Matrix Games Forums

Forums  Register  Login  Photo Gallery  Member List  Search  Calendars  FAQ 

My Profile  Inbox  Address Book  My Subscription  My Forums  Log Out

Server-based PBEM - yay!

 
View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Logged in as: Guest
Users viewing this topic: none
  Printable Version
All Forums >> [New Releases from Matrix Games] >> Gary Grigsby's War in the East Series >> Server-based PBEM - yay! Page: [1]
Login
Message << Older Topic   Newer Topic >>
Server-based PBEM - yay! - 12/6/2010 1:27:06 PM   
dobeln

 

Posts: 311
Joined: 3/28/2005
Status: offline
Just noted that this game has server-based PBEM, something that I have long wanted for all PBEM games that Iīve ever played. Hype level +1.

This is both in order to avoid that lurking feeling of possible cheatitude when the opponent gets a perfect turn, and because PBEM can be turned into something very "modern" if given some better features for integration, matchmaking, etc.

After all, PBEM-like games are doing very well on the iPhone, etc. - PBEM doesnīt have to be something "ancient", and can be brought into the modern world with some slick interface / technical work. In short, I have another reason to be excited to see what Gary and the guys have come up with.

I also have a feeling that the concept will be ripe for being developed, with scheduling features, etc. for setting up sessions, and so on.

Side note:
PBEM is essential for motivating myself in playing "monster size" games. I just canīt summon up the patience to put hours into a turn when all that I am doing is AI stomping. When I play the AI, "narrative flow" is much more important for the game compared to in a PBEM.

PS.

Iīd buy a GGWaW (best game ever, period) remake just for server-based PBEM features.
Post #: 1
RE: Server-based PBEM - yay! - 12/6/2010 1:37:13 PM   
blastpop


Posts: 394
Joined: 11/27/2005
From: Connecticut
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: dobeln

Just noted that this game has server-based PBEM, something that I have long wanted for all PBEM games that Iīve ever played. Hype level +1.



I wasn't aware of this. I wonder if it is similar in style and execution to the Slitherine system for their PBEM games. If this is true it would be wonderful.

(in reply to dobeln)
Post #: 2
RE: Server-based PBEM - yay! - 12/6/2010 1:49:44 PM   
Erik Rutins

 

Posts: 34454
Joined: 3/28/2000
From: Vermont, USA
Status: offline
Yes, it is in fact the same system as on Field of Glory and Battlefield Academy. We also included "traditional" PBEM as an option for those who prefer that, but I think the Server-based is much easier to use.

_____________________________


Erik Rutins
Director of Product Development




For official support, please use our Help Desk: http://www.matrixgames.com/helpdesk/

Freedom is not Free.

(in reply to blastpop)
Post #: 3
RE: Server-based PBEM - yay! - 12/6/2010 1:58:57 PM   
dobeln

 

Posts: 311
Joined: 3/28/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Erik Rutins

Yes, it is in fact the same system as on Field of Glory and Battlefield Academy. We also included "traditional" PBEM as an option for those who prefer that, but I think the Server-based is much easier to use.


Great to hear Erik - after reading up on the Slitherine system, it would seem that the turns that your opponent completes just pop up in your files. If so, thatīs a fantastic advance in PBEM.

Curious / question to anyone who has used the Slith system: How does the anticheat work? I reckon that the server keeps track if you try to reopen the file. Does the game autosave to the server as you execute your turn? Just thinking about how, say, an accidental shutdown / program closing is handled.

(in reply to Erik Rutins)
Post #: 4
RE: Server-based PBEM - yay! - 12/6/2010 3:17:23 PM   
JudgeDredd


Posts: 8564
Joined: 11/14/2003
From: Scotland
Status: offline
I cannot play PBEM. The mechanism disjoints the flow of the game and doesn't really keep my focus - one reason why I don't play multiplayer.

Of course, I don't play multiplayer with the likes of HoI because I simply can't organise the time to play.

Two reasons why I like a half decent AI.

_____________________________

Alba gu' brath

(in reply to dobeln)
Post #: 5
RE: Server-based PBEM - yay! - 12/6/2010 3:26:04 PM   
dobeln

 

Posts: 311
Joined: 3/28/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: JudgeDredd

I cannot play PBEM. The mechanism disjoints the flow of the game and doesn't really keep my focus - one reason why I don't play multiplayer.

Of course, I don't play multiplayer with the likes of HoI because I simply can't organise the time to play.

Two reasons why I like a half decent AI.


We all have different preferences - to me waiting for a PBEM turn in a tense game is akin to a light version of waiting for santa. ;) Itīs something you donīt get with AI... (Not to diss AI too much - but I have different preferences for AI games vis a vis PBEM focused games.)

(in reply to JudgeDredd)
Post #: 6
RE: Server-based PBEM - yay! - 12/6/2010 5:46:29 PM   
raizer

 

Posts: 276
Joined: 12/6/2010
Status: offline
Any idea how long this pbem server will take to get up and running after the game comes out?

(in reply to dobeln)
Post #: 7
RE: Server-based PBEM - yay! - 12/6/2010 6:19:38 PM   
Joel Billings


Posts: 28828
Joined: 9/20/2000
From: Santa Rosa, CA
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: raizer

Any idea how long this pbem server will take to get up and running after the game comes out?


It's up and running now.

_____________________________

All understanding comes after the fact.
-- Soren Kierkegaard

(in reply to raizer)
Post #: 8
RE: Server-based PBEM - yay! - 12/6/2010 6:59:44 PM   
CheerfullyInsane

 

Posts: 199
Joined: 12/5/2010
From: Birkerod, Denmark
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: dobeln


quote:

ORIGINAL: Erik Rutins

Yes, it is in fact the same system as on Field of Glory and Battlefield Academy. We also included "traditional" PBEM as an option for those who prefer that, but I think the Server-based is much easier to use.


Great to hear Erik - after reading up on the Slitherine system, it would seem that the turns that your opponent completes just pop up in your files. If so, thatīs a fantastic advance in PBEM.

Curious / question to anyone who has used the Slith system: How does the anticheat work? I reckon that the server keeps track if you try to reopen the file. Does the game autosave to the server as you execute your turn? Just thinking about how, say, an accidental shutdown / program closing is handled.


Well, presumably they will have changed a few things, but the way it works in Field of Glory is as follows:
First, there isn't a file on your local system, everything is on the server.
The PBEM program simply has a list of your games and will let you know when it's your turn.
I assume this means that you have to be online when playing, but since I'm always online as soon as I boot my PC I can't say for sure.
You can close the game at any point, restarting it at leisure, so I would think that accidental shutdowns shouldn't be a problem. FoG is a tactical game where it doesn't take hours to do a turn, so I can't say if you'll have to start your turn completely over if the gremlins take over your comp. Or in other words, I'm not sure whether the PBEM engine updates the turn realtime. I shouldn't think so, but I'm not PC savvy enough to say for sure.
As for anti-cheating, it's very simple. While you do have an 'undo' button, with Fog of War turned on it is disabled when you 1) discover a new enemy unit, and 2) when you attack.
So basically you can step back your turn until such a point where you could gain an advantage.
There are pros and cons to this though, and I can't say if they've simply copied the system to WitE.
The advantage is obviously that cheating through reloading of games is impossible, unless you decide to hack the system....Which IMHO is just sad.

However, a lot of FoG players (myself included) have started to play with Fog of War turned off simply because it's too easy to make a mistake. Click the wrong hex, and boom....Your unit is caught in place.
And when you're playing 12+ games simultaneously you tend to speed through your turns, which makes it a little annoying to have to be so careful with unit-placement.
Arguably it doesn't matter all that much in FoG, since it's a tactical game where the battlelines are pretty much in open view all the time. Not to mention that it is a small game with perhaps a max. of 80-90 units per player, so any surprises gained through Fog of War are reasonably short-lived anyway.
But I could imagine that it would be an issue in WitE.
Not a major one mind you, but I would think that it means you'll have to be very careful when moving your panzers through the enemy hinterland.

Hope the above helps a little re. the PBEM system.

Lars

(in reply to dobeln)
Post #: 9
RE: Server-based PBEM - yay! - 12/6/2010 7:04:24 PM   
sillyflower


Posts: 3092
Joined: 8/4/2010
From: Back in Blighty
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: dobeln

Just noted that this game has server-based PBEM, something that I have long wanted for all PBEM games that Iīve ever played. Hype level +1.

This is both in order to avoid that lurking feeling of possible cheatitude when the opponent gets a perfect turn, and because PBEM can be turned into something very "modern" if given some better features for integration, matchmaking, etc.



Not sure if my wife will let me play anything involving matchmaking...........................

_____________________________

web exchange

Post: I am always fearful that when I put this game down on the table and people see the box-art they will think I am some kind of neo-Nazi

Reply: They already know you're a gamer. What other shame can possibly compare?

(in reply to dobeln)
Post #: 10
RE: Server-based PBEM - yay! - 12/6/2010 9:59:24 PM   
Fred98


Posts: 4375
Joined: 1/5/2001
From: Wollondilly, Sydney
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: dobeln

We all have different preferences - to me waiting for a PBEM turn in a tense game is akin to a light version of waiting for santa. ;) Itīs something you donīt get with AI...




I agree with that. I never play against the AI.


Note you are still waiting for you're opponent to ;play his turn - server based or not.

-



(in reply to dobeln)
Post #: 11
RE: Server-based PBEM - yay! - 12/6/2010 10:33:36 PM   
Crimguy


Posts: 1407
Joined: 8/15/2003
From: Cave Creek, AZ
Status: offline
Dumb question (and I've never looked into your system at all, so forgive the ignorance): If for some reason the server fails, is shut down/abandoned, can the players continue as a regular pbem game?

_____________________________

________________________
www.azcrimes.com
<sig removed because I'm a bandwidth hog>

(in reply to raizer)
Post #: 12
RE: Server-based PBEM - yay! - 12/6/2010 11:00:52 PM   
CheerfullyInsane

 

Posts: 199
Joined: 12/5/2010
From: Birkerod, Denmark
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Crimguy

Dumb question (and I've never looked into your system at all, so forgive the ignorance): If for some reason the server fails, is shut down/abandoned, can the players continue as a regular pbem game?


I'm pretty sure the server part is optional, so that you can use a 'regular' PBEM game should you wish.
I'm fairly certain I read that in some other WitE thread, though with old age and early onset of senility, my memory is less than trustworthy these days.

_____________________________

"Something is always wrong, Baldrick. The fact that I'm not a millionaire aristocrat with the sexual capacity of a rutting rhino is a constant niggle"
- Edmund Blackadder

(in reply to Crimguy)
Post #: 13
RE: Server-based PBEM - yay! - 12/6/2010 11:07:42 PM   
Great_Ajax


Posts: 4294
Joined: 10/28/2002
Status: offline
Yes, you can still swap files the old fashioned way.

Trey

quote:

ORIGINAL: CheerfullyInsane


quote:

ORIGINAL: Crimguy

Dumb question (and I've never looked into your system at all, so forgive the ignorance): If for some reason the server fails, is shut down/abandoned, can the players continue as a regular pbem game?


I'm pretty sure the server part is optional, so that you can use a 'regular' PBEM game should you wish.
I'm fairly certain I read that in some other WitE thread, though with old age and early onset of senility, my memory is less than trustworthy these days.



_____________________________

"You want mercy!? I'm chaotic neutral!"

WiTE Scenario Designer
WitW Scenario/Data Team Lead
Sabre 21's perpetual arch-nemisis

(in reply to CheerfullyInsane)
Post #: 14
RE: Server-based PBEM - yay! - 12/6/2010 11:53:24 PM   
Pford

 

Posts: 235
Joined: 11/10/2006
Status: offline
Kind of curious that this server based PBEM system is getting so much attention, with emphasis on the security aspect rather than the convenience. There's must have been a whole lot of suspected cheatin' going on in the past. That no one wanted to talk about.

< Message edited by Pford -- 12/7/2010 12:01:57 AM >

(in reply to Great_Ajax)
Post #: 15
RE: Server-based PBEM - yay! - 12/7/2010 12:02:00 AM   
hgilmer3


Posts: 530
Joined: 12/28/2008
Status: offline
I like it.  It will help me make the jump from purely playing the AI to playing people in PBEM.

(in reply to Pford)
Post #: 16
RE: Server-based PBEM - yay! - 12/7/2010 12:35:03 AM   
Michael T


Posts: 4392
Joined: 10/22/2006
From: Queensland, Australia.
Status: offline
It's peace of mind for me. I *know* within reason I am not getting cheated with the Server PBEM. And I know that no suspicion will be cast upon myself when that perfect move comes off. All good. If more conveinient even better. It also means touney's can be run and the results will be credible. Not so with other methods that provide nil security and just rely on honesty.

_____________________________


(in reply to hgilmer3)
Post #: 17
RE: Server-based PBEM - yay! - 12/7/2010 1:34:05 AM   
Ola Berli


Posts: 133
Joined: 2/7/2005
Status: offline
Hello Michael, have a slot open for me! Nothing is like the East Front

_____________________________

War does not determine who is right - only who is left.

(in reply to Michael T)
Post #: 18
RE: Server-based PBEM - yay! - 12/7/2010 1:40:28 AM   
Michael T


Posts: 4392
Joined: 10/22/2006
From: Queensland, Australia.
Status: offline
For sure Ola, I haven't forgetten the promise I made. The holy grail is almost here :)

_____________________________


(in reply to Ola Berli)
Post #: 19
RE: Server-based PBEM - yay! - 12/7/2010 9:17:25 AM   
dobeln

 

Posts: 311
Joined: 3/28/2005
Status: offline
quote:

There's must have been a whole lot of suspected cheatin' going on in the past. That no one wanted to talk about.


More like "a small sense of unease". After all, we all know how pissed off we ourselves can get when we fall just a *little* short of that objective... Grrr...

(in reply to hgilmer3)
Post #: 20
RE: Server-based PBEM - yay! - 12/7/2010 9:49:00 AM   
JudgeDredd


Posts: 8564
Joined: 11/14/2003
From: Scotland
Status: offline
quote:

More like "a small sense of unease". After all, we all know how pissed off we ourselves can get when we fall just a *little* short of that objective... Grrr...

Maybe so - but it saddens me that people put such an emphasis on winning that they cheat

I'd like to believe that whomever I am playing against has the balls to take his mistakes on the chin. But, I think more crucially, if I start thinking he could be cheating because of his game choices then I'm not giving him the credit for his moves and therefore perhaps I shouldn't be playing pbem.

I think someone asked the question above and I'm not sure they got the answer they wanted (as I interpreted the question anyway)...if the server no longer becomes available, can you continue your PBEM game (server based one) without using the server, or would you have to start a new pbem game?

_____________________________

Alba gu' brath

(in reply to dobeln)
Post #: 21
RE: Server-based PBEM - yay! - 12/7/2010 10:04:35 AM   
dobeln

 

Posts: 311
Joined: 3/28/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: JudgeDredd
Maybe so - but it saddens me that people put such an emphasis on winning that they cheat


I donīt think itīs that common. But remember, "trust but verify" - this will make PBEM more satisfying even if we posit that there was no cheating going on whatsoever before server-based PBEM. :)

(in reply to JudgeDredd)
Post #: 22
RE: Server-based PBEM - yay! - 12/7/2010 10:08:24 AM   
TemujinOz


Posts: 23
Joined: 3/21/2010
Status: offline
If the server was 'off line', you would not be able to continue a game in progress. There are no local files when using the server based system, everything lives on the server.

Having said that, the server(s) in question are the Slitherine servers, so the chances of problems are greater than zero, but only just.

_____________________________


(in reply to JudgeDredd)
Post #: 23
RE: Server-based PBEM - yay! - 12/7/2010 10:45:51 AM   
JudgeDredd


Posts: 8564
Joined: 11/14/2003
From: Scotland
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: dobeln


quote:

ORIGINAL: JudgeDredd
Maybe so - but it saddens me that people put such an emphasis on winning that they cheat


I donīt think itīs that common. But remember, "trust but verify" - this will make PBEM more satisfying even if we posit that there was no cheating going on whatsoever before server-based PBEM. :)

I have no doubt that it is rare - but that kind of makes the fact that we need (or like the idea) of a server to verify PBEM games that little bit sadder tbh.

And the "trust but verify"...? The verify statement kind of negates the trust element.

Anyway - regardless I'll leave you all to your PBEM glory. I very much doubt I'll be taking part in PBEM anyway (the chances are greater than 0 - but only just ) because I trust none of you

_____________________________

Alba gu' brath

(in reply to dobeln)
Post #: 24
RE: Server-based PBEM - yay! - 12/7/2010 12:55:53 PM   
dobeln

 

Posts: 311
Joined: 3/28/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: JudgeDredd
And the "trust but verify"...? The verify statement kind of negates the trust element.


Nah, it just weakens it. Very few instances of trust are total, after all. ;)

(in reply to JudgeDredd)
Post #: 25
RE: Server-based PBEM - yay! - 12/7/2010 3:04:10 PM   
CheerfullyInsane

 

Posts: 199
Joined: 12/5/2010
From: Birkerod, Denmark
Status: offline
Fair enough, dispensing with the cheating aspect of the PBEM system.

The challenge system (assuming that they carried that over from FoG) is the real beauty of the thing.
Want a PBEM game?
Simply post an open challenge, and anyone who logs on can pick it up.
If you want to play a specific person, you can password-lock it and use boards/E-mail to send the password to your opponent.
But the treat for me is the open challenge. Usually I will play anyone at anytime, so whenever I feel like a human opponent for FoG I simply post an open challenge.
Now FoG is a tactical game, with max. 20 turns so a game will finish in 3-4 days depending on time-zones, so there will arguably be fewer games started for something like WitE.
But as a comparison the longest I've ever had a standing FoG open challenge before someone picked it up is 20 minutes.
If you've never done PBEM, this is the perfect way to get into it.
This thing is IMHO an invention that is right up there with pizza and remote-control.

4 more hours.....


_____________________________

"Something is always wrong, Baldrick. The fact that I'm not a millionaire aristocrat with the sexual capacity of a rutting rhino is a constant niggle"
- Edmund Blackadder

(in reply to dobeln)
Post #: 26
RE: Server-based PBEM - yay! - 12/7/2010 4:23:12 PM   
dobeln

 

Posts: 311
Joined: 3/28/2005
Status: offline
Sounds fantastic!

quote:

ORIGINAL: CheerfullyInsane

Fair enough, dispensing with the cheating aspect of the PBEM system.

The challenge system (assuming that they carried that over from FoG) is the real beauty of the thing.
Want a PBEM game?
Simply post an open challenge, and anyone who logs on can pick it up.
If you want to play a specific person, you can password-lock it and use boards/E-mail to send the password to your opponent.
But the treat for me is the open challenge. Usually I will play anyone at anytime, so whenever I feel like a human opponent for FoG I simply post an open challenge.
Now FoG is a tactical game, with max. 20 turns so a game will finish in 3-4 days depending on time-zones, so there will arguably be fewer games started for something like WitE.
But as a comparison the longest I've ever had a standing FoG open challenge before someone picked it up is 20 minutes.
If you've never done PBEM, this is the perfect way to get into it.
This thing is IMHO an invention that is right up there with pizza and remote-control.

4 more hours.....



(in reply to CheerfullyInsane)
Post #: 27
RE: Server-based PBEM - yay! - 12/7/2010 7:41:45 PM   
Pford

 

Posts: 235
Joined: 11/10/2006
Status: offline
I played Battlefield Academy on the Slitherine servers for a while until getting a bit bored with the game; cute but it little too wargaming lite for my taste (mortar and mg teams were stationary!, this bugged me, lol) . This was a couple of months ago. One issue their system had- at the time- was an inability on the part of the player to delete old games. This had to be done by the administrator. Also, it kept a public record of ones wins & losses, as well as games played. A bit invasive from a privacy pov, imo.

(in reply to dobeln)
Post #: 28
RE: Server-based PBEM - yay! - 12/7/2010 7:57:40 PM   
CheerfullyInsane

 

Posts: 199
Joined: 12/5/2010
From: Birkerod, Denmark
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Pford

I played Battlefield Academy on the Slitherine servers for a while until getting a bit bored with the game; cute but it little too wargaming lite for my taste (mortar and mg teams were stationary!, this bugged me, lol) . This was a couple of months ago. One issue their system had- at the time- was an inability on the part of the player to delete old games. This had to be done by the administrator. Also, it kept a public record of ones wins & losses, as well as games played. A bit invasive from a privacy pov, imo.


Never tried Battlefiled Academy, but they've changed a few things in FoG. (or vice-versa I suppose)

It still keeps a record, but only for games played against the AI for some obscure reason, and it's only made public if you link the statistics to your board account.
You still can't delete old games from your list, but there is a function that allows you to claim a win if there is no enemy activity for a specific time (a month IIRC).
Shouldn't be an item with WitE simply because you're less liable to have scores of games running simultaneously.


_____________________________

"Something is always wrong, Baldrick. The fact that I'm not a millionaire aristocrat with the sexual capacity of a rutting rhino is a constant niggle"
- Edmund Blackadder

(in reply to Pford)
Post #: 29
RE: Server-based PBEM - yay! - 12/7/2010 11:32:04 PM   
Rosseau

 

Posts: 2509
Joined: 9/13/2009
Status: offline
FWIW, it's a wonderful system. Never played MP in 20 years until FoG and BA came out. And now, WitE has it!

Hopefully, one of the testers will write WitE for dummies. That's quite a manual to digest, and I would never submit someone to an MP game unless I knew what I was doing.

This is really good, though...

(in reply to CheerfullyInsane)
Post #: 30
Page:   [1]
All Forums >> [New Releases from Matrix Games] >> Gary Grigsby's War in the East Series >> Server-based PBEM - yay! Page: [1]
Jump to:





New Messages No New Messages
Hot Topic w/ New Messages Hot Topic w/o New Messages
Locked w/ New Messages Locked w/o New Messages
 Post New Thread
 Reply to Message
 Post New Poll
 Submit Vote
 Delete My Own Post
 Delete My Own Thread
 Rate Posts


Forum Software © ASPPlayground.NET Advanced Edition 2.4.5 ANSI

0.180