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censorship of games - 10/3/2010 4:00:25 AM   
bairdlander2


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Electronic Arts has given in to protests and pulled the ability to play as Taliban fighters from its upcoming Medal of Honor video game.They just lost a sale.Its censorship.

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RE: censorship of games - 10/3/2010 4:30:10 AM   
V22 Osprey


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This isn't surprising, and it's EA....this type of thing is expected. Besides I wasn't going to buy Medal of Honor [cough]Call of Duty: Bad Company 2[/cough] anyway.



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RE: censorship of games - 10/3/2010 6:12:25 AM   
ilovestrategy


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I never liked EA anyway. Can't stand those guys. 

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RE: censorship of games - 10/3/2010 7:08:52 AM   
histgamer

 

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I do like their NHL and FIFA games... they do a very good job on those two but other than that I don't buy EA games.

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RE: censorship of games - 10/3/2010 12:44:11 PM   
Hertston


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'Censorship' or not, it's the right decision IMHO. Those 'protests' relate to emotional issues far more important than being denied the ability to play a certain faction in a video game, 'freedom of expression' or not. With US, UK and other NATO soldiers still being killed and maimed by the Taliban every day including them as a named force in a video game is in extremely bad taste IMHO... what the hell would parents of dead soldiers think to see the deceased's younger brothers and their friends playing 'as' the Taliban? Did they get IEDs in the game while US troops get Claymores!!

It was crass stupidity to include them in the first place. Maybe, just maybe in a 'serious' wargame, but a shooter? No way.

< Message edited by Hertston -- 10/3/2010 12:47:47 PM >

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RE: censorship of games - 10/3/2010 1:39:38 PM   
Phatguy

 

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Playing as the taliban would be pretty much the same as playing a nazi in a shooter game in the 40's if video games existed back then....


I dont actually think the monkey suits at EA actually planned to include that option.I think they did it for publicity to shift some extra copies.....but then again, it is EA we are talking about.If they could get away with it they would..so who knows

< Message edited by apathetic lurker -- 10/3/2010 1:42:30 PM >

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RE: censorship of games - 10/3/2010 1:50:08 PM   
Yogi the Great


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On the other hand - is it possible the decsion may have had something to do with political correctness?

Hertson makes a good point though as well. I'm not sure at what time other then perhaps "war still in progress" it would be considered improper to play the "enemy". WWII, Korean War, Vietnam etc. vets and family members seem to be able to handle games where the enemy can be played. Maybe it is ok to play Hitler but not current relgious zealots who might be offended?

I'm not saying EA is correct to do this, but I'm also not sure the use of the term "censorship" correctly applies. Companies make business decisons for various reasons including long-term profitabillity and public image. They have the right to produce their product the way they want. We as consumers of course have the right not to buy it if we don't like it. I am tired in general though with general media political correctness in place of the truth and/or freedom of expression.

Ok folks, you may attack and correct me now. Just remember that might offend me!



< Message edited by Yogi the Great -- 10/3/2010 1:52:06 PM >

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RE: censorship of games - 10/3/2010 2:57:29 PM   
GaryChildress

 

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Fortunately I don't care one way or the other about Medal of Honor. If it were C&C Generals or CC: Modern Tactics I'd be crushed. I've had a lot of fun playing the GLA or Op For in those games. It gives some variety to the games.



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RE: censorship of games - 10/3/2010 3:03:02 PM   
Joe D.


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Yogi the Great

On the other hand - is it possible the decsion may have had something to do with political correctness?

Hertson makes a good point though as well. I'm not sure at what time other then perhaps "war still in progress" it would be considered improper to play the "enemy". WWII, Korean War, Vietnam etc. vets and family members seem to be able to handle games where the enemy can be played ...


Wasn't SOCOM played post 9-11, and didn't this "shooter" have Navy SEALS vs. Islamic insurgents, and weren't both sides playable?

I could be wrong abt all or some of the above, but if EA did MoH accurately, it could be used as a tactical primer for troops, something like Full Spectrum Warrior; of course, that's a two-edged sword if the OPFOR can also hone their skills as well.

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RE: censorship of games - 10/3/2010 5:05:51 PM   
Lützow


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We enjoy wargames for jumping into a commanders shoes and trying to perform better than our (historical) counterparts. For a multiplayer-title all factions have to be playable and it's always more interesting to re-enact actual conflicts than generic scenarios against 'opforces'. When this applies for turnbased strategy, why it wouldn't be valid for ego-shooters.

I don't care about Medal of Honor at all, but had - regarding the topic - to think about Combat Mission Afganistan. This game would be more intriguing, if it introduced civilians and reflected the current conflict, instead of featuring ghost towns in a long forgotten war.

One can for sure argue about if it's tasteful to play Taliban, but after all those are just videogames and nobody get harmed.


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RE: censorship of games - 10/3/2010 6:37:39 PM   
V22 Osprey


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Gary Childress

Fortunately I don't care one way or the other about Medal of Honor. If it were C&C Generals or CC: Modern Tactics I'd be crushed. I've had a lot of fun playing the GLA or Op For in those games. It gives some variety to the games.




GLA was by far the funnest and most awesome faction to play in C&C General, IMO.

Anyway, I think difference between the wargames and shooters is that in shooters you are seeing the killings up close and in vivid detail(especially with graphics nowadays) however if I were play a modern battle in WinSPMBT with Taliban vs US and played it in front of vets noone would care as the most killing you would see is a soldier "disappearing" when a US squad would take a casualty. I do agree with Herston though.

However, I can't help but wonder why EA called it the Taliban in the first place. Why not just call it OpFor like all the other modern shooters? It makes no sense, as the game is not even Historical in the first place.

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RE: censorship of games - 10/3/2010 7:07:20 PM   
parusski


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quote:

ORIGINAL: bairdlander


Electronic Arts has given in to protests and pulled the ability to play as Taliban fighters from its upcoming Medal of Honor video game.They just lost a sale.Its censorship.





Better pull out ye ole' dictionary. Censorship is easy to understand. It suppression of speech or some other form of communication that may be considered offensive, harmful, insensitive...to "The general body of the people..." by a government, governmental agency or state controlled media. Now there are a few twists on the definition, but the fact is-a software developer can do whatever the hell they like and it's non of our business-if a person disagrees with how they handled the game-don't buy the da**ed game.

Nope, not censorship.

Who cares anyway? Jeez, I don't, not sure why I posted in such a "Low level of intelligence way.." with "(my second grade.." way of thinking.

MERRY XMAS.
PPS. IT WAS FUN, BUT APPARENTLY IF A PERSON SIMPLY RESPONDS TO A POST ON A THREAD A RANDOM INDIVIDUAL IS CHOSEN AND ACCUSED OF:
"I can't believe it, no lock yet?
Shamelessly shooting for the last message.

All joking aside all you serious folks with no...uh..how do you decide who is the lucky winner and what is the prize for ...shooting for the last message. Which by the way is a phrase I don't think has crossed my mind since I was in grade school.

< Message edited by parusski -- 10/3/2010 7:14:58 PM >


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RE: censorship of games - 10/3/2010 8:11:33 PM   
sabre1


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Nice Parusski, very nice...

From your second grader, who admires the teacher.

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RE: censorship of games - 10/3/2010 8:23:27 PM   
Hertston


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lützow

I don't care about Medal of Honor at all, but had - regarding the topic - to think about Combat Mission Afganistan. This game would be more intriguing, if it introduced civilians and reflected the current conflict, instead of featuring ghost towns in a long forgotten war.



I think CM: Afghanistan was outsourced and intended primarily for the Russian market (for which it was released first); to them that war is about as 'long forgotten' as Vietnam would be to an American audience. That aside, I think the first conflict is probably the more interesting militarily anyway, and less controversial in regard of what we are talking about. It was presumably BF's wish to avoid current conflicts that resulted in the Syrian scenario for CM:SF.

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RE: censorship of games - 10/4/2010 1:56:46 AM   
Doggie


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Playing as the Taliboobs would be perfectly acceptable as long as the snot faced commies actually die when their character gets killed.

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RE: censorship of games - 10/4/2010 5:16:50 AM   
KG Erwin


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Before this thread gets locked, one must remember that many of us like to play as the "bad guys" in wargames on occasion. However, in EA's case, they made the correct decision, as this is a current conflict in which some of our relatives may be involved. Some of you may not understand the moral issues involved, but if you don't, then there is no point in trying to explain it to you.





< Message edited by KG Erwin -- 10/4/2010 5:19:13 AM >

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RE: censorship of games - 10/4/2010 5:37:07 AM   
billyjj

 

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This is all a hype to promote a game that no one cares about... don't be fooled this a form of marketing 

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RE: censorship of games - 10/4/2010 6:27:28 AM   
Obsolete


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A lot of one sidedness going on here.  Taliban are people too. They also fight for what they believe in. It may not agree with the ideologies of the majority in this thread, and that's part of the problem in the first place. May I remind you all that were it not for the U.S. government, Al Qaeda would not exist today. Where do you think they got the training and money from?

Trying to be fair, why should anyone then want to ever play a game where you are the Americans? After all they have also done their atrocities, and still do so.


< Message edited by Obsolete -- 10/4/2010 6:46:04 AM >


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RE: censorship of games - 10/4/2010 6:57:13 AM   
JudgeDredd


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Maybe it was a publicity stunt?

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RE: censorship of games - 10/4/2010 8:43:47 AM   
Hertston


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Obsolete
A lot of one sidedness going on here. Taliban are people too. They also fight for what they believe in. It may not agree with the ideologies of the majority in this thread, and that's part of the problem in the first place. May I remind you all that were it not for the U.S. government, Al Qaeda would not exist today. Where do you think they got the training and money from?

Trying to be fair, why should anyone then want to ever play a game where you are the Americans? After all they have also done their atrocities, and still do so.


You are missing the point. Nobody is assessing the history, morals, motives, atrocities (or otherwise) of the Taliban - that would indeed be a 'political' thread. The only relevant point is that they are participating in an ongoing conflict, and are perceived as the enemy by the families of a great many people likely to buy the game (far more, I would venture to suggest, than the potential 'Talifan' market!), many of whom may have lost loved ones in the conflict. Exactly the same would be true were the war being fought against the Russians, Chinese, Venezuela, Luxembourg or anybody else you care to think of.


quote:

ORIGINAL: JudgeDredd

Maybe it was a publicity stunt?


Possible, but I doubt it. The game was always going to be a massive seller anyway and virtually everybody likely to buy it knew about it. The only publicity seems to have been bad, and the game may not now be appearing in a lot of Christmas stockings wheer it might have been without all the fuss.

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RE: censorship of games - 10/4/2010 11:48:27 AM   
nicwb

 

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quote:

Maybe it was a publicity stunt?


Probably not completely, JudgeDredd -don't forget the last Call Of Duty game had the controversial part of playing as the Russian terrorist in the attack on civilians at the airport. The scene actually fitted into the overall plot of the game. I have the game and I aslo played the scenario - mostly for curiosity. After that I just skipped it.

But I'm not sure I can completely agree with you Hertston - yes its in bad taste but a game is essentially just another form of media and no-one talks of editing graphic portions books or movies on Afghanistan.

Also when you talk about it being an ongoing conflict does that mean its OK only once the conflict is over ?

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RE: censorship of games - 10/4/2010 12:59:38 PM   
Sarge


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Obsolete

A lot of one sidedness going on here. Taliban are people too. They also fight for what they believe in. It may not agree with the ideologies of the majority in this thread, and that's part of the problem in the first place. May I remind you all that were it not for the U.S. government, Al Qaeda would not exist today. Where do you think they got the training and money from?

Trying to be fair, why should anyone then want to ever play a game where you are the Americans? After all they have also done their atrocities, and still do so.




The poor Taliban .......





< Message edited by Sarge -- 10/4/2010 1:08:54 PM >


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RE: censorship of games - 10/4/2010 1:02:04 PM   
Hertston


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quote:

ORIGINAL: nicwb

But I'm not sure I can completely agree with you Hertston - yes its in bad taste but a game is essentially just another form of media and no-one talks of editing graphic portions books or movies on Afghanistan.


I think their are two differences between books and movies (and I'm struggling to think of any 'Afghanistan' movies anyway) and games. Firstly, there is the participatory element, with the player taking the role as it were of a Taliban fighter shooting Americans that is present neither in books nor movies. The second is that, certainly as far as movies go, their message is generally anti-war these days, even when particular acts or events of heroism are the subject material. The movie equivalent of a video game shooter might be some John Wayne-esque film of the fifties or sixties (The Green Berets, anyone?) and even by then there were many more thoughtful war movies being made.

As to being 'edited', the only thing involved here is a name not anything 'graphic'.

quote:

Also when you talk about it being an ongoing conflict does that mean its OK only once the conflict is over?


Pretty much, I think, yes. There's probably a time delay too, although it would be impossible to quantify.. had video games been around forty years ago I think it would have been long past 1973/75 before we saw a Vietnam 'shooter'.

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RE: censorship of games - 10/4/2010 2:12:31 PM   
Yogi the Great


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Well, I guess you could see where this thread was going to go. Let's change the mood and talk about monikers that don't make sense.

Why do I have "the Great" added to Yogi. I'd like to say that it is because of my great wisdom and keen sense of the obvious, but actually when I tried to use just Yogi they said it was already taken. I added "the Great" and they took it.

I was thinking though, througout history there have been foolish misguided folks and no country can claim that they have not had their fair share. They have always been with us and probably always will be. My point is that they certainly aren't obsolete.

Posted just for fun, no ill will intended. Honest.

< Message edited by Yogi the Great -- 10/4/2010 2:17:27 PM >

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RE: censorship of games - 10/4/2010 2:56:32 PM   
V22 Osprey


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sarge

quote:

ORIGINAL: Obsolete

A lot of one sidedness going on here. Taliban are people too. They also fight for what they believe in. It may not agree with the ideologies of the majority in this thread, and that's part of the problem in the first place. May I remind you all that were it not for the U.S. government, Al Qaeda would not exist today. Where do you think they got the training and money from?

Trying to be fair, why should anyone then want to ever play a game where you are the Americans? After all they have also done their atrocities, and still do so.




The poor Taliban .......






Yea, poor America...a place where there is now nationwide prejudice against Middle Eastern/Islamic People just because of few extremists like the one in this photo. Really sad considering I go to school with plenty of Islamic people who are some of the nicest people I know, and it sickens me that people treat these kind people like crap over something has nothing to do with them.

< Message edited by V22 Osprey -- 10/4/2010 2:59:39 PM >


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RE: censorship of games - 10/4/2010 3:00:09 PM   
Bison36

 

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This thread just needs to be locked. 

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RE: censorship of games - 10/4/2010 3:22:51 PM   
Yogi the Great


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Bison36

This thread just needs to be locked. 


I think you are correct. Posts usually just get worse as emotions begin to heighten. Rarely do you see it de-escalate. As mentioned, from the very first post you could see where this one was going to go.

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RE: censorship of games - 10/4/2010 5:09:03 PM   
Doggie


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quote:

May I remind you all that were it not for the U.S. government, Al Qaeda would not exist today. Where do you think they got the training and money from?

Trying to be fair, why should anyone then want to ever play a game where you are the Americans? After all they have also done their atrocities, and still do so.



May I remind you that if it were not for the U.S. govetrnment, YOU wouldn't exist today. Snot nosed commies like yourself would be smuggling turnips out of a collective farm in your rectum instead of slandering the people who made it possible for you to be obnoxious, soul less trolls.

The only atrocity Americans are engaged in is protecting traitors and quislings like you from your revolutionary heroes who would gut you like a trout for your stupidity and cowardice. It's a shame so many decent people have to sacrifice so much to protect people who are not worth the effort.

< Message edited by Doggie -- 10/4/2010 5:24:04 PM >


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RE: censorship of games - 10/4/2010 5:29:23 PM   
Obsolete


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quote:

The poor Taliban .....


If we were talking about bad taste, that picture certainly was. Are you now inviting me to post those of numerous dead civilians at American hands? How about all those torture pics taken so you can remind yourself of how NICE your democratic government treats people outside the media.

I know you always like to demonize the other side and all, but there are always 2 sides to every story. And before any patriotic lunatic tells me I'm a terrorist again, let me remind you I'm not in agreement with any extremist middle-east ideologies. On the other hand I'm certainly not pro-zionist, christian, or any other form either.




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RE: censorship of games - 10/4/2010 5:34:51 PM   
David Heath


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Come on guys do we really need to go down this road again. Look everyone end this talk now.



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