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Questions - Return to St Vith - 7/17/2010 3:48:55 PM   
rickloginname

 

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New to game and new to system. Really like it though.

Playing Americans in Return to St Vith. Confronted with 2 questions that are likely sue to ignorance of relevant rules.

a) What is the point of moving Brigade or Divisional HQs closer tot he action. Why not just keep them at the edge of the board? What is the trade off here?

b) Same question with Supply Depos. Is there a reason to move them closer to the action?
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RE: Questions - Return to St Vith - 7/17/2010 6:10:16 PM   
simovitch


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Yes - both resupply and orders-delay times are improved with proximity to HQ's and bases.

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RE: Questions - Return to St Vith - 7/17/2010 9:35:37 PM   
loyalcitizen


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Only way to move a Supply Base closer to the action is to take direct command of it... so it becomes unattached to the units it is supplying.
Does that stop the supplies from getting to those units or no? Is it lessened? Or can I leave them unattached with absolutely no penalty?

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RE: Questions - Return to St Vith - 7/17/2010 11:22:43 PM   
FredSanford3

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: loyalcitizen

Only way to move a Supply Base closer to the action is to take direct command of it... so it becomes unattached to the units it is supplying.
Does that stop the supplies from getting to those units or no? Is it lessened? Or can I leave them unattached with absolutely no penalty?

No, detaching it doesn't change the supply relationship. I have [trust issues] with leaving the bases attached to their parent HQ's, so at game start I'll generally select all the bases (hit the '4' key twice, then select them all), and give them an in-situ defend order. I usually don't have to bother with them again, unless I need to move a base individually to either get near the units they supply, or to move them out of trouble.

Keep your Regt/Bde bases closer to your units than the Div/Corp bases. If the Div or Corp base is closer to the units than the Regt base, the supply request will bypass the regt base and draw from the higher base. This will both overload the higher base with excessive #'s of units, and it will leave the regt bases under utilized.

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RE: Questions - Return to St Vith - 7/17/2010 11:26:06 PM   
simovitch


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Another way is when you move the Regimental HQ, uncheck the 'basing' toggle and your base (and attached artillery) will follow the HQ.

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RE: Questions - Return to St Vith - 7/18/2010 1:38:23 AM   
FredSanford3

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: simovitch

Another way is when you move the Regimental HQ, uncheck the 'basing' toggle and your base (and attached artillery) will follow the HQ.


And attached artillery? I did not know that. That's useful, because I will often use the Div HQ's as ARKO's.

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RE: Questions - Return to St Vith - 7/19/2010 12:29:34 PM   
PirateJock


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Hi simovitch - does basing affect attached artillery? Game Manual page 63 only talks about base units ...

quote:

Basing = when checked, any subordinate base units are free to determine their own depot locations. otherwise, the basing code will be ignored and you will have to manually look after them. Unchecking this is useful when you want your whole force to move or exit. The default is on.


Wouldn't the arty move irrespective of the 'basing' choice as it's attached to the HQ?

PS - Random placement of word 'otherwise' in text from manual

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RE: Questions - Return to St Vith - 7/19/2010 1:23:49 PM   
PeterD

 

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I tried this in a game yesterday. When using an HQ, if you uncheck 'Basing', both bases and artillery will move right up to the objective of their HQ. It also appears to work well even if there's only e.g. one line unit + one arty.

Unfortunately, it doesn't work as expected for a group of (only) arty units. It looks like it is working at first, but only the "leader" of the group reaches the objective, the others appear to behave as if basing is checked even if it isn't. Devs, I think there's a bug here, but in any event, it's a bit laborious moving groups of arty at the moment; it's not always possible to have an HQ to lead them around.

Interestingly, a (non in-situ) rest order (no 'basing' option available) will move arty to the objective, but not bases, which might be useful to know in some particular circumstance.

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RE: Questions - Return to St Vith - 7/20/2010 4:46:54 PM   
PirateJock


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Hi PeterD

quote:

Unfortunately, it doesn't work as expected for a group of (only) arty units. It looks like it is working at first, but only the "leader" of the group reaches the objective, the others appear to behave as if basing is checked even if it isn't. Devs, I think there's a bug here, but in any event, it's a bit laborious moving groups of arty at the moment; it's not always possible to have an HQ to lead them around.


Not sure this would be classed as a bug as your force of grouped arty units is acting like any other force and from Game Manual p72 ...

quote:

If the force you Move includes long-range artillery units, they may not move to the same destination as the rest of the force; instead, they may move to a Firebase location from which they can support the rest of the force with bombardments.


So I doubt there'd be code specific for grouped arty setting up within a certain radius ... but I could be wrong

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RE: Questions - Return to St Vith - 7/20/2010 10:14:18 PM   
Deathtreader


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Hi all,

That "grouped arty within a certain radius" you mentioned might make a nifty new feature!

Rob.

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RE: Questions - Return to St Vith - 7/21/2010 8:10:40 AM   
PeterD

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: PirateJock

Hi PeterD

quote:

Unfortunately, it doesn't work as expected for a group of (only) arty units. It looks like it is working at first, but only the "leader" of the group reaches the objective, the others appear to behave as if basing is checked even if it isn't. Devs, I think there's a bug here, but in any event, it's a bit laborious moving groups of arty at the moment; it's not always possible to have an HQ to lead them around.


Not sure this would be classed as a bug as your force of grouped arty units is acting like any other force and from Game Manual p72 ...

quote:

If the force you Move includes long-range artillery units, they may not move to the same destination as the rest of the force; instead, they may move to a Firebase location from which they can support the rest of the force with bombardments.


So I doubt there'd be code specific for grouped arty setting up within a certain radius ... but I could be wrong


I only think it's a bug in as much as unchecking the "Basing" option doesn't override the default behaviour and move them all to the objective. I don't believe I'm asking for special behaviour; I'm wondering why the behaviour is already special for arty-only groups.

Since inclusion of a single non-arty unit "fixes" the behaviour, we are led to the conclusion that there is code specific to grouped arty.

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RE: Questions - Return to St Vith - 7/21/2010 12:44:51 PM   
PirateJock


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I'm not sure that 'basing' affects artillery units; I thought it's only relevant to Base units. Does anybody have a definitive answer on that?

Also don't know if this thread helps, especially MarkShot's reply @ Post 3.

Reckon I'll have a play tonight with groups and move to see what happens.

< Message edited by PirateJock -- 7/21/2010 12:49:28 PM >

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RE: Questions - Return to St Vith - 7/21/2010 12:53:26 PM   
PeterD

 

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Basing does affect artillery normally; please re-read my post #8 in this thread.

However, I would certainly like to hear the results of your independent testing!

Definitely try these combinations: HQ + arty, line unit + arty, arty + arty.
(and obviously try each combo with/without "Basing" checked).

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Post #: 13
RE: Questions - Return to St Vith - 7/21/2010 11:53:27 PM   
PirateJock


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So ran some testing using Hofen Ho-Down ...

Objective (Obj) = Track east of Konzen intersected by 7th vertical gridline (Ref 7000,112)
Order = Move to Obj

HQ + Arty: I.752 HQ + I.405 + I.326
Basing checked = Attached arty did not move to Obj - appeared both units moved to locations so Obj approx 1 km outside minimum range
Basing unchecked = Attached arty moved to Obj

Line unit + Arty: 1.752 + I.405 + I.326
Basing checked = 1.752 to Obj with arty begin to move away from Obj - possible set up outside minimum range - but cancelled once 1.752 at Obj
Basing unchecked = 1.752 to Obj with I.405 & I.326 initial route planned away from Obj but changed (shorter) once 1.752 at Obj and both units moved to Obj

Grouped Arty: I.326 (HQ) + I.405 + II.405
Basing checked = I.326 moved to Obj while I.405 & II.405 set up at distance from Obj
Basing unchecked = I.326 moved to Obj while I.405 & II.405 set up at distance from Obj

Then with Grouped Arty units above tried non-in situ Rest order to Obj = all units move to Obj though appears to be an initial delay compared to timings with Move order

So basing does affect artillery movement. Unchecking the option does bring all units to one location - but only if a non-arty unit is in force (HQ or Line). However using the non-in situ rest order can be used as a workaround to move grouped arty to one location.

Just need to think through implications of using Rest rather than Move order ... and it's too late to do that now.

If only I'd listened to you from the start PeterD ... would you like to put this in the Tech Support section?

< Message edited by PirateJock -- 7/22/2010 12:30:47 PM >

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RE: Questions - Return to St Vith - 7/24/2010 7:08:39 AM   
PeterD

 

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Thankyou to whoever moved this to Tech Support.

Summary for the devs: we think there is a bug with the "Basing" option, in that unchecking it doesn't appear to have the desired effect if all units are artillery.

@PirateJock: better that you checked it yourself than to take my word!

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RE: Questions - Return to St Vith - 7/24/2010 9:49:22 AM   
Arjuna


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Understood. I'll get onto this once I get the first patch out the door to Matrix. Hopefully this will be tomorrow.

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