome!

There are enough pioneers to assign one to every corps, with a few spares to assign where necessary. As stated previously, I assign each panzer division a pioneer group so they always have them available when attacking fortified positions or across rivers.

You don't have a lot of StuGs (assault guns), panzerjagers (towed AT guns, often the less than thrilling 3.7 cm PaK 36, AKA Heeresanklopfgerät), and a very small number of jagdpanzers (SP tank destroyers). I spread the StuGs out as much as possible with a few specifically assigned when attacking fortified positions. Panzerjagers I also spread around, although if expecting a lot of armour it could be of benefit to assign some to those corps. Finally the Jagdpanzers I assign directly to motorized units for a bit more heavy punch.

The rest - bicycle recon, MG units, etc. - I spread around, or leave where they start. There are some SP Infantry Guns that start with panzer divisions, I typically leave them in place.

The Rumanians start with a lot of MG SUs so you may as well make sure they are spread out, should also make sure their AA and AT guns are spread out a little as well (they have far less of these SUs, but the Rumanian units need all the help they can get, so give them help where you can).

Mostly with the regular infantry I leave any StuGs, pioneers, panzerjagers, et al. at the corps so they can be assigned to any division as needed. Its not guaranteed, but seems to work pretty well. But when I'm in a siege (like Leningrad or Sevastopol) or have run into a particularly stubborn fortified line, I will assign StuGs and pioneers directly to the infantry I am going to use to assault the line - usually on the turn before they are to begin the assault.


< Message edited by neuromancer -- 5/28/2011 12:02:36 AM >

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RE: Lock HQ Support? - 5/28/2011 12:11:11 AM   
pompack


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quote:

ORIGINAL: neuromancer


... Make sure you LOCK your HQs before you end the turn (can be done en masse from the Commander's Report). ...



neuromancer:

How do you do en masse lock from the CR? I am still doing it one HQ at a time.

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RE: Lock HQ Support? - 5/28/2011 12:13:43 AM   
cookie monster


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quote:

ORIGINAL: pompack


quote:

ORIGINAL: neuromancer


... Make sure you LOCK your HQs before you end the turn (can be done en masse from the Commander's Report). ...



neuromancer:

How do you do en masse lock from the CR? I am still doing it one HQ at a time.


I'm guessing now, in the HQ tab I think you click on support level (at the top) and then enter -1 in the checkbox.

Edit: Just checked ingame I am correct.

< Message edited by cookie monster -- 5/28/2011 12:15:30 AM >

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RE: Lock HQ Support? - 5/28/2011 12:57:23 AM   
neuromancer


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Thanks Cookie, I don't have the game here and was trying to rememeber what I did.

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RE: Lock HQ Support? - 5/28/2011 1:33:05 AM   
pompack


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Thank you both.

I never knew that. It will save a lot of clicks

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RE: Lock HQ Support? - 5/28/2011 9:05:47 AM   
arras

 

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Do anyone know what happens with support units attached to Soviet corps when they get disbanded? (either manually or automatically)

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RE: Lock HQ Support? - 5/28/2011 9:17:28 AM   
invernomuto


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quote:

ORIGINAL: neuromancer

I wouldn't call myself an expert by any stretch, so take this for what its worth.


Thanks for sharing, very useful!



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RE: Lock HQ Support? - 5/28/2011 9:26:50 AM   
Omat


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Hello

If I remember correctly, you can find the SU in the next higher HQ where the disbanded HQ were attached.

Omat


quote:

ORIGINAL: arras

Do anyone know what happens with support units attached to Soviet corps when they get disbanded? (either manually or automatically)



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RE: Lock HQ Support? - 5/28/2011 10:03:30 AM   
arras

 

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Thanks Omat

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RE: Lock HQ Support? - 5/28/2011 8:24:52 PM   
fiva55


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quote:

ORIGINAL: neuromancer
First - note that I think it takes a turn for a reassign to become effective. Its no longer with the original unit, but its starred with its new unit which means that it can't be moved again, and I suspect isn't available yet.


Not sure if it is WAD, but it seems to me that SU become effective the moment you assign them, regardless of the distance between their original location and their new assignment. At least they show up in the battlereport.

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RE: Lock HQ Support? - 5/30/2011 5:16:33 PM   
CMoore


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Emir Agic

If I'm going to manualy distribute SU's what is the best configuration for Axis? How many different SU's per Corps? Also, do you directly attach Flak battalions, companies and Machine gun Bn's to divisions or just pioneers? Anyway, what is the best SU for given job. I know that pioneers are needed for reducing forts but what about machine gun Bn's (I suppouse they are good for defese, right?). Any rough guidline for Axis player is welcome.


I make no claims to any of this being correct, it's just the way I do it.

The Germans start with the following;

Armor:

3 FlammPzr ( use them while you can )

Inf:

1 Bicycle ( I always imagine they were made fun of quite a bit, all by themselves tooling around russia on their Schwinns )

Art:

2 Karl
1 Theodore
3 H39 240m Hwz
31 M18 210m Hwz
7 K39 150m G
27 K18 105m G
38 sFH 150 H
13 Mix Art Bn 105/150

AT:

5 PzJgr

AA:

12 Mot Flk
14 LW Mot Flk
38 LW Mix
4 LW Lt
8 SP Lt
27 SP Coy

SpG:

12 Stug
9 JgdPz
4 SPG Coy

Eng:

52 Pnr

Const:

2 RAD Lbr Grp
12 RAD Lbr Det
120 Cn Bn

Mort:

3 Hvy Hwz

Rckt:

11 Hvy Nbw
17 Nbw

MG:

3 MG Bn

The bicycle an MGs I disband. I then, slowly and painfully given the SU attachment system, distribute as follows;

Each Army Group:

1 RAD Lbr Grp ( except AGN )
16 Const Bn

Army:

1 RAD Lbr Det
6 Const Bn
1 LW Mot Flk

Luftflotte:

1 LW Lt

FlKorps:

1 LW Mix

PzrKorps:

1 Mix Art
1 Mot Flk
1 Pnr
1 Hvy Nbw
1 Nbw

InfKorps:

1 M18
1 K39/or K18
1 sFH
1 LW Mix
1 Pnr

Then each Pzr Div 1 SP Gun Coy, 1 SP AA Bn or Coy
Mot Div get 1 Stug, 1 JgdPzr, 1 SP AA Coy
SS Div 1 PzrJgr, 1 Stug

The heavy artillery, and remaining SU's I keep at OKH and move around to hotspots where they're needed. I usually end up forming a corps around the Sturm Division with all the heavy artillery, directly attached Pnr and Stugs, and use that to bust cities

There are also some artillery withdrawals early so I have to shift things around to make sure it's the corps in low priority sectors who do without.

It may not be the greatest, but it can't possibly be worse than the auto attachment system.

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RE: Lock HQ Support? - 5/31/2011 9:30:02 PM   
neuromancer


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quote:

ORIGINAL: fiva55
quote:

ORIGINAL: neuromancer
First - note that I think it takes a turn for a reassign to become effective. Its no longer with the original unit, but its starred with its new unit which means that it can't be moved again, and I suspect isn't available yet.


Not sure if it is WAD, but it seems to me that SU become effective the moment you assign them, regardless of the distance between their original location and their new assignment. At least they show up in the battlereport.


Okay then, I sit corrected. Thanks for the information!
I guess the star just indicates it can't be reassigned again.

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RE: Lock HQ Support? - 5/31/2011 9:33:54 PM   
neuromancer


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quote:

ORIGINAL: CMoore
The Germans start with the following;


Thanks for the list!

quote:


I then, slowly and painfully given the SU attachment system, distribute as follows;


Oog... slowly and painfully is right!


quote:


It may not be the greatest, but it can't possibly be worse than the auto attachment system.


No kidding. I was 'thrilled' to discover all the heavy hardware assigned to my security groups.

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RE: Lock HQ Support? - 5/30/2021 6:29:06 AM   
nukkxx5058


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What does "Lock Support Units" in the game options means for the AI opponent ?

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RE: Lock HQ Support? - 5/30/2021 7:30:43 AM   
Chris21wen

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: fiva55


quote:

ORIGINAL: neuromancer
First - note that I think it takes a turn for a reassign to become effective. Its no longer with the original unit, but its starred with its new unit which means that it can't be moved again, and I suspect isn't available yet.


Not sure if it is WAD, but it seems to me that SU become effective the moment you assign them, regardless of the distance between their original location and their new assignment. At least they show up in the battlereport.


Yes they are effctive on the turn they are transferred. See Section 7.4, 7.5.2. 7.7.3 of the unofficial manual for more info on support units.

Yes it's time consuming and it's much easier to do as the Soviets especially on a big campaign,

On the first turn leave them unlocked on the first turn but set support level to zero for all HQs. Support levels have no effect on STAVKA. The HQs will then transfer all their support units back up the command chain, corps to army to Front to STAVKA and will take 4 turns to get from Corps to STAVKA.

On every turn use the commanders report and lock any HQ that has zero support units. Once locked (and empty) you can start transferring units back to each Army. You can ignore Corps as they disband. One caveat (and pain in the backside) is, const eng don't count nor are they part of the support levels system but will lock.

OK thats the long way and the simplest as but you can quicken the process but it takes more work. You should have some idea what you want in each Army so if it only has SU you want in it there's no need to move them out and back in, just lock the Army HQ. Big caveat here. When you lock any HQ, it and any lowwer HQ in the chain of command are also locked. This means Corps HQ must be empty before locking the Army.

Just in case you missed it in the manual. An HQ will only provide SU to combat if the HQ has an attached ground unit in the combat. It does not matter what the level of HQ is. I.e. If a ground unit atteched to STAVKA takes part in combat STAVKA can provide support units to that combat. There are various rules governing who, what and when but the main rule is the HQ MUST be within 5 hexes of the combat to provide SU.

quote:

ORIGINAL: nukkxx5058

What does "Lock Support Units" in the game options means for the AI opponent ?


None

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RE: Lock HQ Support? - 6/5/2021 8:06:34 AM   
MultiPurposeCanine

 

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locked only influences assign

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