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New refit - no refit - 5/10/2011 3:14:37 PM   
morvael


Posts: 11745
Joined: 9/8/2006
From: Poland
Status: offline
I play a campaign against AI using latest beta patches, it's late 42 now. My infantry was OK in 41, but of course after blizzard most of them were damaged (6-9k strong), and the rule of getting replacements up to 80% strength while not refitting kicked in in 1942. I used refit aggressively for panzers (so they could do their job) with some spare infantry divisions (1 for each army of 16/20 divisions) plugging in the holes while the most damaged front line divisions refitted. Most of my infantry divisions were still in bad shape (7-8k).

Then I started to read turn logs.

And I resigned from using refit on more than 3 units (single panzer corps) per turn.

The units I usually used to put on refit (4-5 panzer corps, 6-7 infantry divisions that filled up to 16k men) were chewing so much manpower than no more was left for normal units. Of course in a turn or two the panzers where ready to chew some more Soviets so I started offensive, they got mauled after a while, I pulled them back for refit, rinse and repeat. Meanwhile I was angry that the backbone of my army holding the front grew weaker with each day.

Now, without using refit so aggressively (as I see many of you do, perhaps a good tactics from earlier versions of the game) I see my infantry again at good levels of health (10-11k), I just have to unleash my panzers less often (they rebuild longer), which of course results in lower casualties for the Soviets, but I'm less worried about holding the line now (which starts to get important in later stages of the war).

Just check the logs:

Before:
REFIT REPLACEMENT SUB-SEGMENT
763 men were returned to Germany's manpower pool
36282 men are added to Germany's front line units
NORMAL REPLACEMENT SUB-SEGMENT
14099 men were returned to Germany's manpower pool
2177 men are added to Germany's front line units
12k vanished (mostly from regular infantry divisions holding the front)
REFIT REPLACEMENT SUB-SEGMENT
2835 men were returned to Germany's manpower pool
35843 men are added to Germany's front line units
NORMAL REPLACEMENT SUB-SEGMENT
14659 men were returned to Germany's manpower pool
3285 men are added to Germany's front line units
11k vanished

After:
REFIT REPLACEMENT SUB-SEGMENT
756 men were returned to Germany's manpower pool
2047 men are added to Germany's front line units
NORMAL REPLACEMENT SUB-SEGMENT
14791 men were returned to Germany's manpower pool
29189 men are added to Germany's front line units
14k gained (mostly by regular infantry divisions holding the front)
REFIT REPLACEMENT SUB-SEGMENT
945 men were returned to Germany's manpower pool
1821 men are added to Germany's front line units
NORMAL REPLACEMENT SUB-SEGMENT
12437 men were returned to Germany's manpower pool
28042 men are added to Germany's front line units
15k gained

So I just sit back, relaxed (less micromanagement without the need to constantly rotate divisions from the front to back), made a new corps of the reserve divisions and let the system do it's job.

Basically - lot of panzer action and refit => your infantry dies.

What do you think?

edit: with old refit rules having entire army on refit was like now having entire army without refit - most damaged units got their share of reinforcements. Now when the player is the one to choose who gets what (by selecting units to put behind the front and refit), it's the player who kills his own divisions by using refit too agressively.

edit2: "before" I got positive balance only in one replacement sub-segment meaning only part of my army grows, the rest shrinks. Now, "after", I have positive balance in both sub-segments meaning my entire army grows (albeit slower).

< Message edited by morvael -- 5/10/2011 3:19:35 PM >
Post #: 1
RE: New refit - no refit - 5/10/2011 6:47:37 PM   
PyleDriver


Posts: 6152
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Occupied Mexico aka Rio Grand Valley, S.Texas
Status: offline
Hum, I'll look at this. I have all my ID's over 10k using refit and my PzD's, except 3 have over 100 tanks some really big, one has 183...But I played it cool in the fall and the spring (June) looks very bright...Ok guys a bone. Andy a really smart guy told me this. The winter tips, and they work. Dont break down units. Keep them full strenght. Checker board what you have. Start digging in the first weeks of October, and (Bob) bring you construction battalions from the rear to front line corps. You will have level 2 forts everywhere and alot of level 3. Try it, you will be smiling come June...For heavens sake avoid moving anything, you need those trucks...

_____________________________

Jon Pyle
AWD Beta tester
WBTS Alpha tester
WitE Alpha tester
WitW Alpha tester
WitE2 Alpha tester

(in reply to morvael)
Post #: 2
RE: New refit - no refit - 5/11/2011 2:39:50 PM   
morvael


Posts: 11745
Joined: 9/8/2006
From: Poland
Status: offline
Well, I'm talking about situation in late 1942 where the German lack of manpower is more evident than in late 1941. Your ideas for winter are correct. I was just saying that Germans have not enough manpower to constantly engage their panzers, as this results (when using refit) in very weak infantry divisions. And when you reduce usage of refit mode, they gain some strength, without micromanagement needed when using refit.

(in reply to PyleDriver)
Post #: 3
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