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New name for recon, ideas ?

 
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New name for recon, ideas ? - 9/9/2002 11:18:22 PM   
LarkinVB

 

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As the recon skill is now in the move category of skills we do need a new name to distinguis from the piloting skill of recon titans. Any idea how it could be called other than recon ?

Basically the skill gives better move and protection in wooded areas.
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- 9/10/2002 1:23:12 AM   
PrinceCorrin

 

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How about scouting?
Or woodsmoving?
hiking?
trailblazing!
bushwacking!!
cover and concealment
going commando!!
lumberjacking
timbertoddling
a davy crockett impression.
squirrelling
small furry rodent in the big bush!!
ok, that was a bit dirty.

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- 9/10/2002 1:57:51 AM   
LarkinVB

 

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I would vote for small furry rodent in the big bush if it wasn't too long to be displayed properly.

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- 9/10/2002 2:35:27 AM   
rosary

 

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[QUOTE]Originally posted by LarkinVB
[B]I would vote for small furry rodent in the big bush if it wasn't too long to be displayed properly. [/B][/QUOTE]

That is an excellent name for this skill. But I see your point. Perhaps, Navigation might work or
here's a list:

Navigation
Control
Piloting
Small furry rodent in the big bush*




*this one sounds familiar where did I hear it?

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- 9/10/2002 4:27:53 AM   
LarkinVB

 

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Navigation isn't to the point.
Perhaps we should stick to recon and rename all
40t to scout ?

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- 9/10/2002 5:46:52 AM   
rosary

 

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By all means, change the name of the 40t tos to scout.

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:) - 9/10/2002 7:53:09 AM   
Megrez

 

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How about "sneak piloting"?

P.S.: the only problem is that you should insert it amongst the piloting skills :(

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Re: :) - 9/10/2002 8:57:03 AM   
rosary

 

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[QUOTE]Originally posted by Megrez
[B]How about "sneak piloting"?

P.S.: the only problem is that you should insert it amongst the piloting skills :( [/B][/QUOTE]

the {recon] that we are talking about is already a Piloting skill. It just seems odd that we have a recon/light skill and also a recon skill. Here is the difference for those that want to give their input on this.

recon/light skill actually applies to the piloting of the 40ton and the 70 ton class of Titan.

The recon skill applies to being able to pilot any titan through woods etc,. . .

Does that make sense. This is why its important for us to change the name and the main reason that the furry rodent category has been so amply supplied by PC.

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- 9/10/2002 10:00:02 AM   
Megrez

 

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[QUOTE]the {recon] that we are talking about is already a Piloting skill. It just seems odd that we have a recon/light skill and also a recon skill. Here is the difference for those that want to give their input on this.

recon/light skill actually applies to the piloting of the 40ton and the 70 ton class of Titan.

The recon skill applies to being able to pilot any titan through woods etc,. . . [/QUOTE]

I was talkin' about the second one :) (the one that permits to move through woods, etc...)
I think you could change the recon skill in "sneak piloting" skill, and in that case you could place it amongst the other piloting skills...

Anyway you could call it "sneak motion" or "sneak movements" and let it be where it is placed now :)

Meg

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P.S. - 9/10/2002 10:12:35 AM   
Megrez

 

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[B] I think that it should be very easy to change the name of the recon skill (I mean the one that permits to move through the woods, etc...) instead of changin' the name of the recon-piloting skill which is related to a titan-class. If you change this last one, you should change also the name of the related titan-class.... and to say the truth I don't see any other good name for a titan which is smaller than a light one is... [/B]

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recon name - 9/10/2002 2:12:59 PM   
ste_mark

 

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Why don't you call it stealth?
That's both about hiding and about moving silently!

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Re: recon name - 9/10/2002 4:21:17 PM   
Hardcore

 

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[QUOTE]Originally posted by ste_mark
[B]Why don't you call it stealth?
That's both about hiding and about moving silently! [/B][/QUOTE]
Looking at the definition of the 'Recon' skill in the manual I'd have to agree that 'Stealth' is probably best.

The main features of the current 'Recon' skill are:
[list=1]
  • Scanner links - seeing enemies without being seen, i.e. Stealth.
  • Moving in rough or wooded areas - moving without being seen i.e. Stealth.
  • Being harder to hit in a wooded hex - difficult to hit, i.e. Stealth!
    [/list=1]
    Sounds about right to me!

    -- Hardcore --

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    - 9/10/2002 7:44:24 PM   
    rosary

     

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    Stealth works for me.

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    Ok :) - 9/10/2002 8:21:02 PM   
    Megrez

     

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    Good idea :)

    Up for "stealth" :)

    Meg :)

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    - 9/10/2002 11:14:58 PM   
    Thorgrim

     

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    I can't imagine a 200t behemoth being stealthy at all :) yeah, every weight class uses the skill, let's not forget it. it's not about moving silently (this is not AD&D), and scanner links are not just about seeing without being seen. I think Recon fits it right, as it's a result of a good pre-battle recon that you get to find good spots to hide and see without being seen and all that. Good recon also makes you find the best way through those dense woods.
    Changing recons to scouts, works for me.

    BTW, scanner links are not affected by recon skill anymore, but by the scanner skill.

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    - 9/11/2002 2:31:12 AM   
    rosary

     

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    Changing recon class titans to Scouts works for me too.

    But I'd also be o.k. if the stealth skill had a geometric decline in effectivness dependant upon the weight class of the Titan.

    This might help some higher ranked jocks remain in the smaller weight classes.

    (in reply to LarkinVB)
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    - 9/11/2002 6:32:55 AM   
    PrinceCorrin

     

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    Well the whole point of reconnoitering is to scout out the enemy right?

    Recon and scout mean the same thing too. So it wouldn't really confuse anybody if you changed them.

    I actually like the idea of the recon class being changed to scout.

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    hem... - 9/11/2002 7:41:30 AM   
    Megrez

     

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    From the manual:
    [B]To damage a titan, you must first lock it with your battle computer. To lock it, you must have it
    in direct sight or scanner range. The game makes great use of visibility and computes the visibility
    for all titans to recreate fog of war. Hexes which can not be scanned are either black if never
    seen before, or shadowed if they were once within scan range. As the jock's memory of these hexes
    fades they become shadowed more and more.[/B]

    If the jock's memory fades so fastly that he's not able to remember how an hex looks like after a few game-seconds, how is it possible that he remembers about good spots to hide in and about hexes' appearance from a pre-battle recon?

    [QUOTE]I think Recon fits it right, as it's a result of a good pre-battle recon that you get to find good spots to hide and see without being seen and all that. Good recon also makes you find the best way through those dense woods.[/QUOTE]

    That's true in a real conflict, but it doesn't seem to fits with ToS' world. It's not a good explanation for the recon skill, and, to say the truth, I don't see any good one... This is the reason that drives me to think we should change that name.
    It's not important if we change it in "stealth" or in something else... the point is to change that name... it just looks unappropriate.


    "Scout" could be a good name for a titan class, but I still prefer "recon"... it sounds more "military".

    Meg :cool:

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    - 9/11/2002 9:49:52 PM   
    Thorgrim

     

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    Oh my, here we go again. Again, you read what suits you. In your quote of the manual, it says: "hexes which cannot be scanned...". So the jock memory part is bogus. Who gives a crap? It's a manual, not a novel. I was and still am doing my best to keep the html version of the manual updated (Eric is working on the Word final version), so if you're not satisfied with it (should I remind you that as Larkin already said, v1.4 is NO LONGER SUPPORTED) update it yourself for your own pleasure.
    About pre-battle recon, I don't know exactly how my own backyard looks like, but if my life might depend on it, I'm sure I'd remember every single frigging hole I spotted there.
    Tell me Megrez, do you actually play the game, or you just like quoting stuff? Just curious.

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    - 9/12/2002 12:37:30 AM   
    rosary

     

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    Fog of war is now a standard in most strategy games. Its one of those things that if we took it out we'd get complaints that it wasn't included. Personally, I think it works extremely well. Of course, I get to play it on the new 3-D map graphics. I will say that the new 3D look makes the game a much different animal. I'm still not used to it.

    To Prince Corrin, He's the King because a Watery Tart lobbed a scimitar at him.

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    - 9/12/2002 2:21:48 AM   
    Thorgrim

     

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    [QUOTE]Originally posted by rosary
    [B]But I'd also be o.k. if the stealth skill had a geometric decline in effectivness dependant upon the weight class of the Titan.
    [/B][/QUOTE]

    Sure. However, weight class is already a factor, in a small way, in the situations modified by the recon skill:
    In WS the recon skill reduces movement time when running through woods (woods only, any woods), grants additional protection from weapons fire and increases the hiding factor of titans in any type of cover.
    Now, shaving off a couple of seconds in 14 secs is a lot more significant than the same amount in 32 secs. Also, the target's height attack penalty is higher for recons than for assaults. Finally, the base HD factor is dependent on a titan's height.

    About the stealth designation, of those 3 situations only one (HD) relates to stealth - keep in mind that in ToS the defensive modifier has nothing to do with a titan being hidden, they're separate things. They all relate in some way to recon/scouting though - navigation, protection, hiding.
    This is why I think [scout/light & recon] or [recon/light & scouting] is the best approach.
    I favor the first for the simple fact that even though scouting and recon are the same thing, scouting is more associated with the "old", "on foot" type of reconnoitering, whereas recon can easily be transposed to satellite imaging, spy drones, intel from operatives on the field, whatever.
    I do admit it would be easier and less disrupting to go for the second option though.

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    - 9/12/2002 2:48:14 AM   
    PrinceCorrin

     

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    [QUOTE]Originally posted by rosary
    [B]To Prince Corrin, He's the King because a Watery Tart lobbed a scimitar at him. [/B][/QUOTE]

    How do you know he's not a peasant?
    Well he's not covered in ****, that's how.

    Bring out yer dead!! Bring out yer dead!!
    Hear now, he's not dead!
    Yes he is.
    No he's not! He's still moving!
    No he's not. Stone dead he is.

    On second thought, let's not go to Camelot. 'Tis a silly place.

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    - 9/12/2002 6:13:06 AM   
    Megrez

     

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    [QUOTE]Oh my, here we go again. Again, you read what suits you. In your quote of the manual, it says: "hexes which cannot be scanned...". So the jock memory part is bogus. Who gives a crap? It's a manual, not a novel. [/QUOTE]

    LOL :D

    [QUOTE]should I remind you that as Larkin already said, v1.4 is NO LONGER SUPPORTED[/QUOTE]

    And so? Have you got the new version's manual?


    Ok Mr. Prophet :)
    You know the holy truth :)
    I will be your submissive slave :)
    I will be silent :)

    LOL :D

    Megrez :)

    P.S. to Rosary:
    Never said that I don't want the Fog of War :) But you have to admit that, if someone does a pre-battle recon, "probably" he will also know the geographical features of the place where he will fight.
    Fog of War works if none of the opponents knows those features: if someone does a pre-battle recon Fog of War is meaningless. In the game there's the Fog of War: I like it :) So I think you should find a better explanation about the recon skill... you could also change that name.
    You wanna rename Recon titans to Scout titans? Ok :) I prefer recon... but it's ok...
    But pls... change recon skill in somethin' else... somethin which is credible...
    Iceman's explanation is not.

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    - 9/12/2002 4:58:07 PM   
    Thorgrim

     

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    As a matter of fact, I do. An old pdf version, the new MSWord version, and the html version I've been updating. Is this a satisfatory answer to your question?

    And stop doing that. The pre-battle recon is my doing, Rosary or VB have nothing to do with that. I made it up. Why are you using it? It's not credible, but you don't have a better one?! I am the Prophet, I say what is credible or not! So be silent. And I don't do the submission thing...
    You seem to forget an hex is 333m across too. And that there are a few levels of shading, each lasting for something like 100 game secs or so, and you can see the terrain type underneath though you cannot scan it. So a jock's memory is not that bad, considering he is in hostile environment, under fire, and with better things on his mind.
    And since we're at it, why don't jocks (and pilots in EVERY other strategy game with fog of war) just take a simple MAP with them on the cockpit? That'd solve all their problems regarding terrain... stupid game developers, huh? Doh!

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    - 9/13/2002 12:48:03 AM   
    mutt2050

     

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    Here are my ideas for changing recon.

    Stratigic move
    Covert move

    I do also like the stealth idea too.

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    - 9/13/2002 11:52:17 PM   
    CrushU

     

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    i thought recon let you see farther... hmm... oh well.

    hmm, names...

    scouting would work great, except that scouting doesnt always imply movement. Scouting usually relates to ability to see, and ability to avoid detection. It *can* imply movement, if explicitly stated.

    Recon relates to the methods behind obtaining reconnisance. Like ability to see, ability to remember, and ability to quickly get in and out before enemies can see you.

    Stealth relates to abilities with avoiding detection. Moving fast can be a way to avoid detection. (example: In AD&D (yes, tos is not ad&d) usually for a stealth/hide skill, you get negative modifiers on the check if you are large and bulky. So this recon skill should also lose effect with heavier titans.)

    Hunting might be good... It might imply that it increases damage... But if you think, hunters can usually move quickly through woods, can see in woods further than other people, and can aim through woods better than other people. Although the name seems... wrong... for some reason. Probably because Titans dont look like deer. ;)

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    - 9/15/2002 11:33:35 AM   
    Ald_Dark_Cobalt

     

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    Hmmm...
    What about...

    Ranger
    Ranger Training
    Ranging
    Rangership
    Concealment
    Scouting
    Dark Patrol
    Shading

    Delayed Blast Fireball
    Power Word Kill :D
    Cooking

    Or much easier, change the class 1 name to Ranger (or Scout).

    _____________________________


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    - 9/15/2002 10:13:42 PM   
    rosary

     

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    [QUOTE]Originally posted by Megrez
    [B]

    LOL :D



    And so? Have you got the new version's manual?


    Ok Mr. Prophet :)
    You know the holy truth :)
    I will be your submissive slave :)
    I will be silent :)

    LOL :D

    Megrez :)

    P.S. to Rosary:
    Never said that I don't want the Fog of War :) But you have to admit that, if someone does a pre-battle recon, "probably" he will also know the geographical features of the place where he will fight.
    Fog of War works if none of the opponents knows those features: if someone does a pre-battle recon Fog of War is meaningless. In the game there's the Fog of War: I like it :) So I think you should find a better explanation about the recon skill... you could also change that name.
    You wanna rename Recon titans to Scout titans? Ok :) I prefer recon... but it's ok...
    But pls... change recon skill in somethin' else... somethin which is credible...
    Iceman's explanation is not. [/B][/QUOTE]


    Yes, this information is given to the player who then tries to remember it. That means You.
    You'll remember the terrain and other things as well as you can. The game doesn't do it for you all of the time. It does try to remember the last known positions of enemies and allies.

    (in reply to LarkinVB)
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    - 9/15/2002 10:18:13 PM   
    rosary

     

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    I should mention that the new 3D terrain look seems to be making the game quite different. But in a very good way.

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    Post #: 29
    - 9/16/2002 12:01:54 AM   
    Megrez

     

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    [QUOTE]
    Yes, this information is given to the player who then tries to remember it. That means You.
    You'll remember the terrain and other things as well as you can. The game doesn't do it for you all of the time. It does try to remember the last known positions of enemies and allies.
    [/QUOTE]

    It's quite intuitive if you play with the game at least a couple of minutes.

    (in reply to LarkinVB)
    Post #: 30
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