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RE: AAR HSG Urrah - 10/7/2010 8:36:27 PM   
Mad Russian


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Here is the entire company's fire and maneuver plan.

Good Hunting.

MR




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_____________________________

The most expensive thing in the world is free time.

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Panzer Command Ostfront Development Team.
Flashpoint Campaigns: Red Storm Development Team.

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Post #: 121
RE: AAR HSG Urrah - 10/7/2010 8:42:20 PM   
Mad Russian


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The fighting is getting heavy and we are taking heavy losses. Sgt Schmidt has been killed. We have lost our leader for the platoon. There will be another one take over as commander but there is a delay.

Not sure we can afford a delay out there. We'll soon see.

Good Hunting.

MR




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_____________________________

The most expensive thing in the world is free time.

Founder of HSG scenario design group for Combat Mission.
Panzer Command Ostfront Development Team.
Flashpoint Campaigns: Red Storm Development Team.

(in reply to Mad Russian)
Post #: 122
RE: AAR HSG Urrah - 10/7/2010 8:44:31 PM   
Mad Russian


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Here is the view across the battlefield.

Good Hunting.

MR




Attachment (1)

_____________________________

The most expensive thing in the world is free time.

Founder of HSG scenario design group for Combat Mission.
Panzer Command Ostfront Development Team.
Flashpoint Campaigns: Red Storm Development Team.

(in reply to Mad Russian)
Post #: 123
RE: AAR HSG Urrah - 10/7/2010 8:46:09 PM   
Mad Russian


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Taking screen shots in the game is very easy. Simply hit F8 and it takes a screen shot for you. The one I just posted for Reaction Phase of Turn 23 was number 172 I took to do this AAR.

Good Hunting.

MR


_____________________________

The most expensive thing in the world is free time.

Founder of HSG scenario design group for Combat Mission.
Panzer Command Ostfront Development Team.
Flashpoint Campaigns: Red Storm Development Team.

(in reply to Mad Russian)
Post #: 124
RE: AAR HSG Urrah - 10/9/2010 5:14:50 AM   
Mad Russian


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The Soviet Victory Gauge is moving very close the top. Either we need to break a Soviet unit and get inside the village to turn some of these flags at least yellow or we will lose this battle.

Good Hunting.

MR




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_____________________________

The most expensive thing in the world is free time.

Founder of HSG scenario design group for Combat Mission.
Panzer Command Ostfront Development Team.
Flashpoint Campaigns: Red Storm Development Team.

(in reply to Mad Russian)
Post #: 125
RE: AAR HSG Urrah - 10/9/2010 5:16:43 AM   
Mad Russian


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The smoke around our left-hand squad is protecting them from fire from the outside. Allowing them to go toe to toe with the Russians in the house.

Good Hunting.

MR




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_____________________________

The most expensive thing in the world is free time.

Founder of HSG scenario design group for Combat Mission.
Panzer Command Ostfront Development Team.
Flashpoint Campaigns: Red Storm Development Team.

(in reply to Mad Russian)
Post #: 126
RE: AAR HSG Urrah - 10/9/2010 5:18:14 AM   
Mad Russian


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The fact that our Victory Level is going down and the Soviet gauge keeps going up is not good. This fight is all but over.

I just don't need to lose any more men.

Good Hunting.

MR




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_____________________________

The most expensive thing in the world is free time.

Founder of HSG scenario design group for Combat Mission.
Panzer Command Ostfront Development Team.
Flashpoint Campaigns: Red Storm Development Team.

(in reply to Mad Russian)
Post #: 127
RE: AAR HSG Urrah - 10/9/2010 5:20:47 AM   
Mad Russian


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The game ended. Here is a view of the battlefield.

Good Hunting.

MR




Attachment (1)

_____________________________

The most expensive thing in the world is free time.

Founder of HSG scenario design group for Combat Mission.
Panzer Command Ostfront Development Team.
Flashpoint Campaigns: Red Storm Development Team.

(in reply to Mad Russian)
Post #: 128
RE: AAR HSG Urrah - 10/9/2010 5:21:30 AM   
Mad Russian


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And another view.

Good Hunting.

MR




Attachment (1)

_____________________________

The most expensive thing in the world is free time.

Founder of HSG scenario design group for Combat Mission.
Panzer Command Ostfront Development Team.
Flashpoint Campaigns: Red Storm Development Team.

(in reply to Mad Russian)
Post #: 129
RE: AAR HSG Urrah - 10/9/2010 5:26:23 AM   
Mad Russian


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Here is the end of game rating.

Just what I was trying to avoid. A Legendary Loss! Seems a bit of a harsh result with a 41-59% loss. I did lose 4 squads and that's heavy losses for an infantry company of only 9 squads.

Oh well, it's back to the infantry for me.

This scenario playtest was interesting. The scenario lasted 24/80 second turns, or 32 minutes. That's a good time. The action wasn't the world's most fluid but it was different and I thought interesting with the challenges it presented.



I made the following changes.

1) I reduced the map size by almost half. Down from 2km on a side (4 sq.km) to 1.5km per side (2.25 sq.km) and greatly increased the tree coverage on the map.

2) I added 3 German snipers to use as scouts.

3) I added a 2 tube 81mm mortar section with only 40% ammo load out.

4) I changed all the buildings on the map but 2 to a light structure.

5) Changes zfar from 750 down to 550. This should shorten the LOS distance that units can engage at. That will give the Germans an advantage because they can get closer before being seen. This is after all a dawn attack at 0400.

Thanks for going along with me, on my first assault of a Russian village, as solely a German infantry commander. It was different.

Good Hunting.

MR




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< Message edited by Mad Russian -- 10/9/2010 5:04:48 PM >


_____________________________

The most expensive thing in the world is free time.

Founder of HSG scenario design group for Combat Mission.
Panzer Command Ostfront Development Team.
Flashpoint Campaigns: Red Storm Development Team.

(in reply to Mad Russian)
Post #: 130
RE: AAR HSG Urrah - 10/9/2010 7:25:49 AM   
rickier65

 

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Thanks for the AAR! it was interesting. I'm looking forward to trying it out.

Rick

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Post #: 131
RE: AAR HSG Urrah - 10/10/2010 12:03:17 PM   
RockinHarry


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Mad Russian

Here is the end of game rating.

Just what I was trying to avoid. A Legendary Loss! Seems a bit of a harsh result with a 41-59% loss. I did lose 4 squads and that's heavy losses for an infantry company of only 9 squads.

Oh well, it's back to the infantry for me.

This scenario playtest was interesting. The scenario lasted 24/80 second turns, or 32 minutes. That's a good time. The action wasn't the world's most fluid but it was different and I thought interesting with the challenges it presented.



I made the following changes.

1) I reduced the map size by almost half. Down from 2km on a side (4 sq.km) to 1.5km per side (2.25 sq.km) and greatly increased the tree coverage on the map.

2) I added 3 German snipers to use as scouts.

3) I added a 2 tube 81mm mortar section with only 40% ammo load out.

4) I changed all the buildings on the map but 2 to a light structure.

5) Changes zfar from 750 down to 550. This should shorten the LOS distance that units can engage at. That will give the Germans an advantage because they can get closer before being seen. This is after all a dawn attack at 0400.

Thanks for going along with me, on my first assault of a Russian village, as solely a German infantry commander. It was different.

Good Hunting.

MR





I´d say the outcome is not a surprise actually. Agree that the map is too big for a slightly reinforced company battle. You even could actually shrink down to 500x500m.

As is, the battle appeared to be more of a "reccon in force". Adding the mortars is right to go, when speaking of more of an assault like battle. There´s not enough LOS to have HMGs going with the forward troops, which would be nessecary.

Instead of adding snipers as "reccon troops", I´d rather add more game turns and real reccon half (or full) squads, in case the games OOB have any. 1-2 for a company size force would be realistic.

Realistically, light building types are more of a death trap, if they got cover attributes right in the game. Just some figure:

Effective cover vs. rifle and machine gun fire (minimum):

soft wood: 0.9m
hard wood: 0.75m
brick stone walls: 0.65m
soil: 1.1 to 1.4m
sandbags: 0.7m

Probably most of the russian hoods and wooden buildings do not fall into these categories and they most likely get sieved easily, not taking wooden splinters into account.

So as russian, I´d like rather be in foxholes and have HMGs further back, with appropiate fields of fire and frontally protected with ordinary infantry.

Just some loud thinking

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Post #: 132
RE: AAR HSG Urrah - 10/10/2010 2:15:58 PM   
Ron

 

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Reading this and your Clash of the Titans AAR, I am struck again by the generous LOS/LOF through forested areas. To me it seems quite counter-intuitive graphically as well as realistically. I don't have Kharkov installed anymore so can you explain this in more detail? Thanks



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Post #: 133
RE: AAR HSG Urrah - 10/10/2010 4:24:00 PM   
Mad Russian


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quote:

ORIGINAL: RockinHarry

I´d say the outcome is not a surprise actually. Agree that the map is too big for a slightly reinforced company battle. You even could actually shrink down to 500x500m.


Well, I'm not as good at designing scenarios as you are.

I just put the main parts together and play them out to see where it all goes the first time. In this instance I brought you guys along with me.

quote:


As is, the battle appeared to be more of a "reccon in force". Adding the mortars is right to go, when speaking of more of an assault like battle. There´s not enough LOS to have HMGs going with the forward troops, which would be nessecary.


For the heavy MG stands I would agree but they could have gone to just the bipod with belt feed. That would have made them more mobile and still given the fire support of the HMG. They would be even more influential to the outcome of the battle with all that firepower delivered at close range.

quote:


Instead of adding snipers as "reccon troops", I´d rather add more game turns and real reccon half (or full) squads, in case the games OOB have any. 1-2 for a company size force would be realistic.


At the moment there are no reconn company elements in PCO. I'm sure that within a couple of months of release PCO will have all kinds of new units. A lot of them infantry types being done.

quote:


Realistically, light building types are more of a death trap, if they got cover attributes right in the game. Just some figure:

Effective cover vs. rifle and machine gun fire (minimum):

soft wood: 0.9m
hard wood: 0.75m
brick stone walls: 0.65m
soil: 1.1 to 1.4m
sandbags: 0.7m

Probably most of the russian hoods and wooden buildings do not fall into these categories and they most likely get sieved easily, not taking wooden splinters into account.


Probably not but I'll work with what the game gives me to balance the scenario at the moment.

quote:


So as russian, I´d like rather be in foxholes and have HMGs further back, with appropiate fields of fire and frontally protected with ordinary infantry.

Just some loud thinking


My Russian setup was for a garrison unit that got caught. You know the ones. The ones that were inside the buildings eating breakfast at dawn.

There is a lot that can be done with this. I'll keep on playtesting until I get it where I want it. Hopefully, this campaign will make the release. If not I'll release it later.

Good Hunting.

MR


_____________________________

The most expensive thing in the world is free time.

Founder of HSG scenario design group for Combat Mission.
Panzer Command Ostfront Development Team.
Flashpoint Campaigns: Red Storm Development Team.

(in reply to RockinHarry)
Post #: 134
RE: AAR HSG Urrah - 10/10/2010 10:25:28 PM   
heinrich55

 

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MR,
Thanks for posting. It was great fun seeing the battle unfold. I enjoyed seeing the process of playtesting that essentially this was. It also gives us a good feel for how infantry type operations can unfold in PCO. Very nicely done.

Heinrich55

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Post #: 135
RE: AAR HSG Urrah - 10/11/2010 9:53:21 AM   
RockinHarry


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Looking forward to the next one as well! ...and as said, just some loud thinking here, maybe a leftover desease from TPG times.

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Post #: 136
RE: AAR HSG Urrah - 10/11/2010 12:59:20 PM   
Mad Russian


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quote:

ORIGINAL: RockinHarry

Looking forward to the next one as well! ...and as said, just some loud thinking here, maybe a leftover desease from TPG times.


You go ahead, where my scenarios are concerned, and do loud thinking anytime you want. I can use all the help I can get. Hopefully everybody involved with PCO will catch that same TPG (The Proving Grounds) disease. It's the one to have!

Good Hunting.

MR

< Message edited by Mad Russian -- 10/11/2010 1:00:46 PM >


_____________________________

The most expensive thing in the world is free time.

Founder of HSG scenario design group for Combat Mission.
Panzer Command Ostfront Development Team.
Flashpoint Campaigns: Red Storm Development Team.

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Post #: 137
RE: AAR HSG Urrah - 10/11/2010 5:01:44 PM   
RocketMan


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Mad Russian,

In looking over the screenshot of the final view of the battlefield it looks to me like the Russians have as many troops as the Germans do by counting the unit coins. So it is not really a surprise the Germans couldn't make much headway in the scenario. It is hard to perform a successful attack without superior numbers.

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Post #: 138
RE: AAR HSG Urrah - 10/11/2010 5:48:45 PM   
Mad Russian


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Well, you know......in Russia, numbers are numbers........there are modifiers involved in that. The Russians are mostly green, while the Germans are Veteran or Elite.

I tried to isolate the defense and attack only a part of it at any one time.

We tried several things. Every time I play PCO I learn a bit more. Still trying to get the AI to work the way I want it to.

Good Hunting.

MR


_____________________________

The most expensive thing in the world is free time.

Founder of HSG scenario design group for Combat Mission.
Panzer Command Ostfront Development Team.
Flashpoint Campaigns: Red Storm Development Team.

(in reply to RocketMan)
Post #: 139
RE: AAR HSG Urrah - 10/11/2010 6:33:09 PM   
RocketMan


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I was going to suggest changing the experience levels of the units, but of course you already did that. Can you make some of the Russian squads damaged at the start of the battle to simulate the fact that they were caught unprepared? I doubt you can freeze some Russian squads for a few turns, which would simulate being caught unprepared, but could you add some of the units in the back part of the village as reinforcements? Also, you might want to start the Germans on the other side of the village, and much closer to the village at start. This would allow them to use the drop off to hide themselves from the Russians in most of the village during their approach.

Just some suggestions.

(in reply to Mad Russian)
Post #: 140
RE: AAR HSG Urrah - 10/12/2010 3:13:46 AM   
Mad Russian


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Gerry

Hello:

This scenario does not show dense forest terrain - looks like the area is very thinly populated with trees? I think even regular wooded areas would have trees closer together. Are there other maps with dense woods/forest?

Thanks,

Gerry



Take a look at this thread to see how I changed the map for this campaign.

http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=2590453&mpage=3

Good Hunting.

MR


_____________________________

The most expensive thing in the world is free time.

Founder of HSG scenario design group for Combat Mission.
Panzer Command Ostfront Development Team.
Flashpoint Campaigns: Red Storm Development Team.

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Post #: 141
RE: AAR HSG Urrah - 10/18/2010 2:08:48 AM   
Gerry4321

 

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Any chance of another AAR? Maybe a combined-arms scenario this time? Any period would be fine but maybe a later Eastern Front scenario would show us something different than Kharkov.

Thanks, Gerry

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Post #: 142
RE: AAR HSG Urrah - 10/18/2010 2:21:29 AM   
Mad Russian


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Different than Kharkov?

What do you mean?

Good Hunting.

MR


_____________________________

The most expensive thing in the world is free time.

Founder of HSG scenario design group for Combat Mission.
Panzer Command Ostfront Development Team.
Flashpoint Campaigns: Red Storm Development Team.

(in reply to Gerry4321)
Post #: 143
RE: AAR HSG Urrah - 10/18/2010 2:40:33 AM   
Gerry4321

 

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Sorry I wasn't clearer. Many people have PCK so know the Kharkov maps, equipment, etc. So it would be nice to see something like Kursk/Stalingrad/ approaching Berlin instead. Again, I would be happy with any AAR. Fill the time until Ostfront is ready. I am guessing it is getting closer to a Jan 1. deadline than a November one.
Gerry

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Post #: 144
RE: AAR HSG Urrah - 10/18/2010 5:32:09 AM   
Mad Russian


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Well, nothing I've done AAR's on have been from the Kharkov maps. But I don't really want to do AAR's on all of the scenarios I may put in the game either. I'd like you guys to see some of them for yourselves without seeing me play them first....

Good Hunting.

MR


< Message edited by Mad Russian -- 10/18/2010 2:58:40 PM >


_____________________________

The most expensive thing in the world is free time.

Founder of HSG scenario design group for Combat Mission.
Panzer Command Ostfront Development Team.
Flashpoint Campaigns: Red Storm Development Team.

(in reply to Gerry4321)
Post #: 145
RE: AAR HSG Urrah - 10/18/2010 6:13:39 AM   
junk2drive


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MR, do a random battle on the Niemirow map.

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RE: AAR HSG Urrah - 10/18/2010 6:20:48 AM   
Mobius


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Or on Kolomak1 or Kolomak2 as no scenarios are on those maps.

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Post #: 147
RE: AAR HSG Urrah - 10/18/2010 2:58:36 PM   
Mad Russian


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quote:

ORIGINAL: junk2drive

MR, do a random battle on the Niemirow map.


You're the Random Battle King J2D you do one for them.

Or better yet with them.

Good Hunting.

MR

_____________________________

The most expensive thing in the world is free time.

Founder of HSG scenario design group for Combat Mission.
Panzer Command Ostfront Development Team.
Flashpoint Campaigns: Red Storm Development Team.

(in reply to junk2drive)
Post #: 148
RE: AAR HSG Urrah - 10/18/2010 7:26:47 PM   
RockinHarry


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Since we clubbed the forest topic almost to death, I´d like to see something in urban terrain this time! I´ve seen somme nice SS with railyards, big buildings ect. Year doesn´t matter to me, maybe 1941 or 1944.

I guess something like river crossing isn´t implemented yet?

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Post #: 149
RE: AAR HSG Urrah - 10/18/2010 7:53:55 PM   
rickier65

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: RockinHarry

I guess something like river crossing isn´t implemented yet?


what do you mean? no rafts, but bridges of course.

thanks
rick

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Post #: 150
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