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Gas Extractors, should every warship get one?

 
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Gas Extractors, should every warship get one? - 6/10/2010 1:22:48 AM   
the1sean


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If you put a "gas extractor" on a ship, can it fill up the fuel tanks anywhere it can mine the appropriate fuel source (caslon/hydrogen)?!?

It would be awesome if I could just toss one of these puppies on all my long range warships and my exploration ships. Effectively unlimited range! Has anyone tried this???

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RE: Gas Extractors, should every warship get one? - 6/10/2010 9:05:05 AM   
sbach2o

 

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No, and I am dismissing the idea out of hand.

These components are so big that they will reduce the overall effectiveness of any ship quite a bit. You'd have to put on extra propulsion to get your ships up to speed, literally.

And then there are the questions of whether these extractors work on warships at all, wether they require cargo modules to function properly and whether any ship can refuel from its cargo space or that self-refueling is restricted to certain classes. I also think that there can be only one miner per planet active, causing potential bottlenecks of ships queing to mine their fuel. (I don't know about gas clouds, though. There I've seen sometimes several mining bases per, usually involving abandoned bases or pirate bases). Finally, think about the micromanagement nightmare.

(in reply to the1sean)
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RE: Gas Extractors, should every warship get one? - 6/11/2010 3:01:58 AM   
the1sean


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quote:

ORIGINAL: sbach2o
No, and I am dismissing the idea out of hand.


Thats no fun, I am tempted to say you are a stick in the mud without one innovative bone in your body


quote:

ORIGINAL: sbach2o
These components are so big that they will reduce the overall effectiveness of any ship quite a bit. You'd have to put on extra propulsion to get your ships up to speed, literally.


Not really, the basic gas extractor is size 16, solar panels are 8, and an extra fuel tank is 6. Escorts and Frigates by default have 2 fuel tanks. I usually build my destroyers for long range engagements, so I toss in an extra fuel tank, and also a solar panel, to offset fuel usage spent holding a static position. Thats 14 points worth of components. Makes one Gas extractor look like an attractive alternative.

quote:

ORIGINAL: sbach2o
And then there are the questions of whether these extractors work on warships at all, wether they require cargo modules to function properly and whether any ship can refuel from its cargo space or that self-refueling is restricted to certain classes.


Those are two very good points, and the main reason I started this thread was to see if anyone had tried these things out. Otherwise I am going to be doing some experiments of my own with prototypes this weekend.


quote:

ORIGINAL: sbach2o
I also think that there can be only one miner per planet active, causing potential bottlenecks of ships queing to mine their fuel. (I don't know about gas clouds, though. There I've seen sometimes several mining bases per, usually involving abandoned bases or pirate bases).


Also a very good point. However, exploration ships dont have the problem of traveling in large packs. Also, I am trying out a tactic of using a single destroyer to take small enemy colonies (those annoying ones out in the middle of nowhere, but without many defenses or troops to speak of). In my current game I dont have Cruisers, yet, they would probably be more suited to the tactic. However, even a decent Destroyer with a Gas Extractor and a Troop Bay would be able to take out minor enemy colonies single handedly (provided you have already broken the enemy's main fleet with your own, and are engaging any remnants in the largest systems).


quote:

ORIGINAL: sbach2o
Finally, think about the micromanagement nightmare.


The 1.0.5 patch is supposed to improve the refueling AI for all ships, so maybe ships with extractors will grab free tanks of gas whenever they need it... one can always hope

(in reply to sbach2o)
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RE: Gas Extractors, should every warship get one? - 6/11/2010 11:36:47 AM   
sbach2o

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: the1sean

quote:

ORIGINAL: sbach2o
I also think that there can be only one miner per planet active, causing potential bottlenecks of ships queing to mine their fuel. (I don't know about gas clouds, though. There I've seen sometimes several mining bases per, usually involving abandoned bases or pirate bases).


Also a very good point. However, exploration ships dont have the problem of traveling in large packs. Also, I am trying out a tactic of using a single destroyer to take small enemy colonies (those annoying ones out in the middle of nowhere, but without many defenses or troops to speak of). In my current game I dont have Cruisers, yet, they would probably be more suited to the tactic. However, even a decent Destroyer with a Gas Extractor and a Troop Bay would be able to take out minor enemy colonies single handedly (provided you have already broken the enemy's main fleet with your own, and are engaging any remnants in the largest systems).



If my other reservations turn out true, you might experiment with Refueling Bases as combat ships. I do not know how well those are suited for combat either. The new V1.0.4 restrictions regarding cargo space are probably crippling them for this purpose, but you might try how small you can design them while letting them stay armed suitably for your intended uses.

Still, I find fuel reserves only a problem early in a game, until I have the advanced fusion reactors. For some reason I get rapidly to these every time through the scrapping of ships from the plentiful ancient battle sites and supply outposts.

< Message edited by sbach2o -- 6/11/2010 11:37:27 AM >

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RE: Gas Extractors, should every warship get one? - 6/12/2010 3:45:55 AM   
the1sean


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Good Idea with the small resupply ships, I will take that into consideration. Fuel is mainly a problem for my warfleets not due to travel, but due to powering tons of weapons fire. As my ships fire I can literally watch the fuel tanks drop. But I like lots of guns

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RE: Gas Extractors, should every warship get one? - 6/14/2010 8:57:47 AM   
sbach2o

 

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By now you have me intrigued enough to at least try it out myself.

Not that I think it really is a good idea. The ~16 units of space (plus probabaly cargo module(s), minus maybe savings on a fuel tank or two) on ships of 200 to 300 total are too much dead weight for my taste. But it would be interesting to see, if it works at all.

< Message edited by sbach2o -- 6/14/2010 8:58:17 AM >

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RE: Gas Extractors, should every warship get one? - 7/29/2010 5:36:39 AM   
Equendil

 

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Early in a new game, I wanted to make an exploration ship that could refuel on the run, so I could send it to distant corners of the galaxy, either to find other empires or reach far away event locations without running out of fuel many parsecs from home. Fitted my ship with a gas extractor and a cargo, expecting it not to work at all.

Well, I built my ship, and I was pleasantly surprised to actually be presented a new contextual icon on gas giants! What happened next however, is while my ship did mine gas, it automatically went back to port to unload its cargo once finished. Scrapped the ship and didn't think about it again.

Reading this thread, however, it occurs to me that I never checked what sort of gas I was mining, I have absolutely no idea if there even was caslon to get from that giant planet. D'oh! Will have to try again.



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RE: Gas Extractors, should every warship get one? - 8/16/2010 3:11:46 PM   
the1sean


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I tried this with a warship on the correct planet type, but it didnt seem to work... Anyone else have some results to post?

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RE: Gas Extractors, should every warship get one? - 9/15/2010 2:14:51 AM   
Darkshado

 

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Tested it on a modified constructor planned to cross the entire galaxy in order to take care of a derelict fleet some pirates told me about. I observed behavior as Equendil. That is: the ship mines the appropriate gas, but sends it in the cargo bay instead of the fuel tanks, and then heads to port to offload it.

IIRC you have to use the actual "refueling ship" class, and these need to "deploy" in order to be of any use. Their size and cost make them more akin to a mobile base than anything else.

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RE: Gas Extractors, should every warship get one? - 9/15/2010 4:57:46 AM   
torrenal

 

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Size is variable, but as slow as the things are to deploy and undeploy, they should be cheap, or well defended, and if they are to service a fleet, cheap won't do.

Agree, normal use plants their size firmly in the 'mobile base' category.
//Torrenal

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RE: Gas Extractors, should every warship get one? - 9/15/2010 8:55:43 PM   
the1sean


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yep, worthwhile experiment, but failed to achieve objectives. Thanks for the help, guys!

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RE: Gas Extractors, should every warship get one? - 9/20/2010 7:04:18 PM   
Carewolf

 

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What you need is:
Fuel sisters!
Dual sisters!
Do you need to refuel? sisters!

Two ships with gas extractors and docks. They can not extract fuel for themselves but they can extract fuel for storage and refuel by docking at each-other.

(in reply to the1sean)
Post #: 12
RE: Gas Extractors, should every warship get one? - 9/21/2010 5:59:56 AM   
the1sean


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Carewolf

What you need is:
Fuel sisters!
Dual sisters!
Do you need to refuel? sisters!

Two ships with gas extractors and docks. They can not extract fuel for themselves but they can extract fuel for storage and refuel by docking at each-other.


LOL, thats a funny work-around. I think it is kinda "gamey" though, and cheats the intent of the system. I'll stick to resupply ships for now

(in reply to Carewolf)
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RE: Gas Extractors, should every warship get one? - 9/21/2010 7:50:21 PM   
Carewolf

 

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You are right. I am not doing that either - the game is easy enough as it is; but I have recently started to add docks to the private mining ships, it makes them closer to mining bases, but I will see what happens and what AI does.

(in reply to the1sean)
Post #: 14
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