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Should I play or should I wait for another patch?

 
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Should I play or should I wait for another patch? - 5/16/2011 10:20:07 AM   
Emx77


Posts: 419
Joined: 3/29/2004
From: Sarajevo, Bosnia and Herzegovina
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As blizzard issue is patched and Germans have chance to survive first winter, I'm considering to start another GC '41 as Axis. Unfortunately, now are emerging new issues in mid-game for Germans. I would like to ask people should I wait another patch or to start GC '41 right now?

< Message edited by Emir Agic -- 5/16/2011 10:33:20 AM >
Post #: 1
RE: Should I play or should I wait for another patch? - 5/16/2011 1:50:53 PM   
Klydon


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Joined: 11/28/2010
Status: offline
I would play. I would assume it is going to be awhile before that may be "fixed", but then it will take awhile to get there. If nothing else, you can stop the game after the blizzard and hold it for the patch.

(in reply to Emx77)
Post #: 2
RE: Should I play or should I wait for another patch? - 5/16/2011 5:53:26 PM   
cookie monster


Posts: 1693
Joined: 5/22/2005
From: Birmingham,England
Status: offline
To be honest there are so many beta's being produced you might as well...

Start a new PBEM

In a way new game players are the guinea pigs and only by having people willing to provide feedback will any bugs get worked out

WitE is a complex beast afterall.

(in reply to Klydon)
Post #: 3
RE: Should I play or should I wait for another patch? - 5/16/2011 6:09:10 PM   
kirkgregerson

 

Posts: 497
Joined: 4/9/2008
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I would wait. From what I've seen there's still some play balance issue in the CG41 campaign.

from 42 (mostly)
- excessive loses which a single Sov unit in (fort 2+) can inflict to axis attackers. The combat mechanics is somewhat flawed because it uses a ratio loses algorithm from what I've seen. So if you attack with more units, you will receive more loses in total. I've seen battles where I attacked with 40k Germans vs 8k Soviets in clear terrain, 2x arty, more air, defender in fort 2 and I've lost 1000k men to about the same 1000k (maybe more) Soviets. Which to me is excessive and leads to the Soviets having 5-6 single unit deep lines after the 42 spring thaw. The axis player will just grind himself down and play into the hands of the Soviet players attrition war. Mean while the Soviet player is gaining 100k + manpower a turn producing 5k arty. From Dec 41 to Apr42, I saw my Soviet opponent gain 50k in arty! This is after taking many of his armaments from Leningrad-Moscow-Rostov.

So would I start another 41 campaign as axis in the current v1.03 version... no.

Not to say it's still not fun to try and hold off the Soviet steam roller and WitE is a great game... just would be more fun to have better combat mechanics and some limits to Soviet forts in 42.

(in reply to cookie monster)
Post #: 4
RE: Should I play or should I wait for another patch? - 5/16/2011 6:49:52 PM   
Joel Billings


Posts: 32054
Joined: 9/20/2000
From: Santa Rosa, CA
Status: online
My advice to anyone starting a new campaign is to start one in 1.04 with the latest patch, and keep patching. 1.04 has been a major improvement on 1.03. The bugs we are finding and fixing these days have been in the game from day 1 and are not 1.04 specific, and they haven't kept people from enjoying the game so far. There will be a new patch we hope to release this week which has these changes:

6) Rule Change (section 20.6) - HQ supply buildups are not allowed for HQ's that are more than 20 MPs from their railhead at the moment the HQ buildup is ordered. In addition, the AP cost of an HQ buildup is now increased by the distance in MPs of the HQ from a railhead divided by 3 (truncated). So for an HQ with 3 attached divisions that is 16 MPs from a supply source, the AP cost would be 5+2+2+2+(16/3) =16 (used to be just 11). This increased AP cost is used to calculate the other buildup penalties described in section 20.6.3 in the manual.
7) Rule Change - Refitting units next to enemy hexes have a 25% chance of getting more replacements than if they weren't on refit, but the exact amount of the additional replacements will vary greatly depending on the distance from the railhead.


But you aren't likely to get to a point where these will matter until after the new version is available.

_____________________________

All understanding comes after the fact.
-- Soren Kierkegaard

(in reply to kirkgregerson)
Post #: 5
RE: Should I play or should I wait for another patch? - 5/16/2011 6:53:49 PM   
JR5555

 

Posts: 95
Joined: 12/19/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: kirkgregerson

I would wait. From what I've seen there's still some play balance issue in the CG41 campaign.

from 42 (mostly)
- excessive loses which a single Sov unit in (fort 2+) can inflict to axis attackers. The combat mechanics is somewhat flawed because it uses a ratio loses algorithm from what I've seen. So if you attack with more units, you will receive more loses in total. I've seen battles where I attacked with 40k Germans vs 8k Soviets in clear terrain, 2x arty, more air, defender in fort 2 and I've lost 1000k men to about the same 1000k (maybe more) Soviets.


Let me ask you, did the forces you used to attack those forts have pioneers? I used to have these type of losses but then I added pioneers, after that my losses were cut to about less than half of what they used to be.


< Message edited by hattrick1 -- 5/16/2011 6:54:28 PM >

(in reply to kirkgregerson)
Post #: 6
RE: Should I play or should I wait for another patch? - 5/16/2011 8:44:43 PM   
kirkgregerson

 

Posts: 497
Joined: 4/9/2008
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Joel Billings

My advice to anyone starting a new campaign is to start one in 1.04 with the latest patch, and keep patching. 1.04 has been a major improvement on 1.03. The bugs we are finding and fixing these days have been in the game from day 1 and are not 1.04 specific, and they haven't kept people from enjoying the game so far. There will be a new patch we hope to release this week which has these changes:

6) Rule Change (section 20.6) - HQ supply buildups are not allowed for HQ's that are more than 20 MPs from their railhead at the moment the HQ buildup is ordered. In addition, the AP cost of an HQ buildup is now increased by the distance in MPs of the HQ from a railhead divided by 3 (truncated). So for an HQ with 3 attached divisions that is 16 MPs from a supply source, the AP cost would be 5+2+2+2+(16/3) =16 (used to be just 11). This increased AP cost is used to calculate the other buildup penalties described in section 20.6.3 in the manual.
7) Rule Change - Refitting units next to enemy hexes have a 25% chance of getting more replacements than if they weren't on refit, but the exact amount of the additional replacements will vary greatly depending on the distance from the railhead.


But you aren't likely to get to a point where these will matter until after the new version is available.



Good point. I think unless some major changes are in the works for campaign data (not likely?), you won't get to the issues points in a CG41 game. IMO is 42, until they've probably already been patched.

(in reply to Joel Billings)
Post #: 7
RE: Should I play or should I wait for another patch? - 5/16/2011 8:47:04 PM   
kirkgregerson

 

Posts: 497
Joined: 4/9/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: hattrick1

quote:

ORIGINAL: kirkgregerson

I would wait. From what I've seen there's still some play balance issue in the CG41 campaign.

from 42 (mostly)
- excessive loses which a single Sov unit in (fort 2+) can inflict to axis attackers. The combat mechanics is somewhat flawed because it uses a ratio loses algorithm from what I've seen. So if you attack with more units, you will receive more loses in total. I've seen battles where I attacked with 40k Germans vs 8k Soviets in clear terrain, 2x arty, more air, defender in fort 2 and I've lost 1000k men to about the same 1000k (maybe more) Soviets.


Let me ask you, did the forces you used to attack those forts have pioneers? I used to have these type of losses but then I added pioneers, after that my losses were cut to about less than half of what they used to be.



Thanks, I believe you might be on to something and I might be on something.
I'll pay better attention to view the battle results with and w/o pioneers being committed. Once again, thanks for reminding me of this fact. Does the reduction stack with multiple pioneers? Think it does help to have more than one, but not sure to what effect.

(in reply to JR5555)
Post #: 8
RE: Should I play or should I wait for another patch? - 5/16/2011 8:49:25 PM   
Mynok


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Joined: 11/30/2002
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Emir Agic

As blizzard issue is patched and Germans have chance to survive first winter, I'm considering to start another GC '41 as Axis. Unfortunately, now are emerging new issues in mid-game for Germans. I would like to ask people should I wait another patch or to start GC '41 right now?


The more people are playing it and finding issues, the faster the game will develop. It's fun to play as it is right now.

_____________________________

"Measure civilization by the ability of citizens to mock government with impunity" -- Unknown

(in reply to Emx77)
Post #: 9
RE: Should I play or should I wait for another patch? - 5/16/2011 9:43:51 PM   
76mm


Posts: 4682
Joined: 5/2/2004
From: Washington, DC
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Joel, are you guys looking at air-to-air combat? It does not seem right at all!

(in reply to Mynok)
Post #: 10
RE: Should I play or should I wait for another patch? - 5/16/2011 9:47:55 PM   
Helpless


Posts: 15793
Joined: 8/27/2004
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quote:

Joel, are you guys looking at air-to-air combat? It does not seem right at all!


Yes, but I wouldn't be that strict. Major disadvantage of the current engine is that most of aspects are not visible.

_____________________________

Pavel Zagzin
WITE/WITW/WITE-2 Development

(in reply to 76mm)
Post #: 11
RE: Should I play or should I wait for another patch? - 6/2/2011 3:07:55 AM   
sfbaytf

 

Posts: 1122
Joined: 4/13/2005
Status: offline
I'm still on the sidelines. I bought this when it first came out, played a little and haven't touched it since. Its pretty overwhelming to me. I've played 2 WitP/AE campaign games till 45, but this is a completely different beast.

I just installed the latest patch and began playing again.

(in reply to Helpless)
Post #: 12
RE: Should I play or should I wait for another patch? - 6/2/2011 12:51:01 PM   
Aussiematto

 

Posts: 344
Joined: 2/13/2011
From: Australia
Status: offline
Hearing discussion of 'issues' with the game always reminds me that, most of the time, it's ME who is screwing up. One early game, using a corps of 9th Army, I always seemed to get held results. Checked the leader. He was a dumb ass. Lesson learned. EVERYTHING has to be checked and managed if you want to be a superman :). I am not disputing that the game could be better but so could everything. I just play and have done with it. I've got one game where I am screwed by the partisan bug (I think?), but who cares?  My opponent is enjoying himself and I'm learning.

_____________________________

I still remember cardboard!

(in reply to sfbaytf)
Post #: 13
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