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Wiuthdraw LCUs? - 4/30/2010 12:47:58 AM   
ETF


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Ok how does one do it? Is there a button to click when the time comes?

Thx

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RE: Wiuthdraw LCUs? - 4/30/2010 2:03:14 AM   
Bullwinkle58


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quote:

ORIGINAL: ETF

Ok how does one do it? Is there a button to click when the time comes?

Thx


They just go poof, and are magically gone. At some points in the game you are sure to wish they needed a button or an applet of a hand waving goodbye. . .

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RE: Wiuthdraw LCUs? - 4/30/2010 3:10:56 AM   
topeverest


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If you want to disband something that is not due to withdrawal, take it to a command HQ with 90K supply and you can disband. You also can take it to one of a handful of cities and disband even if it does not contain a HQ. San Fancisco...etc.

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RE: Wiuthdraw LCUs? - 4/30/2010 1:29:11 PM   
Rainer

 

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The poster is talking about LCUs, not Air Groups.
There is no way you can disband LCUs in the game as far as I know.

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RE: Wiuthdraw LCUs? - 4/30/2010 1:33:29 PM   
castor troy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Rainer

The poster is talking about LCUs, not Air Groups.
There is no way you can disband LCUs in the game as far as I know.



you can disband LCUs in the national home bases, like Sydney for example. If it´s a restricted LCU then the enemy gets victory points for you disbanding the LCU, if it´s a non restricted unit then the enemy does not get vp for it (if it´s working as designed which I don´t know as I don´t disband any units). A good reason to disband a unit would be to get the devices into the pool to fill out other units.

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RE: Wiuthdraw LCUs? - 4/30/2010 1:52:02 PM   
Rainer

 

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Thanks Castor for correcting me.
I should have looked more closely.
The "Disband Unit" Button is at the lower left corner of the LCU screen (stupid me ).
The screenshot is at San Francisco.







EDIT: I think it is important not to confuse Newbies with unsubstantiated statements. That's why I am sorry and apologize. And again, thanks to castor troy for clearing this up.

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< Message edited by Rainer -- 4/30/2010 2:02:20 PM >


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RE: Wiuthdraw LCUs? - 4/30/2010 3:14:04 PM   
Canoerebel


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Usually this feature isn't a very big deal - who cares if a Seabee unit at Palmyra or a Regimental Combat Team stuck at San Diego for lack of transports vanish.  You won't even notice they're gone.

But sometimes this feature will bite you in the butt.  Like when the Marine parachute batallions all go "poof."  You might have them nicely arranged at some forward island bases set to hit some undefended but strategically important Japanese bases.  You click on the transport squadronds to order them to carry troops...but the troops have vanished into thin air.  And if you haven't been checking the troop withdrawal button, you're flummoxed.

Now, there are anal-retentive players who live to check things like the troop withdrawal button, but for those of us who are a bit overwhelmed with micromanagement in "lesser" games like the Operational Art of War , this thought is noxious. 

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RE: Wiuthdraw LCUs? - 4/30/2010 3:22:00 PM   
Bullwinkle58


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

Usually this feature isn't a very big deal - who cares if a Seabee unit at Palmyra or a Regimental Combat Team stuck at San Diego for lack of transports vanish.  You won't even notice they're gone.

But sometimes this feature will bite you in the butt.  Like when the Marine parachute batallions all go "poof."  You might have them nicely arranged at some forward island bases set to hit some undefended but strategically important Japanese bases.  You click on the transport squadronds to order them to carry troops...but the troops have vanished into thin air.  And if you haven't been checking the troop withdrawal button, you're flummoxed.

Now, there are anal-retentive players who live to check things like the troop withdrawal button, but for those of us who are a bit overwhelmed with micromanagement in "lesser" games like the Operational Art of War , this thought is noxious. 


Being the King of All Non-Anal-Retentives (IOW, slack-jawed, with my shirt-tail hanging out) this is what I meant by "you may wish for a button or an applet." I didn't run into problems with paras, but in the general Burma theater some pretty major units go away on you, and they might just be anchoring a thrust or a seige at the time. I don't always read Ops reports every turn (big surprise), so LCUs can be home eating Corn Flakes while I still assume they're attacking Japanese ramparts with bloody abandon.

I much prefer the nagging over late ships and air units.

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RE: Wiuthdraw LCUs? - 4/30/2010 3:25:30 PM   
Bullwinkle58


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Rainer

Thanks Castor for correcting me.
I should have looked more closely.
The "Disband Unit" Button is at the lower left corner of the LCU screen (stupid me ).
The screenshot is at San Francisco.


I did not do the following in my game, as I didn't understand the Disband feature at that time, but it can be a valuable thing in early Allied months. You can shore up low device pools by selectively disbanding units in order to rush replacements to other units. You have to be careful, and you can't disband a lot of the units, but you can help yourself in those early post-PH months if you make the trade-offs.

I'd be interested in hearing from others who actualy read the manual before beginning their games as to whether this tactic helps very much.

< Message edited by Bullwinkle58 -- 4/30/2010 3:26:24 PM >


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RE: Wiuthdraw LCUs? - 4/30/2010 3:27:55 PM   
Sardaukar


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This got me quite badly in my first Campaign vs. IJ AI. AI invaded Diego Garcia (might have been other island too, don't remember, but that region) and I promply counter-invaded with one brigade. I did notice that withdrawal date was close, but thought I could make it.

Brigade landed, took back the base and started to wipe out IJ landing force. Just day or 2 before Japanese troops would have been annihilated, brigade withdrawal date came...remaining Japanese promptly attacked and captured the island again (since that brigade was only unit I had landed)!  That's what you get when not concentrating properly!



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RE: Wiuthdraw LCUs? - 4/30/2010 3:37:35 PM   
Bullwinkle58


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sardaukar

This got me quite badly in my first Campaign vs. IJ AI. AI invaded Diego Garcia (might have been other island too, don't remember, but that region) and I promply counter-invaded with one brigade. I did notice that withdrawal date was close, but thought I could make it.

Brigade landed, took back the base and started to wipe out IJ landing force. Just day or 2 before Japanese troops would have been annihilated, brigade withdrawal date came...remaining Japanese promptly attacked and captured the island again (since that brigade was only unit I had landed)!  That's what you get when not concentrating properly!




Wow, that's bad! It pays to read the fine print. (And I didn't know the AI ever went for Diego. Ouch. OTOH, I have photos of the "CD installations" at Diego G. from my time there in 1985. Two 2nd graders with a slingshot would have been sufficient.)

However, I must admit a guilty pleasure of my own. Sometimes (OK, often) when I see a withdrawl date 45 days away or so, I think with glee "Cannon fodder!!!" That unit is going to, as current management-speak has it, "Recieve an opportunity to excel." Purple Hearts by the bucket. Don't ever tell the staff weenie you're already thinking about clean sheets and time with Mama. Short-timers are goners.

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RE: Wiuthdraw LCUs? - 4/30/2010 4:46:09 PM   
Alfred

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58


I did not do the following in my game, as I didn't understand the Disband feature at that time, but it can be a valuable thing in early Allied months. You can shore up low device pools by selectively disbanding units in order to rush replacements to other units. You have to be careful, and you can't disband a lot of the units, but you can help yourself in those early post-PH months if you make the trade-offs.

I'd be interested in hearing from others who actualy read the manual before beginning their games as to whether this tactic helps very much.


Based on his posts in his AAR (and in other threads) Andy Mac certainly believes very strongly in disbanding units to free up devices. However after taking into account the following considerations, I am not so certain that disbanding is really all that useful.

1. Early war shortage of devices is a problem primarily afflicting British, Indian and Australian LCUs. Early in the war, Australian units are not too often operating in areas where garrison requirements exist. British and Indian units on the other hand are operating in Burma and India where there are garrison requirements. Irrespective of how strong or weak a battalion is, it can't be subdivided. A weak battalion (say one with only 20 Ass Val) is just as valuable and useful as a strong battalion (one with 40 Ass Val) when it comes to garrisoning rear area bases.

2. As a generalisation, one should always create the British Empire divisions out of the at start disparate broken down sub units. This is because these divisions, with their divisional artillery parks integrated, have far greater staying and hitting power than fighting with the brigades side by side. Consequently, the Allied player does not have a surfeit of units to place in all those rear areas which need to have troops to guard against enemy paradrops or simply to maintain LOCs. Just because a base does not have a formal requirement for a garrison, it does not follow that it should be left vacant of soldiers.

3. Devices with low build rates slow down the accumulation of a massive offensive force if the objective is to attack in force on a wide front. However the build rate is not so impossibly low as to prevent the build up of a selective force. It just means that (a) only some units should have replacements turned on and (b) these offensive units may have to go onto the frontlines at only 90-95% of TOE because a particular device (say 25 pounder guns) is in short supply.

Alfred

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RE: Wiuthdraw LCUs? - 4/30/2010 4:54:23 PM   
Bullwinkle58


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Very good analysis, Alfred. I tend to think of USA units first. I began with all replacements off (and paid for it pre-patch when I had USMC problems when year-designated squads stopped replacing.) I didn't look to boost device pools by disbanding because I didn't pay attention to that capability. I will in my next game.

I agree that the western-map forces, especially Indian, are flaccid in 1942. The AI doens't pull deep para drops as a human might, but garrison requirements are still a series of trade-offs.

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RE: Wiuthdraw LCUs? - 5/1/2010 3:59:14 PM   
Dili

 

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I think the withdrawing should be by comparable unit type and not a specific one, same for ships and air groups. It is more realistic, also with that this problems wouldn't happen.

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RE: Wiuthdraw LCUs? - 5/1/2010 4:27:19 PM   
Andy Mac

 

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One of the small inconsistenceies we encountered on devpt that Joe has previously commented on is that each of the teams basically designed its own withdraw/disband systems

As I am not a micromanager I designed the land systemt o basically be poof and its gone no grief no hassle

Re disbanding devices for pools yes I designed all the CW replacement rates for devices assuming some units would be cannibalised.

Again I was brought in to do CW LCU's where that was the case and its a feature thats really only of concern to CW units.

I would never disband a US or Japanese units only really CW units are hit by it and only really for the first year or so when kit is tight

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RE: Wiuthdraw LCUs? - 5/1/2010 7:25:50 PM   
Bullwinkle58


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Dili

I think the withdrawing should be by comparable unit type and not a specific one, same for ships and air groups. It is more realistic, also with that this problems wouldn't happen.


But, you'd get into micromanagement hell trying to find an exact match, and in some cases there isn't an exact match anyway (QE). You could write code to search the OOB and offer closest-match, but why? It's easier to just withdraw the historic unit. Or, play with withdrawls off if it's a PITA.

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RE: Wiuthdraw LCUs? - 5/4/2010 8:02:24 AM   
olorin42

 

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What about withdrawing the West Coast restricted ground units? Is there any down side?

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RE: Wiuthdraw LCUs? - 5/4/2010 1:44:53 PM   
Bullwinkle58


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quote:

ORIGINAL: olorin42

What about withdrawing the West Coast restricted ground units? Is there any down side?


This would be a matter of opinion. Many/most of them cannot be disbanded of course, and I think most the rest are necessary to smoothly getting convoys out of there. You aren't really ever short of base force devices IMO. If you're playing PBEM, stripping the WC of real defenses might invite an invasion as well.

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