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Demo acting weird - 5/7/2011 3:38:46 AM   
Jugger

 

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I played the original Panzer command Winter storm demo and you are hardly touched by enemy fire? I Played the same demo set to easy on Panzer command Ostfront and get obliterated after two turns losing two tanks and a half track on several occasions to mortar and anti tank fire. Not sure if difficulty levels have been screwed up.
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RE: Demo acting weird - 5/7/2011 3:42:39 AM   
Erik Rutins

 

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There are many years and many improvements between Winterstorm and Ostfront. Among other things, infantry and anti-tank guns are quite a bit harder to spot than they were in the original Winterstorm. With that said, even after losing two Panzers and two Half-tracks, you still have plenty of forces to win the scenario. Given the Soviet defenses, it's certainly possible to take some losses to the anti-tank guns, anti-tank rifles and mortars. To comment more you'd have to give us more information about how things went.

< Message edited by Erik Rutins -- 5/7/2011 3:44:57 AM >


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RE: Demo acting weird - 5/7/2011 3:44:36 AM   
junk2drive


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Difficulty level only changes the amount of points to spend on units. The enemy resolve remains the same. Get the heck out of the start zone as the enemy has plotted his mortars in that location.

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RE: Demo acting weird - 5/7/2011 3:47:01 AM   
Gerry4321

 

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Hello:

Thanks for the demo and scenario.

One thing I noticed is that Soviet infantry in open ground seem too invincible. I could understand if in FH as in Mobius's VAAR, but a PzIII should be able to dispatch an ATR unit pretty quick in open ground? I guess if they are lying down, it would be harder.

Again thanks,

Gerry

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RE: Demo acting weird - 5/7/2011 3:49:41 AM   
rickier65

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Gerry

Hello:

Thanks for the demo and scenario.

One thing I noticed is that Soviet infantry in open ground seem too invincible. I could understand if in FH as in Mobius's VAAR, but a PzIII should be able to dispatch an ATR unit pretty quick in open ground? I guess if they are lying down, it would be harder.

Again thanks,

Gerry



I may be wrong, but I think the ATR is in some woods cover, if you concentrate fire on it, you can pin it and then eliminate it. But it can inflict some damage if you let the Pz IIIs get too close.

Thanks
rick

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RE: Demo acting weird - 5/7/2011 3:53:56 AM   
junk2drive


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I've seen similar with tanks firing HE at Soviet troops but German infantry will cut them down quickly in the open.

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RE: Demo acting weird - 5/7/2011 3:57:50 AM   
Mobius


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Probably should try a combination of area fire with machineguns and point direct fire.

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RE: Demo acting weird - 5/7/2011 4:10:08 AM   
Mad Russian


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Something to consider with the earlier war tanks. A grenade is 40mm. When at tank with a 50mm gun fires an HE shell that's just a bit better than a single hand grenade.

Good Hunting.

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RE: Demo acting weird - 5/7/2011 5:28:41 AM   
Jugger

 

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All is good just not use to the sudden ferocity of the new system. After a restart I managed to gain a marginal 85% victory. 1 tank immobilized(engine) and one squad of panzer grenadiers taking casualties. My panzer grenadiers got shaken up and unloaded from there half tracks on the road. They were getting suppressed so I poped smoke which seem to help them. As I could no longer bound due to my panzer leader being immobilized, I Targeted moved two panzers( 1 against each building) and targeted hold the other two ( 1 against each building) and bounded my empty half tracks 50 metres behind. I know you have to be stationary to help in spotting units, but after firing quite a large number of HE into each building I dont think I recorded one kill in either building and simply won because I got greater than 50% of my units into the victory objective. Any ideas on how to overcome this?

Cheers

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RE: Demo acting weird - 5/7/2011 12:18:27 PM   
Rik81

 

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I note that the DEMO loads with a 23 page "tutorial". Question: Is this just the same tutorial pdf that came with PC:K or does it reflect what may have changed in PC:O?

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RE: Demo acting weird - 5/7/2011 1:17:17 PM   
Erik Rutins

 

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The tutorial has been updated to reflect many of the Ostfront improvements.

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RE: Demo acting weird - 5/7/2011 1:25:59 PM   
Rik81

 

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Thank you. I better reprint it then. My first start up turn was kind of bad,

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RE: Demo acting weird - 5/7/2011 2:05:52 PM   
mbar


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Jugger72

I played the original Panzer command Winter storm demo and you are hardly touched by enemy fire? I Played the same demo set to easy on Panzer command Ostfront and get obliterated after two turns losing two tanks and a half track on several occasions to mortar and anti tank fire. Not sure if difficulty levels have been screwed up.


That artillery is deadly accurate. I didn't know the Russians had laser target designators way back in the 40s

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RE: Demo acting weird - 5/7/2011 2:14:00 PM   
junk2drive


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Russian artillery in PCO is not deadly accurate. Rick designed the tutorial so that the Russians have a view of the Germans in setup phase and can pre plot to that spot on turn 1. Get out of the kill zone as soon as possible.

< Message edited by junk2drive -- 5/7/2011 2:15:12 PM >


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RE: Demo acting weird - 5/7/2011 4:53:39 PM   
Rik81

 

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PICKY, PICKY. (You mean someone actual READS manuals?) Sorry to report that the UNIT DETAILS on pages 5-6 of the Tutorial Manual do not, repeat DO NOT, correspond to the "real world" tool tips in the game.

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RE: Demo acting weird - 5/7/2011 5:00:18 PM   
Mad Russian


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ROFL!!!

PICKY, PICKY....if that's the only thing you find that is a bubble off center then we're good!

There are, of course, 3 parts to any development of a game.

Development
Testing
Documentation

There can be issues in any of those levels and they are all looked at with a fine tooth comb. But the reality of it is that we, both the team and you the customer, will be finding small little niggles as we go. They are in there. We have gone over the entire game dozens of times to try to reduce that. Some will still make it in.

The best we can with those little PICKIES is to fix them when we find them and have you tell us what you find so we can fix that too.


Besides, I doubt that many of you will be as PICKY as the development team is. We get downright NIT PICKY at times. Hopefully that will show through in the product you're seeing now.

Good Hunting.

MR


< Message edited by Mad Russian -- 5/7/2011 5:02:47 PM >


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RE: Demo acting weird - 5/7/2011 5:09:18 PM   
junk2drive


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Can you give more details? I can't see what you mean.

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RE: Demo acting weird - 5/7/2011 5:39:05 PM   
Rik81

 

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Do this: Print out the tutorial and have it sitting by .. LOL. Really the easiest way to describe the problem is for you to look at pages 5, 6 when you have the game up to the Tutorial Set-Up screen. (T0). The little icons at the bottom of the left hand pane DO NOT correspond to what is printed in the manual (place your mouse over them to see what its "tool tip" reads.

If I have to go in and read them off, I would have to write it down, come back here and write it out for you. Easier you just do it, okay? If I remember correctly the very first one on the left for the tank said "Commander OK". The manual on page 6 says Crew damage.

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RE: Demo acting weird - 5/7/2011 5:44:05 PM   
junk2drive


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The manual is giving you a descriptor of what the icon is. The icon indicates crew damage. The tool tip indicates the status of the icon at that point in the game with that unit selected.

The third vehicle icon is for mobility damage. The tool tip will indicate OK, track damage, engine damage or immobile, bogged or breakdown.

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Conflict of Heroes "Most games are like checkers or chess and some have dice and cards involved too. This game plays like checkers but you think like chess and the dice and cards can change everything in real time."

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RE: Demo acting weird - 5/7/2011 5:51:23 PM   
Rik81

 

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Okay, may I suggest that the manual ought to spell that out a bit? Remember pages 5 and 6 are read BEFORE one has been asked to even move off the T0 view.

I've completed T1 of the DEMO (both phases), I forgot to check how the icons/tool tips might have changed. Willl go do that now. Should be interesting since I had TWO TANKS destroyed on the first turn! And yes, I was trying to follow the orders carefully and the screen shots, LOL.

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RE: Demo acting weird - 5/7/2011 5:55:55 PM   
junk2drive


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The manual does explain it. The tutorial manual is intended to be as brief as possible for people that are less inclined to read stuff. We had our discussions about how much was too much

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RE: Demo acting weird - 5/7/2011 6:01:21 PM   
Rik81

 

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Thaks for that, I'll cut you some slack then until I can get the full manual. (But really, don't you think it a bit weird when the nice picture near the top of page six does not look like the nice icons on my computer screen, AT that particular time?

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RE: Demo acting weird - 5/7/2011 6:09:17 PM   
junk2drive


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There would have to be pictures and text of every possible combination. That would turn the brief tutorial into the manual at some point. Anyway after you have played around with everything for a bit you will just be glad that we put in so much for you.

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RE: Demo acting weird - 5/7/2011 6:34:56 PM   
rickier65

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Rik81

Thaks for that, I'll cut you some slack then until I can get the full manual. (But really, don't you think it a bit weird when the nice picture near the top of page six does not look like the nice icons on my computer screen, AT that particular time?


Sorry for the places where the Tutorial doc doesn't match. that would be my fault. The Full manual should also be in the Manuals Folder for the Demo.

And the game isn't always aggreable to having events happen the same way each time it's played. We tried to describe what would have a good chance of happening, but from the comments, it seems like I might have underestimated just how accurate those ATGs are.

Thanks!
rick

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RE: Demo acting weird - 5/8/2011 7:11:18 PM   
Redmarkus5


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Mad Russian

Something to consider with the earlier war tanks. A grenade is 40mm. When at tank with a 50mm gun fires an HE shell that's just a bit better than a single hand grenade.

Good Hunting.

MR



The quantity of explosives in a given shell is not solely determined by its diameter is it? The length of the shell is an equally important factor in its total capacity, so an elongated HE round with a similar diameter to a hand grenade will generally be far more powerful, surely...

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RE: Demo acting weird - 5/8/2011 7:52:32 PM   
Mobius


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quote:

ORIGINAL: redmarkus4


quote:

ORIGINAL: Mad Russian

Something to consider with the earlier war tanks. A grenade is 40mm. When at tank with a 50mm gun fires an HE shell that's just a bit better than a single hand grenade.

Good Hunting.

MR



The quantity of explosives in a given shell is not solely determined by its diameter is it? The length of the shell is an equally important factor in its total capacity, so an elongated HE round with a similar diameter to a hand grenade will generally be far more powerful, surely...
In this case they are probably pretty close.







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