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Simul Diplomacy

 
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Simul Diplomacy - 7/13/2010 3:09:57 PM   
Yearworld


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Joined: 9/21/2009
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I'm playing a PBEM game using 1.08.02 and I think I might possibly know how to solve one of the simul diplomacy problems people have talked about. The problem comes at the Spanish Diplomacy phase correct? Here is how you get past it to continue the game.

1. Every other player goes whenever they want in simul diplomacy. No need to wait your turn.
2. Spain must go LAST. Spanish player is the only one who must wait all others may go whenever.
3. When it is Spain's turn, load all other Dip files into the commin folder.
4. BEFORE you do your Spanish Dip phase click on the "load turn" button. This loads all the other dip phases.
5. After you clicked the load turn button, do your Spanish dip phase as normal and then hit end turn.
6. Now it should be the Spanish Reinforcement Turn.

If Spain is an AI but GB is playing then GB should go last and do as I have said above.

Yearworld
Post #: 1
RE: Simul Diplomacy - 7/14/2010 4:50:31 AM   
NeverMan

 

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If it's simul why does anyone have ot "go last"?

I mentioned this in another thread but why not just let the computer do his turn with that last human player and generate the file? Then, no one "has" to go last... everyone goes simul, including comp. I'm sure there are also 1000 other ways to fix this that can still maintain the "simul" effect.

I don't think the "simul" effect should be broken to fix this simple problem.

(in reply to Yearworld)
Post #: 2
RE: Simul Diplomacy - 7/14/2010 11:40:22 AM   
Yearworld


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I agree things might have to be fixed to avoid confusion but Spain would have to go "last" anyway as it is Spain's reinforcement turn next. Therefore, it will not lose any time for him to wait. Same is true if GB is the last human player and etc. The problem is the game must load all dip files before the first reinforcement turn is played and the first player for reinforcement must load them. Otherwise it starts on Spain Dip turn and Spain would have to do his turn then what would happen? Would it go to reinforcement even though other players have not played their dip phase or what? I think that is the problem. If this is the only problem with Simul dip then in my opinion it isn't worth spending lots of time trying to fix it while other things could be fixed in the game. Worse case scenario is that Spain must "play" his Dip phase again once everyone is done with their Dip phases. Not a huge deal IMO.


Yearworld

(in reply to NeverMan)
Post #: 3
RE: Simul Diplomacy - 7/14/2010 2:02:01 PM   
Marshall Ellis


Posts: 5630
Joined: 10/2/2001
From: Dallas
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Hey guys:

The AI is not collecting turns at this point. That would be the way to go but we had not looked at this so it reached out and bit us! That however, is not my main concern right now...I'm having all sorts of data problems in simul exe. Data elements are being overwritten i.e. in Eco when a nation cedes a minor then the data is xfered but the eco phase is overwriting! Sorry but IT's a "BAD WORD" mess right now guys! This may cause me to revert to IGO-UGO for now. Not sure but I'm getting very little done here!



_____________________________

Thank you

Marshall Ellis
Outflank Strategy War Games



(in reply to Yearworld)
Post #: 4
RE: Simul Diplomacy - 7/15/2010 3:01:40 AM   
Dancing Bear

 

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Hi Marshall
I can see this happening in the eco turn, where things like ceding are visible to other players in the turn sequence after you, but is this also the case in the diplomacy phase? Let's deal strictly with the diplomacy phase first. The diplomacy phase already had a hidden data base that was carried from player to player, with the final results only revealed/executed during the first reinforcement turn. This then should over write the databases on the other players computers. I can't see how this would not work without some overwriting, and the over writing in this case is a good thing.

In theory, all we have done, is at the end of the land phase, allowed each individual player to do their diplomacy as if they were the first player in the diplomacy phase (If player =GB, then GB's computer thinks it is first, if player=France, then France's computer thinks it is first, etc.). However, when the file goes out, it saves itself in the appropriate position (2nd, third, etc.)**

It seems to be that no one else needs load any diplomacy phase file from any other player except the first player in the reinforcement phase (typically Spain). Since who is going first in the reinforcement phase is known in advance of the turn (from the skipping data base that comes from the player who went last in the land phase), it seems easy to be able to determine who should be ultimately be loading the diplomacy phases (i.e. who is going first in reinforcement). This player (typically Spain) loads the other players diplomacy phases as provided in the correct sequence, skips/plays the AI turn as required, and plays their own diplomacy in the correct sequence (even if this is not the last nation to go). Then at the start of reinforcement, sends out the resolved/executed diplomacy. Even if Spain is an AI and GB is the first human player, this should work, as GB would send out a Spanish AI reinforcement turn with the resolved reinforcement.

The resolved/executed diplomacy is loaded by the other players, and should over write their diplomacy, as I imagine it already does. There should be no need for any player except the last to load any other players diplomacy.

Obviously, it is not working this way, but is this how it is meant to go? I can see a problem, if at where I indicated ** above, the game is over writing the previous players database during the resolution phase (typically Spain's reinforcement turn), so that by the time it gets to resolution it has wiped all the previous players databases (i.e., player 2's dip turn is wiping player 1's dip turn, and player 3's is wiping player 2's etc, as they are loaded by the Spanish player). Is this where things are going wrong? Do we need the game is only over write part of the database when it loads another players turn instead of the whole data base?

Is this only happening for AI move? If so, can we do IGO-UGO for games with less than 7 players, and sim for 7 player games (which is 99% of the games).

We might need a bit more explanation to assist you on this.

(in reply to Marshall Ellis)
Post #: 5
RE: Simul Diplomacy - 7/15/2010 3:02:10 AM   
Sorta

 

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Joined: 11/30/2009
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Hi Marshall,

I know nothing about coding but as an ex-consultant I never let lack of knowledge stop me giving advice to others.

How about taking a break from simul dip as you seem to be getting increasingly frustrated and mull over the options. Also, as you will then have spare time perhaps you may want to fix bug 697 as a form of therapy?

(in reply to Marshall Ellis)
Post #: 6
RE: Simul Diplomacy - 7/16/2010 12:53:19 PM   
Dancing Bear

 

Posts: 1003
Joined: 2/21/2008
Status: offline
Hi Marshall
where did this over write code come from? Can we assume that it is part of the IGO-UGO code? If so, is is dependent on the order in which the files are loaded? So that player 2's turn over write player 1's turn? Would having the final player loading the turns in the proper sequence solve this, so there is no way for them to load player 2's turn before player 1?
If this is just for AI turns, then shouldn't playing the AI turns in the proper sequence also solve this, i.e. AI turns are done on the computer of the player who is going first in reinforcement, but in the correct order?
I'm wondering if it is the order in which the files are loaded by the last player that is causing the problem. Once this player does their turn, and sends out the resolved dip to everyone, then their files should be over-written.

(in reply to Sorta)
Post #: 7
RE: Simul Diplomacy - 7/16/2010 2:30:32 PM   
Marshall Ellis


Posts: 5630
Joined: 10/2/2001
From: Dallas
Status: offline
Hey guys:

Sorta: This is an option! I may at least pull back in eco.

We're making some progress in our test game so hang on...



_____________________________

Thank you

Marshall Ellis
Outflank Strategy War Games



(in reply to Dancing Bear)
Post #: 8
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