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RE: Price? - 5/27/2010 8:24:33 AM   
Sarkus

 

Posts: 42
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Erik Rutins

Guys, I understand the instinctive reaction to the price and I know it's not going to be within some gaming budgets. Nevertheless, this is what the price needs to be for this kind of wargame to be made and it's worth asking what games you are comparing it to when deciding that the price is too high. If we compare cars to wargames, this is effectively a Ferrari. It does not cut corners, it is meticulously hand-crafted and no expense was spared in terms of development time and effort to bring it to perfection. This is not a mass-market "reasonably priced car".


Erik, I think you need to be careful here. If this is the "Ferrari," then what are you saying about the more reasonably priced games you guys offer?

Let's be honest - this game is priced where it is based on how much it cost to develop and how many copies you think it will sell. What I come away with is that you don't think it will sell all that many or that what the developer wants out of it is so high that only a high retail price has a chance of getting that.

(in reply to Erik Rutins)
Post #: 121
RE: Price? - 5/27/2010 8:43:40 AM   
Nihil

 

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Joined: 4/17/2008
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Another buyer lost, I have CotA as I have several games from Matrix. I was eagerly waiting this game to come out, but I am not going to pay 65 € (75 € with taxes added) for a game, not even for this one.

It is not a question about whether I have the money or not, which I obviously have, but i dont want to enter into this pricing policy. Is this a message? of course it is, I will repeat it just in case "I am not going to pay 75 € for a game"

Some people here is wishing you good luck though they have stated they are not going to buy your game, well I wish you the worst of lucks, perhaps that way you will reconsider and make you open your eyes.

You may price a game whatever you think it deserves but in the end it is the market who fixes the prices.

(in reply to Sarkus)
Post #: 122
RE: Price? - 5/27/2010 8:49:21 AM   
Fred98


Posts: 4380
Joined: 1/5/2001
From: Wollondilly, Sydney
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quote:

ORIGINAL: bink
By not hedging currency exposure, Panther is most directly responsible for the higher US prices.



The point is that some are claiming that Matrix has made a decision to put the prices up. But it is more likely due to the FX rate.

Before digital download, if I ordered a game from the USA, the freight includes the weight of the compulsory manual. The FX rate was somewhat different then!. I complained and you all ignored me. Now you are on the other side of the ledger.


-




(in reply to bink)
Post #: 123
RE: Price? - 5/27/2010 8:56:45 AM   
Terminus


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Well, I could add to this by reminding everybody that one of the most popular games Matrix has ever published (at least in terms of forum traffic) is WitP, and that cost $80 as well. Pay the money or not, but don't whine about it.

_____________________________

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Post #: 124
RE: Price? - 5/27/2010 9:02:00 AM   
jomni


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Terminus

Well, I could add to this by reminding everybody that one of the most popular games Matrix has ever published (at least in terms of forum traffic) is WitP, and that cost $80 as well. Pay the money or not, but don't whine about it.


I'd like to think that this game may be worth $80 just like WitP. But my experience with the other titles in the series says it's not. Of course this judgement is made without experiencing the improvments in the game engine.

< Message edited by jomni -- 5/27/2010 9:03:22 AM >


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Post #: 125
RE: Price? - 5/27/2010 9:03:57 AM   
planetbrain


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There is no way that I won't buy this game asap.
Not yet able to afford it but I look forward to the time when I can.
I have every confidence that BFTB will meet my expectations of quality and for that I don't mind (too much) paying the asking price. What else are you to do when you must have something?


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Post #: 126
RE: Price? - 5/27/2010 9:22:17 AM   
TinyPirate

 

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quote:


Why should Australian developers have to pay for Wall Street excesses ??????


You're arguing that volume doesn't change and the price has to be set to cover cost and profit (revenue = volume x cost, after all).

I think this thread demonstrates volume isn't going to be great at this price point. If it was half the price, would volume stay the same? No, it would almost certainly go up. Would it double? I would argue it would more than double (especially with a bit of a marketing push), but hey, I'm crazy like that.

(in reply to Fred98)
Post #: 127
RE: Price? - 5/27/2010 9:24:01 AM   
pekbro

 

Posts: 9
Joined: 3/26/2010
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Tough situation on both sides...

Maybe remove the editor and half the scenarios, sell the game for 60 and the rest as a digital addon for 20.
Anyone can make payments, even me, and my monthly gaming budget would make most of you want to slap me very hard
across the face. 4 digits easy, fortunately, my tastes are specific and the industry cannot supply me with that much desirable content.

I for one, want the developers to succeed and will undoubtedly purchase it at some point in support of them. Like it or not this
is a niche market and I imagine its a tough go for them. Condemming them for doing what they must is not so nice I think.

Wait for a demo and/or a sale, many of you have waited this long allready.

If its really that much of a problem, organize and petition them for a compromise like the one above. Their fanbase is their
lifesblood and Im sure they know it, to ignore that would be foolish. However, expecting them to go to such lengths over mere
belly-aching is equally foolish.

Anyway, my lame 2 cents...

I simply have not purchased the game as I am still trying to digest COTA (which I suck at apparently) could take a while...
kindof like this post...


(in reply to hgilmer3)
Post #: 128
RE: Price? - 5/27/2010 9:41:29 AM   
Arjuna


Posts: 17785
Joined: 3/31/2003
From: Canberra, Australia
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Re Price

I appreciate your feedback on the price. No one ever likes paying more for a product. I also appreciate that for many cash is tight at the moment. Trust me I am in the same boat. Developing professional grade software for a niche entertainment market is not a path to wealth that I would recommend.
We contemplated this issue at length. On the one hand we would love to sell mega copies of BFTB. But we have to face the reality that this is a niche market and we will never be able to sell the volumes like AAA general market titles. Products like your First Person Shooters take dozens of man years to make, cost millions and need to sell hundreds of thousands of copies to succeed. The wargame market is unlikely to hit the tens of thousands of sales. So we have very small volumes and virtually no prospects of increasing those volumes, especially for a serious realistic simulation such as BFTB. Anyone who thinks that we are somehow going to be able to expand our sales volume significantly is deluding themselves.

We have committed about 50 man years of development on our series. That is a huge investment and given the cost of further development cannot be sustained with the current income stream. Since we cannot increase the volume of sales, significantly, we have two choices. We can increase the price or we can stop further development.

We are well aware of the potential impact of raising the price on sales volume. The laws of price elasticity affect all markets. However, niche markets in general are less affected primarily because there is limited offerings and hence limited competition and also because the customers in general appreciate that the unit price has to be higher than for a general market product because the cost of development has to be absorbed over a much smaller volume of sales.

Is this a good situation for our customers? No, it is not. Is it a good situation for us? Definitely not. But the choices for us are clear and stark. Sell at the old price and abandon further development or increase price and hope that we can stay in the commercial wargames business. Even at the higher price we may still be forced to abandon development because not enough people buy it. Yes it’s a big risk, but it’s the only option that may keep us designing for the commercial wargames market. I cannot put it any more bluntly.

Each one of you will have to make your own decision as to whether you think the price is worth it. I would like to think that when you consider the benefits you will answer yes. Please consider that there are 27 scenarios. Playing through each one once would provide over a hundred hours of entertainment. If you swap sides, you get another hundred hours. But with the way we have designed the scenarios and the use of generic objectives, you can play the same scenario many times and get a different experience. That is one of the beauties of the engine. I would estimate that on average most players will get over 400 hours of entertainment out of BFTB. Many will get thousands of hours.

By providing a full construction set, with the inclusion of all the editors needed to create any battle, we envisage considerable content being developed by the community. This should translate into a stream of third party scenarios that will further extend the life of this product and provide even more entertainment value.

Even at 400 hours the cost of entertainment for BFTB is just 20 cents per hour. Think about that.
Also let’s put it in relative terms to other games that you have purchased. Estimate the number of hours you have played them, then divide this into their purchase price and I bet there will be very few that are as cheap per hour as BFTB.

But also consider the quality of the experience you will get with BFTB. I am not aware of any other product ( commercially or for that matter within the military simulation market ) that better simulates the role of an operational commander. Certainly when it comes to artificial intelligence, BFTB is without peer. We have added so many features to the engine since COTA, features designed to enrich your experience and make it easier for you to assess, plan and order your forces. Go to the BFTB product page and read the long list of new features and enhancements and check out the New Stuff thread on the BFTB forum.

So it all boils down to value and priorities. Only you can make that call for yourself. I do believe that BFTB is very good value for money. We will be putting out a demo in about a month or so. So you can always wait and see. In the meantime check out the Game Concepts movie. The first of the tutorial movies will soon be available for public release. We will progressively release more of these over the coming weeks.

If you have any questions, please don’t hesitate to ask here on the forum.


_____________________________

Dave "Arjuna" O'Connor
www.panthergames.com

(in reply to pekbro)
Post #: 129
RE: Price? - 5/27/2010 9:58:43 AM   
loyalcitizen


Posts: 241
Joined: 2/9/2004
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Thanks Dave. Did the download and already played through the demo scenario. Good stuff already.
Glad this came out in time for my Memorial Day weekend.
I had been thinking on going to a wargaming convention in LA this weekend, but now with BftB, I will save money!

2 Nights hotel room: $220
3 Days Parking: $30
Convention Registration: $50
Gas: $25
---------
Total: $325

Thanks to you I saved $245 !

(in reply to Arjuna)
Post #: 130
RE: Price? - 5/27/2010 10:12:35 AM   
Perturabo


Posts: 2556
Joined: 11/17/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sarkus


quote:

ORIGINAL: Erik Rutins

Guys, I understand the instinctive reaction to the price and I know it's not going to be within some gaming budgets. Nevertheless, this is what the price needs to be for this kind of wargame to be made and it's worth asking what games you are comparing it to when deciding that the price is too high. If we compare cars to wargames, this is effectively a Ferrari. It does not cut corners, it is meticulously hand-crafted and no expense was spared in terms of development time and effort to bring it to perfection. This is not a mass-market "reasonably priced car".


Erik, I think you need to be careful here. If this is the "Ferrari," then what are you saying about the more reasonably priced games you guys offer?

Let's be honest - this game is priced where it is based on how much it cost to develop and how many copies you think it will sell. What I come away with is that you don't think it will sell all that many or that what the developer wants out of it is so high that only a high retail price has a chance of getting that.

quote:


Erik, I think you need to be careful here. If this is the "Ferrari," then what are you saying about the more reasonably priced games you guys offer?

Like CC re-releases with no significant new features and broken AI, for example?

_____________________________

People shouldn't ask themselves why schools get shoot up.
They should ask themselves why people who finish schools burned out due to mobbing aren't receiving high enough compensations to not seek vengeance.

(in reply to Sarkus)
Post #: 131
RE: Price? - 5/27/2010 10:14:39 AM   
PirateJock


Posts: 465
Joined: 9/14/2006
From: North West, UK
Status: offline
Dave

Great that you've clarified the thinking behind the pricing - and I'm feeling smug as that was my thought process before I bought it. I can see why people are unhappy with the relatively high price ... it's the 'shock' and the disappointment that can't justify going for it on Day 1. Whether or not it was the correct decision only time will tell. I hope it was so we see the continued development and support of the series; for me it's the one I enjoy best.

Shiver me timbers


(in reply to Arjuna)
Post #: 132
RE: Price? - 5/27/2010 10:28:31 AM   
Seydlitz69


Posts: 41
Joined: 10/18/2009
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I also bought as I think that small companys like PG need support, although I must say I fell more like an alcohol addict who couldnt go past the Schnapps bottle in a Supermarket then a happy customer.

< Message edited by Seydlitz69 -- 5/27/2010 10:45:04 AM >

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Post #: 133
RE: Price? - 5/27/2010 10:42:41 AM   
jomni


Posts: 2827
Joined: 11/19/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Arjuna
I would estimate that on average most players will get over 400 hours of entertainment out of BFTB. Many will get thousands of hours.


Provided that the people appreciates the game. I have only clocked a few hours on HTTR (less than 5). I fear it might be the same for this game. Maybe the demo will help to prove me wrong.

quote:

By providing a full construction set, with the inclusion of all the editors needed to create any battle, we envisage considerable content being developed by the community. This should translate into a stream of third party scenarios that will further extend the life of this product and provide even more entertainment value.


I've asked this before. What time frame and theater? Can we create maps or are we stuck with what's available?

quote:

But also consider the quality of the experience you will get with BFTB. I am not aware of any other product ( commercially or for that matter within the military simulation market ) that better simulates the role of an operational commander. Certainly when it comes to artificial intelligence, BFTB is without peer. We have added so many features to the engine since COTA, features designed to enrich your experience and make it easier for you to assess, plan and order your forces. Go to the BFTB product page and read the long list of new features and enhancements and check out the New Stuff thread on the BFTB forum.


If you are so confident about your product, why not develop software for the military as well. This will give you some money to go on operating as a company without being so dependent on commercial sales. That way, you can lower the price for the masses. :D

Anyway appreciate all the effort you've put into the game. Good luck and hope we see more games in the future.




< Message edited by jomni -- 5/27/2010 10:45:10 AM >


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Post #: 134
RE: Price? - 5/27/2010 10:43:01 AM   
vj531


Posts: 367
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Some might say its "reassuringly expensive"

PS. We sold many many copies of War In Russia on Apple II and Atari 800 way back in the dark ages at my old store in the UK Strategic Plus for £79.99. big game, big price. Save up! and have fun, will last for years! Cheep as chips in real terms.

< Message edited by sharper -- 5/27/2010 10:50:46 AM >


_____________________________

All the best
Stephen

i5 Win 10 8GB RAM

(in reply to Seydlitz69)
Post #: 135
RE: Price? - 5/27/2010 10:43:53 AM   
nicdain

 

Posts: 20
Joined: 3/15/2006
From: Florence, Italy
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Thank you Dave for the clarifications.
Actually, having played CoTA, I have no doubt about the overall quality of the series. I also have to admit that this kind of wargame, given its value, deserves a higher price in respect to other trash games or to those wargames which use the same engine over years without significant improvements.

I must say I was somehow initially shocked by the price, but on second though, and following your considerations, I think it is not totally out of place. I mean, quality has its price.

For these reasons, I think I will purchase the game, sooner or later, also because this way I hope to support further development of games with this engine.
Best regards

_____________________________

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Post #: 136
RE: Price? - 5/27/2010 10:44:16 AM   
EagleMountainDK


Posts: 515
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From: Denmark
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quote:

ORIGINAL: jomni


quote:

ORIGINAL: loyalcitizen

Can't the European players pay with Paypal, give the address of their "Summer Home" in the states , and avoid the VAT?


Buy it from the US store page and use your Paypal account.

quote:

Paypal


Just tried that, but I still have to pay 6% VAT. Going from DKK 556,00 til DKK 501,00.

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Post #: 137
RE: Price? - 5/27/2010 10:46:35 AM   
jomni


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Cougar_DK

Just tried that, but I still have to pay 6% VAT. Going from DKK 556,00 til DKK 501,00.


Sorry about that. I'm from Singapore and we don't get VAT for these transactions.

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Post #: 138
RE: Price? - 5/27/2010 10:48:25 AM   
Tomus

 

Posts: 234
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From: UK
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Joe 98


quote:

ORIGINAL: bink
By not hedging currency exposure, Panther is most directly responsible for the higher US prices.



The point is that some are claiming that Matrix has made a decision to put the prices up. But it is more likely due to the FX rate.

Before digital download, if I ordered a game from the USA, the freight includes the weight of the compulsory manual. The FX rate was somewhat different then!. I complained and you all ignored me. Now you are on the other side of the ledger.
-


TBH that sounds rather like commerical suicide. I don't think Australia provides that big a customer base for highly complex wargames. We may be on the other side of the ledger but I imagine we represent a much bigger share of the market and therefore pricing us out the purchase is madness.

Also looking at the prices in Australia it seems to me that current release PC games such as Just Cause 2 or Modern Warfare 2 are selling for $70-$80 at $102 BftB is still a lot more expensive.

That said I will buy the game definitely. I got hours of enjoyment from the other two games in the series and I have no doubt I will with this.



< Message edited by Tomus -- 5/27/2010 10:55:15 AM >

(in reply to Fred98)
Post #: 139
RE: Price? - 5/27/2010 10:53:38 AM   
EagleMountainDK


Posts: 515
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quote:

ORIGINAL: jomni


quote:

ORIGINAL: Cougar_DK

Just tried that, but I still have to pay 6% VAT. Going from DKK 556,00 til DKK 501,00.


Sorry about that. I'm from Singapore and we don't get VAT for these transactions.


No worries, just tried selecting another store location and using PayPal. Then the VAT went away and I can pay $80 for the game. Thats about DKK 483,57. Some way better than the original DKK 556,00

_____________________________


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Post #: 140
RE: Price? - 5/27/2010 11:00:39 AM   
Perturabo


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quote:

ORIGINAL: jomni

quote:

ORIGINAL: Arjuna
I would estimate that on average most players will get over 400 hours of entertainment out of BFTB. Many will get thousands of hours.


Provided that the people appreciates the game. I have only clocked a few hours on HTTR (less than 5).

Then hwat's the point of buying the game? Is it some kind of compulsive collecting of every wargame that comes out?

_____________________________

People shouldn't ask themselves why schools get shoot up.
They should ask themselves why people who finish schools burned out due to mobbing aren't receiving high enough compensations to not seek vengeance.

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Post #: 141
RE: Price? - 5/27/2010 11:01:08 AM   
Count Sessine

 

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My two cents.

The price doesn't strike me as a problem - I think it's worth the money for this kind of product. 

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Post #: 142
RE: Price? - 5/27/2010 11:02:04 AM   
Greup

 

Posts: 25
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Terminus

Pay the money or not, but don't whine about it.


I couldn't agree more.

It's a lot of money and probably more so for those who see BFTB as just another PC game. I suggest people compare the cost of BFTB to the cost of other similar priced things in life (one shoe of top brand sneakers, two premium Tequila or Scotch shots, one new tire for your car) , consider how serious you are about historical war simulations, check your budget and make your decision. If it's not worth it to you - fine. It's your choice just as much as the pricing is Panther/Matrix choice.

The world probably don't need to know that you consider a game's worth more if the scope is semi-global than if the scope is "just one battle". Be happy - go play Risk. It's a tremendous value! ;)

In my case the last war game I bought was COTA back in 2006. Call me a Panther fanboy if you want, but since Panther started issuing games again during the last decade I have found no other war sims to been worthy of my *precious* time and my money. Given the fact that I still play COTA after 4 years and I expect BFTB to last at least as long I don't have a big problem with investing in BFTB. Certainly I would rather have an east front game (Fire Brigade revisited, Arjuna?) but until then (if ever) BFTB will most likely fill a big part of my simulation needs.

Peace to the world! There are enough historical wars to be re-played.

(in reply to Terminus)
Post #: 143
RE: Price? - 5/27/2010 11:10:54 AM   
Krasny

 

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£65 for a download only computer game?!?

Wannsinn!

£30 would tempt me.

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Post #: 144
RE: Price? - 5/27/2010 11:17:35 AM   
Seydlitz69


Posts: 41
Joined: 10/18/2009
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Greup


quote:

ORIGINAL: Terminus

Pay the money or not, but don't whine about it.


I couldn't agree more.
consider how serious you are about historical war simulations, check your budget and make your decision. If it's not worth it to you - fine. It's your choice just as much as the pricing is Panther/Matrix choice.



Exactly!!! I cant understand ppl who are saying "Well, I even couldnt get into HTTR or CotA" If this isnt your kind of game than why even bother thinking of buying it. I have HTTR and CotA and I just bought BftB and I know that a high qualitity product awaits me.

(in reply to Greup)
Post #: 145
RE: Price? - 5/27/2010 11:31:27 AM   
axisandallies


Posts: 329
Joined: 9/21/2009
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Arjuna

Re Price

I appreciate your feedback on the price. No one ever likes paying more for a product. I also appreciate that for many cash is tight at the moment. Trust me I am in the same boat. Developing professional grade software for a niche entertainment market is not a path to wealth that I would recommend.
We contemplated this issue at length. On the one hand we would love to sell mega copies of BFTB. But we have to face the reality that this is a niche market and we will never be able to sell the volumes like AAA general market titles. Products like your First Person Shooters take dozens of man years to make, cost millions and need to sell hundreds of thousands of copies to succeed. The wargame market is unlikely to hit the tens of thousands of sales. So we have very small volumes and virtually no prospects of increasing those volumes, especially for a serious realistic simulation such as BFTB. Anyone who thinks that we are somehow going to be able to expand our sales volume significantly is deluding themselves.

We have committed about 50 man years of development on our series. That is a huge investment and given the cost of further development cannot be sustained with the current income stream. Since we cannot increase the volume of sales, significantly, we have two choices. We can increase the price or we can stop further development.

We are well aware of the potential impact of raising the price on sales volume. The laws of price elasticity affect all markets. However, niche markets in general are less affected primarily because there is limited offerings and hence limited competition and also because the customers in general appreciate that the unit price has to be higher than for a general market product because the cost of development has to be absorbed over a much smaller volume of sales.

Is this a good situation for our customers? No, it is not. Is it a good situation for us? Definitely not. But the choices for us are clear and stark. Sell at the old price and abandon further development or increase price and hope that we can stay in the commercial wargames business. Even at the higher price we may still be forced to abandon development because not enough people buy it. Yes it’s a big risk, but it’s the only option that may keep us designing for the commercial wargames market. I cannot put it any more bluntly.

Each one of you will have to make your own decision as to whether you think the price is worth it. I would like to think that when you consider the benefits you will answer yes. Please consider that there are 27 scenarios. Playing through each one once would provide over a hundred hours of entertainment. If you swap sides, you get another hundred hours. But with the way we have designed the scenarios and the use of generic objectives, you can play the same scenario many times and get a different experience. That is one of the beauties of the engine. I would estimate that on average most players will get over 400 hours of entertainment out of BFTB. Many will get thousands of hours.

By providing a full construction set, with the inclusion of all the editors needed to create any battle, we envisage considerable content being developed by the community. This should translate into a stream of third party scenarios that will further extend the life of this product and provide even more entertainment value.

Even at 400 hours the cost of entertainment for BFTB is just 20 cents per hour. Think about that.
Also let’s put it in relative terms to other games that you have purchased. Estimate the number of hours you have played them, then divide this into their purchase price and I bet there will be very few that are as cheap per hour as BFTB.

But also consider the quality of the experience you will get with BFTB. I am not aware of any other product ( commercially or for that matter within the military simulation market ) that better simulates the role of an operational commander. Certainly when it comes to artificial intelligence, BFTB is without peer. We have added so many features to the engine since COTA, features designed to enrich your experience and make it easier for you to assess, plan and order your forces. Go to the BFTB product page and read the long list of new features and enhancements and check out the New Stuff thread on the BFTB forum.

So it all boils down to value and priorities. Only you can make that call for yourself. I do believe that BFTB is very good value for money. We will be putting out a demo in about a month or so. So you can always wait and see. In the meantime check out the Game Concepts movie. The first of the tutorial movies will soon be available for public release. We will progressively release more of these over the coming weeks.

If you have any questions, please don’t hesitate to ask here on the forum.


If logic dictates reason, you will not sell very many copies of this game. You say the cost is so high b/c of amount of hours that PG put into the series. Is it safe to say that we are paying for past research? When you have to explain your actions in mass, and the reason why you did something then there is a problem. I have always thought that including a game editor is a way the company says "here we have done our part, now you can do your part and make more scn, post them, keep the game alive so we can sale more copies and make more money." I will be honest, this game is overpriced.

_____________________________

Stupid rebellion, anyhow....D. Vader

(in reply to Arjuna)
Post #: 146
RE: Price? - 5/27/2010 11:38:03 AM   
Nihil

 

Posts: 16
Joined: 4/17/2008
Status: offline
The only thing I can compare a wargame price is with another one, not with a car tire, with a cofee or whatever.

Wargames are a niche, well... probably they are, but they ALL are, not just PG's. There are many wargames out there which have given me a lot of enjoyment as well so I can´t see the reason to pay 75 € for something I have been paying 40-45 € until now, and if we do so and pay that for this game why shouldnt other delelopers do exactly the same and raise their prices?

And of course I am going to whine, I am the client after all, and if I didn´t care for the game I wouldnt bother.


(in reply to Seydlitz69)
Post #: 147
RE: Price? - 5/27/2010 11:41:44 AM   
Arjuna


Posts: 17785
Joined: 3/31/2003
From: Canberra, Australia
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: jomni
What time frame and theater? Can we create maps or are we stuck with what's available?


As I said in a recent interview, there is really no restrictions at all on the data you cna create. You can generate whatever maps, forces and scenarios you like. The only constraint is the doctrine that is supported by the engine. AT the moment it designed to model WW2 west front. It doesn't, for instance specifically model Soviet Cav doctrine, though you could readily create an east front game with Soviet Cav forces and they would conduct assaults, defend, move etc.

quote:

If you are so confident about your product, why not develop software for the military as well. This will give you some money to go on operating as a company without being so dependent on commercial sales. That way, you can lower the price for the masses. :D

I have been trying to do that since 2003. But what you need to realise is that the military are very conservative and slow to uptake new simulation technology. Having said that we are hopeful that one day we can secure a contract for developing wargames for the military. Time will tell.

_____________________________

Dave "Arjuna" O'Connor
www.panthergames.com

(in reply to jomni)
Post #: 148
RE: Price? - 5/27/2010 11:51:54 AM   
thewood1

 

Posts: 5181
Joined: 11/27/2005
Status: offline
I have purchased a lot of games from Matrix that I played for a few hours and then put back on the shelf.  Lack of demos, lack of self restraint, too much free capital; these are all reasons I take chances on $40-$50 games and don't sweat it if I set them aside.  I have played around with a friend's copy of COTA, but held off buying it because I figured I would wait for the bulge.  But at $80, I don't make that casual purchase that I would at $50.  That is the market Matrix is losing.  I had the same issue with Steel Beasts.  I would love to get it, but at $120, it is well past the "casual purchase and dick around with it for a few weeks" activity.  Same with $80.  Matrix will always get the people obsessed with a series to fork out whatever.  But the casual buyer where this type of wargame falls out by their typical interest zone will be lost.

(in reply to Arjuna)
Post #: 149
RE: Price? - 5/27/2010 11:55:22 AM   
MajFrankBurns

 

Posts: 344
Joined: 3/29/2010
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: sharper

Some might say its "reassuringly expensive"

PS. We sold many many copies of War In Russia on Apple II and Atari 800 way back in the dark ages at my old store in the UK Strategic Plus for £79.99. big game, big price. Save up! and have fun, will last for years! Cheep as chips in real terms.


One thing I'd like to bring up here is back then there weren't 1000's of computer strategy/ wargames out there and our budgets allowed us to pick up and buy just about anything released. Today there are 1000's of pc strategy and wargames and we can be a lot more selective and thrifty about our purchases. So, you used a bad analagy for this one this time.

(in reply to vj531)
Post #: 150
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