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Question about Allow Independents to become Empires - 9/3/2010 7:15:03 PM   
WoodMan


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From: Ol' Blighty
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Hey guys!

Every game I've played I have the allow independents to become Empires ticked, but I have never seen independents become an Empires!

What is required for them to actually become an Empire?

Do they only become Empires if there are less than 20 Empires in the game, or can they become the 21st Empire? I know civil war can lead to more than 20 Empires, but I wonder if it stops Independents from becoming Empires.

Final question If I start a game with only 10 or so Empires each as a different race, will there still be independents of the other unused races in the game, or does no Atuuk Empire = no Atuuk independents.

Please write back quick, starting my new game in 30 mins or so

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RE: Question about Allow Independents to become Empires - 9/3/2010 8:16:55 PM   
Shark7


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From: The Big Nowhere
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quote:

ORIGINAL: WoodMan

Hey guys!

Every game I've played I have the allow independents to become Empires ticked, but I have never seen independents become an Empires!

What is required for them to actually become an Empire?

Do they only become Empires if there are less than 20 Empires in the game, or can they become the 21st Empire? I know civil war can lead to more than 20 Empires, but I wonder if it stops Independents from becoming Empires.

Final question If I start a game with only 10 or so Empires each as a different race, will there still be independents of the other unused races in the game, or does no Atuuk Empire = no Atuuk independents.

Please write back quick, starting my new game in 30 mins or so



It basically depends on a few things:

1. Did you set independants to rare, normal or plentiful? This not only dictates how many there are, but the initial size of their populations. With plentidful, you will find planets with billions on them already, with rare, 300-400 million at most, with the average being less than 100 million.

2. Planet quality. The better the planet, the better of course!

3. Development. If they start on a developing planet instead of at zero, they can grow faster...possibly fast enough to go full empire before one of the other empires can conquer/colonize them.

The biggest factor overall is the planet's population, so #1 (where did you set the independant alien life slider) will have the greatest effect on whether they have a chance to go full empire or not.

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RE: Question about Allow Independents to become Empires - 9/3/2010 8:51:43 PM   
WoodMan


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Yeah I set the independent slider and the overall galaxy age to as low as possible and add the Empires manually so it really only affects the independents.  What puzzles me is even on these settings I see independent worlds with higher population than my homeworld, yet still they do not go into Empire. 

I have my Empire and most other Empires on starting with Harsh homeworlds, expansion is very slow, and sometimes I find independent worlds about 30 years into the game with 7000 million or more population.  In my last game there was 2 Boskara independent worlds around the 7000 - 8000 million population in the same system, neither became a new Empire.  On Harsh homesystems you start with 4000 million population, so these independent worlds are twice as populated as the Empires started out


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RE: Question about Allow Independents to become Empires - 9/4/2010 3:42:34 AM   
tornnight

 

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The issue is that independents have a growth rate of 12-14% no matter what their population is.

That bug causes them to grow quickly.

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RE: Question about Allow Independents to become Empires - 9/4/2010 10:37:35 AM   
WoodMan


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I notice the extra fast growth of independents too, but I actually like this bug   I assume it gives them a better chance of becoming Empires, but I don't know, as I said before I've never seen it happen.

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RE: Question about Allow Independents to become Empires - 9/4/2010 3:57:47 PM   
Shark7


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quote:

ORIGINAL: WoodMan

I notice the extra fast growth of independents too, but I actually like this bug   I assume it gives them a better chance of becoming Empires, but I don't know, as I said before I've never seen it happen.


It does help, but the initial population when the game is generated plays a big role...

I've also noted that if I place a race on a planet in the editor, and don't edit the number of them down to below 100 million they have a near certainty of going independent empire even before you can find them.

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RE: Question about Allow Independents to become Empires - 9/4/2010 4:07:39 PM   
WoodMan


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Shark can you confirm if there are already 20 Empires in the game when this happens?

Even though I have the Independents on the lowest settings, I still find high population independent planets a lot because I play with Harsh starting systems and lowest quality planets, so the expansion period is much, much longer, I find my population with these settings if I'm lucky goes higher than the normal settings, because it takes so much longer to find the independents (because half the time you can only afford one or two explorers max), and by the time I do find them they have population near or even larger than my homeworld due to the high population growth of independents.

So, if these 100 million are going into Empire before you find them, surely those Boskara planets I found with over 7000 million should have gone into an Empire.  It's not just those, in the same game just a few systems away there was a Dhayut independent world with about 4000 million population too!

This was about 30 years into the game, at what time do you see independents going into new Empires?


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Post #: 7
RE: Question about Allow Independents to become Empires - 9/4/2010 4:36:40 PM   
Shark7


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Yes, I usually play with 20 empires. I can also attest that if you go with less than 20 empires, the uptick to independent to empire will happen easily.

I have seen independents become new empires even before I could explore the system that was only 1 grid sector away (IE basically next door). I had one game running 20 empires that had 3 separate independents within the first 30 minutes of the game, 2 in the same system, and all within 4-5 hops of my own empire. Even the Teekan, who are pretty stupid, have done it.

The key is that I play with the following settings:

Independents: Plentiful
Planet Quality: High
Galaxy: Starting
Monsters: None
Pirates: Many
starting system: excellent

Is this what makes the difference? Perhaps.

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RE: Question about Allow Independents to become Empires - 9/4/2010 4:48:43 PM   
Baleur


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Pirates Many, Woahhhhh

You brave brave man/woman

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RE: Question about Allow Independents to become Empires - 9/4/2010 4:51:02 PM   
Shark7


Posts: 7875
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From: The Big Nowhere
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Baleur

Pirates Many, Woahhhhh

You brave brave man/woman


Brave man.

Yes, the game is very interesting with many pirates, I usually find myself having to buy them off during the first parts of the game, cause they wreak havoc on the merchant fleet if you don't.

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Post #: 10
RE: Question about Allow Independents to become Empires - 9/4/2010 5:14:42 PM   
WoodMan


Posts: 1345
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From: Ol' Blighty
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Okay, I have a feeling the difference might be the development rather than the population, perhaps even though the planets I find have high populations they might have low development, I will have to check this next time I play.  You have very different settings to me Shark 

Independents: Minimum
Planet Quality: Very Low
Galaxy: Starting
Monsters: Few
Pirates: Few
Starting System: Harsh



I think we can conclude its not a population problem thats causing them not to turn into an Empire, I will check the development level on the planets, that could be doing it.  But I used to play with all settings set to the middle and never saw a independent become an Empire then either


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RE: Question about Allow Independents to become Empires - 9/5/2010 3:59:13 AM   
Shark7


Posts: 7875
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From: The Big Nowhere
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quote:

ORIGINAL: WoodMan

Okay, I have a feeling the difference might be the development rather than the population, perhaps even though the planets I find have high populations they might have low development, I will have to check this next time I play.  You have very different settings to me Shark 

Independents: Minimum
Planet Quality: Very Low
Galaxy: Starting
Monsters: Few
Pirates: Few
Starting System: Harsh



I think we can conclude its not a population problem thats causing them not to turn into an Empire, I will check the development level on the planets, that could be doing it.  But I used to play with all settings set to the middle and never saw a independent become an Empire then either



There is one other thing that I thought of. Do you use randomly generated empires or do you set up your game manually? I set mine up manually, and typically will provide names for the AI empires, so its very easy for me to tell when one has upgraded from independent (not that naming the AI empires manually affects anything, just pointing out how I know the independents are leveling up).

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Post #: 12
RE: Question about Allow Independents to become Empires - 9/5/2010 12:18:15 PM   
WoodMan


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From: Ol' Blighty
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I add manually, one of each race, I know the default flags of the races now (I use the default Human flag, so they always use their own default flag as I have not stolen a colour or symbol).  However, in my most recent game, I have set the Empires up manually using a weird dice system I devised to slightly randomise things, giving some better homeworlds, some better starting tech and some better starting size.  The majority are still like me though, starting, basic, harsh.  But because of this there are now some races who got left out and others who got more than one Empire (like 2 other Humans in addition to me) so I won't be able to tell this time

So it doesn't give you a message like when a new Empire arrives from a civil war? 

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Post #: 13
RE: Question about Allow Independents to become Empires - 9/5/2010 3:41:40 PM   
Shark7


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From: The Big Nowhere
Status: offline
Only if its your own empire splitting. Basically you won't know if there is an independent/civil war empire formed until you make contact.

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Post #: 14
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