Matrix Games Forums

Forums  Register  Login  Photo Gallery  Member List  Search  Calendars  FAQ 

My Profile  Inbox  Address Book  My Subscription  My Forums  Log Out

A Rising Problem!

 
View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Logged in as: Guest
Users viewing this topic: none
  Printable Version
All Forums >> [New Releases from Matrix Games] >> War in the Pacific: Admiral's Edition >> A Rising Problem! Page: [1] 2 3   next >   >>
Login
Message << Older Topic   Newer Topic >>
A Rising Problem! - 2/25/2010 2:46:38 AM   
Al Boone

 

Posts: 205
Joined: 7/27/2000
From: Cobleskill, New York, USA
Status: offline
It is difficult to apply fundamental game strategy when we don't even know how the rules work and this game is too complex to learn how the rules work by trial and error as we play. Thank God for people like wwengr who are willing to experiment and uncover the rules. Unexplained rules are the only serious problem with WITP AE. People who say that we should not know full information about the game rules are only removing the legitimate game strategy decisions that we should be able to make in a strategic simulation. The excuse that protecting Gary Grigsby’s secrets also does not seem justified, since many deflected questions relate to features added subsequent to the original game.

A case in point is wwengr's discovery of how Naval Support spreads out from a Command HQ's hex. Now that we have an insight into this, a much greater opportunity for game strategy arises. It becomes much more interesting and important to put Command HQs at specific Bases. The influence of a Command HQ over a large map area can now be better judged relative to load/unload, damage control, etc. The location of just one Command HQ can have immense influence on an entire theatre, which can be very exciting gamewise.

I think that developer attitudes have to change about keeping information from players. I think that more information promotes greater game strategy, deeper planning and a richer experience. I think that telling us that we don’t need to know is really an insult. Not knowing how Sweep missions interact with CAP, combat effects, range effects of different units, approximate and unknown effects of certain other actions only detract from the gaming experience, not enhance it.

I have played and worked on these games for 40 years back to Strategic Simulations days. I think that the developers have created the finest historical simulation game ever. My profound respect and appreciation for the AE team makes it is exceedingly difficult for me to be critical, but someone needs to say this – no more secrets!

Let the dogs loose! I am sure that i am in deep s**t now!
Post #: 1
RE: A Rising Problem! - 2/25/2010 3:09:05 AM   
Don Bowen


Posts: 8172
Joined: 7/13/2000
From: Georgetown, Texas, USA
Status: offline

Just to let you all know - the command radius (and application of support) is exactly the way it is in WITP. New support type added (naval support) but otherwise the same.

(in reply to Al Boone)
Post #: 2
RE: A Long standing Situation - 2/25/2010 3:17:47 AM   
jwilkerson


Posts: 10469
Joined: 9/15/2002
From: Kansas
Status: offline
There is nothing new in this "problem". The original WITP was hardly an "open book". Many of us learned that in order to learn how the game worked, we had to test this and that - over and over.

Like for me, to learn how to fight carrier battles - I built a sand box - and ran literally hundreds of test battles. This was how I learned the "defensive split" tactic really works well (too well?) in WITP. But then I was able to teach this to my opponents so they wouldn't keep losing all their carriers!

WITP and AE are not your average games. No one knows all the rules - including the developers. We broke ourselves up into teams - and like the air team knows a fair amount about the air game - but even they do not know everything about the air game. There is more than we did not change - than we did change. Same for the Naval Team, same for the Land team.

Answering questions that might be easy to ask, might take many hours of research and debugging time. We rarely have this kind of time. We are all part timers with day jobs - the bits of time we do have we try to spend fixing reproducible issues that impact most players - we don't really have time to do anything else right now.

Also, the philosophy of the original designers 2x3 was to keep the "formulae" in the game a secret - and for better or worse - we have kept to that spirit - back when we were only supporting WITP - and then now when we are supporting AE.

Often, if we know how something works off the top of our heads - we will answer. Usually when we do not answer, it is because we do not know, or at least we are not 99.9% sure. And to get 99.9% sure would take hours of research.

When I was a player - if I really wanted to know how something worked - I would test and test until I answered the question. Sometimes, even now that I have the code, I can answer a "complex" question, more easily by testing, than I can by staring at the code.

So if you really want to know how something works, then try it!!!

And the "positive" side of not knowing exactly how everything works - is that this provides some "fog of war". Real commanders did not have manuals that gave them 100% assurances of how everything would work. They had to rely on their knowledge, skills, abilities, experience, etc. and they had to take risks. Your advantage as a player - is that you can "play it again" - you can test and determine how things work. The real life commanders could not do that - not exactly - not under real battle conditions. So you still have an advantage of them!



_____________________________

AE Project Lead
New Game Project Lead

(in reply to Al Boone)
Post #: 3
RE: A Long standing Situation - 2/25/2010 3:33:22 AM   
witpqs


Posts: 25755
Joined: 10/4/2004
From: Argleton
Status: offline
We should keep in mind that there is a difference between knowing the formulae versus knowing the rules. For example, at what altitude an air group will use the "low naval bombing" skill as opposed to the "naval bombing" skill is a rule. Knowing all the calculations that go into the mission, any air intercepts, any opposing flak, hits versus misses on the actual bombing run, etc - those are the formulae.

I think it's great to keep the exact formulae secret. The rules should be available information (which is not to suggest that the current developers know absolutely all of the rules).

(in reply to jwilkerson)
Post #: 4
RE: A Long standing Situation - 2/25/2010 5:17:40 AM   
crsutton


Posts: 9590
Joined: 12/6/2002
From: Maryland
Status: offline
One problem with WITP is that the manual was never updated to reflect the changes in the game over a period of time. This was a major problem for new players picking up the game as the manual was so out of date. Since it is a PDF format, I do ask that some attention is paid to updating the manual. I know it is a time suck but it is important...

I will admit that I am not a big manual reader and have learned 90% of what I know by participating in this forum. I have a lot of posts over the years. (Still waiting for the toaster I was supposed to get for the fifth star. ) But not all can do that.



< Message edited by crsutton -- 2/25/2010 5:18:17 AM >


_____________________________

I am the Holy Roman Emperor and am above grammar.

Sigismund of Luxemburg

(in reply to witpqs)
Post #: 5
RE: A Long standing Situation - 2/25/2010 6:03:03 AM   
jwilkerson


Posts: 10469
Joined: 9/15/2002
From: Kansas
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: witpqs

We should keep in mind that there is a difference between knowing the formulae versus knowing the rules. For example, at what altitude an air group will use the "low naval bombing" skill as opposed to the "naval bombing" skill is a rule. Knowing all the calculations that go into the mission, any air intercepts, any opposing flak, hits versus misses on the actual bombing run, etc - those are the formulae.

I think it's great to keep the exact formulae secret. The rules should be available information (which is not to suggest that the current developers know absolutely all of the rules).


Exactly, call them formulae or rules or ugum bugums no body knows them all, never did, never will, there are way too many - hundreds of thousands. Essentially every line of code is a "rule" in some cases multiplied by the number of possible values - that are differentiated in the code - which are contained in the editor data. Lots of "rules" ...





_____________________________

AE Project Lead
New Game Project Lead

(in reply to witpqs)
Post #: 6
RE: A Long standing Situation - 2/25/2010 12:07:19 PM   
tocaff


Posts: 4781
Joined: 10/12/2006
From: USA now in Brasil
Status: offline
Sort of like real life, trial and error.  It works for me as long as I have a general idea the refinement comes through experience.  

_____________________________

Todd

I never thought that doing an AAR would be so time consuming and difficult.
www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=2080768

(in reply to jwilkerson)
Post #: 7
RE: A Long standing Situation - 2/25/2010 12:09:49 PM   
MikeS4269


Posts: 182
Joined: 9/14/2004
Status: offline
I have been talking with some of the local guys in Singapore about this.

Has there ever been any talk about making a collection of all the tips / rules / strategies all in one place?

I just found out that you need 20k of supplies in a base to draw planes from the pool into the squadrons. It has been killing me in my first ever PBEM game (GC) and it was not in the rules (that I could find). (Also searched the forums loosely for it as well...)

In one day, I see a half dozen good tips come up, scroll by, and vanish into the backlog of posts. Then a newbie (like me) comes along, and the whole process starts again...

Could there be a "living rules" like they have for most boardgames these days? Or, better yet, a "living players' guide" where each few weeks / months a mega .pdf document gets updated and re-posted somewhere?

People could write articles / sections and it would grow as experience in the game does?

My opponent and I are keeping notes of what we learned so far. I am also keeping tabs on tips I learn online.

-Lb


(in reply to jwilkerson)
Post #: 8
RE: A Long standing Situation - 2/25/2010 12:23:43 PM   
Venividivici10044


Posts: 137
Joined: 8/29/2009
Status: offline
I would echo that the best way to learn is to make a test bed scenario with the editior; add the forces you want to learn about and run the scenario over and over. It works well for most things in the game.

_____________________________

I play and post for fun...nothing stated ever carries with it the thought to irritate. If something does...privately PM and I will review.

(in reply to MikeS4269)
Post #: 9
RE: A Rising Problem! - 2/25/2010 12:38:29 PM   
castor troy


Posts: 13814
Joined: 8/23/2004
From: Austria
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Don Bowen


Just to let you all know - the command radius (and application of support) is exactly the way it is in WITP. New support type added (naval support) but otherwise the same.




but HQs don´t share their support squads outside of their hex in WITP, naval HQs obviously do share their naval support outside their hex in AE.

_____________________________


(in reply to Don Bowen)
Post #: 10
RE: A Rising Problem! - 2/25/2010 12:46:06 PM   
m10bob


Posts: 8622
Joined: 11/3/2002
From: Dismal Seepage Indiana
Status: offline
You could expose every rule and somebody would still want to know why a high speed PT boat cannot cut a tincan in two by momentum.

_____________________________




(in reply to castor troy)
Post #: 11
RE: A Long standing Situation - 2/25/2010 12:53:57 PM   
olperfessor


Posts: 98
Joined: 4/28/2003
From: New York, N.Y.
Status: offline
Yes, there should be an evolving compilation of rules clarifications so that answers don't get scrolled into oblivion, but isn't this partly the responsibility of the players? Isn't there a nascent Wiki page for this? Has no one started a website for this?


(in reply to Venividivici10044)
Post #: 12
RE: A Long standing Situation - 2/25/2010 2:01:03 PM   
Al Boone

 

Posts: 205
Joined: 7/27/2000
From: Cobleskill, New York, USA
Status: offline
I have been doing this and following and participating in the forum every day. Unfortunately, this leaves me little time to play the game. Even with a (theoretical) IQ of 130, and a Professional Engineers' License I do not know enough to play this game adequately after much study. I have printed out sixty+ pages of notes on game rules only. I have saved these printouts since 1/04/10. For example:

WITP AE Tips From Forum 1/25/10 - 2/19/10

----
scott1964
No Zero Bonus but an amphib bonus until March 1942
---
Sardaukar -
In game engine, sweep has advantage against CAP and CAP has advantage against escort. IIRC, this was confirmed by The Elf.
Barb -
You should have your bombers and fighters set on the same altitude to get better chance of coordinated strike. Fighters on escort will however "meet" the bombers at assigned altitude and then "climb" 3000ft up to cover them. At least thats theory :D
---
LoBaron
The higher the DL of a fleet or a base the more accurate the attacks.
---
Political Points Disappearing-
Simple solution will be to suppress the 'Done' button until a selection is actually made. I will do this to the base, army and group command change screens to keep them consistent.
michaelm
------
How To Air Evacuate LCUs-
Set the aircraft mission to supply, set the destination to Rabaul. Now set them mission to pick up troops, and then the one you want to move.
-nomad-
-----
no1487477-
FT evac and insertion not working as intended:
pick up troops -> TF tries to load supplies, even if I turn on, "don't load supplies"
pick up /deploy troops -> get in, get the guys, get out before daybreak
Units not listed for pickup at bases, held or enemy held or underseige
FT task forces also stopped dead in their tracks by a simple sub attack. Not even a hit, just a shot.

michaelm-
I have found a couple of items that would impact picking up troops
1. coastal hexes were defined as a hex with at least one land and one sea hexSIDE. However, single hex islands would have all sea hexsides. This was the ONLY place where a coastal hex was defined this way. Changed it follow the normal method of just checking the type of hex so more LCUs will be available.
2. the 'troop only' flag was getting cleared incorrectly after returning from the pick up screen.

Not sure why the TF would stop after being attacked.
----------
Returning Damaged warships for repair-
witpqs-
If you perform the temporary repairs 'pierside', 'readiness', or 'repair ship' but not 'shipyard' then all of the repair efforts will go toward 'minor float', 'minor engine', and 'system'. When those are sufficiently reduced you can send the ship to a larger yard for the permanent work. Of course if major float is just too high use a shipyard for the temporary repairs.
Bullwinkle-
It's also absolutely critical to transit in the conditions you cite at Cruise speed. Going Mission speed will accumulate more float damage very quickly.

I got one of the RN BBs from Colombo to Cape Town with 75 Major Float, and 21 System Damage. One big key was Minor Float was zero. I'm not sure I'd try that again, but I was new to the game. It was on Cruise and I got lucky.
-----------
Don Bowen-
Naval support does assist in repairs for pierside, but does not for shipyard (the shipyard is a self contained entity).

Also, increaseing priority for a ship in an underutilized shipyard may have little or no effect as the shipyard will already be dedicating unused resources to ships under repair in the yard. It will, in effect, automatically raise the priority of a ship if no other ship is competing for the shipyard resources.
------
Invading Atolls-
pompack-
1. Land large force using many ships (NOT minimum ships) and using APA/AKA if you got them
2. Crunch the opponent quickly before you starve
3. Land LOTS of naval support troops
4. Withdraw assault force
5. Withdraw Naval support troops
6. Land garrison troops
------------
wwengr-
All of the ways to repair major damage -


Repair Yards are able to repair all types of damage; System, Floatation, and Engineering damage, as well as Major damage.

AR, AD, AGP, and AG can repair major damage for PT, PB, PC, SC, AM, ML, HDML, MGB, YP, YMS, AMc

ARD can repair all major flotation damage

For PT , MGB, ML, PC, PB, SC, AM, YM, AMc, YP, and HDML: Major damage can be repaired by a size 4 port (or larger), except for ships with a tonnage greater than 499, which require a port of size tonnage/100. AR, AD, AG, and AGP can repair major damage.

For LB, LCVP, LCM, LCT: Major damage can be repaired by a size 4 port (or larger) or AR, AG, AGP

For Midget Submarines: Major Engine Damage can be repaired by a port of size 6 or greater, or by an AR or AS.

For xAP, xAPc, xAK, xAKL, TK, AKL, YO, and APc: Major damage can be repaired at a port with size equal to 100 per ship tonnage.

AR can repair major engine or major flotation damage if the damage is 5 points or less.

Ports of size 7 and above can also repair major engine and major floatation damage of five points or less, but only if the ship is taken offline (assigned to pier side repair mode).
-----------
wwengr-
The TB's are fast and can cause some damage, so keep them around, under air cover, and ready to react. This will force the Allied Player to tie up extra gunnery with his TF's. They are small so only a few VP each if sunk.

The PC's can be an additional escort for short to mid-range convoys. They can add their machine guns to the AA and be a potential target in lieu of more valuable ships. If the convoy ends up in a surface engagment, the torpedoes can be effective. Otherwise, anchor them in a port where their machine guns can provide a little extra AA.
----
Amphibious Assault Assistance
Q-Ball -
When attacking an atoll:

1. Make sure you have at least one or two transport with ONLY supplies on them. Otherwise, your troops will unload and attack without supplies.
2. When loading, use 5 times the number of ships you think you need. The idea is that you want to unload everyone in one day, and avoid having to make back to back shock attacks. You don't need that multiple if you have LCIs and other handy invasion craft, but if you are using xAP, use way way way more than you think you need.
3. Bombard and bomb the enemy there
4. Don't unload anyone that isn't close to 100% prepped. In AE, this is much more the case than WITP!
5. Tanks help alot (if they are prepped). Always bring some.
6. Use AGC/Amphib HQ if you have them. Use APA/LCI if you have them.

That should do it; quick unload, make sure you have supplies, bomb/bombard it
---------
If set to "Follow TF" and "React 6
Don Bowen -
Orders to React will override orders to follow/meet. Choose your options wisely.
----------
Political Point Shortcuts
wwengr -
Change a HQ from a Restricted Command to an Unreastricted Command - This will result in all of the units that are subordinate to become unrestricted. This saves the PP expense of changing the units individually. Example, several units are assigned to a Corps HQ that is assigned to a restricted HQ. The Corps HQ is not restricted with (R) by it's name. Rather than changing the units individually, to load for transport. Change the Corps HQ at a much lower expense of PP. Using logical groupings of units habitually assigned to a HQ, the HQ can be changed to effect the change of all of the units to different commands for various purposes. (Not gamey - exactly as intended)

Another variation on the TF Commander is to form a bunch of TF's of the same type and keep only the one with aTF Commander that you like. Example; say there are twenty DD's at Pearl and you want to form an ASW TF of four DD's. Form 10 TF's with two DD's each and select the TF that has the best TF Commander. Transfer ships in and our as necessary to get what you want and disband all of the other TF's. No PP's. (A little gamey)
-----------
Pilot Pools -
ckammp -

I. Types of Pilot Pools

A) Replacement Pool - low-experience pilots who are recent graduates of the off-map training program.
B) Reserve Pool - experienced pilots, assigned into 3 sectons: Group Reserve, General Reserve, TRACOM.
1) Group Reserve - This includes the following pilots:
a) Pilots assigned to an active unit, but who have a delayed arrival date.
b) Pilots assigned to an inactive unit. (the unit has not yet arrived)
c) Pilots assigned to an active unit, but WIA.
d) Pilots assigned to an active unit, but inactive due to too many pilots in the unit.
e) Pilots assigned to an active unit, but inactive due to too few planes in the unit.
f) Pilots assigned to an active unit, but inactive in order to be transferred.
2) General Reserve - This includes the following pilots:
a) Pilots not assigned to any unit.
b) Pilots whose unit was permanently disbanded/withdrawn.
c) Pilots whose unit was destroyed while they were inactive due to WIA.
d) Pilots transferred from Group Reserve.
e) Pilots in General Reserve are grouped by type. (Bomber, Fighter, Patrol)
f) Pilot type is determined by either the editor or unit type.
3) TRACOM - This includes the following pilots:
a) High experience (80+) pilots assigned by the player.
b) Pilots in TRACOM help to speed up the off-map training program.
C) Trainee Pool - pilots training in the off-map training program. Available only if the other Pools are empty.


II. Transferring Pilots

A) From unit to Group Reserve
1) From the air unit's information screen, click "Pilots".
2) Left-click the name of the pilot, then click "Yes".
3) The pilot will remain in the unit list, but greyed-out. The pilot will now also be listed in "Group Reserve".
B) From unit to General Reserve
1) From the air unit's information screen, click "Pilots".
2) Left-click the name of the pilot, then click "Yes".
3) Left-click the name of the pilot again, then click "Yes".
4) The pilot is no longer in the unit list. The pilot will now be listed in "General Reserve".
C) From General Reserve to TRACOM
1) Eligible pilots' names appear in yellow in the General reserve list.
2) Click the name of the pilot, then click "Yes".
D) Limitations of Transfers
1) Pilots assigned to units due to withdraw
a) Pilots in these units can transfer to Group Reserve with no restrictions.
b) Pilots in these units can transfer to General Reserve if the following condition is met:
- The # of pilots in the unit exceeds the maximum # of planes +1.
- e.g. if a unit can have 13 planes, there must be at least 15 pilots.
c) Pilots in excess of maximum planes +1 can transfer to General Reserve.
e) Pilots in these units eligible to transfer are randomly determined.


III. Assigning Pilots to Units

A) From the Replacement Pool
1) From the air unit's information screen, click "Get New Pilot".
a) Each click will assign 1 pilot, up to the maximum allowed.
2) From the air unit's information screen, click "Get # Pilots".
a) This will give the unit it's maximum allowed pilots at once.
3) The pilot(s) will now be listed on the air unit's "Pilots" list.
B) From the Reserve Pool
1) From the air unit's information screen, click "Request Veteran".
2) Click the name of the desired pilot, then click "Yes".
3) If transfer delay is less then 6 days, the pilot will be listed on the air unit's "Pilots" list.
C) Transfer Delay
1) There is a random, up to 15 days, delay for pilots transferring from the Reserve Pools.
2) Pilots with a delay of 6 days or less will show up immediately in the assigned unit's "Pilot" list.
3) Pilots with a delay of 7-15 days will be listed under Group Reserve until the delay is 6 days.
4) Pilots with a delay of 7-15 days will not be listed in their units "Pilot" list until the delay is 6 days.

ckammp -
There is a random, up to 15 day delay when transferring pilots to other units, or when transferring pilots to General Reserve.
Because of this delay, if you want a pilot to go to a specific unit, it is better to transfer the desired pilot straight to the desired unit, rather than transfer the pilot to General Reserve, then to the desired unit.
Pilots transferred to General Reserve who have a delay of 8 days or more are not available for transfer to a unit until there delay is 7 days or less; however, the delay is shown on the General Reserve screen as the month due, not the day due, which makes it hard to know exactly when the pilot will be available. So if you don't have an immediate need for a pilot, transfer him to General Reserve, if you want the pilot in a specific unit ASAP, use the direct-transfer method.

Pilots can't be transferred from the General Reserve pool to an unit without using "Request Veteran".

AFAIK, the transfer delay is totally random, I've seen no difference in high Exp pilots or low Exp pilots, nor in amount of Fatigue, or location of the unit.

Pilots in Group Reserve can be transferred to 4 places:

1) Pilots eligible for TRACOM (must have 81+ Exp, their names will be in yellow text), can be transferred to TRACOM either from the Group Reserve Screen or from the assigned unit's Pilots Screen.

2) Transferred back to Active Status. (right-click their greyed-out name on their unit's Pilots Screen)

3) Transferred to another unit. (using Request Veteran from the new unit's Air Unit Information Screen)

4) Transferred to General Reserve. (left-click their greyed-out name on their unit's Pilots Screen)
------------
AI Scripts -
Andy Mac-
More historical
aei00x.dat
aei00x-01.dat
aei00x-02.dat
aei00x-03.dat
aei00x-04.dat
aei00x-05.dat
aei00x-06.dat

Less historical
aei00x-07.dat
aei00x-08.dat
aei00x-09.dat
aei00x-10.dat
aei00x-11.dat
aei00x-12.dat

Puhis-
No need to edit anything. I think you can just delete ones you don't like. Or it might be better to rename or move them...
numbered 1-12 .dat files
-----
Sub Transport Missions_
wengr -
The SST's are the only Allied Subs that have Troop Space. All SS's have a cargo capacity that is hard coded, the largest being 60. See page 119 of the manual. The Allied Troops in Cargo Space Offset is 12 (largest SS troop capacity is then 5). See the table on pages 112-113. The only devices that load at 1x load cost are Light Equipment (Load Cost of less than 5). All squads have a load cost of greater than 5, so no squads can be carried on an SS. The only light equipment items are small mortars and AAMG with a load cost of 4 or less.

Conclusion: The only "troops" you can load on an SS are small mortars and AAMG and this is extremely limited. They will sustain 1 to 50 Disruption per day while on board and will sustain 1 to 3 damage when they unload. is it really worth it to rescue a bunch of cadres?

EDIT: On the other hand what are troops and what are cargo? The table on pages 112-113 imply that equipment is cargo. If that is the case, then:

Medium Equipment (2 x Load Cost) - Most Allied subs can load certain equipment.
Heavy Equipment (3 x Load Cost) - Some Allied subs can load even heavier equipment.
Vehicles (3 x Load Cost) - The biggest Allied subs could conceivable load engineer vehicles and motorized support.

Anyone know the answer to this one? I don't think that this is the case, becuase all LCU items loaded on a transport task force shows as "Troops".

Kyberbill-
There are only one or two Allied subs that will load troops in AE. The rest will only load supplies.
----------
Which can ships can upgrade?
wwenr -
Japanese can convert Kyushu and Husimi cargo ship hulls into AR's

Allies get no conversions to AR.

The Dutch CM Rigel will upgrade to become an AR anytime.

The Australian AS Platypus will upgrade to become an AR beginning on 4/44.

Best policy... protect the AR's that you have!
For the Allies, some PG's upgrade to AGP's.
-----------
Moving Aircraft
cmdrcain -
When you want to move planes by ship, you set up a transport/air transport/cargo TF of 1 ship (or more if including escort DD/De etc)

You then Load the plane group way you load troops... selecting Load Troops but instead you load a plane group

Only time the transfer to a ship would be used is if you have a ship in a TF capable of
such Ie: a carrier...

Later in war you can use CVE's to move air groups around..

Some planes will have the range to transfer to a base in Hawaii and on to other island bases...
but thats mainly the Pbys, Big bombers, cargo planes, not short range fighters/db/tb's

One tends to forget how far actually Hawaii is from west coast.
skyros - Try to use AKVs since aircraft will arrive ready to fight.

Bullwinkle58 -
You can also forgo the transports for much of the trip. Use the off-map system to transfer from Eastern US to Cape Town, or, later, Aden, then one transpoort run to Perth or Colombo, etc. Going across the Pacific takes micromanagement and planning, supplies, and time to repair transit damage. I just Base Transfer them into the theater's periphery, then use ships for the last leg.
------------
refueling subs at sea
Don Bowen -
Subs at sea can not refuel. No way, nada, intentionally disabled. You gotta get them to port.
-----
Treespider -
Within 4 hexes IIRC they search 360. (in addition to any assined sectors?)
----
Add Supply - Patch 3 Beta
BigJ62-
The base will try and get and maintain 3 x whatever value is displayed in the supplies required field as denoted by 'B' in the pic below.

This value can be modified by several conditions.
1. If HQ of base is present at that base then add 25k, this addition is not displayed to the user.

2. Spoilage limit can not be exceeded when trying to pull supplies if add supply is not used. If a base has a spoilage limit then it is displayed in the base screen as denoted by 'C' in the pic below.

3. Max draw aka supply cap, you can only draw up to the amount indicated per day as denoted by 'A' in the pic below.

4. If base has no spoilage limit and a cargo tf is loading supplies then the unused capacity is divided by 3 and added to supplies required.
(see drawing RE: Add supply - 2/18/2010 7:01:00 PM post 8)
--------
michaelm -
Each hex has its own 'weather'.

The weather shown on the top row is the weather in the current hex - the one on the map with all 6 hex sides white.
---------------
End





(in reply to olperfessor)
Post #: 13
RE: A Long standing Situation - 2/25/2010 2:16:20 PM   
Bullwinkle58


Posts: 11302
Joined: 2/24/2009
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Al Boone

I have been doing this and following and participating in the forum every day. Unfortunately, this leaves me little time to play the game. Even with a (theoretical) IQ of 130, and a Professional Engineers' License I do not know enough to play this game adequately after much study. I have printed out sixty+ pages of notes on game rules only. I have saved these printouts since 1/04/10. For example:



The Secret to AE Happiness is to stop being an engineer and play like a Philosophy major. Accept that the universe doesn't care about you, all is yawning darkness, there are no moral absolutes or mandatory actions, and you are, in all probability (but with no way to prove) being decieved by a malevolent demon who is controlling all of your senses for its own ends, leaving you, at long last, with only one, recurrent, ownable thought: Cogito, ergo AE.

Thank you. (That's worth three semester hours, BTW.)

_____________________________

The Moose

(in reply to Al Boone)
Post #: 14
RE: A Long standing Situation - 2/25/2010 2:17:33 PM   
morganbj


Posts: 3634
Joined: 8/12/2007
From: Mosquito Bite, Texas
Status: offline
Well, that's a start.  Now, zip up all the rest and post 'em. 

(in reply to Al Boone)
Post #: 15
RE: A Rising Problem! - 2/25/2010 2:18:30 PM   
Don Bowen


Posts: 8172
Joined: 7/13/2000
From: Georgetown, Texas, USA
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: castor troy


quote:

ORIGINAL: Don Bowen


Just to let you all know - the command radius (and application of support) is exactly the way it is in WITP. New support type added (naval support) but otherwise the same.




but HQs don´t share their support squads outside of their hex in WITP, naval HQs obviously do share their naval support outside their hex in AE.


Aviation support does in WITP (and AE).

(in reply to castor troy)
Post #: 16
RE: A Rising Problem! - 2/25/2010 2:25:54 PM   
Al Boone

 

Posts: 205
Joined: 7/27/2000
From: Cobleskill, New York, USA
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Don Bowen


quote:

ORIGINAL: castor troy


quote:

ORIGINAL: Don Bowen


Just to let you all know - the command radius (and application of support) is exactly the way it is in WITP. New support type added (naval support) but otherwise the same.




but HQs don´t share their support squads outside of their hex in WITP, naval HQs obviously do share their naval support outside their hex in AE.


Aviation support does in WITP (and AE).

And we are gradually figuring out how. Eventually the distance relationship of Aviation Support will become a useful strategy tool in AE.

(in reply to Don Bowen)
Post #: 17
RE: A Rising Problem! - 2/25/2010 2:36:54 PM   
Mistmatz

 

Posts: 1399
Joined: 10/16/2005
Status: offline
I'm happy using mostly common sense rather than knowing all the rules and formulae of the game.

Given the scope and the huge amount of randomization I believe this approach saved me lots of headaches.

_____________________________

If you gained knowledge through the forum, why not putting it into the AE wiki?

http://witp-ae.wikia.com/wiki/War_in_the_Pacific:_Admiral%27s_Edition_Wiki


(in reply to Al Boone)
Post #: 18
RE: A Long standing Situation - 2/25/2010 2:40:29 PM   
USSAmerica


Posts: 18480
Joined: 10/28/2002
From: Chapel Hill, NC, USA
Status: online
quote:

ORIGINAL: olperfessor

Yes, there should be an evolving compilation of rules clarifications so that answers don't get scrolled into oblivion, but isn't this partly the responsibility of the players? Isn't there a nascent Wiki page for this? Has no one started a website for this?




Here is the link to the most active AE Wiki site: http://hc-strategy.com/ae/wiki/index.php?title=Main_Page

Edit: Jeeze...I just spent 10 minutes hunting down the URL and kicking myself for not having it in my bookmarks. Then, Mistmatz posts just before me, with the AE Wiki link in his signature line!

< Message edited by USS America -- 2/25/2010 2:41:57 PM >


_____________________________

Mike

"Good times will set you free" - Jimmy Buffett

"They need more rum punch" - Me


Artwork by The Amazing Dixie

(in reply to olperfessor)
Post #: 19
RE: A Long standing Situation - 2/25/2010 2:51:55 PM   
Al Boone

 

Posts: 205
Joined: 7/27/2000
From: Cobleskill, New York, USA
Status: offline
I have printed out 66 pages of forum rules notes in text format from 9/02/09 to 1/04/10 concerning game rules only. Unfortunately, I did not save these documents. If someone has OCR capability and can put them in saveable computer text file, I will send them a copy to use for computer posting for all forum member information. I also have 46 pages of saved text file format forum notes concerning game rules only from 1/04/10 - 2/25/10, just like my example printed above from Forum 1/25/10 - 2/19/10. I will send these notes to anyone who will put them on their WITP AE website. Unless a moderator tells me otherwise the text file notes are too long to post here. Also please note that my notes reflect my priorities and initially ignore much China strategy and deemphasize some game rule aspects. These notes do not address philosophy, Name This, history, geography, etcl.
quote:

ORIGINAL: bjmorgan

Well, that's a start.  Now, zip up all the rest and post 'em. 



(in reply to morganbj)
Post #: 20
RE: A Long standing Situation - 2/25/2010 2:57:47 PM   
Sardaukar


Posts: 9521
Joined: 11/28/2001
From: Finland/Israel
Status: offline
How about putting that stuff here (AE Wiki):

http://hc-strategy.com/ae/wiki/index.php?title=Main_Page



_____________________________

"To meaningless French Idealism, Liberty, Fraternity and Equality...we answer with German Realism, Infantry, Cavalry and Artillery" -Prince von Bülov, 1870-


(in reply to Al Boone)
Post #: 21
RE: A Long standing Situation - 2/25/2010 4:19:28 PM   
morganbj


Posts: 3634
Joined: 8/12/2007
From: Mosquito Bite, Texas
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Al Boone
Unfortunately, I did not save these documents.



(in reply to Al Boone)
Post #: 22
RE: A Long standing Situation - 2/25/2010 8:02:13 PM   
topeverest


Posts: 3376
Joined: 10/17/2007
From: Houston, TX - USA
Status: offline
For me there is a significant difference between the rules and strategies. I think the rules are clear. Think of the 300+ page rule book. There has been genuine effort to provide good outlines for all aspects of the game. When I read them, I had a good understanding of the 'simulation.'

I agree with the philosophy to keep the actual code specifics away from the user community. It is a big piece of the magic. Much of the 'magic' of the uncertainty of outcomes is the fact that we understand the likely outcomes, but we can't know everything, like in the old "Flat Top" game - and that was a real nail-biter of a game. I also want to mention the overwhelming inter-relatedness and complexity of this simlulation relative to priors. Many outcome are subject to the now famous "Chaos" theroy. With so many variables, in many situations, it is not possible to deliver 'imperitives' similar to a more simple simulation. Cookie cutter rules just dont exist very often in this simlulation. I am glad some of the most experienced players are kind enough to help us all by providing some of their experiences in our time of need.

On the other hand, I do agree the organization of the Forum information is sub-optimal. Tags and search strings are hard to execute based on my experience. While this may be deliberate to ensure a constant remix of proposed player ah-ha's, I am for a easier index.

_____________________________

Andy M

(in reply to morganbj)
Post #: 23
RE: A Long standing Situation - 2/25/2010 9:25:17 PM   
Dili

 

Posts: 4702
Joined: 9/10/2004
Status: offline
I think a player not knowing that it needs 20000 supply to replenish squadrons is a failure of manual and of information flow. It is different than trying to know what is the best tactic concerning carriers.

(in reply to topeverest)
Post #: 24
RE: A Long standing Situation - 2/25/2010 10:12:38 PM   
Bullwinkle58


Posts: 11302
Joined: 2/24/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Dili

I think a player not knowing that it needs 20000 supply to replenish squadrons is a failure of manual and of information flow. It is different than trying to know what is the best tactic concerning carriers.

`
It took me exactly 17 seconds after opening the PDF version of the manual to do a Full Reader Search for "20,000" and find this rule in Section 16.2, Air Units, on page 255.

What was the problem again?

< Message edited by Bullwinkle58 -- 2/25/2010 10:13:18 PM >


_____________________________

The Moose

(in reply to Dili)
Post #: 25
RE: A Long standing Situation - 2/25/2010 10:56:09 PM   
treespider


Posts: 9796
Joined: 1/30/2005
From: Edgewater, MD
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Dili

I think a player not knowing that it needs 20000 supply to replenish squadrons is a failure of manual and of information flow. It is different than trying to know what is the best tactic concerning carriers.


EDIT: I should have read to the bottom of the thread Bullwinkle beat me to it...

Ummm did anyone bother to look at page 255 of the manual - Under the Chapter Entitled LOGISTICS
Section 16.0 Reinforcements and Replacements
16.2 Air Units

To get replacements:
">> The air unit is located at a base with an airfield size of 1+ (...) and the base has over 20,000 supplies."

I think its pretty darn clear... In this case I think its players simply not wanting to have to actually read a 300 page manual to play a very complicated game.



< Message edited by treespider -- 2/25/2010 10:57:20 PM >


_____________________________

Here's a link to:
Treespider's Grand Campaign of DBB

"It is not the critic who counts, .... The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena..." T. Roosevelt, Paris, 1910

(in reply to Dili)
Post #: 26
RE: A Long standing Situation - 2/26/2010 12:55:26 AM   
wwengr


Posts: 678
Joined: 1/14/2007
From: Menomonee Falls, Wisconsin, USA
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58


quote:

ORIGINAL: Al Boone

I have been doing this and following and participating in the forum every day. Unfortunately, this leaves me little time to play the game. Even with a (theoretical) IQ of 130, and a Professional Engineers' License I do not know enough to play this game adequately after much study. I have printed out sixty+ pages of notes on game rules only. I have saved these printouts since 1/04/10. For example:



The Secret to AE Happiness is to stop being an engineer and play like a Philosophy major. Accept that the universe doesn't care about you, all is yawning darkness, there are no moral absolutes or mandatory actions, and you are, in all probability (but with no way to prove) being decieved by a malevolent demon who is controlling all of your senses for its own ends, leaving you, at long last, with only one, recurrent, ownable thought: Cogito, ergo AE.

Thank you. (That's worth three semester hours, BTW.)

quote:

I have been talking with some of the local guys in Singapore about this.

Has there ever been any talk about making a collection of all the tips / rules / strategies all in one place?


As a Licensed Professional Engineer and a business executive with an MBA, I wholeheartedly endorse Bullwinkle58's view of the philosophers approach. Another way to look at it is that WITP AE has a never ending supply of Easter Eggs!

Don't worry, be happy!

_____________________________

I have been inputting my orders for the campaign game first turn since July 4, 2009. I'm getting close. In another month or two, I might be able to run the turn!

(in reply to Bullwinkle58)
Post #: 27
RE: A Long standing Situation - 2/26/2010 1:24:42 AM   
Al Boone

 

Posts: 205
Joined: 7/27/2000
From: Cobleskill, New York, USA
Status: offline
I am upset that Dili's post got into this thread. I have tried to work very hard at knowing the rules as written, following all forum discussion and contributing responsibly. My entire reason for initiating this topic was to emphasize learning the game rules which have not been written anywhere. When someone uses this thread to illustrate a lack of due diligence in studying the manual and then challenges rather crudely, it sort of erodes the entire point of my starting this topic. I don't want to contribute to more abused developer feelings! I just want to learn more tidbits like the recently discovered information on range effects of Naval Support in HQs......... These concepts have nothing to do with the actual computer code. They do not inhibit the "game mystique". They do not influence the need for variability of outcome. Typically, if we don't know how Naval Support properly works, why is it in the game? (Do not misunderstand - I think that it is a useful, appropriate and colorful addition, replete with all kinds of "juicy strategies".) How can we allow ourselves to indulge in the masiochism of managing individual pilot training and then not know some of the missing details of game rules.....

(in reply to treespider)
Post #: 28
RE: A Long standing Situation - 2/26/2010 1:29:12 AM   
freeboy

 

Posts: 9091
Joined: 5/16/2004
From: Colorado
Status: offline
I vote we atart a support group for rules clearification.. oh no wait a second we already have one here at these fine forums cough

?
what is the defensive split cv strategy?
any other pearls?

(in reply to Al Boone)
Post #: 29
RE: A Long standing Situation - 2/26/2010 1:35:44 AM   
n01487477


Posts: 4778
Joined: 2/21/2006
Status: offline
quote:

no1487477-
FT evac and insertion not working as intended:
pick up troops -> TF tries to load supplies, even if I turn on, "don't load supplies"
pick up /deploy troops -> get in, get the guys, get out before daybreak
Units not listed for pickup at bases, held or enemy held or underseige
FT task forces also stopped dead in their tracks by a simple sub attack. Not even a hit, just a shot.


Actually since the new patch, Fast Transports are now WAD, still I recommend turning off load supplies for all FT's except FT (supply) - of course

I did a video tute on it, found here.
http://sites.google.com/site/n01487477/Home?pli=1

Also the Wiki is a great place to get some of this info, and I hope in the future I'll put more in there.

Finally, I have to wholeheartedly agree with Mr Wilkerson, I test everything - it's part and parcel of playing such a complex game & sates my sense of unbridled curiosity.

_____________________________


(in reply to Al Boone)
Post #: 30
Page:   [1] 2 3   next >   >>
All Forums >> [New Releases from Matrix Games] >> War in the Pacific: Admiral's Edition >> A Rising Problem! Page: [1] 2 3   next >   >>
Jump to:





New Messages No New Messages
Hot Topic w/ New Messages Hot Topic w/o New Messages
Locked w/ New Messages Locked w/o New Messages
 Post New Thread
 Reply to Message
 Post New Poll
 Submit Vote
 Delete My Own Post
 Delete My Own Thread
 Rate Posts


Forum Software © ASPPlayground.NET Advanced Edition 2.4.5 ANSI

0.488