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To trade or not to trade

 
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To trade or not to trade - 4/10/2010 8:02:26 AM   
HsojVvad

 

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I went to the diplomacy screen and I just noticed that some people are upset with me that I will not trade them Zentabia Fluid with them. I went UHGH? I never refused then I noticed that there is a box at the bottom that says Trade our Zentabia Fluid with them. Well it's not checked. So I am wundering, should I trade this stuff or not?

It says it's very rare, so I am wudnering what is the benifits if I do trade. Of coarse I would have better relations, so then I should ask what are the negatives if I do trade.

If I don't trade what are the positives and negatives by not trading?
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RE: To trade or not to trade - 4/10/2010 8:06:55 AM   
thiosk


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Theres a box that lets me embargo SPECIFIC GOODS?!

WHERE IS THIS BOX

I DEMAND TO CLICK IT

I will ASSUME that not trading Extremely Rare goods would make you Extremely Unpopular Extremely Quickly.

If you did that to me, I would bomb your colonies with high-yield nuclear weapons.

Nothing personal.

< Message edited by thiosk -- 4/10/2010 8:07:44 AM >

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RE: To trade or not to trade - 4/10/2010 8:42:07 AM   
SiempreCiego

 

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Hi Davor,

funily I was in the same situation last night.
If you trade these 'extremely rare' items you are helping a competiting empire as these items contribute alot to the development index. I htink Z fluid add like 35% to planetary development.
If you don't trade it there is a diplomatic penalty range fron -6 to -21 from what I could see.


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RE: To trade or not to trade - 4/10/2010 12:33:44 PM   
BigWolf


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What I find funny is, you automatically get the penalty from every empire, despite them never asking for it
So, because you have something valuable, you MUST automatically give it away?  I don't think so


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RE: To trade or not to trade - 4/10/2010 12:47:40 PM   
SiempreCiego

 

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I agree.

But I guess it similar to oil or say uranium. IF you decide not to trade these important products, which benefit development, to certain countries they they might be pissed.

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RE: To trade or not to trade - 4/10/2010 4:15:30 PM   
BigWolf


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quote:

ORIGINAL: SiempreCiego

I agree.

But I guess it similar to oil or say uranium. IF you decide not to trade these important products, which benefit development, to certain countries they they might be pissed.


But, when put into the game, these aren't "Luxuries", but what would be considered "Strategic"

It's like a 3 year old throwing a temper tantrum because they can't have a toy they want, vs. the same 3 year old throwing one because you won't give him any food
The first is a luxury, the second is an essential
So are the AI empires made up of 3 year olds?

Not sure if my point is coming across with that example though

But basically, if the resource was key to their survival, then I would understand them not thinking highly of you because you aren't helping them survive
But Luxuries are there to help, and aren't key (only to the point of providing an advantage), so if I want to keep it both the advantage and luxury too myself, tough bloody luck, you don't "NEED" it
Also, if anything, only friends should be annoyed by it regardless... of course I'm not going to trade valuable luxuries to my sworn enemy, so why would you care about it? You wouldn't start trading it with me, we hate each other for other reasons

< Message edited by BigWolf -- 4/10/2010 4:18:34 PM >


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RE: To trade or not to trade - 4/10/2010 4:20:21 PM   
Shark7


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Is this the reason you get the huge negative modifier in the diplomacy screen that says (We covet your colonies and resources -XX)? If it is, that might explain why my allies are upset with me...if we aren't allied...well quite frankly, I don't give a ....

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RE: To trade or not to trade - 4/10/2010 4:28:44 PM   
BigWolf


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Actually, I think that one shown if you're sharing systems

It's more along the lines of "You refuse to trade valuable resources" or something to that effect
Even though they've never asked for it, so technically you've never refused


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RE: To trade or not to trade - 4/10/2010 4:52:33 PM   
Interesting

 

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The reputation penalty for not sharing one of the three extremelly rare luxury resources, that once a colony have acess to increase their development by 50%, is just a modicum penalty.

You can share it with them and they will get 50% more revenue for whatever colony their AI freighters take your resource too, if its their 300K GDP Capital, this means you just gave them 150K extra GDP. The more you get of that resource, more you will have to trade and more AI colonies will benefit from it.

Eventually, if 3 AI Big Colonies have access to it, this might mean an extra 500K GDP to them, think about that!

the "we covet your resources, etc" happens with your close neighboors when both the player and AI feels "the space is not big enough for we both", specially if you "shared" a system with them in the past, or if they lost colonies to you with revolution I think. (this last bit, probably unrelated)


In regards to sharing stuff with the AI right now:
*No sharing of 3 +50% development resources, except for stupid Allies that will became your pawns (stress test the AI races to discover their game mechanics and see who you can take advantage off)



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RE: To trade or not to trade - 4/10/2010 5:39:59 PM   
HsojVvad

 

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Thanks Interesting for explaining that. I was about to share it with them, but I thought I better not. So if I shared them that would mean they would get more money? Is that because of the luxury I have? Is it only Zentabia Fluid that gives other empires money, or are there others, or all of the luxuries?

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RE: To trade or not to trade - 4/10/2010 6:18:49 PM   
Interesting

 

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If you share it with them, each time their freighters come, they will buy it from you (you will get money from it, but its negligible) and take it back to any of their Colonies with Starports.

Once the extremelly rare luxury (there are 3 extremelly rare ones wich give "strategic" benefits) reaches their Colony, their colony development will sky rocket upwards 50%!

The value of a Colony follows this formula: population x development= value. And a % of the value gets in their hands based on taxes.

If you DONT TRADE it with them, there will be more for you, for your own colonies. You cant send a fraction of it to all your colonies, because thats handled by the PRIVATE, so depending how far that luxury is from your StarPort Colonies (it seems only colonies with starport matter for this) you might not be able to make it "reach" your colonies.

You cant control wich colonies get benefitted directly.

I wish we had more control over it resources.

If my enemy needs chromium and he doesnt have sources, I should be able to prevent him from buying chromium from me. Not just those 3 extremelly rare luxuries. Same thing with all luxuries, each luxury increases development by 10%, so any close neighboors will end getting the same development level as you, because they will leech your luxuries sources by trading (and this is done automatically behind your back unless you set up a trade embargo, but this is too harsh of a measure, not enough fine tunning) and what benefits the player gets? "The raw price of the luxury", wich is negligible compared to the bulk ammount of GDP each luxury type will generate (10% more development).

Thats why I would like to prevent other factions from acessing all my luxuries. But these 3 extremelly rare luxuries, work the same way, except they increase development by 50% each! Godlike stuff.

Benefits of sharing? not having the slightly negative reputation and the raw price of the luxury (insignificant, even it says the price is 332,3, while everything else costs 0,5, because whatever colony gets it will generate MUCH MUCH more income than what you get, so you are helping them more than helping you)

Best not to share, only exceptions would be those you have strong alliance/dependency and you actually want to boost them to use them as tools in wars or something.


< Message edited by Interesting -- 4/10/2010 6:21:10 PM >

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RE: To trade or not to trade - 4/10/2010 6:28:27 PM   
Flaviusx


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I play this by ear. Sometimes, it will be necessary to maintain relations. Most of the time, it won't. Sometimes, you'll be happy to see those relations plummet since you're planning on going to war with them anyways.

Look at your diplomatic screen, note where you stand with each empire, and act accordingly.

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RE: To trade or not to trade - 4/10/2010 6:30:53 PM   
HsojVvad

 

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Thanks Interesting for that good explanation. Since this is the begining of the game, I think I will not share it and give them a boost. After all they all refused to have a trade treaty with me, so why should I share it they didn't want to trade in the first place. How ironic eh?

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RE: To trade or not to trade - 4/10/2010 8:26:00 PM   
Resan

 

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What if I share for a while, can I then stop? And thus see the AI's economy crash when his tax income falls.

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RE: To trade or not to trade - 4/10/2010 8:33:31 PM   
HsojVvad

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Resan

What if I share for a while, can I then stop? And thus see the AI's economy crash when his tax income falls.

Oh that is just nasty. I can't see why you can't do this. You trade let their economy go up and hope they make lots of ships and then stop trading it so they have a huge -income supply then. Let them be in the red. But will AI make more ships then with more money?

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RE: To trade or not to trade - 4/10/2010 10:43:04 PM   
taltamir

 

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i like that system just the way it is... those super rare resources are unbelievably good and provide massive empire bonuses. Not trading it is bound to piss off other empires... and frankly, you shouldn't trade it because its just too good.

actually the checkbox is for ALL your super rare resources, you can have more then one...
it works in reverse too, sometimes you will see -relationship, they have a <resource> they will not trade to us

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RE: To trade or not to trade - 4/10/2010 10:47:10 PM   
HsojVvad

 

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ah so that it said a certian race didn`t want to trade it`s spice with me. Then later it said it would. Now I understand. Thanks taltamir.

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RE: To trade or not to trade - 4/10/2010 11:02:10 PM   
taltamir

 

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ok the 3 types of super resources are:
Zentabia Fluid
Loros Fruit
Korabbian Spice

all are listed under the "resources" tab in the galactopedia.
all have the same result, any planet supplied with them gets a 50% development bonus. (increasing its development over 100%.)
which is very good, if you trade it, less of your planets get it as its being shipped to other empires.

that being said, when I think of it some more, it might be acceptable to trade some if you are already doing very well since its not like its an empire wide bonus or a tech bonus. but AFAIK it will improve morale on planets and thus decrease their chances of revolt. And you want your planets not revolting and other empires to revolt as often as possible.

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RE: To trade or not to trade - 4/11/2010 7:18:18 AM   
Gertjan

 

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I think the game is not balances in this respect, cleary there are no good reasons to trade these rare goods. Could this be changed in a future update?

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RE: To trade or not to trade - 4/11/2010 7:39:49 AM   
taltamir

 

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why should it be changed so there is reason to trade the ultimate strategic resources?
Are most powerful countries selling enriched uranium?

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RE: To trade or not to trade - 4/11/2010 9:43:55 AM   
Gertjan

 

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They are to friends I think. China helped Pakistan to get nuclear weapons. So did US with Israel (I suppose)

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RE: To trade or not to trade - 4/11/2010 8:19:19 PM   
taltamir

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Gertjan

They are to friends I think. China helped Pakistan to get nuclear weapons. So did US with Israel (I suppose)


Can't israel achieve anything without people attributing it to the USA? Anyways, there has never been a single record or indication that the USA provided israel with nukes. Although there was a high amount of jewish nuclear physicists involved in the manhetten project and germany's nuclear project (before hitler canceled it for being a "jewish affair"). Anyways, nukes are not that complicated and their basic operation is common knowledge today. The problem is more in manufacturing
As for china and Pakistan, first I heard of it but I seriously doubt that... it would be quite insane of them. Then again, china has done insane things before.

Iran is a more interesting case. AFAIK they were getting help from north korea and russia. However that help did not consist of enriched uranium. or even any uranium. It focuses on helping them build enrichment plants (technically those are purification, enrichment is a misleading term)

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RE: To trade or not to trade - 4/11/2010 8:23:01 PM   
Erik Rutins

 

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Let's leave current events and "real world" examples out of this please. That can get into politics, while we want to focus on gaming. Let's keep the discussion to DW please.

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RE: To trade or not to trade - 4/11/2010 8:29:34 PM   
Gertjan

 

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Sorry Erik, I was just trying to set the example that two friendly countries would trade technology and strategic resources with each other. Perhaps they are not correct, but I had no intention to start a political discussion.

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RE: To trade or not to trade - 4/11/2010 8:33:16 PM   
taltamir

 

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fair enough, lets not get into it.

In the game you get to chose whether you trade strategic resources with allies or not. As for incentive to do so, the incentive is that if you do it, your allies get a huge bonus to their development on their colonies. I don't think there needs to be SPECIAL incentive to artificially "force" you to trade it (aka, you get a huge bonus from trading it to your allies and it will handicap you to chose not to). You trade it to them so that they benefit, and so they are not upset with you for hoarding it.

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