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Max number of AI opponents, hardcoded? - 3/16/2010 12:47:00 PM   
Gargantou


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I was just wondering, since the product page says this.

AI: Yes, Up to 20 opponents (plus dozens of pirate factions, too)

Does that mean that 20 NPC empires is the hardcoded limit, and we can't have anymore even if we got more powerful comps that could handle the added strain on the CPU etc?

Thanks!

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RE: Max number of AI opponents, hardcoded? - 3/16/2010 1:07:52 PM   
Deto

 

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Considering 20 different races in the game, I'm more worried if you're limited to one of each :)

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RE: Max number of AI opponents, hardcoded? - 3/16/2010 1:21:21 PM   
rhohltjr


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Deto

Considering 20 different races in the game, I'm more worried if you're limited to one of each :)


I've asked this question before. Eric says that you are not limited regarding factions. In other words your 20 races can split or have splinter groups (Eric did not say there was any limit to splinter/faction groups). 20 race limit that is hardcoded I'm sure. Factions : unlimited until proven otherwise.




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RE: Max number of AI opponents, hardcoded? - 3/16/2010 1:22:09 PM   
Tycow


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Deto

Considering 20 different races in the game, I'm more worried if you're limited to one of each :)


Elliot has already confirmed that you can have 20 of the same empire against you if you want.

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RE: Max number of AI opponents, hardcoded? - 3/16/2010 1:23:11 PM   
Gargantou


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But the races are written seperately on the product page, I quote.

  • Players: Single Player, 20 playable races
  • AI: Yes, Up to 20 opponents (plus dozens of pirate factions, too)

    It only mentions "pirate factions" as the other factions. Here's hoping one of the devs can clarify.


    < Message edited by Gargantou -- 3/16/2010 1:28:30 PM >


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    RE: Max number of AI opponents, hardcoded? - 3/16/2010 2:52:57 PM   
    Wade1000


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    So, I undertsnd "Up to 20 opponents"  to mean as it says: up to 20 out of 20 AI opponent FACTIONS, PLUS the pirate factions. So, there can not be more than 20 of the 20 main races...PLUS there are pirate race factions.

    Also, yes, it has been said that you can have, for example, 20 Human factions(player plus 19 AI) for the 20 faction limit in a game.

    That is how I understand it all.

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    RE: Max number of AI opponents, hardcoded? - 3/16/2010 3:04:28 PM   
    Okim


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    quote:

    Considering 20 different races in the game, I'm more worried if you're limited to one of each :)


    There is a thread with screenshots that was created 2 day prior to your post. These shots show a list of players: 3 human factions, 6 Slukans, 4 other factions and 5 pirates.

    Number of opponents is hardcoded in most of the games. I never saw any game that allowed modding max player numbers. I doubt that DW is an exception.


    < Message edited by Okim -- 3/16/2010 3:06:30 PM >

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    RE: Max number of AI opponents, hardcoded? - 3/16/2010 4:52:00 PM   
    Duckfang

     

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    quote:

    ORIGINAL: Wade1000

    So, I undertsnd "Up to 20 opponents"  to mean as it says: up to 20 out of 20 AI opponent FACTIONS, PLUS the pirate factions. So, there can not be more than 20 of the 20 main races...PLUS there are pirate race factions.

    Also, yes, it has been said that you can have, for example, 20 Human factions(player plus 19 AI) for the 20 faction limit in a game.

    That is how I understand it all.


    Just to add to this:

    I got the impression that 20 is the max you can start with. I recall Elliot mentioning that the random independent factions can, if left long enough, decide they fancy having a bash at the old empire lark at which point they become a fully-fledged faction themselves.

    In addition, he mentioned that you can also see splinter factions from existing empires form and become an empire in their own right.

    (in reply to Wade1000)
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    RE: Max number of AI opponents, hardcoded? - 3/16/2010 6:15:34 PM   
    rhohltjr


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    From Da Man:
    quote:



    There's no upper limit to factions that I've seen - if you have 20 races and they all have splinter factions, then you've got 40 factions, etc.

    _____________________________

    Erik Rutins
    Director of Product Development and Business Relations






    _____________________________

    My e-troops don't unload OVER THE BEACH anymore, see:
    Amphibious Assault at Kota Bharu
    TF 85 troops securing a beachhead at Kota Bharu, 51,75
    whew! I still feel better.

    (in reply to Duckfang)
    Post #: 9
    RE: Max number of AI opponents, hardcoded? - 3/16/2010 9:40:31 PM   
    Gargantou


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    Thanks rhohltjr! Damnit, my hype level keeps on rising, rising and rising! I think I'm nearing a meltdown!

    I hope he's right though, but somehow I feel a shred of doubt, I can't think of any previous commercial 4X game that hasn't had a built-in limit on the maximum number of active AI entitites to make sure the game doesn't become a lag-fest and consume too much processing power and memory.

    Best thing would be if Elliot saw this and could give a clear technical answer.


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    RE: Max number of AI opponents, hardcoded? - 3/17/2010 12:02:30 AM   
    Wade1000


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    quote:

    ORIGINAL: Duckfang


    quote:

    ORIGINAL: Wade1000

    So, I undertsnd "Up to 20 opponents"  to mean as it says: up to 20 out of 20 AI opponent FACTIONS, PLUS the pirate factions. So, there can not be more than 20 of the 20 main races...PLUS there are pirate race factions.

    Also, yes, it has been said that you can have, for example, 20 Human factions(player plus 19 AI) for the 20 faction limit in a game.

    That is how I understand it all.


    Just to add to this:

    I got the impression that 20 is the max you can start with. I recall Elliot mentioning that the random independent factions can, if left long enough, decide they fancy having a bash at the old empire lark at which point they become a fully-fledged faction themselves.

    In addition, he mentioned that you can also see splinter factions from existing empires form and become an empire in their own right.


    quote:

    ORIGINAL: rhohltjr

    From Da Man:
    quote:



    There's no upper limit to factions that I've seen - if you have 20 races and they all have splinter factions, then you've got 40 factions, etc.

    _____________________________

    Erik Rutins
    Director of Product Development and Business Relations





    Those are right! Cool! I forgot about reading that information. So we can start with 20 main factions PLUS pirate factions then later MORE MAIN factions might come about.

    < Message edited by Wade1000 -- 3/17/2010 12:05:48 AM >


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    RE: Max number of AI opponents, hardcoded? - 3/17/2010 12:08:34 AM   
    Wade1000


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    quote:

    ORIGINAL: Gargantou

    Thanks rhohltjr! Damnit, my hype level keeps on rising, rising and rising! I think I'm nearing a meltdown!

    I hope he's right though, but somehow I feel a shred of doubt, I can't think of any previous commercial 4X game that hasn't had a built-in limit on the maximum number of active AI entitites to make sure the game doesn't become a lag-fest and consume too much processing power and memory.

    Best thing would be if Elliot saw this and could give a clear technical answer.


    Armada 2526 is similiar in new factions forming. I'm not sure if there is a limit after a game starts but in Armada 2526 you can start with 104 facctions and have it run well on the large map it calls 300x300.

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    Wish list:population centers beyond planetary(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Culture):Ships,Ring Orbitals,Sphere Orbitals,Ringworlds,Sphereworlds;ability to create & destroy planets,population centers,stars;AI competently using all advances & features.

    (in reply to Gargantou)
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    RE: Max number of AI opponents, hardcoded? - 3/17/2010 4:40:22 AM   
    elliotg


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    quote:

    ORIGINAL: Gargantou
    Best thing would be if Elliot saw this and could give a clear technical answer.

    Here you go: the maximum limit on number of standard empires in the game is 50. You'll never see more than 50 standard empires in the game, in fact you're unlikely to even get close to that number. This does NOT include pirate factions (of which there can be dozens) or independent alien colonies.

    The maximum number of *starting* empires in the game is 20, including your own. You can have as many empires with the same dominant race as you like, e.g. 20 empires that are all human.

    The maximum hard-coded number of alien races is 20. All standard empires, pirate factions and independent alien colonies are one of these 20 alien races.

    (in reply to Gargantou)
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    RE: Max number of AI opponents, hardcoded? - 3/17/2010 4:45:23 AM   
    Duckfang

     

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    quote:

    ORIGINAL: elliotg
    The maximum hard-coded number of alien races is 20. All standard empires, pirate factions and independent alien colonies are one of these 20 alien races.


    Does this mean that modders won't be able to add a 21st race without overwriting one of the existing 20?

    (in reply to elliotg)
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    RE: Max number of AI opponents, hardcoded? - 3/17/2010 5:05:07 AM   
    elliotg


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    quote:

    ORIGINAL: Duckfang
    quote:

    ORIGINAL: elliotg
    The maximum hard-coded number of alien races is 20. All standard empires, pirate factions and independent alien colonies are one of these 20 alien races.

    Does this mean that modders won't be able to add a 21st race without overwriting one of the existing 20?

    Yes, you need to replace an existing race when you add a new one.

    (in reply to Duckfang)
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    RE: Max number of AI opponents, hardcoded? - 3/17/2010 5:20:29 AM   
    Duckfang

     

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    Thanks for the replies, Elliot.

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    RE: Max number of AI opponents, hardcoded? - 3/17/2010 12:57:23 PM   
    Gargantou


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    Yes thanks Elliot, that cleared it up perfectly!


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    RE: Max number of AI opponents, hardcoded? - 3/17/2010 1:19:04 PM   
    rhohltjr


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    quote:

    ORIGINAL: elliotg
    [Yes, you need to replace an existing race when you add a new one.


    FINALLY!!! OK. To do that involves ....what? You have to change a number of things I imagine.
    Are these things you need to change text file based?

    How do you replace an existing race, .... in detail. without giving anything away.....


    _____________________________

    My e-troops don't unload OVER THE BEACH anymore, see:
    Amphibious Assault at Kota Bharu
    TF 85 troops securing a beachhead at Kota Bharu, 51,75
    whew! I still feel better.

    (in reply to elliotg)
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    RE: Max number of AI opponents, hardcoded? - 3/17/2010 9:32:42 PM   
    ASHBERY76


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    It seem like DW is kinda weak in modding terms when it comes to actual gameplay elements.The races seem to be the only things you can actually mod.

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    RE: Max number of AI opponents, hardcoded? - 3/17/2010 10:17:55 PM   
    Duckfang

     

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    quote:

    ORIGINAL: ASHBERY76

    It seem like DW is kinda weak in modding terms when it comes to actual gameplay elements.The races seem to be the only things you can actually mod.




    Built-in Game Editor: fine-tune your own galaxy, adding or removing star systems, planets, asteroid fields, ships, star bases, space monsters or anything else. Modify the attributes of any empire in your game

    Built-in Customization: modify all ship art, alien races, and much more. Switch between different customization sets with a couple of mouse clicks from the main game menu


    http://codeforce.co.nz/features.asp

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    RE: Max number of AI opponents, hardcoded? - 3/18/2010 2:37:32 AM   
    Mad Russian


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    The next question then is there a minimum number of empires that can be active at the start of a game? I'm needing 4 if I can set it up that way.

    Good Hunting.

    MR


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    RE: Max number of AI opponents, hardcoded? - 3/18/2010 3:46:51 AM   
    hadberz


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    quote:

    ORIGINAL: Mad Russian

    The next question then is there a minimum number of empires that can be active at the start of a game? I'm needing 4 if I can set it up that way.

    Good Hunting.

    MR



    You can play with 0 empires if you want, but where is the fun in that

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    RE: Max number of AI opponents, hardcoded? - 3/18/2010 3:56:24 AM   
    hadberz


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    quote:

    ORIGINAL: rhohltjr

    quote:

    ORIGINAL: elliotg
    [Yes, you need to replace an existing race when you add a new one.


    FINALLY!!! OK. To do that involves ....what? You have to change a number of things I imagine.
    Are these things you need to change text file based?

    How do you replace an existing race, .... in detail. without giving anything away.....



    Changing a race is explained in the customization guide, its a text file to change all the aliens stats.

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    RE: Max number of AI opponents, hardcoded? - 3/18/2010 3:59:34 AM   
    Mad Russian


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    quote:

    ORIGINAL: hadberz


    quote:

    ORIGINAL: Mad Russian

    The next question then is there a minimum number of empires that can be active at the start of a game? I'm needing 4 if I can set it up that way.

    Good Hunting.

    MR



    You can play with 0 empires if you want, but where is the fun in that



    I don't know. I do know where the fun will be in 4.

    Good Hunting.

    MR

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    RE: Max number of AI opponents, hardcoded? - 3/18/2010 10:00:00 AM   
    Gargantou


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    quote:

    ORIGINAL: Mad Russian


    I don't know. I do know where the fun will be in 4.

    Good Hunting.

    MR

    Yeah, just remember to use protection!

    Oh wait.. I was thinking of something else, my bad!

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    RE: Max number of AI opponents, hardcoded? - 3/18/2010 9:32:54 PM   
    ASHBERY76


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    quote:

    ORIGINAL: Duckfang


    quote:

    ORIGINAL: ASHBERY76

    It seem like DW is kinda weak in modding terms when it comes to actual gameplay elements.The races seem to be the only things you can actually mod.




    Built-in Game Editor: fine-tune your own galaxy, adding or removing star systems, planets, asteroid fields, ships, star bases, space monsters or anything else. Modify the attributes of any empire in your game

    Built-in Customization: modify all ship art, alien races, and much more. Switch between different customization sets with a couple of mouse clicks from the main game menu


    http://codeforce.co.nz/features.asp


    I am talking about actual gameplay settings like being able to mod the trade goods,ship sizes,starting empire numbers,troops,tech,planet sizes,etc.This is what you need for full conversions like in SpaceEmpires.

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    RE: Max number of AI opponents, hardcoded? - 3/18/2010 11:43:58 PM   
    Mad Russian


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    Yes, to do conversions the game editor would have to be pretty detailed. I hope it's fully designer controlled. I've been designing my own stuff since the 70's and this game would be no exception.

    Good Hunting.

    MR


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    The most expensive thing in the world is free time.

    Founder of HSG scenario design group for Combat Mission.
    Panzer Command Ostfront Development Team.
    Flashpoint Campaigns: Red Storm Development Team.

    (in reply to ASHBERY76)
    Post #: 27
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