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RE: Price? - You get what you pay for!! - 6/15/2010 12:01:05 PM

htuna

Posts: 591
Joined: 1/19/2009
From: Boston, MA
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: LRRP

quote:

I don't get the logic here. You must have a printed manual because you're old fashioned but you don't want a printed manual afterall.

Why don't you just say say what you mean - you feel that a Battle of the Bulge game that explores the whole campaign in 27 scenarios and with a robust AI is a rip of for you at $80 USD.

There's always this - released in 2001, 20 scenarios (once a sentimental favourite of mine though no longer on my HD) and an AI that struggles at $50USD.

Maybe what Matrix needs is the Shamwow guy to show what "makes sense"

Thanks for your advise on HPS Bulge 44 and helping me decide to not buy the overpriced model and get a proven model at a much better price HPS Bulge 44. I played COTA again and to be honest it was ok, nothing great.

Hope you got it from NWS.. only 29 there (all HPS titles are)!

(in reply to Rocko911)

Post #: 661

RE: Price? - 6/15/2010 12:16:25 PM

Adam Parker

Posts: 1848
Joined: 4/2/2002
From: Melbourne Australia
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: JudgeDredd

...I do not mind spending �40-�60 for a boardgame. I don't know why that seems acceptable to me...it just is.

Yep it is perception.

Btw Conflict of Heroes (either title) is selling for $120 AUD here ($102 currently on special).

(in reply to JudgeDredd)

Post #: 662

RE: Price? - 6/15/2010 12:30:20 PM

CptWaspLuca

Posts: 199
Joined: 9/6/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Adam Parker
Yep it is perception.

I think that the value of something is always subjective; we are just expressing points of view.

Reviews are the same: a reviewer could claim "objectiveness" but it's a myth.

I think that this thread is very rich of useful feedback for Panther Games, they have a "profile" of a good number of potential/already customers, and with these numbers at hand they can better decide future investments and marketing strategy.

Boardgames are a very different product type, so I think that the comparison doesn't work. The digital download version of a PC product eliminates a lot of costs, and boardgames are today (at least sometime) very rich of maps, counters, cards and so on, and the price can be higher. In the board-wargames sector the average price is higher than the PC games average.

Maybe I still hope that Panther Games will change its mind about BftB and convert HTTR scenarios freely for us, it would be great and it would lower the price issue (for those thinking it's an issue obviously).

Bye!

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(in reply to Adam Parker)

Post #: 663

RE: Price? - 6/15/2010 12:35:38 PM

htuna

Posts: 591
Joined: 1/19/2009
From: Boston, MA
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: CptWasp

quote:

ORIGINAL: Adam Parker
Yep it is perception.

I think that the value of something is always subjective; we are just expressing points of view.

Reviews are the same: a reviewer could claim "objectiveness" but it's a myth.

I think that this thread is very rich of useful feedback for Panther Games, they have a "profile" of a good number of potential/already customers, and with these numbers at hand they can better decide future investments and marketing strategy.

Boardgames are a very different product type, so I think that the comparison doesn't work. The digital download version of a PC product eliminates a lot of costs, and boardgames are today (at least sometime) very rich of maps, counters, cards and so on, and the price can be higher. In the board-wargames sector the average price is higher than the PC games average.

Maybe I still hope that Panther Games will change its mind about BftB and convert HTTR scenarios freely for us, it would be great and it would lower the price issue (for those thinking it's an issue obviously).

Bye!

This 'price' thread has probably helped them with regards to, it has changed a lot of people's minds...

I think the bigger loss, is the people who don't visit the forum... hear about a great game.. go to the store see the price and then move on...

(in reply to CptWaspLuca)

Post #: 664

RE: Price? - 6/15/2010 5:56:58 PM

jjax

Posts: 286
Joined: 2/24/2005
Status: offline

I have been silently reading this thread for some time. But as a customer of Panther games, I think I deserve some forum space for my opinion.

I own HTTR and COTA and I do like the series. However, I am not yet convince that changes to the engine and new BotB scenarios justify the heavy price. I think one of the biggest things that annoy me is that there was no attempt to link the scenarios together to create a sort of grand campaign (please correct me if I am wrong). Going the extra mile to do this would have done a lot to convince me otherwise.

Mind you, I would not mind paying 80 for the software as is, but there would have to be a lot of "added value" to convince me to pay that much. With that in mind, I did think this was a good idea

quote:

My 2 cents. For me the price would be OK only for a gold edition, including HTTR+COTA scenarios with the new engine.

Somebody also said they should through in a printed manual at that price which I think is not such a bad idea (at lease it is a start).

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Post #: 665

RE: Price? - 6/15/2010 6:07:28 PM

Toby42

Posts: 1575
Joined: 8/10/2003
From: Central Florida
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Nah!!! Real men don't need no stinking manual

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Post #: 666

RE: Price? - 6/15/2010 6:12:50 PM

Hertston

Posts: 3564
Joined: 8/17/2002
From: Cornwall, UK
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: jjax

I think one of the biggest things that annoy me is that there was no attempt to link the scenarios together to create a sort of grand campaign (please correct me if I am wrong). Going the extra mile to do this would have done a lot to convince me otherwise.

How do you think that could actually work with this series? I know a lot of folks like a 'campaign' option, but what this game offers is a series of historical scenarios as meticulously researched and accurately presented as possible. Any sort of 'carry forces forward and get new units' approach would just make a nonsense of that, even if not totally wrecking the balance of each scenario.

I can only think of two ways of doing it. One would be simply linking scenarios in temporal order but unless you have some sort of scenario 'unlocking' on successful completion of others (which would drive most people up the wall, including me), why bother? The other would be something like the branching campaigns of some of the HPS series with loads and loads of historical, partly historical and fictional scenarios depending on actions and outcomes but, again, would the demand be enough to justify the extra development time, which would be substantial?

(in reply to jjax)

Post #: 667

RE: Price? - 6/15/2010 6:13:01 PM

Obsolete

Posts: 1492
Joined: 9/4/2007
Status: offline

Alright, time to get more back on topic.

I do remember when the top of the line EB games were at 40$. It was said they were so expensive because the MANUALS inflated the costs. Then I noticed the games quickly moved up into the 50$ bracket on the shelves, and just about non of them came with a manual anymore. So much for that theory about the manual cost. I think it was a ruse all along.

I haven't checked EB prices in ages as I don't go there anymore, but I bet average price for a new game is what, 60-70$ now? And I bet you still dont' get those big manuals and charts & posters like in the old days for half the price.

I really do miss when you'd purchase Civ III and get a really nice well done hefty manual, they were always a joy to read and keep as a souveneir. I still got manuals from TOAW etc. kicking around. Sometimes when on a trip to the dentist office and I know I'm going to have to burn off time, I'll tag one of these along and brief through em again for nostalgia.

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Post #: 668

RE: Price? - 6/15/2010 6:44:21 PM

Knavery

Posts: 286
Joined: 3/11/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Obsolete

I haven't checked EB prices in ages as I don't go there anymore, but I bet average price for a new game is what, 60-70$ now?�� And I bet you still dont' get those big manuals and charts & posters like in the old days for half the price.

Actually, the average price for a newly released PC game is between 40-50 bucks. I know that when Starcraft II comes out, that'll be somewhere around 55-60 dollars. I also recall id games being around 50-55 bucks when released. But on average, they're between 40-50. And depending on the game, you still get those big manuals you're talking about. It's only after a year or two when the publisher puts out a cheaper version that you won't see a manual with the game. It also largely depends on the type of game. You won't need anything beyond a hotkey card for an FPS, but for something like Civ IV, a big manual is nice!

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Post #: 669

RE: Price? - 6/15/2010 6:55:06 PM

Obsolete

Posts: 1492
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Actually, the currency value is different in from country to country so maybe I should have specified my values were in a CAN (get it?). Though I think the US & CAN were pretty close not to long ago, but that's probably changed for the worse with the terrible economy in the US right now.

Anyway, I still have a whole stack here of them manuals from all my older collections. It's almost like a library and I really ought to organize it all better someday. Maybe.... someday.

I still remember though, when you'd walk into a store, if you couldn't make up your mind between getting Civ III, or another game, one would just pick up the two boxes and notice something. The the first would seem very heavy, indicating getting something extra of value. The other would feel feather light, indicating lesser. So all things being equal, people would always go with the former.

I remember also when the trick of making the GAME BOX BIGGER seemed to be some sort of sales gimmick that started some new craze with the publishers. The EB guys used to tell me they hated stocking those because they minimized shelving space.

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Post #: 670

RE: Price? - 6/15/2010 8:23:04 PM

valrond

Posts: 1
Joined: 6/15/2010
Status: offline

Hello.

I just got here because a few minutes ago I read the perfect (8/8) review at outofeight.info. I'm a fan of wargames, but I hadn't heard of matrix games before, well, I did when I saw the Distant Worlds review, but didn't see any wargames. Well, more exactly, I'm a Paradox Interactive fan, mainly of the Europa Universalis and Hearts of Iron series. Now, I'm not trying to compare those games, but they cover a similar market, and PI markets is quite niche too. However, they have a different approach for the pricing. Let's take EU3, for example. If you but the game at release, as I did, it costs 40�. They patch it 3 times, then they release the first expansion, Napoleon's Ambition, for 20�, another patch and some time later, we get in nomine for another 20�. And when we thought it was all over, we get Heir to the Throne, that makes the game near perfect, for another 20�. In total, we paid 100� to get a near perfect game. Had it sold for 100, or even 80� at release, with all the expansions included?. Hell, no, it wouldn't. When they needed more money for the game, they released an expansion, so it wouldn't amount to that much.

However, as I see it from what I've read, Matrix is offering a near perfect game from the beginning, and justifies, with reason, that the game is worth it, something I'm not disputing. The problem is, that even if it's a niche market, it's STILL a videogame, even more, a PC videogame, and PC videogamers, even those to buy niche market games, aren't used to pay more than 50, let alone 80�/$ or more for a game, even if it's unique and near perfect. And we see the reaction here.

BftB has 27 missions, wouldn't it be better for the business to release the game with 13 missions at 50�/$ and 2 expansions of 7 missions with some AI and UI updates for 20� each?.

(in reply to Obsolete)

Post #: 671

RE: Price? - 6/16/2010 1:34:55 AM

MajFrankBurns

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Joined: 3/29/2010
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The difference valrond is that over time the EU3 game came down to $7.99 complete less that last expansion. This BftB will 99.9% not come down to that level. You might see a 25% discount two years from now in December and that's it. I have no problem with games retailing for $80 what I have a problem with is them staying at $80 10 years from now. Check the dates of many of the Matrix Library and the prices. Some games are well over 5 years old and still their origional price or in the case of HTTR or COTA even HIGHER than they started out.

< Message edited by MajFrankBurns -- 6/16/2010 1:35:54 AM >

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Post #: 672

RE: Price? - 6/16/2010 3:34:20 AM

bretg80

Posts: 289
Joined: 6/8/2009
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Still pointless... It's like going down to your favorite car company with a sign and calling the news media to broadcast your perspective about their pricing. Sure, you get your 15 minutes, but they aren't going to change their price because you are complaining about it. Especially if other people are buying their cars.

What affects price. Perceived value, quality and demand.

This game is in demand, it has perceived value and great quality. It is a BMW, Lexus, Rolls Royce, Mercedes, etc. You don't go to a BMW dealer and complain about price. They'll laugh you out of the dealership.

I'm kind of laughing here that this thread is still alive.

(in reply to Arsan)

Post #: 673

RE: Price? - 6/16/2010 3:45:08 AM

Larac

Posts: 250
Joined: 9/5/2004
Status: offline

Laughing or not your still posting here, and that keeps it on top.

Bought the game, not sure it is worth the price yet, as I am in the learning stages.

Time will tell.

Lee

(in reply to bretg80)

Post #: 674

RE: Price? - 6/16/2010 7:44:32 AM

billyjj

Posts: 85
Joined: 2/18/2010
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: bretg80

Still pointless... It's like going down to your favorite car company with a sign and calling the news media to broadcast your perspective about their pricing. Sure, you get your 15 minutes, but they aren't going to change their price because you are complaining about it. Especially if other people are buying their cars.

What affects price. Perceived value, quality and demand.

This game is in demand, it has perceived value and great quality. It is a BMW, Lexus, Rolls Royce, Mercedes, etc. You don't go to a BMW dealer and complain about price. They'll laugh you out of the dealership.

I'm kind of laughing here that this thread is still alive.

I'm not sure what country you live in but in the US buying a car is one big price negotiation, they won't "laugh you out of the dealer" unless you are being completely ridiculous.. wanting to pay 40-50 dollars for a video game instead of 80 is not the same as offering 10K dollars for a 50K car. People complain about the price all day long difference is the car dealer will cut you a deal because you will go somewhere else... here they got you by the nuts because you want something only they can sell, so that is why they are jacking up the price and saying PAY IT OR **** OFF. There can really be no demand for the game without supply... with digital downloads supply would be unlimited.. the only "demand" for the game is that you want it... higher price = lower demand..

< Message edited by billyjj -- 6/16/2010 7:54:39 AM >

(in reply to bretg80)

Post #: 675

RE: Price? - 6/16/2010 9:06:00 AM

jomni

Posts: 2827
Joined: 11/19/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: valrond
BftB has 27 missions, wouldn't it be better for the business to release the game with 13 missions at 50�/$ and 2 expansions of 7 missions with some AI and UI updates for 20� each?.

Ah the Paradox strategy. There are pepole who don't like that strategy as they seem to think that important fixes are included in those expansions which should be part of the original in the first place (a patch that is not free). It does give the developer some money to work with but consumers think it's unfair since they think Paradox is releasing substandard software initially.

Matrix strategy is completely different as they release the whole game but makes it more painful to the developer. Prices like these cannot be avoided due to certain circumstances. But I sure wish they tweaked the business model to make it benefitial to both parties.

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Post #: 676

RE: Price? - 6/16/2010 9:21:39 AM

goodwoodrw

Posts: 2645
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Some people just like the sound of their own typing............others just like the price

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Post #: 677

RE: Price? - 6/16/2010 11:53:08 AM

MajFrankBurns

Posts: 344
Joined: 3/29/2010
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quote:

ORIGINAL: BASB

Some people just like the sound of their own typing............others just like the price�

You must belong to that first catagory then.

(in reply to goodwoodrw)

Post #: 678

RE: Price? - 6/16/2010 11:54:01 AM

MajFrankBurns

Posts: 344
Joined: 3/29/2010
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: billyjj

quote:

ORIGINAL: bretg80

Still pointless... It's like going down to your favorite car company with a sign and calling the news media to broadcast your perspective about their pricing. Sure, you get your 15 minutes, but they aren't going to change their price because you are complaining about it. Especially if other people are buying their cars.

What affects price. Perceived value, quality and demand.

This game is in demand, it has perceived value and great quality. It is a BMW, Lexus, Rolls Royce, Mercedes, etc. You don't go to a BMW dealer and complain about price. They'll laugh you out of the dealership.

I'm kind of laughing here that this thread is still alive.

I'm not sure what country you live in but in the US buying a car is one big price negotiation, they won't "laugh you out of the dealer" unless you are being completely ridiculous.. wanting to pay 40-50 dollars for a video game instead of 80 is not the same as offering 10K dollars for a 50K car. People complain about the price all day long difference is the car dealer will cut you a deal because you will go somewhere else... here they got you by the nuts because you want something only they can sell, so that is why they are jacking up the price and saying PAY IT OR **** OFF. There can really be no demand for the game without supply... with digital downloads supply would be unlimited.. the only "demand" for the game is that you want it... higher price = lower demand..

+1 for billyjj he wins the world cup of reasoning.

Also let's just do some math here. We'll make it real easy. Let's just say they had 1000 loyal customers willing and ready to pay $60 for this game that comes to 60000 they could have made. But, due to the high price they lost half of their loyal customer base (based on pricing threads in several forums this isn't far from the truth) so they got 500 of their loyal customers to pay $80 for this game and that comes to 40000 so I really don't see how this marketing strategy is going to pay off for them. To just break EVEN to the 60000 they would have to get 750 of their loyal customers out of 1000 to buy it and that ain't happening. Not to mention they pissed off 250 to 500 loyal customers by pricing out of their range. That's going to effect future sales of other games down the line as those customers turn away from Matrixgames for other more reasonable sources like Paradox or Strategy First or Shrapnel or HPS or Battlefront.

Just some food for thought that breaking even point is a long ways off.

< Message edited by MajFrankBurns -- 6/16/2010 12:06:07 PM >

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Post #: 679

RE: Price? - 6/16/2010 12:55:02 PM

Adam Parker

Posts: 1848
Joined: 4/2/2002
From: Melbourne Australia
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: MajFrankBurns...
so I really don't see how this marketing strategy is going to pay off for them.

Start here MajFrankBurns. Let me know if you need more help.

You'll be particularly interested in E<1. Explains the phenomena of petrol price rises, high interest credit card blow outs and the popularity of 18c engagement rings in a record gold market.

The Price Elasticity of Demand

(in reply to MajFrankBurns)

Post #: 680

RE: Price? - 6/16/2010 1:00:21 PM

JudgeDredd

Posts: 8567
Joined: 11/14/2003
From: Scotland
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: MajFrankBurns

quote:

ORIGINAL: billyjj

quote:

ORIGINAL: bretg80

Still pointless... It's like going down to your favorite car company with a sign and calling the news media to broadcast your perspective about their pricing. Sure, you get your 15 minutes, but they aren't going to change their price because you are complaining about it. Especially if other people are buying their cars.

What affects price. Perceived value, quality and demand.

This game is in demand, it has perceived value and great quality. It is a BMW, Lexus, Rolls Royce, Mercedes, etc. You don't go to a BMW dealer and complain about price. They'll laugh you out of the dealership.

I'm kind of laughing here that this thread is still alive.

I'm not sure what country you live in but in the US buying a car is one big price negotiation, they won't "laugh you out of the dealer" unless you are being completely ridiculous.. wanting to pay 40-50 dollars for a video game instead of 80 is not the same as offering 10K dollars for a 50K car. People complain about the price all day long difference is the car dealer will cut you a deal because you will go somewhere else... here they got you by the nuts because you want something only they can sell, so that is why they are jacking up the price and saying PAY IT OR **** OFF. There can really be no demand for the game without supply... with digital downloads supply would be unlimited.. the only "demand" for the game is that you want it... higher price = lower demand..

+1 for billyjj he wins the world cup of reasoning.

Also let's just do some math here. We'll make it real easy. Let's just say they had 1000 loyal customers willing and ready to pay $60 for this game that comes to 60000 they could have made. But, due to the high price they lost half of their loyal customer base (based on pricing threads in several forums this isn't far from the truth) so they got 500 of their loyal customers to pay $80 for this game and that comes to 40000 so I really don't see how this marketing strategy is going to pay off for them. To just break EVEN to the 60000 they would have to get 750 of their loyal customers out of 1000 to buy it and that ain't happening. Not to mention they pissed off 250 to 500 loyal customers by pricing out of their range. That's going to effect future sales of other games down the line as those customers turn away from Matrixgames for other more reasonable sources like Paradox or Strategy First or Shrapnel or HPS or Battlefront.

Just some food for thought that breaking even point is a long ways off.

wow. Such insight into Matrix Games financial position re this game. I had no idea you worked within the team. As you well know I still have an issue with the price, however how does plucking figures out the air help?

As an example...let's just do some math here. We'll make it real easy. Let's just say they had 1000 loyal customers willing and ready to pay $80 for this game that comes to 80000 they could have made. But, due to the high price they lost 10 of their loyal customer base (based on pricing threads in several forums this isn't far from the truth) so they got 990 of their loyal customers to pay $80 for this game and that comes to 79200 so I really don't see how this marketing strategy is going to pay off for them. To just break EVEN to the 80000 they would have to get 1000 of their loyal customers out of 1000 to buy it and that ain't happening. Not to mention they pissed off 10 loyal customers by pricing out of their range. That's going to effect future sales of other games down the line as those customers turn away from Matrixgames for other more reasonable sources like Paradox or Strategy First or Shrapnel or HPS or Battlefront.

point? Figures plucked out the air mean bugger all...your example is just as bad as the pathetic BMW comparisons!

By the way - I can tell just from reading your post that you work in a stats department.

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Post #: 681

RE: Price? - 6/16/2010 1:00:39 PM

MajFrankBurns

Posts: 344
Joined: 3/29/2010
Status: offline

18c engagement rings have long lasting value, games like this don't. If you notice the price of gasoline has gone down .25 in the last month.

Also petrol is a necessity, games aren't. engagement rings are a necessity if you want your future wife to marry you games are not. And even mentioning credit cards is a laugh we all know how they hide those interest rates in their schemes to get you to use them as many people who have them never read the fine print.

So come back with something more useful all that you listed is fail.

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Post #: 682

RE: Price? - 6/16/2010 1:00:57 PM

daft

Posts: 398
Joined: 5/18/2002
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: MajFrankBurns

+1 for billyjj he wins the world cup of reasoning.

Also let's just do some math here. We'll make it real easy. Let's just say they had 1000 loyal customers willing and ready to pay $60 for this game that comes to 60000 they could have made. But, due to the high price they lost half of their loyal customer base (based on pricing threads in several forums this isn't far from the truth) so they got 500 of their loyal customers to pay $80 for this game and that comes to 40000 so I really don't see how this marketing strategy is going to pay off for them. To just break EVEN to the 60000 they would have to get 750 of their loyal customers out of 1000 to buy it and that ain't happening. Not to mention they pissed off 250 to 500 loyal customers by pricing out of their range. That's going to effect future sales of other games down the line as those customers turn away from Matrixgames for other more reasonable sources like Paradox or Strategy First or Shrapnel or HPS or Battlefront.

Just some food for thought that breaking even point is a long ways off.

Nothing like doing math and statistics with arbitrarily selected numbers. In this case I trust both Matrix and Panther Games market knowledge over what you suggest. That certainly doesn't mean that the sales won't bomb or that BftB is failing financially, although I don't think so myself. They have obviously gone over the numbers themselves and sketched a number of different scenarios, so in this case I doubt they didn't know the risks and rewards involved when deciding on the price.

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Post #: 683

RE: Price? - 6/16/2010 1:04:08 PM

MajFrankBurns

Posts: 344
Joined: 3/29/2010
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quote:

As an example...let's just do some math here. We'll make it real easy. Let's just say they had 1000 loyal customers willing and ready to pay $80 for this game that comes to 80000 they could have made. But, due to the high price they lost 10 of their loyal customer base (based on pricing threads in several forums this isn't far from the truth) so they got 990 of their loyal customers to pay $80 for this game and that comes to 79200 so I really don't see how this marketing strategy is going to pay off for them. To just break EVEN to the 80000 they would have to get 1000 of their loyal customers out of 1000 to buy it and that ain't happening. Not to mention they pissed off 10 loyal customers by pricing out of their range. That's going to effect future sales of other games down the line as those customers turn away from Matrixgames for other more reasonable sources like Paradox or Strategy First or Shrapnel or HPS or Battlefront.

point? Figures plucked out the air mean bugger all...your example is just as bad as the pathetic BMW comparisons!

By the way - I can tell just from reading your post that you work in a stats department.

It's pretty easy to see from this thread alone that more than 10 people aren't going to buy this game based on price alone. Then you have those that aren't going to buy it because of the type of game it is. Then you have those that aren't going to buy it because of the era. You're assumptions are off the charts rediculous, mine are not.

(in reply to MajFrankBurns)

Post #: 684

RE: Price? - 6/16/2010 1:06:30 PM

MajFrankBurns

Posts: 344
Joined: 3/29/2010
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quote:

ORIGINAL: daft

quote:

ORIGINAL: MajFrankBurns

+1 for billyjj he wins the world cup of reasoning.

Also let's just do some math here. We'll make it real easy. Let's just say they had 1000 loyal customers willing and ready to pay $60 for this game that comes to 60000 they could have made. But, due to the high price they lost half of their loyal customer base (based on pricing threads in several forums this isn't far from the truth) so they got 500 of their loyal customers to pay $80 for this game and that comes to 40000 so I really don't see how this marketing strategy is going to pay off for them. To just break EVEN to the 60000 they would have to get 750 of their loyal customers out of 1000 to buy it and that ain't happening. Not to mention they pissed off 250 to 500 loyal customers by pricing out of their range. That's going to effect future sales of other games down the line as those customers turn away from Matrixgames for other more reasonable sources like Paradox or Strategy First or Shrapnel or HPS or Battlefront.

Just some food for thought that breaking even point is a long ways off.

Nothing like doing math and statistics with arbitrarily selected numbers. In this case I trust both Matrix and Panther Games market knowledge over what you suggest. That certainly doesn't mean that the sales won't bomb or that BftB is failing financially, although I don't think so myself. They have obviously gone over the numbers themselves and sketched a number of different scenarios, so in this case I doubt they didn't know the risks and rewards involved when deciding on the price.

first of all there's no way ANYONE can know what the sales figures are going to be. Myself or Matrixgames. I can come just as close with my assumptions as they can. Predictions of individual value of something like a game are rediculous in the first place. But, as I've pointed out those are just as much of the possible outcomes as their own. We'll see who's right in the end won't we? When there is no futher production of Panther games I'll be back to tell you I told you so.

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Post #: 685

RE: Price? - 6/16/2010 1:07:43 PM

Adam Parker

Posts: 1848
Joined: 4/2/2002
From: Melbourne Australia
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quote:

ORIGINAL: MajFrankBurns

... all that you listed is fail.

Is that like "all your bases are belong to us"?

You should be a game designer Frank!

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RE: Price? - 6/16/2010 1:09:48 PM

MajFrankBurns

Posts: 344
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Adam Parker

quote:

ORIGINAL: MajFrankBurns

... all that you listed is fail.

Is that like "all your bases are belong to us"?

You should be a game designer Frank!

If you're going to debate then debate don't start acting like a child.

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RE: Price? - 6/16/2010 1:11:53 PM

DanOppenheim

Posts: 126
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quote:

ORIGINAL: MajFrankBurns
If you're going to debate then debate don't start acting like a child.

Oh the irony!

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RE: Price? - 6/16/2010 1:13:03 PM

daft

Posts: 398
Joined: 5/18/2002
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quote:

ORIGINAL: MajFrankBurns

first of all there's no way ANYONE can know what the sales figures are going to be. Myself or Matrixgames. I can come just as close with my assumptions as they can. Predictions of individual value of something like a game are rediculous in the first place. But, as I've pointed out those are just as much of the possible outcomes as their own. We'll see who's right in the end won't we? When there is no futher production of Panther games I'll be back to tell you I told you so.

No, but Matrix and PG at least have a reasonable understanding of the market in the sense that they at least know how many units this series has sold in the past. They also have a decent understanding of how the price effects the market in terms of diminishing sales etc. You don't. You are just guessing, they are at the very least estimating based on historical evidence and experiences.

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RE: Price? - 6/16/2010 2:08:36 PM

JudgeDredd

Posts: 8567
Joined: 11/14/2003
From: Scotland
Status: offline

I think we have seen into the mindset that is MFB - he simply wants Panther Games to fail. I on the other hand do not, though I would like them to rethink their pricing when they release their next game.

"I told you so" is very strong in MFBs vocabulary and he desperately needs to be proven right - just like an old time long lost friend. Perhaps he will...I hope not but you can count on this - he WILL be back to tell you he was right if they do fail and he WON'T be back to tell you he was wrong if they don't fail...put a bet on that - it's money in the bank!

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Alba gu' brath

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Post #: 690