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Repaired abandoned ships problem - 8/3/2010 5:09:44 PM   
Chris21wen

 

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From: Cottesmore, Rutland
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I'm using the latest patch v1.06 but I noticed the problem with an earlier version.

I was happily repairing a large number of abandoned ships in a system that I control (1 planet with space port and defense base) plus a fleet with 8 ships. I sent the fleet away to threaten another empire when suddenly the constructorships doing the repair had no mission. On inspection they had repaired the ships there were working on BUT the ships repaired did not belong to me. They belonged to an empire that had a military ship at the location.

I reloaded to a point before I moved the fleet away but that did no good.

I then sent the fleet to the area where the abandoned ships are and now the ships do belong to me when they are repaired.

Is this by design or a bug?
Post #: 1
RE: Repaired abandoned ships problem - 8/4/2010 12:00:00 AM   
Tophat1815

 

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I'd look at it more but if it was not by design I like the result.You had an unarmed constructor basically taken as a prize with all the damaged ships.Then you sent armed ships back and you regained your lost ships.people screamed for a tougher AI looks like its arrived.

(in reply to Chris21wen)
Post #: 2
RE: Repaired abandoned ships problem - 8/4/2010 1:01:23 AM   
WoodMan


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Military ships claim wrecks faster than Constructors (I think this is something to do with a Sensor Array component but not sure).  The wreck can not be claimed until it is repaired, so as soon as the ship is repaired it is claimed.  If you have no military ships in the area and the opponent does, they will get the ship, as they claim it faster than your Constructor.

Similarly, if you see an AI Constructor repairing a wreck without a military escort, you can move your military ships next to it and when it finishes repairing the wreck, you will claim it for your Empire.

(in reply to Tophat1815)
Post #: 3
RE: Repaired abandoned ships problem - 8/4/2010 5:54:38 AM   
Equendil

 

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I gifted a bunch of capital ships and cruisers that way to the AI who eventually used them to take my capital.

(in reply to WoodMan)
Post #: 4
RE: Repaired abandoned ships problem - 8/4/2010 6:08:27 AM   
adecoy95


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i have had this happen alot in my last game, its really annoying. i am 100% certain its a bug.

in the meantime, however, you can use the editor to give yourself the ships after they "steal" them

(in reply to Equendil)
Post #: 5
RE: Repaired abandoned ships problem - 8/4/2010 1:25:45 PM   
Florestan

 

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This has already been debated a lot before. Simply add detector arrays to your constructor ship, or guard the ship debris field with military vessels to avoid this.

(in reply to adecoy95)
Post #: 6
RE: Repaired abandoned ships problem - 8/4/2010 2:32:08 PM   
Tophat1815

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: adecoy95

i have had this happen alot in my last game, its really annoying. i am 100% certain its a bug.

in the meantime, however, you can use the editor to give yourself the ships after they "steal" them


If you don't protect your constructor or the salvaged ships vs AI warships how is this a bug? Simple rule send an escort or escorts with the constructor. How many people have suggested this in the thread? Sheesh,a bug.

(in reply to adecoy95)
Post #: 7
RE: Repaired abandoned ships problem - 8/4/2010 8:22:05 PM   
LeonTheNeon

 

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In my view, it is a bug in that the constructor crew while in the process of repairing the ship almost certainly has a crew on board the ship under repair. The moment the ship becomes active the ship's crew would claim control of it for your empire. If the opposing Empire wishes to claim it they should have to fire on the constructor and send thier own constuctor to finish repairs.

This is particularly a problem because the AI doesn't guard its constructors when repairing debris (generally speaking, I saw one ship drop by for a moment once out of dozens of debris fields), so it is trivial to simply park an escort in the debris field and have the AI do all the work for you.

So if the ship's being captured isn't a bug, then the AI not protecting them is a bug.

< Message edited by LeonTheNeon -- 8/4/2010 8:32:30 PM >

(in reply to Tophat1815)
Post #: 8
RE: Repaired abandoned ships problem - 8/5/2010 5:22:44 AM   
Tophat1815

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: LeonTheNeon

In my view, it is a bug in that the constructor crew while in the process of repairing the ship almost certainly has a crew on board the ship under repair. The moment the ship becomes active the ship's crew would claim control of it for your empire. If the opposing Empire wishes to claim it they should have to fire on the constructor and send thier own constuctor to finish repairs.

This is particularly a problem because the AI doesn't guard its constructors when repairing debris (generally speaking, I saw one ship drop by for a moment once out of dozens of debris fields), so it is trivial to simply park an escort in the debris field and have the AI do all the work for you.

So if the ship's being captured isn't a bug, then the AI not protecting them is a bug.




How does an unarmed commercial ship protect a newly repaired ship,even newly repaired warship,safe from a real warship? Send an armed escort..........old adage: Proper planning prevents poor performance.

(in reply to LeonTheNeon)
Post #: 9
RE: Repaired abandoned ships problem - 8/5/2010 5:36:47 AM   
adecoy95


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Tophat1812

quote:

ORIGINAL: LeonTheNeon

In my view, it is a bug in that the constructor crew while in the process of repairing the ship almost certainly has a crew on board the ship under repair. The moment the ship becomes active the ship's crew would claim control of it for your empire. If the opposing Empire wishes to claim it they should have to fire on the constructor and send thier own constuctor to finish repairs.

This is particularly a problem because the AI doesn't guard its constructors when repairing debris (generally speaking, I saw one ship drop by for a moment once out of dozens of debris fields), so it is trivial to simply park an escort in the debris field and have the AI do all the work for you.

So if the ship's being captured isn't a bug, then the AI not protecting them is a bug.




How does an unarmed commercial ship protect a newly repaired ship,even newly repaired warship,safe from a real warship? Send an armed escort..........old adage: Proper planning prevents poor performance.


your making it more complicated than it really is... the constructor repairs a ship and gives it to your enemy. thats a bug

(in reply to Tophat1815)
Post #: 10
RE: Repaired abandoned ships problem - 8/5/2010 10:57:37 AM   
Equendil

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Tophat1812 If you don't protect your constructor or the salvaged ships vs AI warships how is this a bug?
Unless he was at war with that AI, that's entirely irrelevant.


(in reply to Tophat1815)
Post #: 11
RE: Repaired abandoned ships problem - 8/5/2010 1:06:00 PM   
WoodMan


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quote:

your making it more complicated than it really is... the constructor repairs a ship and gives it to your enemy. thats a bug
To be honest in my opinion the Constructor that completes the repair should claim the ship yes.

quote:

If you don't protect your constructor or the salvaged ships vs AI warships how is this a bug? Simple rule send an escort or escorts with the constructor. How many people have suggested this in the thread? Sheesh,a bug.













Yes you should have to send an escort, to stop the enemy blowing up your Constructor and stealing the wreck with their own Constructor, but not because your constructor crew who are aboard the wreck ready to return it home for fuelling suddenly decide to switch sides   

(in reply to Equendil)
Post #: 12
RE: Repaired abandoned ships problem - 8/5/2010 5:56:09 PM   
Tophat1815

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: adecoy95

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tophat1812

quote:

ORIGINAL: LeonTheNeon

In my view, it is a bug in that the constructor crew while in the process of repairing the ship almost certainly has a crew on board the ship under repair. The moment the ship becomes active the ship's crew would claim control of it for your empire. If the opposing Empire wishes to claim it they should have to fire on the constructor and send thier own constuctor to finish repairs.

This is particularly a problem because the AI doesn't guard its constructors when repairing debris (generally speaking, I saw one ship drop by for a moment once out of dozens of debris fields), so it is trivial to simply park an escort in the debris field and have the AI do all the work for you.

So if the ship's being captured isn't a bug, then the AI not protecting them is a bug.




How does an unarmed commercial ship protect a newly repaired ship,even newly repaired warship,safe from a real warship? Send an armed escort..........old adage: Proper planning prevents poor performance.


your making it more complicated than it really is... the constructor repairs a ship and gives it to your enemy. thats a bug


In the situation specified another empires warship shows up and claims the repaired ship from the unarmed constructor.If your own warship is present it precludes that happening.

(in reply to adecoy95)
Post #: 13
RE: Repaired abandoned ships problem - 8/5/2010 5:58:04 PM   
dpazuk


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From: Ottawa, Canada
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From my perspective, I see this as being by design, rather then a bug. Only the devs know for sure and perhaps they can shed a little light on this for us?

I had the same thing happen to me. Once I had a fleet in the area guarding my constructor, all ships repaired by my constructor immediately became mine.

Now, here is something really interesting to which I do not know if it was of my own doing or not. I found another large alien capital ship, which looked similar to the World Destroyer, and I began repairing it. I had a small fleet parked by it for claiming.

The AI sent in a repair ship to work on it, as well as a few of their own warships.

Now, here is the interesting part. It appears that, the AI knowing I was going to claim a potentially potent weapon, decided to take their own warship and blow up the wreck my constructor was working on!

Now, again, it only appears that this occurred, at least to me. It maybe that a constructor working on an alien wreck of unknown design has a small chance of destroying the wreck. I would like to think the AI was that smart and not a result of my own repair engineers messing up.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Chris H

I'm using the latest patch v1.06 but I noticed the problem with an earlier version.

I was happily repairing a large number of abandoned ships in a system that I control (1 planet with space port and defense base) plus a fleet with 8 ships. I sent the fleet away to threaten another empire when suddenly the constructorships doing the repair had no mission. On inspection they had repaired the ships there were working on BUT the ships repaired did not belong to me. They belonged to an empire that had a military ship at the location.

I reloaded to a point before I moved the fleet away but that did no good.

I then sent the fleet to the area where the abandoned ships are and now the ships do belong to me when they are repaired.

Is this by design or a bug?



< Message edited by dpazuk -- 8/5/2010 5:59:26 PM >


_____________________________

Blah Blah Blah

(in reply to Chris21wen)
Post #: 14
RE: Repaired abandoned ships problem - 8/5/2010 6:03:59 PM   
Tophat1815

 

Posts: 1824
Joined: 1/16/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Chris H

I'm using the latest patch v1.06 but I noticed the problem with an earlier version.

I was happily repairing a large number of abandoned ships in a system that I control (1 planet with space port and defense base) plus a fleet with 8 ships. I sent the fleet away to threaten another empire when suddenly the constructorships doing the repair had no mission. On inspection they had repaired the ships there were working on BUT the ships repaired did not belong to me. They belonged to an empire that had a military ship at the location.

I reloaded to a point before I moved the fleet away but that did no good.

I then sent the fleet to the area where the abandoned ships are and now the ships do belong to me when they are repaired.

Is this by design or a bug?



Here is the situation we were discussing when the thread started. I had a similar situation happen to me and it was an ai empire I had trade and map exchange with. Between this the random fatal Giant Kaltor encounter and pirates I always send escorts.And i always post a guard over discovered abandoned ships to prevent interlopers.It seems to work hunky dori for me.

(in reply to Chris21wen)
Post #: 15
RE: Repaired abandoned ships problem - 8/5/2010 8:05:48 PM   
Chris21wen

 

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From: Cottesmore, Rutland
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Personnally I think it's a bug. As soon as a constructorship starts working to repair a ship that ship should then become part of your empire, not after it's repaired. As some one said you would have a crew on board.

(in reply to Tophat1815)
Post #: 16
RE: Repaired abandoned ships problem - 8/5/2010 8:08:05 PM   
WoodMan


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From: Ol' Blighty
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quote:

Personnally I think it's a bug. As soon as a constructorship starts working to repair a ship that ship should then become part of your empire, not after it's repaired. As some one said you would have a crew on board.


Not as soon as they start work, as soon as they finish work, otherwise you could use one Constructor to repair slightly each ship in a debris field without finishing any of them to claim the field.  Other than that, I agree

Edit: However, if the AI also knows how to do the above tactic, it wouldn't really matter if it worked that way.

< Message edited by WoodMan -- 8/5/2010 8:15:37 PM >

(in reply to Chris21wen)
Post #: 17
RE: Repaired abandoned ships problem - 8/5/2010 8:45:45 PM   
LeonTheNeon

 

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Who says the constructor ship is unarmed? I have weapons on my constructor ships so I don't have to send escorts.

Again, even if you argue that the warship sitting nearby somehow claims the ship against the poor defenseless constructor ship, even though the warship that is repaired is obviously manned at completion and ready to fight, and even if you argue that it is simple to overcome by simply having your own escort nearby your left with two problems:

1 - I've had escorts in system and STILL lost the ship because the other guy saw it first

2 - The AI generally speaking does not defend its constructor ships while defending debris fields

3 - It doesn't make a lick of sense when dealing with allies. Would a close personal friend claim a ship I'm repairing because his warship saw it first?

No matter how you slice it there is a bug with abandoned ships under repair.

To me the fact that the ship is war-ready upon repair completion implies that a combat capable crew is onboard. Assuming no other ships nearby, just a constructor and the ship to be repaired, the crew must have come from the constructor. Therefore, in the instance, where another ship is nearby the crew still would have come from the constuctor, which says to me, the ship is secured by the empire repairing it as it is being repaired.

To me the fix should be that while under repair a ship is owned by the empire repairing it, if the constructor stops repairing it before repairs are completed it toggles back to be abandonded. Then if you really really want the ship, you have to open fire on the constructor and drive him off. As a side effect this also removes the bug that you can destroy the abandoned ship being repaired without diplomatic repercussion.

(in reply to WoodMan)
Post #: 18
RE: Repaired abandoned ships problem - 8/5/2010 11:03:33 PM   
dpazuk


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From: Ottawa, Canada
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quote:

ORIGINAL: As a side effect this also removes the bug that you can destroy the abandoned ship being repaired without diplomatic repercussion.


I agree with your reasoning on this and you make valid points.

It also helps to answer the question as to what had happened me during my current game, which I covered in my post.



_____________________________

Blah Blah Blah

(in reply to LeonTheNeon)
Post #: 19
RE: Repaired abandoned ships problem - 8/6/2010 1:44:21 AM   
Pipewrench


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quote:

ORIGINAL: WoodMan

quote:

Personnally I think it's a bug. As soon as a constructorship starts working to repair a ship that ship should then become part of your empire, not after it's repaired. As some one said you would have a crew on board.


Not as soon as they start work, as soon as they finish work, otherwise you could use one Constructor to repair slightly each ship in a debris field without finishing any of them to claim the field.  Other than that, I agree

Edit: However, if the AI also knows how to do the above tactic, it wouldn't really matter if it worked that way.


+1,

and as a huge abstraction into reasoning....

with a constructor ship losing military escort and not having weapons strong enough to defend itself against another empires intrusion, it seems to me the engineers would retreat back to the constructor and ceed the ship. Even to throw out the logic as to how in the heck can a engineer run an advanced design immediatly upon repairing the ship.

3 mechanics who fix spitfires find a f-18 in the mud and get to work pumping up the tires and fixing the windshield wipers. after a short nap they read the manual and decide with the skill they learned to take it for a spin and see what mach 1 feels like.

still I love the game and what people are posting makes one think....


(in reply to WoodMan)
Post #: 20
RE: Repaired abandoned ships problem - 8/6/2010 1:54:36 AM   
Pipewrench


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quote:

ORIGINAL: dpazuk



Now, again, it only appears that this occurred, at least to me. It maybe that a constructor working on an alien wreck of unknown design has a small chance of destroying the wreck. I would like to think the AI was that smart and not a result of my own repair engineers messing up.



that would be very interesting if your repair has the chance to fail and odds increase with the tech advancement of the ship compared to your empire. It sort of makes me wonder about all those finds early in the game that explode? sorry to go off topic.


(in reply to dpazuk)
Post #: 21
RE: Repaired abandoned ships problem - 8/6/2010 2:31:57 AM   
adecoy95


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or how about a 0.1% chance each time you repair a ship that all other derelict ships in the entire map will come online and eradicate all enemies of a now long dead empire?

(in reply to Pipewrench)
Post #: 22
RE: Repaired abandoned ships problem - 8/6/2010 3:01:53 AM   
Pipewrench


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.1% sounds like a remake of a horror movie.

evil dead

(in reply to adecoy95)
Post #: 23
RE: Repaired abandoned ships problem - 8/6/2010 3:01:56 PM   
WoodMan


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From: Ol' Blighty
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quote:

3 mechanics who fix spitfires find a f-18 in the mud and get to work pumping up the tires and fixing the windshield wipers. after a short nap they read the manual and decide with the skill they learned to take it for a spin and see what mach 1 feels like.


lol, that puts things in perspective. 

I can imagine the Atuuk on board a super advanced ship they just repaired:

"Me push big red 'go' button now sir"

"Yes, push to go, we go home with new prize now"

Click... BOOM

(in reply to Pipewrench)
Post #: 24
RE: Repaired abandoned ships problem - 8/6/2010 10:07:19 PM   
Tophat1815

 

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Alright,alright you all win..............since playing DW seems to also be a choice of personal preference how about a selection button to enable or disable this option? Personally I thought it worked well in the game as is,then somebody put guns on a constructor and started the: "But my constructor is armed argument" and my lack of armament rationale went right out the airlock!

Alright,alright,alright..............."Its a Bug!" 

(in reply to WoodMan)
Post #: 25
RE: Repaired abandoned ships problem - 8/6/2010 11:40:16 PM   
adecoy95


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on an unrelated note, while on of my constructers were repairing.. eh, that big derelict, i shall call it to avoid spoilers, civilian freighters would come with more supplies for the ship so it did not have to leave, i loved that small touch

(in reply to Tophat1815)
Post #: 26
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