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93k resource short in Japan - how to cover?

 
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93k resource short in Japan - how to cover? - 2/5/2010 4:00:18 AM   
jackyo123

 

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I've made about 80% of my merchant fleet hauling resources from PA, Shimoneski, Hakodata, Sapporo, and Shibuka, to the various Honshu Ports (also all oil runs from Palembang, Balikp, Tarakan run resources as well) -

and yet I cannot steadily meet the 93k shortfall. To do so, about 60 ships must be landing EACH DAY in Honshu (figuring at a port size 9/10, a ship offloads roughly 1500 tons of resources). Since you start with roughly 200 merchies - only about 2/3 can be in transit or refilling at any one time. But in actuality, I find i usually have 500k in resources moving between the ports and Honshu, but am only steadily landing about 50k / turn. And yes, ive built the source ports and sent naval support there.

Is there a 'trick' to accomplishing meeting the shortfall? I am in mid 42, and am seriously worried about my resource situation (my oil and fuel situation is ok, as i am extremely judicious about wasting fuel on unnecessary voyages and i usually can drain all the oil anyplace save palembang can produce). Are the 'seasoned' JFB's able to consistently meet the 93k shortfall?
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RE: 93k resource short in Japan - how to cover? - 2/5/2010 5:02:21 AM   
jwilkerson


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Well I certainly include Formosa and Indochina as resource sources from day one - that will give you another 100K resources every few days. I've not had to shut down any production yet - our game (Tony, Rob, Nik and Joe) is in July '42.

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RE: 93k resource short in Japan - how to cover? - 2/5/2010 5:04:52 AM   
n01487477


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Jackyo123,
I have no problems pulling the required amount.

If you want me to look at how you have organised your convoys, I will ... as you know I work with Tracker and have a fairly good grasp on witp economics... PM me if you want my email address.



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RE: 93k resource short in Japan - how to cover? - 2/5/2010 5:20:56 AM   
jackyo123

 

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thanks Damian - yes, I would - will pm you. On some turns they get there - but on too many, they dont.

I was running convoys much more out of singapore and Hong Kong early game - but I read a bunch of threads about 'you can get all your resources for Japan' from Hokkaido, Kyushu, and Port Arthur. So ive reorganized them - yes the runs are shorter, but i think the load time is a killer at those size6 ports. Maybe once Ive gotten Shibuku up to size8, and the 2 Hokkaido ports to 6/7 (their max) the supplies will more more quickly.

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RE: 93k resource short in Japan - how to cover? - 2/5/2010 5:22:51 AM   
CapAndGown


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Between Manchuria, Hokaido, and Sakhalin you have almost met your needs. You can also put together micro convoys (2x xAKLs) from Anami and Naga. Formosa is another source. These will still not be enough. So every once in a while, a slug of resources from Indochina would be nice. And there are resources scattered about the Philipines. Once you have secured those, set up little convoys between those centers and bases on Luzon, while a bigger convoy shuttles between Manila and the HI.


< Message edited by cap_and_gown -- 2/5/2010 5:26:02 AM >

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RE: 93k resource short in Japan - how to cover? - 2/5/2010 5:26:37 AM   
CapAndGown


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Another thing: don't just run one convoy between ports, run two so that one is loading and the other is unloading. The Port Arthur-Fuokoka shuttle loads and unloads extremely fast. Also, don't have all the convoys going to the same port where they might stack up. If a TF cannot dock, it loads and unloads extremely slowly. Size your convoys to just under the docking size and make sure that they will not be running into each other at the same port.

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RE: 93k resource short in Japan - how to cover? - 2/5/2010 6:03:47 AM   
stuman


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quote:

ORIGINAL: cap_and_gown

Between Manchuria, Hokaido, and Sakhalin you have almost met your needs. You can also put together micro convoys (2x xAKLs) from Anami and Naga. Formosa is another source. These will still not be enough. So every once in a while, a slug of resources from Indochina would be nice. And there are resources scattered about the Philipines. Once you have secured those, set up little convoys between those centers and bases on Luzon, while a bigger convoy shuttles between Manila and the HI.



That is what I do and so far so good ( about mid '42 here ).

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RE: 93k resource short in Japan - how to cover? - 2/5/2010 2:37:46 PM   
ny59giants


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I am using 3 Engineer/Construction units from Manchuria to expand Hakodate's port to max. They will next go to Sapporo, Kushiro, and finally to Shikuka. While I was waiting for enough PPs to buy them out, they expanded Fusan to size 8 port after taking the rail.

I got an Excel spread sheet from Mike Solli with the basic Cargo TF ship composition to/from Sakkalin, Hokkaido, Korea/Manchuria, and China. I would check out his AAR and the War room to see if this info is posted somewhere.

Sakkalin:  12 Kasu- D (x2); 7 Ehine; 6 Akasi; 3 Akasi; 4 x 1250 capacity TKs.
Sapporo - Hirosaki: 16 Akasi; 17 Ehine
Kushiro - Sendai: 11 Miyati (x3); 10 Gozan
Hakodate - Ominato: 12 Aden
Port Arthur - Shimonoseki: 10 Aden (x2)
Keijo - Shimonoseki: 9 Aden
Shanghai - Shimonoseki: 9 Aden
Fusan - Shimonoseki: 5 Gozan
Tsingtao - Shimonoseki: 9 Aden

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RE: 93k resource short in Japan - how to cover? - 2/5/2010 3:11:09 PM   
Oliver Heindorf


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you did updateed your game to the latest hotfix did you ?

an error in the code can cause loss of resources if they reach 1.000.000 in a base. the game did it twice to me.

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RE: 93k resource short in Japan - how to cover? - 2/5/2010 3:37:57 PM   
CapAndGown


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I have posted a illustrated picture of my resource set up in my AAR. You can find it by following this link (witpqs will kindly refrain from clicking. ) Resource Convoy Illustration

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RE: 93k resource short in Japan - how to cover? - 2/5/2010 5:32:17 PM   
Mynok


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Don't forget a key point: as Japan, you need to ship in MORE than you use to build up a reserve for the late war. The longer you keep things going, the better.

Same for all the other important economic ingredients.


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RE: 93k resource short in Japan - how to cover? - 2/8/2010 4:54:41 PM   
jackyo123

 

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I am getting closer now - i suspect that once Hakodate reaches size 7 (its max) and my naval support x 240 arrives (another week) I will be ok.

As of now, my convoys basically run like this:

OIL
Palembang > Osaka (2 convoys)
Palembang > Tokyo (2 convoys)
Palembang > Kobe
Miri > Tokyo
Miri > Yokohama
Brunei > Tokyo (2 convoys)
Balipikipan > Osaka (2 convoys)
Balipikipan > Hiroshima
Boela > Manilla > Tokyo
The other small 'B' east indies island > Manilla to Tokyo
Tarakan > Hiroshima
Shikuka > Ominamata
Kyushu (forgot port name) > Fukoke



My Fuel Convoys:
Palembang > Manilla (2 convoys)
Palembang > Truk (2 convoys)
Palembang > Tokyo (2 convoys)
Balipikipan > Baldepolab
Balipikipan > Tokyo
Soerbaja > all small DEI islands
Truk > (all small islands, about 2k fuel per month per island with troops on it)
Truk > Rabaul (2 convoys)
Tokyo > Truk (2 convoys)
Tokyo > Ryuku islands
Rabaul > (all small spots in the Solomons and southern New Guinea - maybe 2k / month or two)

Tokyo is the hub for fuel shipments to all islands within about a 1000 mile radius (just 'inside' the Marianas chain). Truk is the hub for shipments in the mid pacific. Rabaul for the south Pacific. Palembang and Soerbaja for the DEI.

Convoy ship selection based on speed and range. There are 10-12 knot convoys, 13-15 knot convoys, and 16 knots and up convoys.


Resource Convoys:
Shikuka > Honshu (6 convoys in total, about 150k tons, going to bases Nigata, Sendai, Tokyo, Ominamoto, and Yokohama). Ive currently got Shikuku up to level 7 port, and have 48 naval support there. Sorted by speed (range not an issue).

Kyushu > Honshu - dont remember the port name in Kyushu or Honshu, but they are like 2 hexes apart. I run one 10k convoy here, with no protection (i think besides the hokaido honshu runs, this is my only convoy larger than about 8k that I run un-escorted).

Hokkaido > Honshu (8 convoys (maybe 160k tonnage) going from Hokadata and Sapporo to Ominamoto, Nigata, Tokyo, Sendai, and Yokohoma). This is a bottleneck for me - Hokadata maxes I believe at level 7; Ive got tons of naval support there, but it is still taking too long to load up my convoys. Will eventually redirect several to Shikuku once it hits level 8).

Port Arthur > Honshu (10 convoys, about 200k tonnage) - most go to the port on the northwest tip of Honshu (forget the name, but its a size 9/10 port), Kobe, Hiroshima, and Osaka. Sorted by Speed (range not an issue).

Korea > Honshu (3 convoys, maybe 15k tons, mostly smaller ships with about 1000-1500 tons capacity. most originate from Fusan, but there is a mid-island port as well that seems to always have about 30k in resources in stock).

Hong Kong > Tokyo (2 convoy, 140k). These convoys run supplies from Tokyo, and bring resources on the return trip. They are loaded manually, as there is no way to automate this. I wish there was!! Thank the developers for the ability to name the convoys - wouldnt be able to do this without that.

Manilla > Tokyo (4 convoys, with some tankers onboard). I run mixed fuel/resource convoys from Manilla to Tokyo. Manilla is my dumping ground for all short haulers that dont have the legs to reach honshu from the DEI. My haul out of Manilla is roughly 80k of resources/fuel, split among 4 convoys.

The remaining tonnage is used for manual convoys. I often run supply drops to Shanghai from Osaka, and pick up resources going the other way. I run the occassional pickup from places like Davao, or Saigon, but not much tonnage.

My AP's are all dedicated to troop movements for now - Ive got enough sealift for about 2 divisions. Most of my AK-T's are on cargo duty, but I try to use them near the home islands, so i can quickly pkup troops in an emergency. Ditto for Soerbaja, which, along with Singapore, are my 2 'bastions' in the DEI. The cargo moving around there consists of at least 2 brigades worth of sealift capacity, so I can move troops out in a hurry if necessary.

Supply Convoys:
Wont list these. Suffice to say, all remaining ships are on cargo supply duty. Tokyo supplies all spots out to the Marianas, and makes dedicated runs to Truk (mixed with fuel); Truk supplies mid Pac. Rabaul supplies SouthPac. Manilla supplies the PI. Balipikipan uses its excess capactiy for Java and the Sumatran islands.



I am in the process of moving many shipping engineer regiments and construction units back to my key undeveloped ports, to speed up their build up rate (Palembang, Shikuka, Hakodate, Balipikipan, Miri, Boela, Rabaul, etc). I would like to see them maxed out before the end of 1942 if possible. Ive got something like 140 engineers working some of the spots, and it goes pretty quickly with those numbers.

Early on, I converted about 10 or 15 Amc's and some lame 170ton cargo ships to PB's. While these ships are pretty lame, and slow, they are perfectly fine for escorting a 10 to 14 knot convoy. They are totally useless for the 18 knot convoys, so those require an 'E' or a DD.

Hope this list helps someone!

< Message edited by jackyo123 -- 2/8/2010 5:04:34 PM >

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RE: 93k resource short in Japan - how to cover? - 2/8/2010 5:08:16 PM   
jackyo123

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Oliver Heindorf

you did updateed your game to the latest hotfix did you ?

an error in the code can cause loss of resources if they reach 1.000.000 in a base. the game did it twice to me.



I updated to hotfix 3, which was released on Jan3.

Is there a new one out?

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RE: 93k resource short in Japan - how to cover? - 2/8/2010 5:10:15 PM   
d0mbo

 

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Good info, thanks.

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RE: 93k resource short in Japan - how to cover? - 2/8/2010 6:00:10 PM   
Nomad

 

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I thought the Kyushu and Honshu were linked by major road/railroad? I think it was updated in patch 1 or 2. I think I remember seeing Kyushu gaining and losing a bunch of resources that I was not shipping. I can look tonight.

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RE: 93k resource short in Japan - how to cover? - 2/8/2010 6:25:34 PM   
CapAndGown


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Shikoku, Honshu, and Kyushu are all linked by rail. They can be treated as one unit. I know in my tracker regions file I have just combined them in one overall "honshu" region.

Also, your TF set up seems rather inefficient. I would set up a spoke and hub system. Little, short distance convoys haul stuff to nearby terminals while max size convoys haul from the local hub to the HI. So Singapore can serve as a hub for the oil on Sumatra and Sarawak. While a large convoy or two hauls the stuff from Singapore to HI.

You should not be shipping fuel out from the HI. It should be going from the DEI to Truk and Rabaul.

Keep in mind that the fewer ships you use, the less need there is for fuel. Currently, I am not using any xAKL in resource convoys.


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RE: 93k resource short in Japan - how to cover? - 2/8/2010 6:45:09 PM   
jackyo123

 

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The fuel hauls from the home islands to the Kuriles and the Rkyus are small and short-term. I calculated out the time cost of shipping fuel from Tokyo to, say, Paramushiro or Saipan (where I have an AKE stationed), versus hauling it from Palembang - too long. I can have better results hauling to Tokyo and then using my extremely short hoppers to the surrounding islands.

I dont see how its possible that Hokkaido is connected via rail to Honshu - I have over 300k resources in Hokkaido, but was short about 50k every turn in Tokyo until I started the Hokkaido runs. No more shortages.

If in fact it turns out that there is indeed a rail-ferry connection, I will send those ships to Shikuku.

Can anyone confirm this? Does Hokkaido auto-ship by rail to Honshu?

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RE: 93k resource short in Japan - how to cover? - 2/8/2010 6:49:38 PM   
Nomad

 

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Hoikkaido is not connected by any means to Honshu. the other three islands are connected.

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RE: 93k resource short in Japan - how to cover? - 2/8/2010 7:12:01 PM   
jackyo123

 

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cool thanks. I will reroute my kyushu transports to Port Arthur and hokkaido

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RE: 93k resource short in Japan - how to cover? - 2/8/2010 7:22:26 PM   
CapAndGown


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One other thing: the manual states that naval support points do not help in the loading rates for either oil or resources. They are good for troop, fuel, and supply loads. They are also, apparently required to rearm ships even if an AKE is present. I would team up AKEs and naval support squads in order to provide rearming points for your warships. Also use them at supply hubs for various regions, and at outlying ports where you want to repair ships that have been banged up on the front line.

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RE: 93k resource short in Japan - how to cover? - 2/9/2010 2:59:49 PM   
jackyo123

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: cap_and_gown

One other thing: the manual states that naval support points do not help in the loading rates for either oil or resources. They are good for troop, fuel, and supply loads. They are also, apparently required to rearm ships even if an AKE is present. I would team up AKEs and naval support squads in order to provide rearming points for your warships. Also use them at supply hubs for various regions, and at outlying ports where you want to repair ships that have been banged up on the front line.




are you certain about the AKE requireing naval support? That has not been my experience -

I as getting the 'unable to fully rearm' messages for my ASW forces at Palembang, until I brought an AKE in - same thing at Shikuku. Neither had any Naval Support, just the AKE.

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