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Road to Bastogne Scenario - 10/25/2010 6:45:39 PM   
Capt Cliff


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So what's with the German bridging crews takng so long to put those two bridges in??? 40 hours?? According to Cole in Battle for the Ardennes the bridges were open or done about 2 hours after sunset on the first day! That's 14 to 16 hours. Now the Germans did not have the tinker-toy bridge (Balley) like the Allies had. They built a complete bridge and towed it, or floated it down rivers according to Cole. The German system lacks mobility but cuts erection time in half. I read somewher that the bridging equipment the Germans were going to use to cross the Muese clodded the roads and added to the traffic jam.

Any thoughts. I have modified the scenario upping the German engineers quality and just about everything. But I have not tested it yet.

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RE: Road to Bastogne Scenario - 10/26/2010 12:05:26 AM   
simovitch


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Capt. Cliff, you need to use more than one Engineer at the bridge and you should see 2 at each bridge at start.

Believe me I spent a lot of time modeling the Our River bridge construction operations to be as close to historical as possible - give it a try and report back.


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RE: Road to Bastogne Scenario - 10/26/2010 12:16:33 AM   
Joe D.


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Capt Cliff

... Now the Germans did not have the tinker-toy bridge (Balley) like the Allies had ...


I watched an American engineer unit construct a Bailley over a river bed in Bosnia; judging by the gutfelt grunts of of "lay hold, heave," it was no tinker toy!


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RE: Road to Bastogne Scenario - 10/26/2010 12:43:14 AM   
wodin


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you need to use two engineer units to build the bridge...I was nearly at bastogne in 40 hours!!

don't think there was any need to mod the engineers...could throw out your other scenarios...all you have to do is assign two units per bridge...

< Message edited by wodin -- 10/26/2010 12:44:02 AM >


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RE: Road to Bastogne Scenario - 10/26/2010 3:34:29 AM   
simovitch


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The briefings can help out too:






Attachment (1)

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RE: Road to Bastogne Scenario - 10/26/2010 6:51:28 PM   
Capt Cliff


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Easy guy's ... You start with two bridge capable engineer units, they enter as reinforcements, that can be used to build a bridge. One at each historical bridge site, can't remember the names. There are two other engineer units that start adjacent to the bridge capable ones, one at each location. These other engineer units do not have the icon to "build a bridge". So where do you get this suggestion to use two engineer units to build the bridge? Move one of the bridge capable units to the others location and have it assist??

BTW, the term does tinker toy applies. The Balley bridge is broken into sub-assemblys that can be transported via truck and special trailers. In the movie A Bridge to Far it shows the WWII balley for 40 ton vehicles. No the 70 ton Abrams. The WWII German unit was made as a COMPLETE bridge ... finished except for dragging into place. Cole said they floated it down river.

Oh, if I remember the reason 2nd PZ had trouble crossing was that the first PZIV across ran off the bridge and it took them extra time to push it out of the way.

< Message edited by Capt Cliff -- 10/26/2010 6:52:13 PM >


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RE: Road to Bastogne Scenario - 10/26/2010 6:57:27 PM   
Capt Cliff


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quote:

ORIGINAL: wodin

you need to use two engineer units to build the bridge...I was nearly at bastogne in 40 hours!!

don't think there was any need to mod the engineers...could throw out your other scenarios...all you have to do is assign two units per bridge...



I like my scenario ... I added the I&R platoons to the US 110th regement and put them out there to befuddle the German. If the other engineer at the bridge site can assist then I can try that ... but it is not intuitive how to do it. No bridge build icon on the second engineer unit.

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RE: Road to Bastogne Scenario - 10/26/2010 8:31:27 PM   
simovitch


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Only one of the multiple of engineer units assigned to construct (or prime/unprime) a crossing needs to actually have the bridge. Granted it's not explicitly clear in the manual.

The engineers that enter as reinforcements enter right at the start of the game at the bridge locations with a variable strength. That way there is a slight variation in the time it takes to construct the bridge with every new game... sometimes sooner sometimes later.

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RE: Road to Bastogne Scenario - 10/26/2010 8:32:47 PM   
simovitch


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Capt Cliff
I like my scenario ... I added the I&R platoons to the US 110th regement and put them out there to befuddle the German. If the other engineer at the bridge site can assist then I can try that ... but it is not intuitive how to do it. No bridge build icon on the second engineer unit.

Nice to see you modding right of the bat!


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RE: Road to Bastogne Scenario - 10/26/2010 10:37:18 PM   
wodin


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Yeah I noticed that aswell....only two units having build bridge and two without but I just lassoed two together and sent them in,,,only after trying it with on first time and realising it was taking way to long....

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RE: Road to Bastogne Scenario - 10/26/2010 10:38:07 PM   
wodin


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Capt Cliff...hope you enjoy and make some nice new scenarios etc for us all....

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RE: Road to Bastogne Scenario - 10/27/2010 1:18:33 PM   
Capt Cliff


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quote:

ORIGINAL: simovitch

Only one of the multiple of engineer units assigned to construct (or prime/unprime) a crossing needs to actually have the bridge. Granted it's not explicitly clear in the manual.

The engineers that enter as reinforcements enter right at the start of the game at the bridge locations with a variable strength. That way there is a slight variation in the time it takes to construct the bridge with every new game... sometimes sooner sometimes later.


I am not too sure what am I suppose to do with that other engineer unit? The one without bridge building capability. Just leave it sit adjacent to the other unit? How can I get it to assist the prime building unit? I am confused.


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RE: Road to Bastogne Scenario - 10/27/2010 1:21:26 PM   
Capt Cliff


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quote:

ORIGINAL: wodin

Capt Cliff...hope you enjoy and make some nice new scenarios etc for us all....


I have studied the Bulge Operation extensivily and have some nice 1:1,000,000 maps of the St. Vith area. It would be nice if there was a place on the Matrix forum to upload and down load player built scenario's.


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RE: Road to Bastogne Scenario - 10/27/2010 1:29:12 PM   
James Sterrett

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Capt Cliff


quote:

ORIGINAL: simovitch

Only one of the multiple of engineer units assigned to construct (or prime/unprime) a crossing needs to actually have the bridge. Granted it's not explicitly clear in the manual.

The engineers that enter as reinforcements enter right at the start of the game at the bridge locations with a variable strength. That way there is a slight variation in the time it takes to construct the bridge with every new game... sometimes sooner sometimes later.


I am not too sure what am I suppose to do with that other engineer unit? The one without bridge building capability. Just leave it sit adjacent to the other unit? How can I get it to assist the prime building unit? I am confused.




Select both engineer units -- so they are both highlighted at the same time -- and give both of them the bridging order. CTRL-clicking on them will do this for you. The non-bridge-engineer engineers should add labor to the efforts of the bridge engineers. I don't think you see a clear indication of this other than a more rapid construction.

Don't give the order to each one separately. Actually, that general advice in this system; it will kick you in the teeth for micromanaging.

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RE: Road to Bastogne Scenario - 10/27/2010 1:44:55 PM   
Capt Cliff


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quote:

ORIGINAL: James Sterrett


quote:

ORIGINAL: Capt Cliff


quote:

ORIGINAL: simovitch

Only one of the multiple of engineer units assigned to construct (or prime/unprime) a crossing needs to actually have the bridge. Granted it's not explicitly clear in the manual.

The engineers that enter as reinforcements enter right at the start of the game at the bridge locations with a variable strength. That way there is a slight variation in the time it takes to construct the bridge with every new game... sometimes sooner sometimes later.


I am not too sure what am I suppose to do with that other engineer unit? The one without bridge building capability. Just leave it sit adjacent to the other unit? How can I get it to assist the prime building unit? I am confused.




Select both engineer units -- so they are both highlighted at the same time -- and give both of them the bridging order. CTRL-clicking on them will do this for you. The non-bridge-engineer engineers should add labor to the efforts of the bridge engineers. I don't think you see a clear indication of this other than a more rapid construction.

Don't give the order to each one separately. Actually, that general advice in this system; it will kick you in the teeth for micromanaging.



Thanks James I'll give it a try.


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RE: Road to Bastogne Scenario - 10/27/2010 3:08:08 PM   
simovitch


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Yes, like James said - holding CTRL down allows you to group more units together - then give them a construct bridge order.

The other way to select multiple units is to 'rope' them together by holding down left-click and moving the cursor. Sometimes hard to get the units you want unless you filter out the other unit types.

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RE: Road to Bastogne Scenario - 10/27/2010 6:46:36 PM   
Capt Cliff


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quote:

ORIGINAL: simovitch

Yes, like James said - holding CTRL down allows you to group more units together - then give them a construct bridge order.

The other way to select multiple units is to 'rope' them together by holding down left-click and moving the cursor. Sometimes hard to get the units you want unless you filter out the other unit types.



I'll give it a shot. Is there a hot key for bridge building? If I rope them I might not have access to the command buttons. I know A for attack works, but B for bridge?

Any reason thsoe engineer units enter as reinforcements?

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RE: Road to Bastogne Scenario - 10/27/2010 8:55:58 PM   
Floyd

 

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Handbook, page 188, key "V" - Construct Bridge

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RE: Road to Bastogne Scenario - 10/27/2010 9:19:05 PM   
Chief Rudiger

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Capt Cliff


quote:

ORIGINAL: wodin

Capt Cliff...hope you enjoy and make some nice new scenarios etc for us all....


I have studied the Bulge Operation extensivily and have some nice 1:1,000,000 maps of the St. Vith area. It would be nice if there was a place on the Matrix forum to upload and down load player built scenario's.



Look in the "Mods and Scenarios" sub forum

http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tt.asp?forumid=818

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RE: Road to Bastogne Scenario - 10/31/2010 12:18:40 AM   
Capt Cliff


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I got the bridges to be built using both engineers. They were done quicker than historical, 3:00 pm vs. 8:00 pm.

Oh, I might have found and error in the scenario. A Coy of the 1st Battalion 110th is not set up on the map??? It should be set up at Heinerscheid, per Cole's map. Was there a reason?? I added Coy A to the scenario and it work out very well. Perhap historically it reatreated north into the 112th sector, but ... I'll check Cole to see.

< Message edited by Capt Cliff -- 10/31/2010 12:34:34 AM >


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RE: Road to Bastogne Scenario - 10/31/2010 11:12:32 PM   
simovitch


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Capt Cliff

A Coy of the 1st Battalion 110th is not set up on the map??? It should be set up at Heinerscheid, per Cole's map. Was there a reason??


A Coy was left out during scenario development because Heinerscheid is so close to the map edge and was really out of the German zone of attack. Also, the US player would be tempted to use them ahistorically against the German AI.

Company A dissolved by the afternoon of the 16th and no real effect on the 1st day events So I thought it best to just leave them out.

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RE: Road to Bastogne Scenario - 11/1/2010 3:52:44 PM   
Capt Cliff


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quote:

ORIGINAL: simovitch


quote:

ORIGINAL: Capt Cliff

A Coy of the 1st Battalion 110th is not set up on the map??? It should be set up at Heinerscheid, per Cole's map. Was there a reason??


A Coy was left out during scenario development because Heinerscheid is so close to the map edge and was really out of the German zone of attack. Also, the US player would be tempted to use them ahistorically against the German AI.

Company A dissolved by the afternoon of the 16th and no real effect on the 1st day events So I thought it best to just leave them out.


I also read in either Time for Trumpets or Bitter Woods that A coy did send a strong patrol south but was repulsed. I think they were run over by 116th PD ... at least the PD's infantry. I know 116th motor and mech went south and followed 2nd PD out. So I might change my scenario to a platoon size unit, the books said it was a strong patrol.


< Message edited by Capt Cliff -- 11/1/2010 3:56:52 PM >


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