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New computer - 1/18/2010 10:54:58 PM   
goodwoodrw


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g'day folks,
I/m in for a new computer Primarily for gaming, what's general consensus, dual or quad core, my gaming is CMSF and all the popular Matrix games eg WITP, etc etc got about $1800 Aus to spend any specific recommendations would be appreciated.

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RE: New computer - 1/19/2010 5:10:35 AM   
killroyishere

 

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You don't need a new hotrod computer for $1800 to play Matrix games of CMSF. I'd suggest investing in a nice laptop to play them on if you're going to spend that kind of money.
But, if you're buying for the future then yes quad core i7 series as it no longer uses a FSB system and go with a 64bit operating system Vista or Win7 so that you can upgrade easily with memory to 24gb on some boards and be able to use the newer SLI or Crossfire video systems of several video cards at once. Video card wise though I'm a Nvidia fan I'm starting to lean towards ATI Raedon because that card seems to have less issues with older games than Nvidia cards do post 7600.
I have an i7 920 with 6gb quad core 64bit OS and a 9800GT video card and everything runs great for this less than $1000 system. (monitor not included).

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RE: New computer - 1/19/2010 6:19:16 AM   
Scott_WAR

 

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killroy is 100% correct you do not need a top of the line PC for Matrix games,...or pretty much ANY wargame. Of course the better the PC the faster turns are processed,..which in some games can be HUGE.

But, if you play any other type games,......or may possibly play an MMO or simulation type game in the future,....then building a PC that can handle it wouldnt be too bad of an idea so you wouldnt need to upgrade to play one or two specific games.

I am about to build a PC and here is what I have settled on so far. Its around $1500, USD....without a monitor.


http://secure.newegg.com/WishList/PublicWishDetail.aspx?WishListNumber=8655289

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RE: New computer - 1/19/2010 6:28:32 AM   
Bison36

 

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Nice rig Scott. I've got the same processor in my gaming rig with xfire 4890's. Personally I'm an ATI guy and if I was going to spend that much on a gpu I'd go with the ATI HD 5870 for a little more. It is without question the fastest gpu on the market plus you'd get the AMD/ATI platform setup.

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RE: New computer - 1/19/2010 8:25:37 AM   
Scott_WAR

 

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I need to give ATI another chance. I havent bought an ATI card in many years,...since before ATI used unified drivers for their GPU's. I'll look into it,.....thanks.

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RE: New computer - 1/19/2010 3:47:50 PM   
GoodGuy

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Scott_WAR

I am about to build a PC and here is what I have settled on so far. Its around $1500, USD....without a monitor.

http://secure.newegg.com/WishList/PublicWishDetail.aspx?WishListNumber=8655289


I'd drop the Thermaltake HD cooler, although it's not esotericism to employ a HD cooler (like some ppl think), it will cease working within a year, maybe even faster if you smoke.
HDs are supposed to be mounted on the HD bay at the bottom of the case in modern cases, right behind the frontal fan, for max. air flow/cooling. The frame of the Thermaltake fan on top of your HD will reduce that cooling effect. Such a HD fan is usually a really low quality one anyways, plus the heat will deform the fan itself rather quickly, so it doesn't matter whether it has ball-bearings or not. Such fans are somewhat ufeful if the HD resides in one of the 5 3/4 slots, but they then also create a heat build-up near or behind the HD up there.
A HD may cease to work properly above around 60°-65° Celsius, most manufacturers indicate 60°C as max temp, many ppl don't know that. The WD external HD "MyBook" (for Mac?) with passive cooling heats up to 66° C at full load, although the specs indicate 60° C as upper limit, according to some magazines, for example. So, HD cooling IS important.
Lower HD temperatures (way below 60°C, say 40 or below) usually result in more operational reliability (+ longer HD life).

Also, with such a massive video card (if you decide to stick to GeForce.... btw interesting solution: heatpipe AND fans), you have to worry about how to get all the heat out of the case, means you'll get a massive heat build-up, most likely.
So, while we're at it , I'd drop the case too:

Do you really need 5 * 5.3/4" slots? Do you plan to install a floppy drive? I'd go for a case with 3 * 5 3/4 slots, to have a better air flow in the case.
Although it's pretty hip atm to have these transverse bays for the HDs on the case's floor, they also block the air flow to quite some extent. I'd go for a case (I have a LIANLI case) where the HD is still right behind the front panel fan, but supposed to be installed parralel to the side walls, so that it collects the full air flow of the frontal fan, without blocking the air flow with its mounts (bay's side walls).
I'd then get some tiny shock absorber rings (natural rubber) which you should put between HD and bay, otherwise the noise of the HD might be somewhat disturbing, if you don't isolate the HD acoustically.

Your video card's fans will collect a shyteload of dirt and dust through the bottom air way on the left side-panel, if you don't install an air filter pad right behind it.

The Zalman CPU fan, customer reviews:

quote:

"At full speed the fan is quite noisy and there is some wobble of the fan mount. It is not a problem for me as I do not run it that way."

"In hindsight I ought to have attached the fan connector and the 2x4 EPS12V power connector before mounting the cooler. The connectors were impossible for me to reach afterwards. I finally had to ask someone with small hands to plug them in for me."

"May not fit in some cases - make sure you measure space from top of board to side of case before ordering. I have an Antec 900 and it has about 6cm of clearance.
-Requires board to be removed to install - easy install if initial build, might be frustrating to upgrade"

"Cons: It's TALL. Make SURE you have room for it."

"Cons: Perhaps I got a slightly whacked one, but the fan seems louder than I had expected, even with the 4 pin configuration. The BIOS is all set up to control it, but it was still loud. I put the in-line resistor provided on, and that helped."

"Other Thoughts: When I first installed this I noticed a high pitched whine when it was under load. It started bothering me after a while so I dropped Zalman an email. They responded quickly and with a real email that was written by someone who read mine. I love that! Form letters from customer service departments bum me out, it makes me feel like it's going to take weeks to solve a simple problem. They sent me a new fan for free and the whine is gone. Great cooler, great customer service!"

"Other Thoughts: MAKE SURE you take measurements of your case before you buy this thing. It is HUGE. I've got around 1" of clearance between the heatsink and the side of my tower."

"Other Thoughts: RMA'd it and got a Cooler Master V8, as it seems to have a simpler design that is less susceptible to the UPS man's bad days."


< Message edited by GoodGuy -- 1/19/2010 5:07:00 PM >


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(in reply to Scott_WAR)
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RE: New computer - 1/19/2010 8:19:48 PM   
Scott_WAR

 

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Thanks for the advice Goodguy. I threw in the HD cooler and surge protector as an afterthought. As for the case,...there are SOOO many cases, I just settled on the first one that had the fans I wanted where I wanted them that wasnt too expensive. Its probably a good idea to look a little more to get a case thats more suited for what I am building. I wont even have a floppy drive in the PC,.....I have an old one I can throw in if I ever need to. The zalman fan,...yeah I read about it being tall,..... I think one of the reviewers for the case I am getting said they used the same fan and didnt have issues with space. I may look at other heatsink/fans as well.

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RE: New computer - 1/20/2010 9:38:45 AM   
goodwoodrw


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With win 7 do I buy a 32 or 64 bit?

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RE: New computer - 1/20/2010 10:23:41 AM   
Lützow


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Always 64 bit for a computer with 4GB+ RAM.

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RE: New computer - 1/20/2010 11:30:20 AM   
JudgeDredd


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quote:

ORIGINAL: BASB

With win 7 do I buy a 32 or 64 bit?

As far as I am aware, when you buy Windows 7, it comes with 32 and 64 bit in the box. If you want to utilise more than 4GB Ram, then definitely use the 64 bit version. I'd recommend using the 64bit version anyway. I've not had any "64 bit related" issues with any of my games. I am unable to plug my Samsung G600 into my PC because they haven't produced 64 bit drivers yet and I couldn't install ZoneAlarm because there was no 64 bit version...apart from those two things the 64 bit system is tickety-boo

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RE: New computer - 1/20/2010 12:36:32 PM   
Scott_WAR

 

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Ok, changed cases, dropped the HD cooler, and went with a different heatsink and fan (the new one seems like it works really well, although some people seem to have difficaulty installing it. This is my 4rth PC I am building myself, so I think I can handle it.)

http://secure.newegg.com/WishList/PublicWishDetail.aspx?WishListNumber=8655289


What do you think of the case Goodguy?,...I loooked at the LIAN-LI cases,..and they really seem to be great cases,.... Any other comments are welcomed.

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RE: New computer - 1/20/2010 1:30:48 PM   
goodwoodrw


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So all Matrix games will run with a 64 bit o/s. and what about ms word etc I'm still using 2000 will that be ok too?

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RE: New computer - 1/20/2010 4:33:56 PM   
JudgeDredd


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Not totally sure. As I said, I've had a couple of issues, but all my Matrix games that I have work. That doesn't mean they all will

I don't know the intracacies of the differences between 32/64 bit...more registers available for storing? Can't remember all that from my college days, but I do know it allows you to use more than 3.25GB ram.

Like I said, if you get Windows 7, you get both (or you do in the UK...or at least I did). If you don't need to utilise the extra Ram, then install 32 bit...personally, I'm glad I went to 64 bit. Very happy camper here

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RE: New computer - 1/20/2010 4:47:30 PM   
Bison36

 

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I've not had any issues with any of the Matrix games I've installed on my Vista 64 system. As long as the game is loaded into the X86 Programs file, there shouldn't be an issue. (I believe this is one of the Nappy games that had issues, but if you check the tech forum for your games any issues or work arounds have most likely been posted) The main advantage atm for a 64bit system is high system required activities like video editing. That being said more developers are taking advantage of the 64 bit capabilities. As a side note on the new ATI cards, they are directx 11 ready if that matters at all to you.

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RE: New computer - 1/20/2010 9:18:16 PM   
GoodGuy

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Scott_WAR

Ok, changed cases, dropped the HD cooler, and went with a different heatsink and fan (the new one seems like it works really well, although some people seem to have difficaulty installing it. This is my 4rth PC I am building myself, so I think I can handle it.)

http://secure.newegg.com/WishList/PublicWishDetail.aspx?WishListNumber=8655289


That CPU heatsink looks really good, but the price kinda hmm, makes it suspicious, eheh, means I'd get a better fan for it, just like that one customer suggested.

I don't know Rosewill, but some customers said their power supplies were DOA. Also, that thing delivers only 20 Ampére on the 12 Volt lines (eg. you need 16A just for an old GeForce 7600 GT, already), so I'd go for an ENERMAX power supply. They deliver 30A and use to turn out the most stable power supplies in test magazines. Plus they come with hook and loop fasteners AND the power cables are modular (means YOU decide how many power cables occupy your case), with only the ATX power cable being the only fixed one, IIRC.
I've got an Enermax Modu82+ (625 W) last year, and I love it.

This comes pretty close to my Enermax PSU:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817194039&cm_re=enermax_power_supply_modular-_-17-194-039-_-Product
It features a 130mm fan (more efficient and way more quiet than Rosewill's two 80mm fans, most likely).

quote:

What do you think of the case Goodguy?,...I loooked at the LIAN-LI cases,..and they really seem to be great cases,.... Any other comments are welcomed.


That's my case:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811112099&cm_re=lian_li_case-_-11-112-099-_-Product

.. and I mounted a spare Enermax fan (which I had actually reserved for my old case, as it got terribly hot in there) under the air way on top of the case. Provides extra "safety" in summer.

Since it's ALL aluminium (it's got protective plastic casings on interior edges, some of them are really sharp), it's got better heat conducting abilities.
Great case for that price. HD is mounted parallel to the side panels, for max airflow.
With the case you picked, the power supply would be at the bottom, so you'd have to pick the Rosewill or a similar PSU with 2nd fan at the back panel (inside), as the Enermax Rev's 130mm fan is at the bottom, and I'm not sure if you could mount it upside down; a bottom power supply is supposed to dispose the heat coming from the HD, not the cards, anyways.

You picked a good case, and since the PSU would be at the bottom, the heat from the CPU will be shoveled out of the case with that massive rear case fan.
I am not sure whether the heatsink would fit up there, though, it's still big, plus the top of the case may heat up.
Whatever case you pick, make sure that the heatsink is Phenom-certified (I could only pick between 2 heatsinks last year, as these were the only ones that were AMD-certified for use with Phenoms). You might want to check AMDs website or do some research for cert'ed heatsinks/cooling solutions.
With such a heatsink, always install the fan first (no matter if original fan or upgrade fan, before you put it on the CPU. The proc. die might just break if you work on a mounted heatsink.

< Message edited by GoodGuy -- 1/20/2010 9:43:04 PM >

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RE: New computer - 1/20/2010 11:41:55 PM   
Scott_WAR

 

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Yeah I read a few of the reviews about that heat sink. It has extra clips so you can mount a fan on BOTH sides of the cooling fins. I was thinking about doing that, and getting 2 fans for it since I want them both to run at the same RPM. Good point about the AMD certification,...I remember checking that the last system I build,..need to do it again before I order.

I'll look closer at the power supply. I will not be adding anything to this system later on, and with 1 HD, 1 DVD drive and 1 Vid card,..it shouldnt really pull that much power, but better safe than sorry.


EDIT---- I was looking closer at the case I am getting and I noticed there is a grill on the bottom of the case for the power supply. I am wondering if a power supply with a fan on the bottom (designed for top mounted) might actually be a good thing.

< Message edited by Scott_WAR -- 1/20/2010 11:48:28 PM >

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RE: New computer - 1/21/2010 12:16:52 AM   
gunny

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: BASB

g'day folks,
I/m in for a new computer Primarily for gaming, what's general consensus, dual or quad core, my gaming is CMSF and all the popular Matrix games eg WITP, etc etc got about $1800 Aus to spend any specific recommendations would be appreciated.


The newer Intel quad core are the most bang for the buck right now. Specifically the i7 920 intel CPU. Its inferior predececessor, the i5, sold for $450 but the i7 920 which came out last year sells for about $280, has hyper threading (8), in other words a big parallel pipe for crunching data. From a marketing POV intel is using this low priced yet impressive CPU to nudge out AMD at any price.



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RE: New computer - 1/21/2010 12:41:23 AM   
GoodGuy

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Scott_WAR

I am wondering if a power supply with a fan on the bottom (designed for top mounted) might actually be a good thing.


That's why I told you that the Enermax is not an option for the case you picked.
The Enermax PSUs are ideal for the Lianli I have. Check out the link above.


_____________________________

"Aw Nuts"
General Anthony McAuliffe
December 22nd, 1944
Bastogne

---
"I've always felt that the AA (Alied Assault engine) had the potential to be [....] big."
Tim Stone
8th of August, 2006

(in reply to Scott_WAR)
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RE: New computer - 1/21/2010 5:12:52 AM   
V22 Osprey


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For a $1500, you could get a core i7 with SLI GTX 280s and call it a day.Desktops are cheap now.

For a laptop, the MSI GT279 has a Modility HD 4850 1GB with an overdrive mode that overclocks the dual core CPU to 2.93 Ghz for $1300.

< Message edited by V22 Osprey -- 1/21/2010 5:13:28 AM >


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RE: New computer - 1/21/2010 10:17:46 AM   
Scott_WAR

 

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Yeah, I have looked at prebuilt PC's..........a similiar system with AMD runs around $3000. A Similiar system with i7 runs around $3,500. Sorry,... I'll stick with building my own and saving around $1500.

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RE: New computer - 1/21/2010 11:33:45 AM   
goodwoodrw


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V22 obviously you haven't purchased computer Hardware in Oz, I know the Oz buck is around .92 cents to the US dollar, things take a while to catch up down here. I bought a rig for $A1550, with the current exchange rate that would equate to around 1400 bucks then you got freight. Another small factor is that I live in the bush and there is less competition. Even net purchase saving are negated by the freight

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RE: New computer - 1/21/2010 12:40:49 PM   
Scott_WAR

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: BASB

V22 obviously you haven't purchased computer Hardware in Oz, I know the Oz buck is around .92 cents to the US dollar, things take a while to catch up down here. I bought a rig for $A1550, with the current exchange rate that would equate to around 1400 bucks then you got freight. Another small factor is that I live in the bush and there is less competition. Even net purchase saving are negated by the freight



Wow, just realized I was hijacking your thread sorry.

The best way to go would be to build the best you can for your budget. The more years you get out of it the better.

Go to newegg, or whatever vendor you like, and just start throwing parts you like in the cart, if it costs too much, trade out what you dont find necessary till it gets around your budget.

(in reply to goodwoodrw)
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