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Base Supply and Fuel limits - 10/26/2010 5:16:11 PM   
Buck Beach

 

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From: Upland,CA,USA
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What determines the limits that are in these fields on the Base Information Screen? They do not seem to correlate to the Port or Airfield sizes. Some cities do not have any limits stated. How would I go about setting these limits? Also, why do some/many of the land locked bases have limitations of fuel? Does it have to do with the flow of fuel through those bases to port cities?

The Editor has a field in the Location data for a "Supply Cap", however, I don't see where this is utilized for any of the locations (all are set to zero). Also I don't see this field or the ME box to its left described in the Editor Manual)
Post #: 1
RE: Base Supply and Fuel limits - 10/26/2010 6:06:47 PM   
witpqs


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I'm pretty sure the "Supply Cap" field has to do with limitations on daily received supply in NW Australia and in the border region of Burma (during wet monsoon). Don't know answers to your other questions.

(in reply to Buck Beach)
Post #: 2
RE: Base Supply and Fuel limits - 10/27/2010 6:13:49 PM   
Herrbear


Posts: 883
Joined: 7/26/2004
From: Glendora, CA
Status: offline
Deleted - Misread your question.

< Message edited by Herrbear -- 10/27/2010 6:17:44 PM >

(in reply to Buck Beach)
Post #: 3
RE: Base Supply and Fuel limits - 10/27/2010 10:19:48 PM   
VSWG


Posts: 3432
Joined: 5/31/2006
From: Germany
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15.7 SPOILAGE
Spoilage (or waste) of fuel and supplies at a base may occur, based on the size of the base. To
determine this possibility, first add the port and airfield sizes. Any base with combined port and
airfield of 10 or more has no spoilage. Otherwise:
»» Fuel over 1000 + ( ( port + airfield size ) * ( port +
airfield size ) *2000 ) suffers spoilage.
»» Supplies over 5000 + ( ( port + airfield size ) * ( port
+ airfield size ) * 3000 ) suffers spoilage.

_____________________________


(in reply to Herrbear)
Post #: 4
RE: Base Supply and Fuel limits - 10/28/2010 1:39:11 AM   
Buck Beach

 

Posts: 1960
Joined: 6/25/2000
From: Upland,CA,USA
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: VSWG

15.7 SPOILAGE
Spoilage (or waste) of fuel and supplies at a base may occur, based on the size of the base. To
determine this possibility, first add the port and airfield sizes. Any base with combined port and
airfield of 10 or more has no spoilage. Otherwise:
»» Fuel over 1000 + ( ( port + airfield size ) * ( port +
airfield size ) *2000 ) suffers spoilage.
»» Supplies over 5000 + ( ( port + airfield size ) * ( port
+ airfield size ) * 3000 ) suffers spoilage.


Thank you for your reply but I don't think that's it. Take a look at some bases, these seem to put a maximum amount for both supplies and fuel, having nothing to due with spoilage. Also, there are numerous bases (eg Perth, Brisbane, Calcutta, Abadan, Madras, Trincomlee) that are less than an aggregate 10 (and subject to spoilage) where these numbers do not show and thus appear not subject to any limitation. Interesting to note however, that any base with a combination port+airbase of nine or more fits into the unlimited category.

Still a mystery!! Where are those in the know. Might have to post under the sticky for bases in the main forum for Joe, Andrew, Mr.T, etc to answer.

Thanks again,

Buck

(in reply to VSWG)
Post #: 5
RE: Base Supply and Fuel limits - 10/28/2010 3:35:06 AM   
Alfred

 

Posts: 5666
Joined: 9/28/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Buck Beach


quote:

ORIGINAL: VSWG

15.7 SPOILAGE
Spoilage (or waste) of fuel and supplies at a base may occur, based on the size of the base. To
determine this possibility, first add the port and airfield sizes. Any base with combined port and
airfield of 10 or more has no spoilage. Otherwise:
»» Fuel over 1000 + ( ( port + airfield size ) * ( port +
airfield size ) *2000 ) suffers spoilage.
»» Supplies over 5000 + ( ( port + airfield size ) * ( port
+ airfield size ) * 3000 ) suffers spoilage.


Thank you for your reply but I don't think that's it. Take a look at some bases, these seem to put a maximum amount for both supplies and fuel, having nothing to due with spoilage. Also, there are numerous bases (eg Perth, Brisbane, Calcutta, Abadan, Madras, Trincomlee) that are less than an aggregate 10 (and subject to spoilage) where these numbers do not show and thus appear not subject to any limitation. Interesting to note however, that any base with a combination port+airbase of nine or more fits into the unlimited category.

Still a mystery!! Where are those in the know. Might have to post under the sticky for bases in the main forum for Joe, Andrew, Mr.T, etc to answer.

Thanks again,

Buck


A subsequent patch modified the manual. Spoilage no longer occurs once a base's combined port + airfield reaches 9 (previously 10 as per the manual). The bases you identified will not suffer spoilage if aggregate developement is 9 but they will see supply/fuel auto transferred to their bigger nearby depots.

Alfred

(in reply to Buck Beach)
Post #: 6
RE: Base Supply and Fuel limits - 10/28/2010 5:25:20 AM   
Buck Beach

 

Posts: 1960
Joined: 6/25/2000
From: Upland,CA,USA
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Alfred


quote:

ORIGINAL: Buck Beach


quote:

ORIGINAL: VSWG

15.7 SPOILAGE
Spoilage (or waste) of fuel and supplies at a base may occur, based on the size of the base. To
determine this possibility, first add the port and airfield sizes. Any base with combined port and
airfield of 10 or more has no spoilage. Otherwise:
»» Fuel over 1000 + ( ( port + airfield size ) * ( port +
airfield size ) *2000 ) suffers spoilage.
»» Supplies over 5000 + ( ( port + airfield size ) * ( port
+ airfield size ) * 3000 ) suffers spoilage.


Thank you for your reply but I don't think that's it. Take a look at some bases, these seem to put a maximum amount for both supplies and fuel, having nothing to due with spoilage. Also, there are numerous bases (eg Perth, Brisbane, Calcutta, Abadan, Madras, Trincomlee) that are less than an aggregate 10 (and subject to spoilage) where these numbers do not show and thus appear not subject to any limitation. Interesting to note however, that any base with a combination port+airbase of nine or more fits into the unlimited category.

Still a mystery!! Where are those in the know. Might have to post under the sticky for bases in the main forum for Joe, Andrew, Mr.T, etc to answer.

Thanks again,

Buck


A subsequent patch modified the manual. Spoilage no longer occurs once a base's combined port + airfield reaches 9 (previously 10 as per the manual). The bases you identified will not suffer spoilage if aggregate developement is 9 but they will see supply/fuel auto transferred to their bigger nearby depots.

Alfred


Just went over the changes made with patches one by one and couldn't find the reduction to 9 you refer too. Would you mind pointing out where where you found this?

I'm still confused as to how the supply and fuel limitations are set for each base (under 9 aggregate).

Buck

(in reply to Alfred)
Post #: 7
RE: Base Supply and Fuel limits - 10/28/2010 6:21:25 AM   
Alfred

 

Posts: 5666
Joined: 9/28/2006
Status: offline

[/quote]

Just went over the changes made with patches one by one and couldn't find the reduction to 9 you refer too. Would you mind pointing out where where you found this?

I'm still confused as to how the supply and fuel limitations are set for each base (under 9 aggregate).

Buck

[/quote]

It was referred to (obliquely) in patch 3 [v1.01.02a Feb28, 2010]

91. Interface Improvement: Added supply and fuel spoilage limit to base screen if
there is a limit (af + port < 9).


IIRC there have been independent posts made by devs which explicitly state the spoilage threshold has been reduced from 10 to 9. I will have to do a search on the forum to dig out those posts.

Alfred

(in reply to Buck Beach)
Post #: 8
RE: Base Supply and Fuel limits - 10/28/2010 6:44:02 AM   
Alfred

 

Posts: 5666
Joined: 9/28/2006
Status: offline
Buck Beach,

Also have a look at this thread:

www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=2371362&mpage=1&key=spoilage?

I think we can consider BigJ62 to be a dev. Hence the value of his post which reinforces note 91 of patch 3.


Alfred

< Message edited by Alfred -- 10/28/2010 6:45:01 AM >

(in reply to Alfred)
Post #: 9
RE: Base Supply and Fuel limits - 10/28/2010 9:07:52 AM   
Smeulders

 

Posts: 1879
Joined: 8/9/2009
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: witpqs

I'm pretty sure the "Supply Cap" field has to do with limitations on daily received supply in NW Australia and in the border region of Burma (during wet monsoon). Don't know answers to your other questions.


This is correct, "supply cap" is the maximum amount of supply that can flow into the base on a given day from overland movement. (Does not limit supply being shipped or flown in) A value of 0 means that there is no limit at this particular base. The ME box is to check whether or not this base suffers from Monsoon effects, if the box is checked, the value of the supply cap is halved during the Monsoon season. To find bases that use these boxes you should take a look at the Indian bases just over the Burma border, almost all of Burma and Thailand and Northern Australia.

(in reply to witpqs)
Post #: 10
RE: Base Supply and Fuel limits - 10/28/2010 3:22:57 PM   
Buck Beach

 

Posts: 1960
Joined: 6/25/2000
From: Upland,CA,USA
Status: offline
Alfred & Smeulders, thanks guys you have cleared up most of my questions.   Still confused as to how to interpret those supply and fuel limits on the screen, but am content to just say those are "under the hood" items having little effect on my play.

Thanks again

Buck 

(in reply to Smeulders)
Post #: 11
RE: Base Supply and Fuel limits - 10/28/2010 3:28:54 PM   
witpqs


Posts: 24099
Joined: 10/4/2004
From: Argleton
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Buck Beach

Alfred & Smeulders, thanks guys you have cleared up most of my questions.   Still confused as to how to interpret those supply and fuel limits on the screen, but am content to just say those are "under the hood" items having little effect on my play.

Thanks again

Buck 


Go above the limit and spoilage can occur. Stay below the limit and no spoilage.

(in reply to Buck Beach)
Post #: 12
RE: Base Supply and Fuel limits - 10/28/2010 4:59:54 PM   
Sardaukar


Posts: 7178
Joined: 11/28/2001
From: Finland/Israel
Status: online
Just to clarify, as said above:

- supply cap is the value in brackets (if any) next to daily supply value = daily amount of supply that can move into and via base (can be raised by building AF/Port/Fort size).
- supply and fuel limits = values in base screen upper right side = max amount of supply and fuel that can be stored to base without spoilage. 

_____________________________

"To meaningless French Idealism, Liberty, Fraternity and Equality...we answer with German Realism, Infantry, Cavalry and Artillery" -Prince von Bülov, 1870-


(in reply to witpqs)
Post #: 13
RE: Base Supply and Fuel limits - 10/28/2010 5:49:06 PM   
Buck Beach

 

Posts: 1960
Joined: 6/25/2000
From: Upland,CA,USA
Status: offline
And now I am "on board".  Thanks a million everybody.  I'm more than just a little thick (DUH) but I get it.

Buck

(in reply to Sardaukar)
Post #: 14
RE: Base Supply and Fuel limits - 10/28/2010 7:17:10 PM   
Bullwinkle58


Posts: 11302
Joined: 2/24/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Sardaukar

Just to clarify, as said above:

- supply cap is the value in brackets (if any) next to daily supply value = daily amount of supply that can move into and via base (can be raised by building AF/Port/Fort size).
- supply and fuel limits = values in base screen upper right side = max amount of supply and fuel that can be stored to base without spoilage. 


To beat the dead horse just a bit, as this has made a light bulb come on for me as well, in the bolded part above, do you mean parentheses instead of brackets? Are you referring to the line on the top left side of the base info screen captioned "Supplies", and where there is a flow restriction it has additionally, "(max ___") with a number in the blank?

If so, I now realize much better why Imphal won't build supplies. In fact, most of NE India, despite being on railroads, is starved on that "max" number. I had been focusing on the top right-side numbers which I now know are spoilage related. I had thought those were flow numbers, post-patch.

_____________________________

The Moose

(in reply to Sardaukar)
Post #: 15
RE: Base Supply and Fuel limits - 10/28/2010 9:51:30 PM   
witpqs


Posts: 24099
Joined: 10/4/2004
From: Argleton
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sardaukar

Just to clarify, as said above:

- supply cap is the value in brackets (if any) next to daily supply value = daily amount of supply that can move into and via base (can be raised by building AF/Port/Fort size).
- supply and fuel limits = values in base screen upper right side = max amount of supply and fuel that can be stored to base without spoilage. 


To beat the dead horse just a bit, as this has made a light bulb come on for me as well, in the bolded part above, do you mean parentheses instead of brackets? Are you referring to the line on the top left side of the base info screen captioned "Supplies", and where there is a flow restriction it has additionally, "(max ___") with a number in the blank?

If so, I now realize much better why Imphal won't build supplies. In fact, most of NE India, despite being on railroads, is starved on that "max" number. I had been focusing on the top right-side numbers which I now know are spoilage related. I had thought those were flow numbers, post-patch.


Yes. And as you build fortifications, airfields, and ports the cap increases.

Note also that part of India is fed by limited rail capacity (use the Y key to see what I mean).

(in reply to Bullwinkle58)
Post #: 16
RE: Base Supply and Fuel limits - 10/28/2010 10:06:40 PM   
Bullwinkle58


Posts: 11302
Joined: 2/24/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: witpqs


quote:

ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sardaukar

Just to clarify, as said above:

- supply cap is the value in brackets (if any) next to daily supply value = daily amount of supply that can move into and via base (can be raised by building AF/Port/Fort size).
- supply and fuel limits = values in base screen upper right side = max amount of supply and fuel that can be stored to base without spoilage. 


To beat the dead horse just a bit, as this has made a light bulb come on for me as well, in the bolded part above, do you mean parentheses instead of brackets? Are you referring to the line on the top left side of the base info screen captioned "Supplies", and where there is a flow restriction it has additionally, "(max ___") with a number in the blank?

If so, I now realize much better why Imphal won't build supplies. In fact, most of NE India, despite being on railroads, is starved on that "max" number. I had been focusing on the top right-side numbers which I now know are spoilage related. I had thought those were flow numbers, post-patch.


Yes. And as you build fortifications, airfields, and ports the cap increases.

Note also that part of India is fed by limited rail capacity (use the Y key to see what I mean).


Thanks. The notation is a bit confusing since organic supply generation, such as in some Chinese bases, uses a slash I believe, and no transport in is necessary.

I've used the Y key there, and I don't see what you mean, really. If it was narrow-guage RR I can easily see that there would be less capacity, but is 300 tons a day on even a small railway too much? I'm not up on my railroad tech, but that seems like a very few cars.

< Message edited by Bullwinkle58 -- 10/28/2010 10:07:13 PM >


_____________________________

The Moose

(in reply to witpqs)
Post #: 17
RE: Base Supply and Fuel limits - 10/28/2010 10:40:48 PM   
witpqs


Posts: 24099
Joined: 10/4/2004
From: Argleton
Status: offline
What I know is that I have and others have posted that they have seen that area of India build supplies much more slowly than on the other side of that bottle-neck.

(in reply to Bullwinkle58)
Post #: 18
RE: Base Supply and Fuel limits - 10/29/2010 4:35:50 AM   
Alfred

 

Posts: 5666
Joined: 9/28/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58

quote:

ORIGINAL: witpqs


quote:

ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sardaukar

Just to clarify, as said above:

- supply cap is the value in brackets (if any) next to daily supply value = daily amount of supply that can move into and via base (can be raised by building AF/Port/Fort size).
- supply and fuel limits = values in base screen upper right side = max amount of supply and fuel that can be stored to base without spoilage. 


To beat the dead horse just a bit, as this has made a light bulb come on for me as well, in the bolded part above, do you mean parentheses instead of brackets? Are you referring to the line on the top left side of the base info screen captioned "Supplies", and where there is a flow restriction it has additionally, "(max ___") with a number in the blank?

If so, I now realize much better why Imphal won't build supplies. In fact, most of NE India, despite being on railroads, is starved on that "max" number. I had been focusing on the top right-side numbers which I now know are spoilage related. I had thought those were flow numbers, post-patch.


Yes. And as you build fortifications, airfields, and ports the cap increases.

Note also that part of India is fed by limited rail capacity (use the Y key to see what I mean).


Thanks. The notation is a bit confusing since organic supply generation, such as in some Chinese bases, uses a slash I believe, and no transport in is necessary.

I've used the Y key there, and I don't see what you mean, really. If it was narrow-guage RR I can easily see that there would be less capacity, but is 300 tons a day on even a small railway too much? I'm not up on my railroad tech, but that seems like a very few cars.


The supply transportation cost per major railroad hex is 1 whereas it is 2 per minor railroad hex. And before you ask, the cost per main road hex is 3, secondary road it is 5 and for trail it is 10.

Alfred

(in reply to Bullwinkle58)
Post #: 19
RE: Base Supply and Fuel limits - 10/29/2010 2:24:13 PM   
Bullwinkle58


Posts: 11302
Joined: 2/24/2009
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Alfred


The supply transportation cost per major railroad hex is 1 whereas it is 2 per minor railroad hex. And before you ask, the cost per main road hex is 3, secondary road it is 5 and for trail it is 10.

Alfred




_____________________________

The Moose

(in reply to Alfred)
Post #: 20
RE: Base Supply and Fuel limits - 10/29/2010 2:25:47 PM   
Bullwinkle58


Posts: 11302
Joined: 2/24/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: witpqs

What I know is that I have and others have posted that they have seen that area of India build supplies much more slowly than on the other side of that bottle-neck.


I took another look with rested eyes, and I see the (slight) color gradient indicating the difference in RR type. I also see what you meant by "bottleneck." Pretty much a wall there.

Edit: Or, I could be young and vital, and it's my POS 6.5 year-old first-gen flatscreen. Yeah, let's go with that.

< Message edited by Bullwinkle58 -- 10/29/2010 2:26:54 PM >


_____________________________

The Moose

(in reply to witpqs)
Post #: 21
RE: Base Supply and Fuel limits - 10/29/2010 2:45:20 PM   
Sardaukar


Posts: 7178
Joined: 11/28/2001
From: Finland/Israel
Status: online
There is also that Monsoon Effect in Burma/India area which restricts supply flow too.

_____________________________

"To meaningless French Idealism, Liberty, Fraternity and Equality...we answer with German Realism, Infantry, Cavalry and Artillery" -Prince von Bülov, 1870-


(in reply to Bullwinkle58)
Post #: 22
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