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Can Invasion TFs be driven off?

 
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Can Invasion TFs be driven off? - 6/23/2002 5:37:30 PM   
ADavidB


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In Pacwar, invasion fleets tended to be "skittish" and would often abort an invasion without even tryin if there were one or more opposing surface combat fleets in the area, and sometimes even if there was a only strong AC attack. But I've yet to see an invasion fleet turn back in UV due to the presence of surface or air opposition. I've seen at least partial landings even when the invasion fleet has been intercepted and scattered with damage to member ships.

Is it possible to interdict and turn back invasion fleets in UV before they unload troops? If so, what does it take to do it, other than to sink the entire invasion fleet?

Thanks -

Dave B
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- 6/23/2002 5:55:11 PM   
Odin


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I´m shure its the TF commander who decided between runaway and landing...more agressive leaders are harder to send home.

When you see a Invasion force coming and you are able to give them enough pressure, they will go home. Thats works (mostly) for me.

(in reply to ADavidB)
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- 6/23/2002 6:34:00 PM   
ADavidB


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[QUOTE]Originally posted by Odin
[B]I´m shure its the TF commander who decided between runaway and landing...more agressive leaders are harder to send home.

When you see a Invasion force coming and you are able to give them enough pressure, they will go home. Thats works (mostly) for me. [/B][/QUOTE]

By pressure, do you mean surface TFs, air attacks or both? In Pacwar it was enough to just have a surface combat fleet in the same hex to scare off the invasion forces unless they also had a surface combat fleet which could drive your combat TF off.

Thanks -

Dave B

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- 6/23/2002 6:41:03 PM   
Odin


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Hm, i think its both. But to chicken from a surface TF this invasion force have to spot this TF first. Air attacks were a lot better i think.

But of course, if the enemy has enough air power and other stuff close at hand, it will proceed anyhow, feeling protected.

When this Invasion Force is sailing alone, of course it could be otherwise.

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Response... - 6/23/2002 8:08:28 PM   
Erik Rutins

 

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I have had Transport TFs carrying invasion troops retreat from Surface Combat TFs, but only if Retirement Allowed was set. This is also a good idea if you think the enemy is going to try to sneak a Surface Combat or Bombardment TF into your landing zone. With Retirement Allowed, the Transports get a chance (based on sightings and commander) to pull back without getting caught while unloading.

Regards,

- Erik

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Re: Response... - 6/23/2002 9:00:54 PM   
ADavidB


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[QUOTE]Originally posted by Erik Rutins
[B]I have had Transport TFs carrying invasion troops retreat from Surface Combat TFs, but only if Retirement Allowed was set. This is also a good idea if you think the enemy is going to try to sneak a Surface Combat or Bombardment TF into your landing zone. With Retirement Allowed, the Transports get a chance (based on sightings and commander) to pull back without getting caught while unloading.

Regards,

- Erik [/B][/QUOTE]

Okay, so you can "suicide in" troops regardless of potential opposition as long as you are willing to take losses. That's different from Pacwar and I'll have to keep it in mind.

What that means is that if you are willing to take losses you can grab unoccupied bases almost irrespective of any opposition. This also means that if you want to hang onto any given base, you need to keep some combat troops there just to prevent "suicide runs".

Thanks -

Dave B

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Repel Invasion - 6/23/2002 9:15:48 PM   
Ron Saueracker


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I think I've seen this but I'm not sure. What happenned was an IJN invasion fleet was about to hit the beach at Gili Gili but got involved with a combat TF in GG hex. Suddenly, in the combat reports, a message saying "TF may only unload at a friendly base" was displayed. Obviously, this is not true, as we've all invaded enemy base hexes directly, unless the invasion was called off due to unfriendly force interdiction.

Anyone else see this? (version 1.11)

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Re: Re: Response... - 6/23/2002 9:26:38 PM   
HARD_SARGE

 

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[QUOTE]Originally posted by ADavidB
[B]

Okay, so you can "suicide in" troops regardless of potential opposition as long as you are willing to take losses. That's different from Pacwar and I'll have to keep it in mind.


Dave B [/B][/QUOTE]

Hi Dave B
don't like the term you are useing, if the base is open and undefended, instead of suicide runs, load some troops into some subs and send them in, if the raid works and you take the base, then you can fly in more troops to hold it

also Para's are good at this too, but better vs bases with light defence, such as Eng's and support groups, but they still got a chance to fight there way in

the idea of a suicide TF run worries me, as the other bases in the area should have bombers on them, and they may make the name stick, if it is a close undefended base, think about sending some DD or APD's in, with a fast transport fleet

HARD_Sarge
H.G. Wells had a statement about war games way back when, something to the effect of
"the best thing about war games, is that cardboard soilders do not have cardboard wifes and kids waiting on them to come home"

so, take chances and risks, but don't suicide troops, they got familys too

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Re: Re: Re: Response... - 6/24/2002 12:29:23 AM   
ADavidB


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[QUOTE]Originally posted by HARD_SARGE
[B]

Hi Dave B
don't like the term you are useing, if the base is open and undefended, instead of suicide runs, load some troops into some subs and send them in, if the raid works and you take the base, then you can fly in more troops to hold it

also Para's are good at this too, but better vs bases with light defence, such as Eng's and support groups, but they still got a chance to fight there way in

the idea of a suicide TF run worries me, as the other bases in the area should have bombers on them, and they may make the name stick, if it is a close undefended base, think about sending some DD or APD's in, with a fast transport fleet

HARD_Sarge
H.G. Wells had a statement about war games way back when, something to the effect of
"the best thing about war games, is that cardboard soilders do not have cardboard wifes and kids waiting on them to come home"

so, take chances and risks, but don't suicide troops, they got familys too [/B][/QUOTE]

HS - I tend to use my subs to interdict enemy activity zones, so I don't usually have them available for troop transport. As far as APDs and Destroyers go, if they get caught in port it is a "suicide run" anyway.

I'm certainly seeing willingness on the part of the AI in UV to sacrifice troops and ships to take a particular location. This is in stark contrast to Pacwar in which the AI would back off when faced with a superior force on the water or in the air.

In Pacwar, I could be assured that if I were willing to attempt to block an incoming invasion TF by committing one or more ( better more ) surface combat TFs, I would usually be rewarded with the incoming TFs retreating. And when I attempted invasions, if there were superior forces in the same hex, my invasion forces would abort, even if I gave them a "stay and wait" command. But in UV, unless I deliberately give a "retreat at your disgression" command, the ships go in regardless.

In effect, this means that I've got to put troops into any base that I really want to hold, almost irrespective of location, because I'm not assured of stopping an invasion with air and surface forces. This changes my general strategy in UV - I can't afford to leave any potentially useful bases undefended.

I'm going to have to play around with various scenarios and test this out.

Dave B

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- 6/24/2002 1:39:59 AM   
HARD_SARGE

 

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Hi Dave B
well, in the real world, you do not put all your troops out front, so this is the way it should be

so far in my games, I have not seen a JP TF with troops, out side or reinforcement TFs, so do not know how willing the AI is to send out his troops on death rides

do know if there is a CV in the area, most TF's will back off

HARD_Sarge

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Post #: 10
I just answered my own question - 6/24/2002 6:04:27 AM   
ADavidB


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Well, I just re-started scenario 16 ( v 1.11 ) as the Allies again and this time split and sent my surface forces off to Lunga and Gili-Gili simultaneously. I also sent four of my subs to Gili-Gili and the three neighboring hexes, as well the rest of the subs to Raboul, Shortland ( it's so nice having those two fleet subs ), Lunga, Talugi, Lea, and Buna. In addition I started to jockey my Australian-based air squadrens into better positions.

Sure enough, the AI sent a TF down to Gili-Gili which was spotted by coast watchers, planes and my subs. And as a nice touch, my Hudsons in PM got off some hits while the TF was still a few hexes off of Gili-Gili. This allowed me to get a small cruiser squadren into position for a night battle, in which it appeared to catch the Japanese fleet by surprise and badly damaged it for almost no hits on the Allied ships. ( As was the usual case in Pacwar, the AI didn't bother to have a covering combat TF to try to intercept any surface attack from me. )

The next day the PM airforce got more strikes in, as did my subs. Then to my surprise, instead of trying to land troops, the AI turned and ran, allowing me some more air attacks on the now limping fleet. I didn't sink any ships, but they were all hurting badly. As a bonus, my bigger surface fleet in the Solomons out-gunned a Japanese surface fleet that tried to react to a bombardment of Lunga. Once again, my ships got away with hardly a scratch, while two Japanese heavy cruisers were sunk.

The AI then sat around and licked its wounds for a while, while we both rested up our air forces. Then I made a real rookie move and left Cairns without any air cover, and sure enough the AI got 12 Bettys in to bomb my Western surface fleet, damaging two cruisers and sinking a destroyer. I should have thought about that, because a turn before, to my great surprise, my hudsons got off two raids on transport TFs in RABOUL (!) without any opposition from Zeros! Goes to show you, overconfidence will get you every time.

Dave B:

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