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RE: German units designations - 4/20/2010 1:35:01 PM   
Zovs


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While that is certainly one valid way of refitting this unit there are other ways of doing so. What I have found a bit more beneficial during my playing of the Soviets from 1943-1944 is to set the Corps on Refit (in the line is fine, just takes longer, i.e. if you pull it out of the line and stick it on a rail it will get more units to fill out the TOE much faster and increase it's morale and experience faster as well. At the same time I'll pull out the two Rifle Brigades and place them on Refit, and add another Rifle Brigade (by either building a new one or finding another one from another Army) and when all 3 Rifle brigades are at about 100% TOE and their morale has increase a bit, then build those 3 rifle brigades into a rifle division. Rinse and repeat with three rifle divisions and you can then build up a decent corps.

Again, Hard Sgts method is one way, but I find my way useful, I like smashing the German lines with corps and it's fun to build up armies.


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RE: German units designations - 4/20/2010 1:42:32 PM   
ComradeP

 

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So "Guards" are not actually different from regular army units, except in TOE? It will take some getting used to that you can merge non-Guard units with Guards and that Guard Rifle Squads are the same as the others it seems.

Are SS units different from non-SS units, as in: are there SS Infantry Squads and the like?

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Post #: 152
RE: German units designations - 4/20/2010 1:43:39 PM   
Hard Sarge


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and I also said this was a way of doing it on the front line during the battle (if I wanted to pull out of the line and wait, yes, I agree)

also, that is one of my spearhead Corps working to trap a Large part of AGN

but I think you are missing the main reason for doing this

C&C



< Message edited by Hard Sarge -- 4/20/2010 1:44:29 PM >


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Post #: 153
RE: German units designations - 4/20/2010 2:32:23 PM   
elmo3

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: ComradeP

So "Guards" are not actually different from regular army units, except in TOE? ...


Guards, Elite Axis, and Elite SS units get a +15 morale boost too. That makes a big difference on many die rolls.


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Post #: 154
RE: German units designations - 4/20/2010 2:38:14 PM   
Hard Sarge


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quote:

ORIGINAL: ComradeP

So "Guards" are not actually different from regular army units, except in TOE? It will take some getting used to that you can merge non-Guard units with Guards and that Guard Rifle Squads are the same as the others it seems.

Are SS units different from non-SS units, as in: are there SS Infantry Squads and the like?


stop and think about it, a Guard unit was still basicly a normal unit, where do you think there replacements came from ? there wasn't a Guard Bootcamp, they are better units and have different ToE

for the SS, there are different Grades of SS

for that Guard Corps, it is not as good now as it was, it will take time, to train up the replacements, but, they got a much better chance of getting the training as a Guard

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Post #: 155
RE: German units designations - 4/20/2010 3:53:15 PM   
ComradeP

 

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A number of wargames, especially the more tactical ones like SPWWII do have different Guards sections/squads to model the better equipment they would be using. Drawing replacements from some random collection of Rifle Brigades, essentially instantly making them Guards units could be gamey.

If the Guards Rifle Corps is broken down, it will presumably form Guards Rifle Divisions or Guards Rifle Brigades, so by pulling regular units into Guards units and forming those in to Corps before breaking them up again, units could become Guards without the usual required experience and other things that make a unit a Guard unit, you could essentially create as many Guards units as you have troops, unless I'm missing something. I don't see any special requirement in the process you're describing, so I'm wondering what keeps the Soviets from forming Guards only armies?

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Post #: 156
RE: German units designations - 4/20/2010 4:07:39 PM   
Hard Sarge


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quote:

ORIGINAL: ComradeP

A number of wargames, especially the more tactical ones like SPWWII do have different Guards sections/squads to model the better equipment they would be using. Drawing replacements from some random collection of Rifle Brigades, essentially instantly making them Guards units could be gamey.

Yes, but you are not, you are joining a unit to another unit, those from the Brig, are being split up and filling in the ranks, it is not becoming a "added" Brig with in the Corps, don't forget, the squads, plts, companies and so on, are at 50% or so, full strength, the "merged" unit is filling in the gaps (just the same as troops from some training center, being added to the Corps would be)

If the Guards Rifle Corps is broken down, it will presumably form Guards Rifle Divisions or Guards Rifle Brigades, so by pulling regular units into Guards units and forming those in to Corps before breaking them up again, units could become Guards without the usual required experience and other things that make a unit a Guard unit, you could essentially create as many Guards units as you have troops, unless I'm missing something. I don't see any special requirement in the process you're describing, so I'm wondering what keeps the Soviets from forming Guards only armies?

once you get going, you don't have to do anything "fancy" to make Guard Armies (other then stay alive !), you will have them (Guards Breed like rabbits with out doing anything to help them !


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Post #: 157
RE: German units designations - 4/20/2010 4:12:24 PM   
elmo3

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: ComradeP

...you could essentially create as many Guards units as you have troops, unless I'm missing something. ...


There is a limit on how many Guards units the Soviets can have.

Edit - From the manual (and subject to change of course):

quote:

The Soviet player may never have more than 25% of a non-motorized type be guards units, and no more than 35% of a motorized type be guards units. There is no limit on the number of cavalry or airborne units that may become guards.



< Message edited by elmo3 -- 4/20/2010 4:14:41 PM >


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Post #: 158
RE: German units designations - 4/20/2010 9:12:22 PM   
ComradeP

 

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Would "type" be a unit type like Brigade, Division or Corps? I guess there is a way to get around that system too, by creating a large number of, say, Rifle Brigades and not filling them up. Statistically, there'll be a lot of that unit type then, even though many units are basically empty shells.

It's probably too late now, but perhaps it could be worth considering to tie the limit to actual number of troops and AFV's, rather than the unit number.

I know I'm trying to find problems with your solutions, but I'd rather make sure that this issue has been covered now that this forum has two dozen regular contributors rather than after the game is released and, hopefully, this forum will be swamped by hundreds of players.

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Post #: 159
RE: German units designations - 4/20/2010 9:54:03 PM   
jaw

 

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Here is the exact wording from the latest version of the manual:

"Under certain conditions, soviet on map combat, support, and Corps and Army HQ units may become Guards units. There is a limit to the number of each type of unit (infantry, armor, mountain, artillery, etc.) that may become guard. The Soviet player may never have more than 25% of a non-motorized type be guards units, and no more than 35% of a motorized type be guards units. There is no limit on the number of cavalry or airborne units that may become guards. For determining these percentages, the following weighting is used for different sized units: Corps=15, Division=9, Brigade=5, Regiment=3, Battalion=1."

Based on the above I am assuming the limitation also does not apply the headquarters but I don't know. Perhaps Pavel can answer that.

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Post #: 160
RE: German units designations - 4/20/2010 10:55:19 PM   
ComradeP

 

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So the player is encouraged to create as large a formation as possible, as Corps weigh less than Divisions relative to the combat power their TOE includes. Sounds reasonable, a flood of Guards Brigades flowing across the map wouldn't be preferable from a balance perspective.

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RE: German units designations - 4/20/2010 11:45:42 PM   
Hard Sarge


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quote:

ORIGINAL: ComradeP

So the player is encouraged to create as large a formation as possible, as Corps weigh less than Divisions relative to the combat power their TOE includes. Sounds reasonable, a flood of Guards Brigades flowing across the map wouldn't be preferable from a balance perspective.


you are reading things into what is not being said

you have C&C issues, so you don't want to make as many as you can, or as large as you can

a Army with 30 Inf Corps in it, is going to be massively strong, it just isn't going to be able to do anything

also, 90 Brigs isn't going to be too strong, but you will want a combo of each

as I was trying to offer in my post to 66, I am also trying to get my C&C under control, my Army is too large, too massive for my sub Armies to control, plus, my middle Fronts have taken a pounding, I got Corps that are never solid Divs in numbers, but since there is a major battle going on, I can't afford to just sit back and refit the whole Front/S

hassle, much easier to see and do, then try to explain

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Post #: 162
RE: German units designations - 4/22/2010 3:09:55 PM   
Hard Sarge


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again, some things I am not sure if you have seen

this is something you don't want to see, in good weather !, during mud and blizzard, it will show up more






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Post #: 163
RE: German units designations - 4/22/2010 3:11:56 PM   
Hard Sarge


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for, what ever reason, those LW bases are out of fuel, or bombs or something !

also, I got a Armor Corps, which I need it to be ready for action the next week, and it is kind of far away from the Railhead, so time for a air drop

anything that can carry supplies are sent out




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Post #: 164
RE: German units designations - 4/22/2010 3:13:17 PM   
Hard Sarge


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need less to say, transports are what you want, but, in a pinch, any bomber will do

fighters are to help some of the bombers/transports return home




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Post #: 165
RE: German units designations - 4/22/2010 3:15:33 PM   
Hard Sarge


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of course, the LW don't play fair, and sends in some fighters from a different area, where they got supplies !, but, losses were not too bad

the first mission got me my fuel, the 2nd mission I send in supplies (and out of planes, so no 3rd mission)

2nd mission ran into better fighter cover, so losses were heavier, I think 34 or so, but, my Armor Corps is resupplied




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Post #: 166
RE: German units designations - 4/24/2010 4:42:20 PM   
Hard Sarge


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Sweet

IL-2's on rocket attack !

Yaks Strafing

A-20s bombing






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Post #: 167
RE: German units designations - 4/30/2010 10:54:56 PM   
Hard Sarge


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well, if you know, my computer may of died this morning, so i am messing with my laptop, while I find out what  I got to do


so, my last game I was shot from is finished, so time to start up a new one, and as we got a new exe to work with...

Oh My

playing as SU, in 1942, AI got nasty on me, 16 Divs trapped, lost 92,000 on the opening attack, and the AI is pulling out of some of my normal traps, greesh, can't have fun in the north, while the AI beats up on me in the south this time around

for a bit, I am only going to be able to talk/write about what is going on, take me a while to get the laptop set up like my normal computer




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RE: German units designations - 4/30/2010 11:04:31 PM   
Captain B


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Hard Sarge,

Just want to make sure I understand, you are playing as the SU in 1942 and the initial German attack pocketed 92k of your troops? It will be interesting to see how well the AI continues the attack!

Thanks.

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Post #: 169
RE: German units designations - 5/1/2010 12:54:38 AM   
Hard Sarge


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Naw. the AI killed, wounded or captured 92,000, it trapped 16 more Divs (if full, around 180-190,000 trapped)

I broke the pocket, but all that means is, it will form again, or kill off those Divs on there next turn

oddly, the AI is pulling back from Moscow, and from the east of Leningrad

for me, i would rather see it clean up the line up north, the pull out around Moscow,, may be a good move, other then what it left behind

I pinched off part of it's southern drive, but all that means in dead troops for me, but, it may slow the drive down a wee bit

first time though this one, I didn't pull any of my reserve armies, the 2nd time, by turn 5, i had pulled in 5 of them, this time, i have had to pull 5 or 6

of them on the first turn

last two games, I moved the Transcasua Front, up to the front line, this time, I am holding them back under Rostov and the Don

for battles, the AI was 44 and 6, on my turn I was 6 and 1 (needless to say the SU don't have many chances to snap back)

the Northwestern and Western Fronts look like they may get a chance to do some damage, shortly, Volholov front looks like it is falling into a trap, worried about them, don;t like the way the AI pulled back, it looks, smells, feels like a trap

I also, have formed up 9 Divs of Inf and 2 Gun Brigs

battle starts with Gemman troops around 3,230,000 men and the SU with 6,270,000

my air losses, are around 770 the first week, embearassed to mention what the Axis lost, and I overran two of his fields for half of them !!!!




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RE: German units designations - 5/1/2010 12:58:41 AM   
Hard Sarge


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hmmmmm, trapped 14 divs and 1 corps this time around, 78,000 losses

454 planes, but i got 250 (he is sending out his trannies)

but looks like some of my pockets held, got to make the German pay, when you can, where you can


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RE: German units designations - 5/1/2010 6:39:43 PM   
Hard Sarge


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turn 3 was a blood bath, the North belongs to me, the south to the Ge

what I got to do, is make as many small pockets and take out numbers, and force the Ge to shift his troops, which will stop my attacks, but also slow his advance

I am already setting up a line for stalingrad


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RE: German units designations - 5/1/2010 11:09:11 PM   
chrisdrost

 

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The game looks great but why are numbers displayed as text (left alligned and no commas) making it difficult to read large numbers?

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Post #: 173
RE: German units designations - 5/2/2010 12:24:20 AM   
Hard Sarge


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not sure if that is a finished idea, or what we are working with right now, it may change, any thing we show may change (for what it is worth, I agree)

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Post #: 174
RE: German units designations - 5/2/2010 12:39:35 AM   
Hard Sarge


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well, battle been going well, week 3, lost 64,000, week 4, 55,000, week 5 69,000 and week 6 66,000 (ahhh, of course, it is week 7, so, am missing something some where)

The Ge has not really been able to really complete any of it's pockets, but, that keeps my troops too close to the front, so most of the ones that get trapped, end up broken or killed

I have been able to hold the southern shoulder, and pulled out most of my troops, locked below Rostov, but easy to flank, if the Ge wants, but think it is going to head East

got a northern shoulder, but, in between, got a massive hole, some of my troops were stuck, and can't run away, so others are standing in place, to try and help them get away

my Reserve Armies are sitting in Stalingrad digging in, as the rest slowing (LOL) try to reach them

it is Aug 8th, in the south, they going though me like...

can't stop em




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RE: German units designations - 5/2/2010 12:57:43 AM   
Hard Sarge


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a little closer, my shoulder does not look so good when you close in




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Post #: 176
RE: German units designations - 5/2/2010 4:07:54 AM   
Hard Sarge


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wow, didn't expect the Ge to react like that !

(oh well, screen capture didn't take, but the Ge moved most of there troops south)

I want them to bang there head against the defences at Stalingrad

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Post #: 177
RE: German units designations - 5/2/2010 4:00:47 PM   
ComradeP

 

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If FOW is off, as it seems to be, are there really no garrisons in any of the cities the Germans hold? The Sicherungs divisions seem to be mostly in the field.

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Post #: 178
RE: German units designations - 5/2/2010 4:43:57 PM   
Hard Sarge


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when testing, i find it very HARD to tell what the AI is doing, if I can't see it at work, so yea, I test with FOW off

to be honest, I heavn't really been looking into the backfield during this game, keep my focus on the front line

but, the way I am playing, I may of put a lot of pressure on his line, and it is pulling anything/everything it can, to try and keep his line intact, while it tries to keep his off in action (remember, that the AI does not really have a goal, once it starts the attack, the Russian AI on defence, knows it wants to protect this, guard this river, form this line, the Ge AI is basicly just attack (part of being in alpha, and what we are working on)


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Post #: 179
RE: German units designations - 5/2/2010 5:04:24 PM   
Hard Sarge


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okay I am not sure of the rules after 41, but from what i see, it cities behind the front line that needs to be garrisoned, not sure how, cities already taken are going to be worked into the rules

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