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RE: Most Favourite 4X Game Ever. - 1/24/2011 3:28:10 PM   
Raap

 

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Rather difficult choice.

Would come down to MoO, MoO2, modded MoO3 or modded Space Empires IV. MoO3 and SE4 have longevity because of modding, but MoO and MoO2 are arguably more fun to play. Think I'd probably go with MoO3, it's the only 4x game which actually makes you feel like a ruler instead of a micromanager. It also takes forever to complete a large game, which would be a plus in this case.

Distant Worlds could be a contender once it has more customization for games and proper non-graphical moddability.

< Message edited by Raap -- 1/24/2011 3:29:54 PM >

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RE: Most Favourite 4X Game Ever. - 1/24/2011 3:41:44 PM   
gmot


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quote:

ORIGINAL: J HG T

Ah, the classic "you go to desert island and magically can do something there" situation.

This is kinda hard for me. I've missed many uber classics mentioned here, like Alpha centauri, Ascendancy etc.
I've got both MoO1 and MoO2 from GOG. Sadly, I Haven't had time to play them extensively so I don't have such nostalgia factor for them. Have to fix that when possible. I've also played SOTS and SOASE and love both of them. Still DW is my most played 4X game ever so it's kinda my choice.
Darn, I hate "pick just one" situations.
Maybe if I could smuggle all my games on memory stick...



Agreed this is very tough to choose. I've played just about every 4X out there. MOO2 I liked but wasn't super crazy about it like some people. MOO3 I didn't like (spreadsheet in space) but didn't hate like others seemed to. GC & GC2 I really enjoyed but now find kind of bland. Space Empires series okay, but got a little dull for me. I don't count SMAC as a 4X game (just Civ on another planet) but I loved it.

BTW, having recently re-played Ascendacy I have to say it's astonshingly primitive compared to today's game. But when I played back in 1995 (I think) I was blown away. Had so many of the great concepts (tech tree, planetary facilities, space ship design, warp lines, etc) that we now consider as basic to the 4x genre.

Ascendary is available as abandonware if you're interested - you'll need Dosbox to play it of course.

Of all those 4X games, DW is the best I've seen. But still could use enhancements before I could call it the best 4X game ever.

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RE: Most Favourite 4X Game Ever. - 1/24/2011 4:54:45 PM   
Tampa_Gamer


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My choice, like others, has changed as technology improves and new ones come out (like DW) and my free time has grown shorter (kids, wife, work et al) since school days.

Today, the choice would easily be Distant Worlds - it just hits the spot that so many have tried and failed to hit. I have high hopes that if more data is externalized in the future (on the level of Space Empires IV/V) that modding will really lengthen the shelf life of this game (heck, people are still playing Space Empires IV).

Last year, the choice would have been Sword of the Stars (real tactical choices, and they did a great job with every race being truly unique with their own tech trees and method of travel)

Prior years, I would have said Space Empires IV Gold (1000s of hours spent modding, playtesting, etc.), MOO3 (I liked their approach to ground combat and as someone else said it would take 1000s of hours to micro-manage a game which is good on a deserted island), and Star General (which I still play for the ground combat element).

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RE: Most Favourite 4X Game Ever. - 1/24/2011 8:08:51 PM   
Bateman1982

 

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I've been delving back into BOTF a bit lately, trying out the BoP and UDM mods.
They no doubt greatly enhance the game but these days I find it too heavy on the micromanagement, having to individually terraform each planet in a system before colonisation becomes a bit of a clickfest.

I've also been trying out MOO2 again, and while its still a classic, I find the tactical combat is also a bit click heavy, and initially frustrating when you can't actually hit anything in the early game due to poor targeting computers. Think my patience for clicking on things must be declining as I get older.

Overall, I think DW fits my requirements the best at the moment - the chance to direct a huge civilisation in space without getting bogged down in micromanagement.

On a side note, UFO enemy unknown is probably one of the best games I've played, but its not a 4X so can't pick that anyway for this particular topic.



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RE: Most Favourite 4X Game Ever. - 1/25/2011 2:11:20 AM   
Sabin Stargem

 

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Hm. I can't pick only one game.

MOO2 has a pretty good balance in all things across the board, but the fact that it is so old works against it. I am really hoping that Stardock does a remake of it.

Stars! was also a favorite during my childhood, and is too old to work on my x64-bit system. I was disappointed that Stars! Supernova Genesis never got finished. Darn you Mare Crisium, for being afraid of niche products! Can you not see that a successful franchise comes from good execution and filling a void?!

I like Sword of the Stars in terms of how it handles making races unique. I just wish that it came coupled with MOO2's racial attribute system, and the ability to improve planets like we could in MOO2. Hm. Actually, I would like to mate MOO2 and Sword of the Stars.

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RE: Most Favourite 4X Game Ever. - 1/25/2011 2:27:41 AM   
Lord_Astraios

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sabin Stargem

Hm. I can't pick only one game.

MOO2 has a pretty good balance in all things across the board, but the fact that it is so old works against it. I am really hoping that Stardock does a remake of it.

Stars! was also a favorite during my childhood, and is too old to work on my x64-bit system. I was disappointed that Stars! Supernova Genesis never got finished. Darn you Mare Crisium, for being afraid of niche products! Can you not see that a successful franchise comes from good execution and filling a void?!

I like Sword of the Stars in terms of how it handles making races unique. I just wish that it came coupled with MOO2's racial attribute system, and the ability to improve planets like we could in MOO2. Hm. Actually, I would like to mate MOO2 and Sword of the Stars.


I will bring my 8 Gig flash drive, and say it only have one game.

You have mentioned one game i have and still play when i dont play another thing, STARS! Its old, and i have spent months playing a game trying to win it. And true, i was following the development of Stars!Supernova, what a letdown the the company went down and the game crashed.

I will bring
Stars!
Distant Worlds
Space Empires 4

And this is not 4X but i will bring freespace 2, no matter if i use a branch as a joystick or the mouse.

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RE: Most Favourite 4X Game Ever. - 1/25/2011 3:44:33 AM   
ehsumrell1


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Bateman1982

On a side note, UFO enemy unknown is probably one of the best games I've played, but its not a 4X so can't pick that anyway for this particular topic.


I agree fully with you on that one Bateman1982!

I'm really in a quandary about this one.....
Modded Space Empires IV Gold has been NUMBER ONE for me until now.....

....but without bias (ya think?), I must take Distant Worlds with the
Return of the Shakturi expansion AND Igard's Star Trek TRSE mod.
That 'bout does it for me!


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RE: Most Favourite 4X Game Ever. - 1/25/2011 4:41:36 AM   
adecoy95


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medieval 2: total war and all its expansions and mods

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RE: Most Favourite 4X Game Ever. - 2/1/2011 2:26:24 PM   
Stilletto


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quote:

ORIGINAL: ASHBERY76

I only really play Sword of the stars with all expansions in 2010,so that is what would go.

Hopefully DW will change that.


I would like to personally thank you for removing what life I have. I was minding my own business while quietly reading through this thread. Then I saw this post. I'd heard of SOTS but hadn't paid much attention to it. So I looked it up. Looked some more. Then went back and looked again. Then I bought the full package and installed it. Now I'm bloody hooked and can't stop playing it. So thank you. Thank you from the bottom of my heart. I didn't think there were any 4x games like this. I also see there is a "2" coming out. When will I get my life back?

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RE: Most Favourite 4X Game Ever. - 2/1/2011 3:02:20 PM   
Data


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probably when humankind will actually do what we're playing atm

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RE: Most Favourite 4X Game Ever. - 2/1/2011 5:24:11 PM   
KenchiSulla


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Reunion...

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RE: Most Favourite 4X Game Ever. - 2/3/2011 3:21:42 AM   
GeorgiaBoy

 

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MoO2. However, a perfect game for me would be MoO2 with the ability to mod in content from MoO3, BotF, SE IV/V...Distant Worlds has the potential to be the game to eclipse MoO2 if the moddability is very robust. It already has the MoO3 interface beat. Now, it just needs to exceed the content of MoO3....

GB

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RE: Most Favourite 4X Game Ever. - 2/3/2011 11:47:19 AM   
diablo1

 

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The best 4x game ever is X3:Terran Conflict. Bestest ever and you can actually fly your ships. And don't try to tell me it's not a 4x because you do in it what you do in any 4x and more. Explore, Expand, Exploit, and Exterminate. The economic game is the best bar none. You actually can land and add things to your starports. It's number ONE!

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RE: Most Favourite 4X Game Ever. - 2/3/2011 1:45:46 PM   
Abraxis

 

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X3 Isn't a 4X game at all. Explore, Expand, Exploit, and Exterminate is just a description of the elements focused on in this genre. Just because other games have these elements, does not make them 4X.

If every game with those things in it were 4X...

Mount and Blade would be 4X
Dragon Age would be 4X
Battlefield Bad Company 2 would be 4X
Supreme Commander would be 4X
Neverwinter Nights 2 would be 4X
hell, Grand Theft Auto 4 would be 4X

MOST games would end up being 4X.
You can't dissect the literal and ignore the allegorical, or denotative meaning. You've lost your way.

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RE: Most Favourite 4X Game Ever. - 2/3/2011 1:54:54 PM   
diablo1

 

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You're ^ wrong of course. Everybody doesn't go by your definition of what a 4x is. As long as a game possesses those four elements then yes they are 4x games. They don't have to follow a specific pattern. You don't expand or control anything like a city or town or planet in Dragon Age btw. Nor Battlefield Bad Company 2 nor Neverwinter Nights 2 or Grand Theft Auto. X3 has all the elements of any other space 4x game. You do explore, you do expand (control other planets and outposts) you do exploit and you do exterminate. Try again you've lost your way.

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RE: Most Favourite 4X Game Ever. - 2/3/2011 2:04:13 PM   
Sabin Stargem

 

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I would say the X series and things like Freelancer or Privateer are in their own genre. They may use elements of 4x, but they play and feel quite a bit different.

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RE: Most Favourite 4X Game Ever. - 2/3/2011 2:17:59 PM   
Raap

 

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The X series *might* have been considered a 4x game if planets actually had any effect on gameplay and could be interacted with. Even then it'd be a dubious claim though. It'd be sort of like calling every game a RPG, because every game has you 'playing a role'.

< Message edited by Raap -- 2/3/2011 2:19:15 PM >

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RE: Most Favourite 4X Game Ever. - 2/3/2011 2:36:28 PM   
Abraxis

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: diablo1

You're ^ wrong of course. Everybody doesn't go by your definition of what a 4x is. As long as a game possesses those four elements then yes they are 4x games. They don't have to follow a specific pattern. You don't expand or control anything like a city or town or planet in Dragon Age btw. Nor Battlefield Bad Company 2 nor Neverwinter Nights 2 or Grand Theft Auto. X3 has all the elements of any other space 4x game. You do explore, you do expand (control other planets and outposts) you do exploit and you do exterminate. Try again you've lost your way.


No, I brought those up because if we're going by your loose, literal definition, those qualify.

And it's not MY deffinition of what 4X is, the whole point of Genres is that it's a common classification. To go around redefining them for your own purpose is to betray their purpose.

But if you want to change it now, to "control anything like a city or town or planet" I've got news for you bro, In NWN2 you control a castle, and all the aspects of how it operates. In Mount & Blade you can potentially control Every castle and city on the map, you can even start your own empire. But guess what?

STILL NOT 4X.

Raap explained it nicely.
All games have strategy, but not all games are strategy games.
All games have action, but not all games are action games.
All games have role-playing, but they're not all RPGs

You're just being argumentative and quite rude.

X3 is a space sim, accept it.

< Message edited by Abraxis -- 2/3/2011 2:46:20 PM >

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RE: Most Favourite 4X Game Ever. - 2/3/2011 2:45:38 PM   
diablo1

 

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Raap doesn't qualify as a difinitive person of definition of what something is either. I perfer to go by Webster. X3 is not just a space sim. You can play it as a space sim and that's what makes it even better than just a mere 4x. You can play it space sim, 4x or space sim AND 4x. Like I said and another also even said it was his favorite 4x X3:Terran Conflict is the best 4X of them all. I could care less your definition or this Raap. lol have a nice day in your fantasy world of definitions.

Also controlling just one castle in NWN2 is not like 4x expanding. There are more than ONE things to expand upon. But, yes Mount & Blade I would consider a strategy 4x game as well. It has all the elements. Besides nothing has ever been written in stone of what ALL encompasses 4X. Someone stuck it on Sci-Fi strategy games but it EXPANDS well beyond that. You need to get out of your little world of between the lines. Especially when it concerns computer games genres and definitions. There are MANY crossovers of what is what always has been and always will be. It's like noob it's not even a real word but in the computer world it pretains to SOME gamers who's names I won't mention here because Erik will have a hissy.

< Message edited by diablo1 -- 2/3/2011 2:50:43 PM >


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RE: Most Favourite 4X Game Ever. - 2/3/2011 2:52:20 PM   
diablo1

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: adecoy95

medieval 2: total war and all its expansions and mods



Notice his pick? Let's see if it qualifies as 4X? Explore? yep, Expand? yep, Exploit? yep, Exterminate? yep. So yep I agree this qualifies as a 4x game.

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RE: Most Favourite 4X Game Ever. - 2/3/2011 2:53:33 PM   
diablo1

 

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btw here's the online google definition for you:

quote:

Definitions of 4X game on the Web:

•4X games are a genre of strategy video game in which players control an empire and "explore, expand, exploit, and exterminate". The term was first coined by Alan Emrich in his September 1993 preview of Master of Orion for Computer Gaming World. ...
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/4X_game


http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&rls=com.microsoft:en-us&defl=en&q=define:4X+game&sa=X&ei=TMFKTcjEFMKAlAfJpJwG&ved=0CBMQkAE

I control my own Empire in X3 starting from one small ship and building up into starbases, star systems, and other ships. Exploring, Expanding, Exploiting and Exterminating everything and everybody else. Qualifies as a 4x game by definition of Alan Emrich.

< Message edited by diablo1 -- 2/3/2011 2:56:43 PM >


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RE: Most Favourite 4X Game Ever. - 2/3/2011 3:15:16 PM   
J HG T


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Yeah, and we all play RPGs no matter what we play. Don't you have anything better to do Diablo1? Like playing your precious X3 rather than hanging here and annoying other people.

< Message edited by J HG T -- 2/3/2011 3:21:10 PM >


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RE: Most Favourite 4X Game Ever. - 2/3/2011 3:16:08 PM   
unclean

 

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Civ 4 for sure, especially if I can cheat and bring mods.  Have to give Alpha Centauri a mention for having the most memorable factions, though, hell I STILL have beef with the Believers.

All never bothering to advance their tech past throwing sticks at things then having their first words being a list of the 18 different ways I need to die, get out of here with that BS Believers

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RE: Most Favourite 4X Game Ever. - 2/3/2011 3:42:57 PM   
Abraxis

 

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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/X%C2%B3:_Terran_Conflict

look at the Genre.

This is not my fantasy world.  My "little" world of being between the lines as you say is SCIENCE, clearly you need a little help with this concept.  'Science' comes from the Latin, 'scientia', Which means knowledge.  It is derived from the latin word, 'scindere' (to separate one thing from another, to distinguish) it's the same root as words like 'Scythe' and 'Scissors'.  The reason they made this connection is because without distinguishing different elements, everything becomes just that, everything.  We would only need one word, 'everything', that would be good enough, it means anything.  Why bother categorize anything, why separate anything, that's so simple minded.  Just refer to anything as everything, done.

Without borders between genres, genres cease to exist.  Their whole purpose is to create borders to separate and categorize.  Yes there is frequent overlap, there is always overlap, but to go around thinking your special for noticing this overlap and arguing your awesome progressive ideas, trying to be edgy and inspiring us to open our minds to everything (dude!), is an indication of a developmental regression.  The same kind you'll see in acid junkies before they burn out.  You've noticed this little flaw and so you've flown off the handle to the opposite extreme condemning the whole system that works just fine for everyone, good job.

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RE: Most Favourite 4X Game Ever. - 2/3/2011 7:30:43 PM   
Zakhal


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Gertjan

Why SotS? I found the ship combat too micro intensive. If I want to play/see ship combat, I would rather play SINS.

Its not micro intensive at all if you slow the time to a crawl.


quote:

ORIGINAL: ASHBERY76

If was not really the tactical that was great on its own but it was the massive variation in weapons system and the unique effects that were more than just damage numbers that played out in combat.Plus all weapon fire was traced and could miss delfect etc.The game has massive depth that is not apparent until you play it a lot.

This. The first time I played it I thought it awful. Then after six months I gave it another try and found to my suprise it was the best 4x game I had ever played. I wasted 4 days of holiday playing it almost 18 hours per day.

SotS is more like a real 4x wargame while games like galciv are more like economical 4x games.

DW is good too of course although I do have som annoyacnes. The maps are too small. There is not distance in DW. Othervice its great.

< Message edited by Zakhal -- 2/3/2011 7:39:00 PM >


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RE: Most Favourite 4X Game Ever. - 2/3/2011 10:15:12 PM   
martok


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Guys, just ignore diablo. You know it's best not to feed the troll. He's clearly determined to wank over X3 no matter what we say or do, so best not pay any attention to him.




But I digress. Birth of the Federation remains my favorite 4x title, despite its age, moddability issues, and overall buggy-ness. As a life-long fan of both Star Trek and strategy games, it continues to have a strong appeal.

Armada 2526 and Distant Worlds round out my Top Three. The former has very good AI and is easy to play, while I love the latter's depth (the civilian economy is one of the most brilliant features I've yet seen in the genre) and management options.




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RE: Most Favourite 4X Game Ever. - 2/3/2011 10:55:01 PM   
Sabin Stargem

 

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What I like about MOO2 and SOTS is how far they go with applying their ideas, as does Homeworld. One of the things that all three games share is how far they go to seperate how each Empire works. For example, SOTS assigns each race a type of movement unique to them, then gives them odds for accessing various bits of the technology tree. Hivers for example get awesome armor and good ballistics, but their energy weapons are questionable, since they are unlikely to get access to them. Furthermore, the Hivers can teleport their forces to other planets, but intersteller travel to hostile worlds either requires the use of Slower Than Light travel which would take many years, or the unreliable Farcaster that has a range of 10 lightyears, and has a chance of missing the mark by 2LY.

As such, Hivers are all about creating HUGE forces to conquer enemy worlds, but their moves are telegraphed. They also have the toughest ships in terms of durability and possibly guncount, but are lacking in speed and special features that the other races may have. Now, what this has to do with MOO2 is that the races of MOO2 get bonuses, perks, and disadvantages that change how they play. The Lithovores for example don't require food, psychic races are much better at cloak and dagger actions, lucky races just do better with random events, while the Creative race can access all technology through sheer research.


In short, we get races that exaggerate their characteristics, which separates how they play out and gives them character. One of SOTS weaknesses is how we can't make custom races like we can in MOO2, but at least it makes sure that every race is unique and viable. SOTS also uses the shape and hardpoints of the ships to determine how they perform in fights, so picking the right combination of weapons, sections, size, and roles of your ships is extremely important. However, SOTS fails on one count for me - the lack of planetary development. In MOO2, we can literally change worlds into Gaia planets, and place facilities on worlds. These facilities offer relatively simple choices, but the complexity comes from what they do and what order you think that you should do them. GalCiv II also allowed us to customize what we put onto planets, but is flawed because it isn't as simple and elegant - much more repetition of clicking is required to fully improve worlds. Furthermore, I liked that we could basically put everything we want onto a planet in MOO2, but that these worlds would automatically scale their performance according to your population size, characteristics, and what deposits or ruins are on a planet.


Now, this leads me to Distant Worlds and how I feel about it. What I like most about Distant Worlds is that it uses artificial intelligence and real-time mechanics to make the galaxy feel more alive. GalCiv II actually did a good job of this aspect by using political parties, decisions, borders, and so on, but the real-time movement in Distant Worlds helped with making things more vibrant. Unfortunately, I feel that the Development of worlds (MOO2) and the Combat (SOTS), or the Politics (GalCiv II) when compared to Distant Worlds, is far superior. I don't mean to dismiss the efforts of CodeForce, but I think that by looking at competitors and figuring out how they make things interesting, Codeforce could make Distant Worlds II a far better game than its predecessor.



< Message edited by Sabin Stargem -- 2/3/2011 10:56:48 PM >

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RE: Most Favourite 4X Game Ever. - 2/4/2011 12:46:55 AM   
diablo1

 

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quote:

You've noticed this little flaw and so you've flown off the handle to the opposite extreme condemning the whole system that works just fine for everyone, good job.


Thanks.

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RE: Most Favourite 4X Game Ever. - 2/4/2011 1:13:02 AM   
Zakhal


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Has anyone tried SotS ACM mod? It looks very impressive. Think I have my weekend planned now:

quote:

ACM Mod features:
  • 19-branched tech-tree (Over 300 techs to develop!).
  • great number of new weapons (including 3-barrelled versions of large weapons, heavy beams and torpedo launchers for projector mounts, 4 new siege weapons such as plasma annihilator and stellar converter, new missile-like torpedoes and many other).
  • new human ship models (all human models, exept stations, were replaced).
  • fast and nible police cutters (gunships).
  • new sections (CR fixed mount comsections that use spinal mounts as main weapons, DE repair and salvage ships for earlier tech salvaging, DOOMSTAR - huge DN based ships acting as flagships and siege weapon platforms).
  • CR beam platforms (CR based platforms with heavy weapons mounted on a huge turret. These weapons could be either heavy beams, projectors or 3-barrelled versions of normal large weapons).
  • CR drone platforms.
  • DN siege platforms (DN based enormous satellites that have a single siege weapon mount to deal with enemy DNs and DOOMSTARS).
  • three types of drones instead of one.
  • replaced swarmer weapons and explosions.
  • totally new explosion, engine and missile/torpedo trail effects.
  • reworked planetary assaults: planets now do not launch missiles, all weapons have reduced damage to planets (~1000 times lower), armor sections now can carry a variety of bombs, dropships are introduced to allow capturing of enemy colonies.
  • improved shielding technology. Shields are now more efficient, but they cost several times more research to develop.
  • new graphics, sounds and texts.


http://mos-rsi.ru/upload/stellar.jpg
http://www.okim.nickersonm.com/sots/newds.jpg
http://mos-rsi.ru/upload/liird.jpg

http://okim.nickersonm.com/sots/manual.html
http://www.kerberos-productions.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=16&t=6835



< Message edited by Zakhal -- 2/4/2011 1:15:34 AM >


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(in reply to diablo1)
Post #: 89
RE: Most Favourite 4X Game Ever. - 2/4/2011 1:21:02 AM   
Raap

 

Posts: 404
Joined: 1/12/2011
Status: offline
Can't really say I ever got into SotS. Just felt rather shallow, gameplay-wise, and I think I disliked the UI/camera or some such.

(in reply to Zakhal)
Post #: 90
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