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Hyperspace Void Component - 4/5/2010 12:18:52 AM   
BigWolf


Posts: 539
Joined: 3/31/2010
Status: offline 		Now I realize, this is abit of a request, but I would like people's opinions on this as well

Due to the nature of hyperspace where you can bypass all defences and go straight to any target within range, I was thinking about some form of counter to this

So, how about a component that causes an artificial Hyperspace void

The thinking is, this component would need to be fairly expensive and requiring at least one of the rarer resources, of course, all strategic resources are at least "moderate" availability, so a new resource might be needed, or a current set too rare
Also, its placement is too be limited to starbases (so not on ports or ships)

The purpose of this component would be too generate a field that has the same effect as the current natural voids, in which no ship can travel via hyperspace through this void and must proceed through it with normal propulsion (or turn around and take a different route)
Of course, being artificial, your own ships won't be affected (don't want it hampering yourself do we?), and maybe a treaty could be signed to not affect certain allies, with independents maybe automatically given this "treaty"

The thought behind this, you can build this starbase at the centre of important star-systems (ala Homeworld) which means, enemy ships have to drop out of hyperspace at the edge of the system, giving you time to bring some defenders over (ie. you should be given a warning when enemy military vessels breach a hypervoid)
Of course, you could even create a defensive line between you and the enemy within deepspace if your economy can handle it, but as said, this component needs to be quite expensive so it can't just be "spammed" all over the galaxy

Of course, the AI needs to be programmed to both use these themselves, and know how to avoid them (ie. divert around) if the intended destination isn't within the void

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RE: Hyperspace Void Component - 4/5/2010 1:08:26 AM   
Wade1000


Posts: 771
Joined: 10/27/2009
From: California, USA
Status: offline 		Nice. Like in Moo2. I'm for any new technology as long as the AI use it too and there are eventual counter technologies to it.
It could have sort of secret frequencies that are set to allow your ship engines and friendly ship engines to use. Maybe new engines will let opponents ignore it partially or fully. Then, you would need to research a newer version. A good way to extend the tech tree using infinite technology.

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RE: Hyperspace Void Component - 4/5/2010 1:12:15 AM   
forsaken1111

 

Posts: 281
Joined: 3/30/2010
Status: offline 		I'm actually against this technology as it would entirely suppress lightning raids and hit-and-run tactics. If there were ways to bypass it, that's alright but the current system is pretty good. Sure you can bypass some defenses to hit a target but important targets should, at least, have a spaceport on them which gives pretty considerable defense. A large spaceport will often keep a fleet busy long enough for your ships to respond.


Assuming of course that they don't just ignore your spaceport and land a bunch of troops anyway, then get your spaceport for free.

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RE: Hyperspace Void Component - 4/5/2010 1:15:41 AM   
BigWolf


Posts: 539
Joined: 3/31/2010
Status: offline 		Re: Counters... I wasn't sure if that should be implemented, but I like your idea of having to research newer versions
But end game, I would prefer there not be a counter on any final researched version, as it would then render it completely useless endgame, at which point you've got ships that can zip around and take out important locations before any proper defence can be mounted

As for the frequencies, I like it as a backstory to explain how some can go through and others can't, and it could open up the possibility of "stealing"  these codes through espionage to gain passage through enemy voids for a limited time (must be limited, or, again, will render them useless)


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RE: Hyperspace Void Component - 4/5/2010 1:31:27 AM   
BigWolf


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quote:

ORIGINAL: forsaken1111

I'm actually against this technology as it would entirely suppress lightning raids and hit-and-run tactics. If there were ways to bypass it, that's alright but the current system is pretty good. Sure you can bypass some defenses to hit a target but important targets should, at least, have a spaceport on them which gives pretty considerable defense. A large spaceport will often keep a fleet busy long enough for your ships to respond.


Assuming of course that they don't just ignore your spaceport and land a bunch of troops anyway, then get your spaceport for free.



Hit and runs are fine, but unless you've already got a fleet in the system, I could take out your homeworld (or something else important) with a sizeable force before you can bring your own fleet back
The result of this equals you've lost something important without being able to do a thing
A starbase is only 1, 100+ enemies shooting at it, it'll be gone in no time, even with a 2nd defence base as support, sure you'll take out a good portion of my ships, but the damage is done
And lets be honest, you cant protect everywhere important with bases and ports, you'd ruin your economy

Though I do agree, counters are needed
Of course, you don't start off with this tech, and you should only be in a position to afford it once you have a sizeable empire(I'm talking maybe 5,000 to 10,000 credits maintenance for the component alone, not including the rest of the starbase or purchase/resources prices)
You'll still not be able to protect everywhere with it, so hit and runs are still possible on other places

Of course, another conventional counter, have some Frigates that are really fast sub-hyperspace to jump in, head over to the base and take it out, allowing the main fleet to jump in
And I've just quickly checked using starting tech, I've just created a 200-size Frigate with a 53 Sprint Speed and 7 weapons, in numbers they would make short work of anything. And that speed is faster than any other combat vessel at the same tech level, so providing you ignore anyone "warping" next to you, you're outrunning everything anyway
And considering this void tech would be only in use once your tech is further down the line anyway, you should be even faster and harder hitting anyway

< Message edited by BigWolf -- 4/5/2010 1:34:24 AM >

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RE: Hyperspace Void Component - 4/5/2010 4:39:11 AM   
Wade1000


Posts: 771
Joined: 10/27/2009
From: California, USA
Status: offline 		With a feature of endless technology there would be no final technology with no counter to it. It would be a continual evolution of technology. Each "Future Technology" could provide small bonuses to items and increase each research by 50% to 100%.

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RE: Hyperspace Void Component - 4/5/2010 4:41:55 AM   
BigWolf


Posts: 539
Joined: 3/31/2010
Status: offline 		The problem is Wade, each component would still need its own bit of memory to save calculation time, which could result in a memory management nightmare

Space Empires 5 was originally planned to have unlimited technology levels, but was dropped due to the reason above


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RE: Hyperspace Void Component - 4/7/2010 12:02:06 PM   
BigWolf


Posts: 539
Joined: 3/31/2010
Status: offline 		Not as much discussion as I'd hoped... would I be guessing that not many people like the thought of this idea?

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RE: Hyperspace Void Component - 4/7/2010 11:00:11 PM   
Webbco


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Status: offline 		You know what would happen....the AI would go crazy on it and every few mins you'd have to desperately re-engage fleets, freighters, patrols, construction ships etc into hyperspace

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RE: Hyperspace Void Component - 4/8/2010 12:12:24 AM   
taltamir

 

Posts: 1290
Joined: 4/2/2010
Status: offline 		the "void" areas let you hyperspace IN just fine... you can't hyperspace OUT of a void and you move at a reduced speed while in it. which is really annoying and time consuming.

there is already a component that prevents ships from hyper-spacing out, and it is even automatically put unto the bigger ships... and you can put it on your space ports... its only activated when you give an attack command (or the ship decides to attack via ai of course).

there is no point to it... if the target is important enough you just put a tough enough space base on it that can survive long enough for reinforcements to arrive.... this just serves to further reduce tactics and lock you completely into steamrolling techniques... since you cannot escape and you cannot do hit and run... every attack will let the enemies bring in their fleet... so its just "who has more".

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RE: Hyperspace Void Component - 4/8/2010 12:33:18 AM   
TFA_Falcon

 

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Status: offline 		A station won't help against one of the 'Deathstars' you can find lying around the galaxy. From what I could see there is no actual way to protect a planet from one of those.

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RE: Hyperspace Void Component - 4/8/2010 12:53:44 AM   
taltamir

 

Posts: 1290
Joined: 4/2/2010
Status: offline 		destroy the deathstar?

don't let the enemy build it in the first place? (its fairly easy to destroy before its done; ideally you capture it for yourself)

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RE: Hyperspace Void Component - 4/8/2010 10:21:42 AM   
TFA_Falcon

 

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Joined: 4/8/2010
Status: offline 		Well the problem with destroying them is the fact that they need very little time to destroy a planet. They warp in, turn toward the planet and zap it. All in all about 5 seconds and then they can warp to the next target. They also have a huge fuel tank and the ability to refuel themselves.

So unless you're lucky and have a big ship sitting on just the right side of the planet to catch them with a hyper deny field you're not likely to be able to kill the death star.

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RE: Hyperspace Void Component - 4/8/2010 12:21:57 PM   
Wade1000


Posts: 771
Joined: 10/27/2009
From: California, USA
Status: offline 		After further thought, I think this component should be named like the one in Master of Orion 2 ; the Warp Interdictor, I think it was. I think the Distant Wirld ships use a warp travel method, not a hyper space travel method.

In much science fiction hyper space travel the ships vanish into another level/realm of space. In Distant Worlds the ships still appear on the map as they are warping between places. They appear to vanish and reappear because they are leaving and stopping so fast. But, maybe if they ARE using hyperspace they could be partially in it; like surfing it.

In much science fiction warp travel the ships remain in normal space and visible to scanners.
The warp proccess is usually one of two types:
1. warping space in front to to pull it closer while warping space in back to push it away.
2. This is either seperate or included in method one; warping just behind the ship to form a wave of space that pushes the ship along.

< Message edited by Wade1000 -- 4/8/2010 6:39:27 PM >

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Wish list:population centers beyond planetary(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Culture):Ships,Ring Orbitals,Sphere Orbitals,Ringworlds,Sphereworlds;ability to create & destroy planets,population centers,stars;AI competently using all advances & features.

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RE: Hyperspace Void Component - 4/8/2010 8:12:40 PM   
taltamir

 

Posts: 1290
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quote:

ORIGINAL: TFA_Falcon

Well the problem with destroying them is the fact that they need very little time to destroy a planet. They warp in, turn toward the planet and zap it. All in all about 5 seconds and then they can warp to the next target. They also have a huge fuel tank and the ability to refuel themselves.

So unless you're lucky and have a big ship sitting on just the right side of the planet to catch them with a hyper deny field you're not likely to be able to kill the death star.


all you need is ships that are faster then them... if you order a ship to attack another ship it will go to where it is at, no matter where it is at. (it just knows)... err, but i am not sure if it will wait for the other ship to exit a jump before entering one themselves... if so it would cause problems...

however, maybe making the death start take 20 or 30 seconds to destroy a planet, and 20 seconds to "warm up for a jump" (different engines have different hyper speed and different time to enter jump... this is longer then the longest one but can be justified by the sheer size of this ship)... make its engine "massive drive" which takes massive amounts of space and allows good speed but requires that longer time to jump.

< Message edited by taltamir -- 4/8/2010 8:13:26 PM >

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RE: Hyperspace Void Component - 4/8/2010 11:39:34 PM   
Wade1000


Posts: 771
Joined: 10/27/2009
From: California, USA
Status: offline 		Time ticks in days. Taking that much time would seem incongruous in that lore sense; especially considering advanced, high technology. Even that amount of real time seems incongruous.

Requiring large amounts of energy to be used and an amount of certain components seems congruous.

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Wish list:population centers beyond planetary(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Culture):Ships,Ring Orbitals,Sphere Orbitals,Ringworlds,Sphereworlds;ability to create & destroy planets,population centers,stars;AI competently using all advances & features.

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RE: Hyperspace Void Component - 4/8/2010 11:52:28 PM   
taltamir

 

Posts: 1290
Joined: 4/2/2010
Status: offline 		keep in mind that this is a massive ship the size of a planet that can literally destroy planets.

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