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What Am I Doing Wrong? - 12/30/2010 1:09:38 PM   
tgb

 

Posts: 766
Joined: 7/8/2005
Status: offline 		I've played the tutorial and gone through the Operational Bootcamp. I keep the manual open while I play. Yet in the Road to Minsk scenario, even winning just about every battle, forming pockets, and bombing the crap out of the Soviet air force, I can barely make it to Minsk by the end of Turn 3, let alone the three Eastern victory locations.

I've read others' claims of taking Minsk on Turn 1, so clearly it's me, but I can't figure out where I'm going wrong.

This is on normal difficulty with FOW on.
Post #: 1
RE: What Am I Doing Wrong? - 12/30/2010 1:19:42 PM   
ComradeP

 

Posts: 7192
Joined: 9/17/2009
Status: offline 		It can be difficult. Taking Minsk on turn 1 isn't possible anymore now that engagement ranges have been dramatically lowered, minimizing the effectiveness of, especially, hasty attacks by mobile units in city and bad terrain hexes. I think a good Soviet player can easily keep the Germans from taking the eastern objectives. All that's need is a checkerboard between Minsk and the objectives to keep the Germans busy on turn 2 and then a stack in the objective hexes to make sure it isn't taken on turn 3.

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RE: What Am I Doing Wrong? - 12/30/2010 2:23:46 PM   
Mynok


Posts: 12108
Joined: 11/30/2002
Status: offline
The key strategic difference that got me a decisive against the AI was bypassing and isolating Minsk with the panzers on turn 2, sending them moving on towards the two eastern objectives. Leave taking Minsk to the followup infantry on turn 3.

Against a human, I would suspect it is critical to isolate and contain as many units as possible on turn 1 so they can't be used to create the checkerboard mud on turn 2.

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Post #: 3
RE: What Am I Doing Wrong? - 12/30/2010 2:38:02 PM   
modrow

 

Posts: 1097
Joined: 8/27/2006
Status: offline 		Well, I'm not an expert, but have been struggling for a while to take more than Minsk as well against the AI - so maybe what helped me will help you as well:

I sort of concentrated too much on forming pockets on day 1. This prevented advancing sufficiently far to the East. What allowed me to do better in the end was pushing deeply towards the East near the North and South edge of the map, just forming pockets when they offered themselves and partly converging on/taking Minsk on day 2, thus forming a big pocket.

Hope this helps

Hartwig

(in reply to tgb)
Post #: 4
RE: What Am I Doing Wrong? - 12/30/2010 2:39:56 PM   
Zovs


Posts: 5451
Joined: 2/23/2009
From: United States
Status: online 		Bear in my in the Boot Camp, I did a lot of 'examples' on how to deliberate or hasty attack. On turn 1 for the Axis, unless the terrain is 'nasty' you should only use hasty attacks whenever possible to get the infantry to move as far forward as possible.

What I recommend would be:

a) Air Recon (might have to run it twice if you use AI)
b) Bomb Airfield (if your wanted to learn ground mostly, make sure you set Air Doctrine to Ground Support on - 12/29/2010 hot fix for testers, not released to public yet and you can use AI but you'll have to supplement your attacks, trying for 1500 kills)
c) I would go with all infantry hasty attacks (unless terrain is bad) first and get those infantry as far forward as possible.
d) Now move your 3rd and 2nd Panzer Groups to encircle and cut off or to penetrate as deep as possible to through the Soviet AI (or human) off balance as much as possible.

I should be finished with a smallish strategy guide thing using the RTM as the test bed for ideas/suggestions and it may help but it essentially is everything above in some more detail.

One last idea I just thought of and you should not feel weird or bad about trying it, but you could run several 'test games' with RTM since it's only 3 turns, start with Easy until you beat the AI, then do Normal until you can decisively beat the AI then try Challenging.

I mostly play challenging but in the high points of testing the AI in 1943-45 I was on Hard and I did try one game on Impossible as the Axis and the Soviet AI was insane and I swear Gary took my weekly turn reviews I did as the Soviet vs German AI in 43 and multiplied by the factor of 10 and used it against me, it was really insane and by turn four there were such big gaps in my German lines I had no way of plugging them any time soon...lol so I conceded to GAIA with no shame...


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(in reply to Mynok)
Post #: 5
RE: What Am I Doing Wrong? - 12/30/2010 2:57:58 PM   
pompack


Posts: 2562
Joined: 2/8/2004
From: University Park, Texas
Status: offline 		Caveat: non-attributed. The only downside to all of the wonderful people posting hints and tips is that there are so many I can't remember who to thank

Wonderful Hint #3: Never attack with your mobile forces if you can possibly avoid it. The primary weapon of mobile forces is mobility: use the infantry to blow holes in the defense and then use the mobile forces to encircle and isolate. If someone is blocking the road, go around them not through them (unless they are blocking the only good path though swamps).

(in reply to Zovs)
Post #: 6
RE: What Am I Doing Wrong? - 12/30/2010 3:22:40 PM   
KarlXII


Posts: 259
Joined: 8/21/2005
From: Stockholm
Status: offline 		First time I played I only took Minsk on Turn 3 and nothing more. It was a draw. I was too cautious.
Next time I played the Soviets and won and after that I tried again as the Axis and won and then took two other objectives except Minsk.

My tips are:

1) Move always the furthest away troops from the front, first and let them attack the closest russians to make up a path where your panzers can travel through without to much hinderance of enemy ZOCs. There is no reason to let the first echelon of troops take out the closest enemies. Save their movement points for later.
2) Then use your panzers and motorised infantry to move as far as possible, totally ignoring the enemies, except when they block the railroad since you want supplies and also easy terrain to move through. Use the panzers wisely and move the slowest panzers first to make room for the panzers with the highest movement points.
3) Don´t take the southern road east since the it is mainly swamp and movement is very slow. Better to use to spearheads to reach Minsk. One from Nortwest and one from Southwest. In the process you create a huge pocket or smaller ones of the trapped russians.
4) Don´t waste attacks on the russians until they are surrounded, except for making path of the panzers.
5) Don´t prioritise using your infantry to take out the pockets. Let the infantry bordering the first line Soviet troops take care of the clean-up when they are out-of-supply and move all other infantry units after the panzers.
6) Always use Hasty attacks with panzers unless the enemy is heavily fortified or have stacks of units defending across a river. Remember that infantry is better to take out urban city hexes.
7) Don´t waste your fastest panzers to take Minsk on Turn 2 at the cost of not moving toward the next objectives. They should constantly be moving. As long as you are sure to take Minsk on third turn at the latest and protect your supply lines to the Panzers.

That is how I played Minsk.


< Message edited by karlxii -- 12/30/2010 3:24:12 PM >

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Post #: 7
RE: What Am I Doing Wrong? - 12/30/2010 3:28:57 PM   
tgb

 

Posts: 766
Joined: 7/8/2005
Status: offline 		Good suggestions, all.  As someone mentioned, I think my biggest mistake on turn 1 was focusing on making a pocket around the Western portion of the map, rather than just pushing, pushing, pushing East.

(in reply to KarlXII)
Post #: 8
RE: What Am I Doing Wrong? - 12/30/2010 4:56:46 PM   
henri51


Posts: 1151
Joined: 1/16/2009
Status: offline 		Unless the latest beta patch has changed it, the Soviets in my Minsk game abandoned Minsk as well as some other cities like Velikie Luki on the move after I moved units adjacent to them, to avoid encirclement. So it really doesn't matter when you take Minsk, as mentioned by some, the point is to move forward fast. Creating pockets is important, but not at the cost of bogging down your offensive.

Henri

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Post #: 9
RE: What Am I Doing Wrong? - 12/30/2010 5:26:40 PM   
Mynok


Posts: 12108
Joined: 11/30/2002
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: tgb

Good suggestions, all.  As someone mentioned, I think my biggest mistake on turn 1 was focusing on making a pocket around the Western portion of the map, rather than just pushing, pushing, pushing East.


If you make certain that you take control of the hexes of the supply railroad in the north and coming northeast from Brest-Litovsk with your motorized/panzer forces, then meet with both pincers at Minsk, isolate it and move on toward the eastern objectives, you will naturally form a large pocket of the entire western Soviet forces.



_____________________________

"Measure civilization by the ability of citizens to mock government with impunity" -- Unknown

(in reply to tgb)
Post #: 10
RE: What Am I Doing Wrong? - 12/30/2010 5:27:58 PM   
Mynok


Posts: 12108
Joined: 11/30/2002
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Mynok


quote:

ORIGINAL: tgb

Good suggestions, all.  As someone mentioned, I think my biggest mistake on turn 1 was focusing on making a pocket around the Western portion of the map, rather than just pushing, pushing, pushing East.


If you make certain that you take control of the hexes of the supply railroad in the north and coming northeast from Brest-Litovsk with your motorized/panzer forces, then meet with both pincers at Minsk, isolate it and move on toward the eastern objectives, you will naturally form a large pocket of the entire western Soviet forces.


quote:


Move always the furthest away troops from the front, first and let them attack the closest russians to make up a path where your panzers can travel through without to much hinderance of enemy ZOCs. There is no reason to let the first echelon of troops take out the closest enemies. Save their movement points for later.


This is also key. Your frontline infantry can move the furthest, so save as many of their movement points as possible.


_____________________________

"Measure civilization by the ability of citizens to mock government with impunity" -- Unknown

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Post #: 11
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