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proposition: Living Galaxy- Institutions: birth, growth and death

 
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proposition: Living Galaxy- Institutions: birth, growth... - 5/8/2010 8:40:41 PM   
Bartje

 

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A major component of this idea is the premise that reputation value can be made more important throughout the game (or less, depending on how institutionalization is progressing) to distant empires. As opposed to immediate neighbours. (who'm generally always should be more or less concerned with your reputation as a neighbour...)



I would like to see the optional development of galactic institutions

Think of it as a founding of the UN, the prelude and the aftermath.

Stages:

1- Galactic Sovereignty: All races are out for themselves

This is the intitial stage at the beginning of exploration.

It is a state of political realism; there are no rules in galactic politics except those agreed upon.... for as long as you trust the other to keep his word.

Reputation is local and hardly relevant to anyone except immediate neighbours.



2- Galactic Council: In the face of conflict between sovereign empires there is need for Diplomacy (at least for the peacefuller races) (Meeting of Nations with nonbinding votes (unenforced ordinances))

Political realism, treachery and backstabbing are dangerous and unreliable tools. The more peaceful races realise this and seek to provide a Galactic forum.

A place where diplomacy can be conducted, where reputation matters. (since everyone knows eachother and .... gossips...)

Reputation becomes a concern at this stage; though not a very pressing one.



3- Galactic Institution: In order to arbitrate conflicts neutrally an institution is created which serves as the forum of galactic diplomacy. (Council of Nations with binding votes) (enforced ordinances, e.a. if you disobay a council law you are thrown out; trade with council races reduces; war's against you can be declared easily)

The Galactic forum has been given teeth and a rod to smash unruly children with!

The more aggresive members grumble but dare not withdraw because of the great benefits membership offers; the great risks upsetting this community and institution brings.

Reputation is very, very important in this stage.

If only they could find common ground amongst each other against this institutional behemoth......



4-Galactic (Political) Union : Economies & Politics have become so interwoven that war has become unthinkable. The only way forth is unity. But who will lead this body of nations? --> Diplomatic Victory for election winner.

The final voices of opposition have fallen silent and a new political reality has dawned.

Who will be found worthy of the honour of leading this galactic government??

Reputation is very, very, very important in this stage.

Revolting seems far fetched but is not entirely within the realm of fantasy yet; unless a (really) strong leader is elected ofcourse




This allows the Galactic Diplomatic setting to grow; the New institution can be created and destroyed only to be reborn again.

Aggressive races will despise it, but will they be able to resist it?

It is the brainchild of more peacefull (civilized?) and diplomatic races..



Such a body would also be uniquely qualified to serve as a rallying banner against an extra-galactic invasion


Ofcourse in some games there might be no such body to rally under.....

What will become of the galaxy then, I wonder....





Addendum 1 - Territorial Disputes (Cyprus Style ):



Colonization in claimed systems is a political faux pas in DW and rightly so.



There are many strategies for resolving these issues but the more interesting and perhaps realistic is the possibility of creation an independent "buffer" state to govern the contested territory. (with strong links to both claimants)



This is thus a possibility for the intergalactic diplomacy enhancement proposed in this topic. An intervention by the Galactic Council (whatever it would be called) to maintain the peace and find an agreeable solution. (Give to A, Give to B, make independent, Become protected Council territory?)



This would open up an entirely new strategical approach.



-Will you play the peacefull liberal dove that aims for socio-economic dominance?



-Will you play the machiavellian prince of terror (sociopath!!) that shrewdly manipulates his opponents?



-Will you play the hawkish militairy genius that conquers his opponents through clever use of force & Diplomacy?



Ofcourse nations would also have the option to undermine the Galactic peacekeeping body thusly.



Historical precedent is the annexation of Austria, the intimidation-dismanteling and semi-annexation of Czecho Slovakia. The Cyprus conflict between Greece & Turkey.



Also: The vassal State of Transylvania between Hungary & the Ottoman Empire.

Modern example is the state of Bosnia-Herzegovina between Bosnia & Serbia


Many others probably


Addendum 2-Casus Belli & Just war

This part is mostly aimed at stages 2 and beyond and presumes the existence of an instellar forum or community of some sort.

Having developed relations with races in the galaxy reputation has become more important.

This means that war is not an activity that can be waged on a whim or because of a perceived slight anymore without hurting reputation.

This is the advent the Casus Belli & Just war doctrine.

When does not harm reputation?

- Formal Declaration of War because of the nessecity of expansion / resources (a refusal to share by someone for example)

- Self defense

- Appropriate use of force (sparing civilians; don't enter into total war)

- Using diplomacy first and force second

- Diplomatic Subjugation



What harms reputation?

- Surprise Attacks

- Aggression

- Total War

- Harming Civilians

- Annexation





These mechanics are already present in DW though not very "prominently".

The interstellar community would be a great way of pointing out to the player & confronting him with his "anti-social" behavior.





PS: Some of you may notice it is influenced by the development of the European Union / United Nations; though it is also rooted heavily in political science. (which aptly uses "game" theory to model these things) (game theory: e.a. I help you, you help me, we build trust. Or I help, you deceive & hurt me, I learn not to trust you etc....)



Any thoughts or comments???






< Message edited by Bartje -- 5/11/2010 8:00:29 PM >
Post #: 1
RE: proposition: Living Galaxy- Institutions: birth, gr... - 5/8/2010 9:00:00 PM   
Wade1000


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Well, aggressive races should be able to form or take over their own union(Axis) to focus on their form of goals.

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RE: proposition: Living Galaxy- Institutions: birth, gr... - 5/8/2010 9:02:13 PM   
Bartje

 

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How would such an Institution be ..... instituted or developed??


Through treaties.

The very foundation of both law (contract, hey, i'm a law student ) as well as Diplomacy (that's a deal...)

How do I envision this ??


Check a box at the start of the game called: "Living Galaxy: The birth of Institutions"

This adds a treaty element to the diplomacy screen. (see treaties this race is part of)

As well as the possibility to solicit membership into such a treaty as well as seceding from a treaty. (or offer someone membership; perhaps as a peace condition for certain aggresive races???)

Other races may agree to become part of such agreements and so the whole proces evolves..... or devolves into galactic war!

< Message edited by Bartje -- 5/8/2010 9:06:28 PM >

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RE: proposition: Living Galaxy- Institutions: birth, gr... - 5/8/2010 9:04:26 PM   
Bartje

 

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They definetly should be able to try and squirm away from such an institution.

I've included that option in the proposition in the form of allying against said institution.


Why?


Because in essence the aggresive races oppose diplomacy.


They only ally out of a machiavelian sense of political realism. For their own survival and good.

Thus they would ally themselves to oppose such a galactic peace movement if they think they can (perceived weaknes) conquer it and get rid of all the weakling peace lovers.



< Message edited by Bartje -- 5/8/2010 9:13:27 PM >

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RE: proposition: Living Galaxy- Institutions: birth, gr... - 5/8/2010 9:49:46 PM   
Dadekster

 

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I like it. I would just like that you don't have to be part of the political landscape and remain independent so to say. You will have a very hard time making deals (trade deals, non-aggression pacts, mutual aid, etc) with races that are part of the said political process however as a trade off but at least you don't have to thread the needle either. I think that might be a good solution for aggressive races who gain more by conquest then by better trade routes etc. Besides aggressive races don't do the whole roundtable thing well. Course an aggressive races picking on a political party member also runs the risk of getting dog piled by the rest of the political group. To me this opens all sorts of possibilities in the game giving reasons for the way races act. At the moment it feels very random with the biggest thing races are worried about is trading tech and making sure nothing with more than one gun is infringing on their territory.

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RE: proposition: Living Galaxy- Institutions: birth, gr... - 5/8/2010 9:55:32 PM   
Bartje

 

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Exactly!!


Staying independent is an option but it has its pro's and cons.

You can actively support institution building or you can try to prevent it....

It all comes down to what kind of framework you want in the Galactic Political landscape.


Or as Political science calls them:

Political Realism (Machiavelli; war, backstabbing, weapon stockpiling)  ---> for aggressive and (very) unpredictable races perhaps??

VS

Political Liberalism (Institutions; peace, building, growth, development etc..) ---> for relatively peacefull and predictable races??



This system could add Sooooo Muuuuuch depth to Diplomacy!

Motivations everywhere & all around! IMmersion!!


< Message edited by Bartje -- 5/9/2010 6:39:30 PM >

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RE: proposition: Living Galaxy- Institutions: birth, gr... - 5/9/2010 1:15:49 AM   
Shark7


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The add in step #5: Some megalomaniac comes in and tears the whole thing down, completing the circle as you now have to start back at #1 again.

And I'm an optimist.

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RE: proposition: Living Galaxy- Institutions: birth, gr... - 5/9/2010 3:40:39 AM   
Dadekster

 

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Think that's called an expansion

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RE: proposition: Living Galaxy- Institutions: birth, gr... - 5/9/2010 9:45:12 AM   
Bartje

 

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It is only natural

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RE: proposition: Living Galaxy- Institutions: birth, gr... - 5/9/2010 12:20:31 PM   
Ranbir


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Something like this, with all the detail it needs, will completely turn the normal diplomacy expectation in strategy games on its head, which will be FANTASTIC.

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RE: proposition: Living Galaxy- Institutions: birth, gr... - 5/9/2010 1:16:50 PM   
Bartje

 

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EXACTLY!

It completely fits within the whole "living galaxy" premise. (A living; Evolving galaxy that is!!)

And it draws paralels to real world history to boot.

You could see an Axis and Allies Conflict; A cold war type conflict etc.. The possibilities are almost endless.

I would really love to see this mechanic implemented.

I really feel it would add depth to the diplomatic side of the game while forever setting Distant Worlds apart from other strategy games.
 
Perhaps a new golden standard in game development

(in reply to Ranbir)
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RE: proposition: Living Galaxy- Institutions: birth, gr... - 5/9/2010 6:47:29 PM   
Bartje

 

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Alert! Alert! - - - - This is a GNN breaking news Report!




from: The offices of the Galactic Security Council

to: The general public

concerning: Increases in sectarian action





Brave citizens of the Galaxy; today is a sad day.

Jscott and Fishman have allied themselves in a futile effort to resist a new galactic order!

They refuse to acknowledge the dawning of a new reality and cling to the remnants of a troubled past.

These transgressions go against the very principles of liberty and fun that this body was created to propagate!


Will you stand with your government against these malcontents or will you join this new Axis of the Jscott and Fishman's??





...


....


...





< Message edited by Bartje -- 5/10/2010 11:05:17 AM >

(in reply to Bartje)
Post #: 12
RE: proposition: Living Galaxy- Institutions: birth, gr... - 5/10/2010 9:05:11 PM   
Bartje

 

Posts: 308
Joined: 4/27/2010
From: Netherlands
Status: offline
I just got another Idea for this concept!


Addendum 1 - Territorial Disputes (Cyprus Style ):
 
Colonization in claimed systems is a political faux pas in DW and rightly so.

There are many strategies for resolving these issues but the more interesting and perhaps realistic is the possibility of creation an independent "buffer" state to govern the contested territory. (with strong links to both claimants)

This is thus a possibility for the intergalactic diplomacy enhancement proposed in this topic. An intervention by the Galactic Council (whatever it would be called)  to maintain the peace and find an agreeable solution. (Give to A, Give to B, make independent, Become protected Council territory?)

This would open up an entirely new strategical approach.

-Will you play the peacefull liberal dove that aims for socio-economic dominance?

-Will you play the machiavellian prince of terror (sociopath!!) that shrewdly manipulates his opponents?

-Will you play the hawkish militairy genius that conquers his opponents through clever use of force & Diplomacy?

Ofcourse nations would also have the option to undermine the Galactic peacekeeping body thusly.

Historical precedent is the annexation of Austria, the intimidation-dismanteling and semi-annexation of Czecho Slovakia. The Cyprus conflict between Greece & Turkey.

Also: The vassal State of Transylvania between Hungary & the Ottoman Empire.

Modern example is the state of Bosnia-Herzegovina between Bosnia & Serbia

Many others probably




< Message edited by Bartje -- 5/10/2010 9:06:26 PM >

(in reply to Bartje)
Post #: 13
RE: proposition: Living Galaxy- Institutions: birth, gr... - 5/10/2010 9:23:38 PM   
Dadekster

 

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I wouldn't mind seeing some more options in regards to disputed systems atm. Right now I feel it is a all or nothing deal. Either cough up your colony in the system to prevent an eventual war or go to war over it.

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RE: proposition: Living Galaxy- Institutions: birth, gr... - 5/11/2010 1:56:45 PM   
Bartje

 

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Do you have any other ideas on how to deal with contested systems?

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RE: proposition: Living Galaxy- Institutions: birth, gr... - 5/11/2010 7:58:41 PM   
Bartje

 

Posts: 308
Joined: 4/27/2010
From: Netherlands
Status: offline
Addendum 2-Casus Belli & Just war

This part is mostly aimed at stages 2 and beyond and presumes the existence of an instellar forum or community of some sort.

Having developed relations with races in the galaxy reputation has become more important.

This means that war is not an activity that can be waged on a whim or because of a perceived slight anymore without hurting reputation.

This is the advent the Casus Belli & Just war doctrine.

When does not harm reputation?

- Formal Declaration of War because of the nessecity of expansion / resources (a refusal to share by someone for example)

- Self defense

- Appropriate use of force (sparing civilians; don't enter into total war)

- Using diplomacy first and force second

- Diplomatic Subjugation



What harms reputation?

- Surprise Attacks

- Aggression

- Total War

- Harming Civilians

- Annexation





These mechanics are already present in DW though not very "prominently".

The interstellar community would be a great way of pointing out to the player & confronting him with his "anti-social" behavior.



< Message edited by Bartje -- 5/11/2010 7:59:57 PM >

(in reply to Bartje)
Post #: 16
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