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DoWs and allied minors

 
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DoWs and allied minors - 4/9/2011 5:54:02 PM   
Murat


Posts: 803
Joined: 9/17/2003
From: South Carolina
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Here is the situation:

In minor diplomacy, Bavaria goes from Austrian influenced to Austrian ally. Morocco goes from Turkish influenced to Turkish ally. All the rest of Ottoman neutrals are already Turkish ally and Egypt/Algeria are Turkish Free States. Turkey has a unit in Bavaria. The Algerian corps is on loan to Britain and is sitting in Algeria after having been brought there by a British Fleet. Turkey DoWs on Austria. Austria calls Britain and Russia, both of whom answer.

These are the bugs imho:

[1] Britain is allowed to DoW on Turkey despite the Algerians being, for all purposes, a British corp (I know we went over it a long time ago but I still think Fleets should prevent DoW or they should have to run the guns when they are forced to leave). This one is messy on many levels including control of areas and repatriation.

[2] Bavaria does not become an Austrain Free State (should due to the Turkish DoW).

[3] The North African Minors do not become Turkish Free States (should due to the Russian DoW).
Post #: 1
RE: DoWs and allied minors - 4/10/2011 11:49:21 AM   
Dancing Bear

 

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Hi Murat

I don't think your condition 1 is a bug. Loaned units are returned (reclaimed) to their original owners at the end of the previous month, so when there was a DOW, the Algierian corps would have been Turkish.

For condition 2, this may or may not be a bug. It depends on the order in which diplomacy was resovled, as determined by a random die roll. If Turkey went before (rolled higher) Austria, then the above result is valid.

For condition 3, if Austria has called her allies to war, then Turkey should get the same opportunity. This one sounds like a bug.

(in reply to Murat)
Post #: 2
RE: DoWs and allied minors - 4/10/2011 4:18:37 PM   
bresh

 

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Joined: 8/8/2005
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1+2 As DB writes.

But 3 is a no, its basic EIA.

Hard to explain but i try.

There are 3 ways of entering a war.

1.DOW another MP.
2.Beeing DOW by another MP. "note this is the only case minor-allies are called".
3.Join a call from ally after a DOW on a MP, vs aggressor/defender. (Aggresor is only allowed to call allies if defender did)


Remember nations who join are only at war vs A/D, not vs their allies.

Regards
Bresh


(in reply to Dancing Bear)
Post #: 3
RE: DoWs and allied minors - 4/10/2011 8:41:53 PM   
Murat


Posts: 803
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From: South Carolina
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First of all call to allies only applies to major powers. Even if it did apply to minors, Austria called allies: Russia and Britain; Turkey should be able to call allies against Austria then by your reasoning, so the ally minors should all be Turkish free states against Austria. Recognized #1 as not being a bug already. #2 is clearly a bug.

For #3, our group is arguing that 6.1.3 means that allied minors will only become free states if their allied major power is the defender in a DoW. So the aggressor, of if there are 2 agressors, cannot get their minor allies as free states regardless of call to allies. The rule though seems to say that as long as a major power does a DoW (no exceptions for the type of DoW) the minor allies join the major. It is how we have always played it in the past until this game.

(in reply to bresh)
Post #: 4
RE: DoWs and allied minors - 4/11/2011 12:26:07 PM   
Dancing Bear

 

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Hi Murat
are you sure #2 is a bug. Can you check the game log to see if Austrian diplomacy went before or after the Turkish diplomacy.

(in reply to Murat)
Post #: 5
RE: DoWs and allied minors - 4/12/2011 1:48:33 AM   
Murat


Posts: 803
Joined: 9/17/2003
From: South Carolina
Status: offline
Well #2 is a bug because I do not see it as a Free State and 2 others do so we cannot all be right. Of greater concern is #3 which seems to have not worked at all. Allied minors should follow their major to war if war is declared on that major even from a call to allies.

(in reply to Dancing Bear)
Post #: 6
RE: DoWs and allied minors - 4/13/2011 11:47:46 PM   
bresh

 

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Joined: 8/8/2005
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Murat, Turkey does not call minors when it is doing the DOW on Austria.

Minors only support if a MP DOWS the "minor-allied" MP.
Called allies pays pps to joining the existing war. This does not create new DOWs.
Its the same reason, Turkey is a not able to call allied MPS vs those new enemies, that Turkey wont be able to call its minor allies.

Its just one war that grows and not new wars.

So 3 is NO bug.
Simple EIA-game mecanic.

Btw i was wrong in 1 thing on my first post, its not basic eia. its eih.

Regards
Bresh




< Message edited by bresh -- 4/14/2011 2:22:03 AM >

(in reply to Murat)
Post #: 7
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