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proposition: Living Galaxy- Civilan Voices: The living Private Sector

 
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proposition: Living Galaxy- Civilan Voices: The living ... - 5/10/2010 9:47:34 PM   
Bartje

 

Posts: 308
Joined: 4/27/2010
From: Netherlands
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A Civilian Presence

Right now the civilan presence in the game is mostly through the abstract private sector and its ships traveling from planet to planet.

An elected official has just about as much to worry from this abstract behemoth as an imperial dictator or emperor.

It would be a very nice touch to put a face on the private sector. This would also play on one of DW's major strenghts. It's ability to simulate not only ship vs ship combat but the possibility of simulating space faring societies in conflict. Conflict over resources and perhaps ideas.

This conflict is not nessicarily external. Many empires have falles due to internal conflicts. (unhappy civilian groups could be an indication of how likely civil war is, for example!)

This also requires strategy.



How would the private sector get a face?

Well the abstract numbers are there already. What would need to happen is to interpret the data and do it in such a way as makes sense for the race, government as well as situational context (war/peace, scarcity/abundance, small/big, threatened/secure)



An example:

The Traders Union:

The Traders Union is a powerful organisation within our empire that is primarily concerned with the expansion of trade & economic growth.

Main points of the Traders Union Agenda are safety on the tradelanes.

This would mean that not only is your (private) economy harmed by pirates / other empires destroying your traders, it will harm the Trader's Union opinion about you. (under given circumstances ofcourse. Less so in War; they're also patriots! Especially if it is a defensive war for example)

In essence the player would thus have to maintain a reputation with the traders league to keep his private sector running smoothly. (they can be a royal pain if upset. Increased corruption, higher prices for goods.... etc..)

This would give the player, as well as perhaps AI empires real concerns for keeping their freighters safe from harm. (Those darned civilians have a voice now!)

They like: Trader safety, good energy tech (speed), free trade agreements

They dislike: Trader deaths, outdated energy tech (bad for competition), war / no free trade




Another example:

The Admiralty:

The Player might be the head honcho but he is by no means alone in the galaxy.

Ships are not just mindless automatons you know; they're flown by actual living beings!

The admiralty is mainly concerned with the relative strenght of your space forces as well as the proper handeling of the navy.

Their agenda is mainly: Maintaining a sufficient defensive space navy, Not losing naval vessels, Upgrades & retrofits.

They like: Strong navy, modern navy, modern weapon tech / energy tech

They dislike: Weak navy, outdated navy, outdated weapon / energy tech

Displeasing the admiralty doesn't impact their will to fight but it does mean the navy won't be run at top efficiency. (a bonus for a happy admiralty; not a malus for an unhappy admiralty. slightly Lower upkeep or new-shipcost for example??)

(Shameless propaganda--> Perhaps the Admiralty of an empire could be housed in a fleet command station @ homeplanet, one of a kind ???)




Another example:

The Nationalist Faction (Humans First!)

The Nationalist faction view <your_race> as the one destined to rule or conquer the galaxy (note: make more eloquent)

They like: Expansion, a strong military, subjugation of other races, Imperial power, weapon research.

They dislike: outdated weapon tech, being subjugated, being threatened by another (unworthy) race, not being a very influential / powerfull empire.




Another example:

The Tourist Insurance front

With the advent of intergalactic exploration tourism soon came to the stars. Resorts have sprung up all over the galaxy, giving the tourism markret a powerful voice in imperial policy making.

Agenda: Peace, secure resorts, high tourism.

boni: more stable tourist income, lower resort maintenetance

The tourist insurance front dislikes resorts being attacked, damaged & destroyed. They also dislike war because it means there will be fewer tourists. Especially war with a nation that sends tourists is unpopular.






The Existential Rights Movement:


The Existential Rights Movement (TERM) is primarily concerned with protecting the fundamental rights of all "conscious" (-recognizes / reasons its own existence) life in the universe.

TERM's agenda is mainly to oppose planetary bombings, wars (unless defensive; survival is natural), To promote growth & change. (colonization etc..)

The Movement is stringently opposed to the extermination or genocide of conscious life. (unhappiness bonus empire wide depending on TERM's strenght in the Empire)

If TERM's agenda is given due attention the citizens of your Empire will feel more content in life and accepting of their place within the Universe. (happiness bonus depending on TERM's strenght in the Empire)





The Intelligence Agency:


The IA is composed of those shrewd and capable members entrusted with running the spying programs of your Empire

Agenda: Proper Domestic Intelligence Defense, Information gathering concerning other empires, (in war) Sabotage / aiding the war effort.

The IA, being a government group always runs at full efficiency and therefore gives no malus if "unhappy" or structurally ignored.

If their advice is heeded however the organization will run just that bit more efficient resulting in a slightly more effective Intelligence operation. (slightly increased spies as well as lower cost)






The Hive (Queen / Collective):


The Hive is the central dominating aspect our Empire. (if Hive government) It's will is law.

Agenda: Empire's prosperity

Being the state (player) ignorning the hive gives no detrimental malus.

Following the Hive's advice / directive may afford a small bonus however (depending on situation??)

comment: The Hive "group" is supposed to represent the unity within the Hive system of government. No other "factions" or "groups" can be present besides this one.

In essence; the player is playing the hive. The "directives" the hive would occasionally give are thus essentialy nothing more than "impulses" from certain branches of the Hive to the central brain. Heeding these impulses can be rewarding.






The Ruling Party:

The Ruling Party is the dominant Political faction within our Government. (perhaps its agenda changes every so many years??)

Agenda: Empire's prosperity

In essence the player represents the ruling party.

Following the advice given by certain branches of government improves the parties standing in the Empire's politics. There is no downside or malus for not doing so. (except missing the bonus)

If their advice is heeded the government runs slightly more efficient resulting in slightly higher morale as well as lower costs within the empire.






The Legalist Party:


The Legalist party is primarily concerned with the legal side of society.

Agenda: Legalism

The LP would like to see an international body governing the legal affairs (perhaps political and diplomatic as well??) of all interstellar races.


The LP does not like it if the Empire does not honour its agreements. (mutual defense / alliance etc..)

Heeding the LP means a slight increase in morale (people know that the government is consistent not random) as well a slight bonus to reputation. (The Empire becomes more predictable and reliable to outsiders)






The Industrial Lobby:

The IL is a conglomerate of industries from across the empire.


Agenda: Advancing Industrial Production & Profit

The IL is a purely civilian group that forms a political group to convince politicians to heed its agenda.

The IL likes: new planets & resources, Industrial research.

The IL dislikes: not having acces to resources, outdated Industrial tech.

Pleasing the Industrial Lobby means resource income is slightly higher / cost decrease for building stuff




The Royalists

The Royalists are staunch supporters of the Monarchy.

Agenda: Empire's prosperity

In essence the player is the monarch and these are his loyalist supporters.

Following the advice given by certain branches of government improves the parties standing in the Empire. (staying in contact with the people improves the monarch & loyalists support among the people)
There is no downside or malus for not doing so. (except missing the bonus)

If their advice is heeded the government runs slightly more efficient resulting in slightly higher morale as well as lower costs within the empire.






The Army

The Army represents the voice of the top brass within the government. The army is primarily concerned with planetary forces as opposed to the navy that is space based.

Agenda: Keeping the Empire safe

Likes: Strong Army, modern weapons tech, planetary security, succesfull invasions.

dislikes: weak army, outdated weapons tech, insecure planets, failed invasions.






The Acadamic Lobby

The AL is a collection of the Empires most prestigious academies uniting within one organization to realise their agenda.

Agenda: Scientific advancement

Like: Modern tech, lots of money into research

Dislike: Outdated tech, little research spending






The Explorers Guild

The EG is a group of adventureous people united through their desire to explore the unknown.

Agenda: Explore the unknown

Like: exploration vessels, map trades / updated map

dislike: no exploration, no map trades / outdated map






The Central Bank

Every empire that has some graps of montetary worth has banks. The central bank influences the empire's economy through interest rates.

Low interest rates mean faster economic growth; high interest rates mean slower economic growth.

Agenda: Fiscal responsibility, Empire's economic well being

Likes: Interest rate to match growth preventing inflation. (normal cost)

Dislikes: Growth driving prices. (increased cost)


The central bank would introduce a new mechanic into DW, Inflation.

How would inflation be represented? By higher prices.

Inflation is decreased by slower growth and a higher interest rate.


The inflation mechanic would thus represent the increasing demand of certain items as an empire's population & territory expands. (economic expansion)

Inflation would be decreased by slowing the growth pace or setting a higher interest rate. (which could be automated but also manual or suggested)

A higher interest rate mean slower growth but also the gradual normalization of prices. High interest also increases tax government revenue (lots of foreign money flowing into the banks / stocks & bonds)

Low interest represents the normal government income.

This gives the following rudimentary states (not limited too):

Low Inflation & Low Interest

- Prices are not increased due to inflation.

- Growth is not hampered by inflation or high loan interest (growth is both private & government)

- Government income from stocks & bonds is normal


Normal Inlfation & Normal Interest

- Inflation is slightly increasing costs

- Growth is slightly hampered by increased costs & increased loan interest (growth is both private & government)

- Government income from stocks & bonds is slightly increased

High Inflation & High Interest

- Inflation is noticably increasing costs

- Growth is hampered by increased costs & loand interests (growth is both private & government)

- Government income from stocks & bonds is noticably increased


There is thus a mechanic that allows the player to steer his economy.

Do you focus on cash reserves for immediate spending or will you create the ideal conditions for your private sector to grow.

Keep in mind however that reckless growth can overheat the economy leading to severe inflation!


This is a relatively simple & abstract economic model but I think it would fit right into DW.

Allowing the the empire to excercise somewhat more control over the private sector in a very realistic and immersive way.






And there are many other possibilities



How would this work in game???? This would be a tremendous amount of work!

It would be an addition yes; but it should not be nearly as much work as it sounds if you think about it.

The nessicary values are already present in the game, in the form of the private sector.

All this would do is use that data to make it more "visible" and "alive" to the player. Perhaps it would also make AI behavior more plausible??

I imagine it as an addition that would be in the form of a new diplomatic contact for the given faction / group.

Ocassionally you will get a report or request, sometimes they will make a strong case for some actions (attempted blackmail or temptation)

It would also be clear what the group's agenda is and how it is tied to certain aspects of the "living" galaxy.




Example:

A lone pirate ship has been destroying many freighters going from planet A to planet B.

After several reports a message from the traders union arrives politely informing the player that several traders have perished by pirate attacks in this area and requesting immediate action.

being a sadistic bastard I decide to tell him off and get back to planning an invasion of a neighboring star system.

Several deaths later the Trader's representative is on the horn again yelling at me for not preventing more senseless loss of life.

He somewhat inpolitely informs me of the economic consequences my actions have had (trade slows down; private sector income lower; tax income decreases slightly) and points out that the trader's union is from now on unwilling to make dangerous runs.

This means that ships will start flying in convoy due to to safety concerns. (dammit thats inneficient!)

Also: More dangerous trading runs will see less trade traffic. (outlying systems will develop more slowly)

...

I am now... slightly compelled to take action and get my civilian population in line.






What do you think? Do you like this idea of "sub-factions"

I feel it would provide a more immersive experience as well as improve the plausibility of interstellar conflicts and alliances.

It becomes logical for example for trade driven empires to join forces against pirates / monsters. (this would be awesome to see!)

Or expansionist empires to form alliances against the "weak & unworthy"

Or many other things.

It just goes to show there is far more to running an empire than the player's ego, ideas & ideals.

Ofcourse a system such as this would be somewhat bare-bones initially; growing as the community & developers generate more ideas and get more feedback.




Please note that I've tried to incorporate a mechanic that would "encourage" the player to heed the advice of his AI automation. (because its the groups that are voicing the advice now)


It would also be neat if the player could "ask" for advice by contacting the faction through the diplomacy screen.


This could replace the popup spam that we occasionally get.


< Message edited by Bartje -- 5/12/2010 12:22:05 PM >
Post #: 1
RE: proposition: Living Galaxy- Civilan Voices: The liv... - 5/10/2010 10:03:47 PM   
Dadekster

 

Posts: 141
Joined: 4/18/2010
Status: offline
I like the idea of being gentle nudged into having to do certain things as long as it does not make or break a game. Getting a certain bonus or minus would be a great way to do it depending on your race, a warlike race of course could care less about their frieghters getting popped left and right, hell they might be employed pirates as part of their 'trade income' which now that I think about it would be awesome in the vein of privaters. Seems easy enough to do, let warlike AI make a deal with pirates sort of like we have now except the AI gets a cut of the profits in exchange for safe base of operations and maybe access to tech? That would make more sense than pirates magically showing up with the latest gizmo's by themselves

But yeah, I like the idea of having the private side fleshed out a bit more other than a window showing how much money they make and cost. Whoever had to do the coding though is probably flipping out reading this if they do.

(in reply to Bartje)
Post #: 2
RE: proposition: Living Galaxy- Civilan Voices: The liv... - 5/10/2010 10:08:34 PM   
Bartje

 

Posts: 308
Joined: 4/27/2010
From: Netherlands
Status: offline
Haha yes i'd think that too.

On the other hand it would be a very nice excercise in creativity. I'd love to do it myself had I the chance. Sadly I don't know how to program games of this sort.






I very much like your idea about privateers!

It would make very much sense to let private races sponsor them much more!

There is a lot of potential in this idea.

Even peacefull races could have trade wars through pirates this way. (this is already possible I suppose; just not very "present")


Imagine getting a call from your Trade Union representative asking you if its OK to hire some pirates and "space" a few of the competitors traders as retaliation for earlier attacks or stolen profits!


That would create a really plausible reason for piracy in the DW universe!

< Message edited by Bartje -- 5/11/2010 9:25:41 AM >

(in reply to Dadekster)
Post #: 3
RE: proposition: Living Galaxy- Civilan Voices: The liv... - 5/10/2010 11:09:27 PM   
jscott991


Posts: 529
Joined: 4/23/2009
Status: offline
The game could use more social politics.

Even something like GalCiv's primitive election model would be fun, as appropriate.

Anything to interact with the economy a little more.

(in reply to Bartje)
Post #: 4
RE: proposition: Living Galaxy- Civilan Voices: The liv... - 5/11/2010 8:46:37 AM   
Bartje

 

Posts: 308
Joined: 4/27/2010
From: Netherlands
Status: offline
Woohoo! Jscott's blessing






Addendum 1- More Examples:
 
I've come up with a few more ideas for civilian or semi civilian factions / groups within the "Empire".







The Existential Rights Movement:
 
The Existential Rights Movement (TERM) is primarily concerned with protecting the fundamental rights of all "conscious" (-recognizes / reasons its own existence) life in the universe.

TERM's agenda is mainly to oppose planetary bombings, wars (unless defensive; survival is natural), To promote growth & change. (colonization etc..)

The Movement is stringently opposed to the extermination or genocide of conscious life. (unhappiness bonus empire wide depending on TERM's strenght in the Empire)

If TERM's agenda is given due attention the citizens of your Empire will feel more content in life and accepting of their place within the Universe. (happiness bonus depending on TERM's strenght in the Empire)






The Intelligence Agency:
 
The IA is composed of those shrewd and capable members entrusted with running the spying programs of your Empire.

Agenda: Proper Domestic Intelligence Defense, Information gathering concerning other empires, (in war) Sabotage / aiding the war effort.

The IA, being a government group always runs at full efficiency and therefore gives no malus if "unhappy" or structurally ignored.

If their advice is heeded however the organization will run just that bit more efficient resulting in a slightly more effective Intelligence operation. (slightly increased spies as well as lower cost)   
 





The Hive (Queen / Collective):
 
The Hive is the central dominating aspect our Empire. (if Hive government) It's will is law.

Agenda: Empire's prosperity

Being the state (player) ignorning the hive gives no detrimental malus.

Following the Hive's advice / directive may afford a small bonus however (depending on situation??)


comment: The Hive "group" is supposed to represent the unity within the Hive system of government. No other "factions" or "groups" can be present besides this one.

In essence; the player is playing the hive. The "directives" the hive would occasionally give are thus essentialy nothing more than "impulses" from certain branches of the Hive to the central brain. Heeding these impulses can be rewarding.







The Ruling Party:
 
The Ruling Party is the dominant Political faction within our Government. (perhaps its agenda changes every so many years??)

Agenda: Empire's prosperity

In essence the player represents the ruling party.

Following the advice given by certain branches of government improves the parties standing in the Empire's politics. There is no downside or malus for not doing so. (except missing the bonus)

If their advice is heeded the government runs slightly more efficient resulting in slightly higher morale as well as lower costs within the empire.
 





The Legalist Party:

The Legalist party is primarily concerned with the legal side of society.

Agenda: Legalism

The LP would like to see an international body governing the legal affairs (perhaps political and diplomatic as well??) of all interstellar races.

The LP does not like it if the Empire does not honour its agreements. (mutual defense / alliance etc..)

Heeding the LP means a slight increase in morale (people know that the government is consistent not random) as well a slight bonus to reputation. (The Empire becomes more predictable and reliable to outsiders)





The Industrial Lobby:
 
The IL is a conglomerate of industries from across the empire.

Agenda: Advancing Industrial Production & Profit

The IL is a purely civilian group that forms a political group to convince politicians to heed its agenda.

The IL likes: new planets & resources, Industrial research.

The IL dislikes: not having acces to resources, outdated Industrial tech.

Pleasing the Industrial Lobby means resource income is slightly higher / cost decrease for building stuff
 

(in reply to jscott991)
Post #: 5
RE: proposition: Living Galaxy- Civilan Voices: The liv... - 5/11/2010 9:02:00 AM   
Bartje

 

Posts: 308
Joined: 4/27/2010
From: Netherlands
Status: offline
Please note that I've tried to incorporate a mechanic that would "encourage" the player to heed the advice of his AI automation. (because its the groups that are voicing the advice now)

It would also be neat if the player could "ask" for advice by contacting the faction through the diplomacy screen.

This could replace the popup spam that we occasionally get.

(in reply to Bartje)
Post #: 6
RE: proposition: Living Galaxy- Civilan Voices: The liv... - 5/11/2010 3:28:46 PM   
Bartje

 

Posts: 308
Joined: 4/27/2010
From: Netherlands
Status: offline
Addendum 2- Even More examples:
 




The Royalists

The Royalists are staunch supporters of the Monarchy.

Agenda: Empire's prosperity

In essence the player is the monarch and these are his loyalist supporters.

Following the advice given by certain branches of government improves the parties standing in the Empire. (staying in contact with the people improves the monarch & loyalists support among the people) 
There is no downside or malus for not doing so. (except missing the bonus)

If their advice is heeded the government runs slightly more efficient resulting in slightly higher morale as well as lower costs within the empire.






The Army
 
The Army represents the voice of the top brass within the government. The army is primarily concerned with planetary forces as opposed to the navy that is space based.

Agenda: Keeping the Empire safe

Likes: Strong Army, modern weapons tech, planetary security, succesfull invasions.

dislikes: weak army, outdated weapons tech, insecure planets, failed invasions.






The Acadamic Lobby
 
The AL is a collection of the Empires most prestigious academies uniting within one organization to realise their agenda.

Agenda: Scientific advancement

Like: Modern tech, lots of money into research

Dislike: Outdated tech, little research spending






The Explorers Guild
 
The EG is a group of adventureous people united through their desire to explore the unknown.

Agenda: Explore the unknown

Like: exploration vessels, map trades / updated map

dislike: no exploration, no map trades / outdated map






(in reply to Bartje)
Post #: 7
RE: proposition: Living Galaxy- Civilan Voices: The liv... - 5/11/2010 5:38:19 PM   
Dadekster

 

Posts: 141
Joined: 4/18/2010
Status: offline
Wonder how easy it would be to take these (gonna call them PAC's ) and just mold them into the current pop ups suggesting things to do? I can easily see the The Admirality PAC suggesting like they do already they want X number of new cruisers to protect your frontiers etc. Somehow put that into a window that pops up once a month will all of these various PAC's and their demands (if any) as to prevent spam? Think it would be very cool. No idea how doable it all is though.

(in reply to Bartje)
Post #: 8
RE: proposition: Living Galaxy- Civilan Voices: The liv... - 5/11/2010 5:45:42 PM   
Bartje

 

Posts: 308
Joined: 4/27/2010
From: Netherlands
Status: offline
That's exactly what I'm hoping for!

With the added option of asking them to give a suggestion(s) as well!

Perhaps an ignore button or certain settings to specify / narrow suggestions to a certain topic could also be added.

If they don't have any suggestions the PAC (? what does it stand for?) can always reply saying: "we have no advice at this time" or "we have nothing to add at this moment" etc..

This would add so much to immersion, plus it could be used to give the AI certain influences from these sectors and perhaps make this visible to the player.

ea. the ability te extert influence on another empire's admiralty or Intelligence agency.


As for portraits.

It could be as simple as an office with a logo; though more attention here goes a long way to adding to immersion

< Message edited by Bartje -- 5/11/2010 5:46:58 PM >

(in reply to Dadekster)
Post #: 9
RE: proposition: Living Galaxy- Civilan Voices: The liv... - 5/11/2010 5:54:05 PM   
Dadekster

 

Posts: 141
Joined: 4/18/2010
Status: offline
Political Action Committe

Basically the people who whine to the people who have the power to get things done although people in governement themselves don't have them. They do all their dirty deals behind closed doors

(in reply to Bartje)
Post #: 10
RE: proposition: Living Galaxy- Civilan Voices: The liv... - 5/11/2010 5:57:24 PM   
Bartje

 

Posts: 308
Joined: 4/27/2010
From: Netherlands
Status: offline
Ha! well PAC it is then

I would really love PAC's to replace popups; I can just imagine it already! Wicked!

Any ideas for other groups?

I've thought about religious ones but that's outside of the DW scope.

A bureacratic party perhaps? representing the civil service?

Maybe something that includes "[x] Political Action Commitee" would be nice.

I'm drawing a blank at the moment.  

< Message edited by Bartje -- 5/11/2010 5:59:14 PM >

(in reply to Dadekster)
Post #: 11
RE: proposition: Living Galaxy- Civilan Voices: The liv... - 5/11/2010 6:06:36 PM   
Dadekster

 

Posts: 141
Joined: 4/18/2010
Status: offline
Not really, seems you got most of the ones that relate to the gameplay elements already. I'd even say you can merge some of them to prevent being overwhelmed by to many. Probably combine the army and navy into just the military sort of like the Pentagon. Religion would be great as we all now that's had a bit of influence on what has happened on our little rock. Imagine it on a galatic scale But it is outside what is in the game currently like you said.

(in reply to Bartje)
Post #: 12
RE: proposition: Living Galaxy- Civilan Voices: The liv... - 5/12/2010 12:21:09 PM   
Bartje

 

Posts: 308
Joined: 4/27/2010
From: Netherlands
Status: offline
I've had another idea to expand this even more into the economic side of strategy!






The Central Bank
 
Every empire that has some graps of montetary worth has banks. The central bank influences the empire's economy through interest rates.

Low interest rates mean faster economic growth; high interest rates mean slower economic growth.

Agenda: Fiscal responsibility, Empire's economic well being

Likes: Interest rate to match growth preventing inflation. (normal cost)

Dislikes: Growth driving prices. (increased cost)


The central bank would introduce a new mechanic into DW, Inflation.

How would inflation be represented? By higher prices.

Inflation is decreased by slower growth and a higher interest rate.


The inflation mechanic would thus represent the increasing demand of certain items as an empire's population & territory expands. (economic expansion)

Inflation would be decreased by slowing the growth pace or setting a higher interest rate. (which could be automated but also manual or suggested)

A higher interest rate mean slower growth but also the gradual normalization of prices. High interest also increases tax government revenue (lots of foreign money flowing into the banks / stocks & bonds)

Low interest represents the normal government income.

This gives the following rudimentary states (not limited too):

Low Inflation & Low Interest
 
- Prices are not increased due to inflation.

- Growth is not hampered by inflation or high loan interest (growth is both private & government)

- Government income from stocks & bonds is normal

 
Normal Inlfation & Normal Interest
 
- Inflation is slightly increasing costs

- Growth is slightly hampered by increased costs & increased loan interest (growth is both private & government)

- Government income from stocks & bonds is slightly increased
 
High Inflation & High Interest
 
- Inflation is noticably increasing costs

- Growth is hampered by increased costs & loand interests (growth is both private & government)

- Government income from stocks & bonds is noticably increased








There is thus a mechanic that allows the player to steer his economy.

Do you focus on cash reserves for immediate spending or will you create the ideal conditions for your private sector to grow.

Keep in mind however that reckless growth can overheat the economy leading to severe inflation! 


This is a relatively simple & abstract economic model but I think it would fit right into DW.

Allowing the the empire to excercise somewhat more control over the private sector in a very realistic and immersive way.


Any comments or suggestions? Things I missed in the model ?

(in reply to Dadekster)
Post #: 13
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