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Newby here...S! and questions - 11/12/2009 8:16:06 AM   
Gen.Hoepner


Posts: 3645
Joined: 9/4/2001
From: italy
Status: offline
Hi all,

long time troller, first time poster in this forum.

I've been following the development of this game for a looooong long time. I'm pretty used to G.G's game being a proud owner of Witp and AE. Unfortunately my free-time has shrank a lot in the last couple of years and i'm not able anymore to play my beloved Witp pbems...and since it's not that rewarding to play WitpAE against AI, i decided to buy this wonder and dedicate my spare time to it.

My first impressions are great. The game - with the beta patch - run smoothly and its mechanics are decently easy to understand and master.

However i do have a couple of questions (all of them regarding BTR '43 long campaign - axis side):

1. Is it worth to produce italian late generation fighters (G.55, MC205 and Re2005)? Those nasty machines consume 2 FIAT engines each and, despite being very manouvreable (sp?) and pretty fast, their durability is somehow crappy...plus the Italians are going to jump out of the war very soon...so why invest energies and time on those planes? Wouldn't it be better to shift all the italian production (and the other factories in occupied-allied countries) to the production of the FW190A-5 (which seems to be the best fighter at the first stage of the war)? My idea was to give the 109-G6s to the allies and to the training groups, while making my frontline german fighters using only 190A5s (for pure dogfight) and 190A6s, the latters with rockets being dedicated only to bomber-attacks. (in this picture my idea is to keep 4 FW190Fs operating and giving the ZG groups the 410, thus eliminating the outmodelled 110)

2. Again about production: With the new patch the R&D has been finally tuned back. Now it's very similar, for what i do understand, to the r&d system used in Witp....there i never invested to much in R&D, considering a waste of resources for the "alea", the risk connected with it....here my concerns are related to the arrival of the newer FW190s (A-8/A-9s, Ds, and Ta152s...)....will the production chains of A-5 and A-6 be changed automatically as soon as these new upgraded models will be available? Or will i have to re-direct manually my whole industrial production?

3. Night warfare: I've studied my NJag squadrons...the 110s are slow and outmodelled...the 88s are stiff but slow...the best machine seems to be the He219 which is produced in very few numbers...Will you suggest to shift the whole Nightfighter production to this Heinkel (maybe keeping some single engine Night-Fighter in some Stabs)? or it's better to keep different kind of machines for different tasks?

4. in the "Production screen" are shown the number of planes delivered to the field and the numbers still in pool...but where is indicated how many planes of a specific type i do produce?

5. When in the industrial production screen.... numbers are considered "daily, weekly or monthly"? I mean when i see "5 FW190 Assembly" ...it means 5 per month, week or day?

6. How the damage an industry suffers changes her production capabilities? For ex. : Industry X produces 5 Macchi parts. It takes a damage of 40...is it still producing? how much?

7. How is determined the speed of the repair of the damaged sites? Dice and roll? a more complex formula?


Thx in advance guys....Great game btw

_____________________________

[image]http://yfrog.com/2m70331348022314716641664j [/image]
Post #: 1
RE: Newby here...S! and questions - 11/12/2009 11:49:25 AM   
Wayn Reinbold

 

Posts: 27
Joined: 2/28/2009
From: Perth (Australia)
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Gen.Hoepner

Hi all,

long time troller, first time poster in this forum.

I've been following the development of this game for a looooong long time. I'm pretty used to G.G's game being a proud owner of Witp and AE. Unfortunately my free-time has shrank a lot in the last couple of years and i'm not able anymore to play my beloved Witp pbems...and since it's not that rewarding to play WitpAE against AI, i decided to buy this wonder and dedicate my spare time to it.

My first impressions are great. The game - with the beta patch - run smoothly and its mechanics are decently easy to understand and master.

However i do have a couple of questions (all of them regarding BTR '43 long campaign - axis side):

1. Is it worth to produce italian late generation fighters (G.55, MC205 and Re2005)? Those nasty machines consume 2 FIAT engines each and, despite being very manouvreable (sp?) and pretty fast, their durability is somehow crappy...plus the Italians are going to jump out of the war very soon...so why invest energies and time on those planes? Wouldn't it be better to shift all the italian production (and the other factories in occupied-allied countries) to the production of the FW190A-5 (which seems to be the best fighter at the first stage of the war)? My idea was to give the 109-G6s to the allies and to the training groups, while making my frontline german fighters using only 190A5s (for pure dogfight) and 190A6s, the latters with rockets being dedicated only to bomber-attacks. (in this picture my idea is to keep 4 FW190Fs operating and giving the ZG groups the 410, thus eliminating the outmodelled 110)

The Re2005 appears to be the best axis fighter at the start of the game. I'm in day four of the BTR'43 Long campaign axis side. My plan was to reequip the entire german fighter force with the Re 2005 (with maybe 9 gruggen of Me 410 as bomber killers), even with the Double engine penalty. Currently converting about 17 assembly plants (singles) to Re2005's. I have one gruppen of Re 2005's being flown by germans and a couple of staffel by Italians. The 17 Assembly plant with at least 17 parts factories, and 34 Engine fractories will produce 17 Re2005 per day, if every thing is un damaged of course. I am running the beta version, the odd thing is that my factories seem to be producing more than the 5 possible Re2005 per day, and 12 of the 17 factories are in their 4th day of production changeover. I have been surprised how well the Me 109 g6 and Fw 190 a5 and a6 have been doing, and I am not so sure changing over to Re2005 is such a good idea. I will persist with it to see how it goes. The aim is to give the axis a good enough aircraft to esure enough pilots survive long enough to man the Ta 152H's that I am researching (I'm devoting about 20 Assembly factors 20 parts factories and 20 engine factories to this. most of these come on line on turn 20)
I've used most of the single factories to convert to the Re.2005


2. Again about production: With the new patch the R&D has been finally tuned back. Now it's very similar, for what i do understand, to the r&d system used in Witp....there i never invested to much in R&D, considering a waste of resources for the "alea", the risk connected with it....here my concerns are related to the arrival of the newer FW190s (A-8/A-9s, Ds, and Ta152s...)....will the production chains of A-5 and A-6 be changed automatically as soon as these new upgraded models will be available? Or will i have to re-direct manually my whole industrial production?
i have the production set on "human". I assume if say the Me 262 becomes available I would have to manually change over assemby plant/engine/parts to this type if I want to make it.


3. Night warfare: I've studied my NJag squadrons...the 110s are slow and outmodelled...the 88s are stiff but slow...the best machine seems to be the He219 which is produced in very few numbers...Will you suggest to shift the whole Nightfighter production to this Heinkel (maybe keeping some single engine Night-Fighter in some Stabs)? or it's better to keep different kind of machines for different tasks?
i think the single engine night fighers are a waste of time. In the old version of BtR I used the He 219 because it had advanced radar, but they have fixed this loophole I've read in other parts of this form that the Ju88 is the best because of its long range, in short I am uncertain at this stage.

4. in the "Production screen" are shown the number of planes delivered to the field and the numbers still in pool...but where is indicated how many planes of a specific type i do produce?
go to the Replacement pool list during the movement phase. It tells you the total number of aircraft per type built so far, and how many spare one are in the pool.


5. When in the industrial production screen.... numbers are considered "daily, weekly or monthly"? I mean when i see "5 FW190 Assembly" ...it means 5 per month, week or day?
These number are per day. as far as i can tell, but as a check you should check the replacement pool totals to be sure that every thing is ok in your production setup.

6. How the damage an industry suffers changes her production capabilities? For ex. : Industry X produces 5 Macchi parts. It takes a damage of 40...is it still producing? how much?
Not sure, but I assume a damage of 40 means the factory is producing at 60% capacity. The manual may shed some light on this

7. How is determined the speed of the repair of the damaged sites? Dice and roll? a more complex formula?
I think the manual talks about this, in terms of so-many % per day repaired.


Thx in advance guys....Great game btw



< Message edited by Wayn Reinbold -- 11/12/2009 12:03:18 PM >

(in reply to Gen.Hoepner)
Post #: 2
RE: Newby here...S! and questions - 11/12/2009 12:36:33 PM   
Hard Sarge


Posts: 22741
Joined: 10/1/2000
From: garfield hts ohio usa
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Wayn Reinbold

quote:

ORIGINAL: Gen.Hoepner

Hi all,

long time troller, first time poster in this forum.

I've been following the development of this game for a looooong long time. I'm pretty used to G.G's game being a proud owner of Witp and AE. Unfortunately my free-time has shrank a lot in the last couple of years and i'm not able anymore to play my beloved Witp pbems...and since it's not that rewarding to play WitpAE against AI, i decided to buy this wonder and dedicate my spare time to it.

My first impressions are great. The game - with the beta patch - run smoothly and its mechanics are decently easy to understand and master.

However i do have a couple of questions (all of them regarding BTR '43 long campaign - axis side):

1. Is it worth to produce italian late generation fighters (G.55, MC205 and Re2005)? Those nasty machines consume 2 FIAT engines each and, despite being very manouvreable (sp?) and pretty fast, their durability is somehow crappy...plus the Italians are going to jump out of the war very soon...so why invest energies and time on those planes? Wouldn't it be better to shift all the italian production (and the other factories in occupied-allied countries) to the production of the FW190A-5 (which seems to be the best fighter at the first stage of the war)? My idea was to give the 109-G6s to the allies and to the training groups, while making my frontline german fighters using only 190A5s (for pure dogfight) and 190A6s, the latters with rockets being dedicated only to bomber-attacks. (in this picture my idea is to keep 4 FW190Fs operating and giving the ZG groups the 410, thus eliminating the outmodelled 110)

if you built 2005 or other plane, when the It give up, you will still be building them, so, if the idea is to man some of the LW units with it, no hassle there

hmmm, wonder why everybody likes the A-5, to be honest, as far as I see it, it is the weakest of the FW's (other then the G and that plane is built for Range) the 109 is better at high alt, then the 190 (the G5/G5/AS are better then the G6, the H-2 two is better then the G5)

I think everybody is too quick to dump off the 109, it is the work horse, and there is a reason why it was

I would keep the 110 around for daylight, it is a nasty plane (just don't let it get close to any real fighters), the 110/410 and then change over the deeper fighters into Heavy models, and you should have AS inside of Germany until early 44



The Re2005 appears to be the best axis fighter at the start of the game. I'm in day four of the BTR'43 Long campaign axis side. My plan was to reequip the entire german fighter force with the Re 2005 (with maybe 9 gruggen of Me 410 as bomber killers), even with the Double engine penalty. Currently converting about 17 assembly plants (singles) to Re2005's. I have one gruppen of Re 2005's being flown by germans and a couple of staffel by Italians. The 17 Assembly plant with at least 17 parts factories, and 34 Engine fractories will produce 17 Re2005 per day, if every thing is un damaged of course. I am running the beta version, the odd thing is that my factories seem to be producing more than the 5 possible Re2005 per day, and 12 of the 17 factories are in their 4th day of production changeover. I have been surprised how well the Me 109 g6 and Fw 190 a5 and a6 have been doing, and I am not so sure changing over to Re2005 is such a good idea. I will persist with it to see how it goes. The aim is to give the axis a good enough aircraft to esure enough pilots survive long enough to man the Ta 152H's that I am researching (I'm devoting about 20 Assembly factors 20 parts factories and 20 engine factories to this. most of these come on line on turn 20)
I've used most of the single factories to convert to the Re.2005


remember, beta production has a bug, you are getting planes before you should be getting them, also, while I like the 2005 and the 55, they are not prefect figthers, the have more weaknesses then the LW fighters do, but I wouldn't look down my nose at them, just would want them to be the "main" fighter being built

2. Again about production: With the new patch the R&D has been finally tuned back. Now it's very similar, for what i do understand, to the r&d system used in Witp....there i never invested to much in R&D, considering a waste of resources for the "alea", the risk connected with it....here my concerns are related to the arrival of the newer FW190s (A-8/A-9s, Ds, and Ta152s...)....will the production chains of A-5 and A-6 be changed automatically as soon as these new upgraded models will be available? Or will i have to re-direct manually my whole industrial production?
i have the production set on "human". I assume if say the Me 262 becomes available I would have to manually change over assemby plant/engine/parts to this type if I want to make it.

what we have now, the AI will look at what it has in units, what it has in stock and it thinks it needs, and then make changes based on that (the player can take over, or override it) the older verison, yea, the AI should start to change over to newer models as they become ready, but it will take some time, to reform the whole LW with new planes


3. Night warfare: I've studied my NJag squadrons...the 110s are slow and outmodelled...the 88s are stiff but slow...the best machine seems to be the He219 which is produced in very few numbers...Will you suggest to shift the whole Nightfighter production to this Heinkel (maybe keeping some single engine Night-Fighter in some Stabs)? or it's better to keep different kind of machines for different tasks?
i think the single engine night fighers are a waste of time. In the old version of BtR I used the He 219 because it had advanced radar, but they have fixed this loophole I've read in other parts of this form that the Ju88 is the best because of its long range, in short I am uncertain at this stage.

well, again, there are reasons for the Singles (and Swift will scream over and over again, if they are used right, they are the best fighters at night), you got the 219, the 154, the 88G, the 388 (if you can get it, it is the best, or would of been) the 262 and the 335 may be pretty good also

depends on your play style or what you want


4. in the "Production screen" are shown the number of planes delivered to the field and the numbers still in pool...but where is indicated how many planes of a specific type i do produce?
go to the Replacement pool list during the movement phase. It tells you the total number of aircraft per type built so far, and how many spare one are in the pool.

also, under the production screen, the last page, it shows you want is needed, that should give you a idea of what is being built, one issue here is, some planes have a higher Priority then others, so if you don't have enough engines being built for all of what you need, some will come first for what you do have


5. When in the industrial production screen.... numbers are considered "daily, weekly or monthly"? I mean when i see "5 FW190 Assembly" ...it means 5 per month, week or day?
These number are per day. as far as i can tell, but as a check you should check the replacement pool totals to be sure that every thing is ok in your production setup.

for production, it is by day for both RAF and LW production, in BTR the Allies get there plane by day, in the BoBs, the LW get there planes every two days

6. How the damage an industry suffers changes her production capabilities? For ex. : Industry X produces 5 Macchi parts. It takes a damage of 40...is it still producing? how much?
Not sure, but I assume a damage of 40 means the factory is producing at 60% capacity. The manual may shed some light on this

I have always known it to be 49% is good and working, 50% is down, so for the Off player, the goal is to at least get to 50% damage on the target you are attacking, with Aircraft production, anything over 50% has a chance to start that factory to disprase

7. How is determined the speed of the repair of the damaged sites? Dice and roll? a more complex formula?
I think the manual talks about this, in terms of so-many % per day repaired.

there is a base chance of repair, per target type (some are easier then others) and then the rolls come in, to see if you hit the chance


Thx in advance guys....Great game btw

thanks, glad you like it




_____________________________


(in reply to Wayn Reinbold)
Post #: 3
RE: Newby here...S! and questions - 11/12/2009 2:57:27 PM   
invernomuto


Posts: 988
Joined: 10/8/2004
From: Turin, Italy
Status: offline
Hi Hard Sarge,
I also thought that Fw190A-6 was one of the best fighter the LW had and in my game I was thinking about changing some bf109 factory to Fw190A-6 one.  How can we see compare altitude performance of a fighters? In WITP-AE fighters have specifics manouver value for each altitude bands (eg. 0-5k, 5k-10k etc). In BTR there is only one manouver value.

Bye!

PS
This game is addicting!



_____________________________


(in reply to Hard Sarge)
Post #: 4
RE: Newby here...S! and questions - 11/14/2009 2:20:17 AM   
Wayn Reinbold

 

Posts: 27
Joined: 2/28/2009
From: Perth (Australia)
Status: offline
This is directed to Hard Sarge
... hmmm, wonder why everybody likes the A-5, to be honest, as far as I see it, it is the weakest of the FW's...
From the performance numbers below

  Fw190A-5: Speed 410, Cruise 298, Max Alt 37400, Climb 2830, Mvr 36, Durab 32, Endure 115
  Fw190A-6: Speed 405, Cruise 305, Max Alt 36500, Climb 2830, Mvr 35, Durab 33, Endure 110
  Fw190A-8: Speed 397, Cruise 300, Max Alt 37400, Climb 2830, Mvr 34, Durab 34, Endure 110
   Bf109G-6: Speed 398, Cruise 330, Max Alt 38550, Climb 3115, Mvr 35, Durab 28, Endure 105
    Re 2005: Speed 421, Cruise 320, Max Alt 37730, Climb 3937, Mvr 36, Durab 28, Endure 129
Spitfire F.IX: Speed 408, Cruise 324, Max Alt 44000, Climb 2800, Mvr 37, Durab 29, Endure 112
Bf109G-10: Speed 428, Cruise 350, Max Alt 41950, Climb 3393, Mvr 37, Durab 28, Endure 105 Available 11/44
Bf109G-14: Speed 405, Cruise 360, Max Alt 40026, Climb 3200, Mvr 38, Durab 28, Endure 105 Available 7/44


I'm not sure why you say the Fw 190A-5 is the weakest of the Fw 190's.The reason why the Fw 190 A-5 is perceived to be the best of the early Fw190's is because the above performance numbers for the Fw 190A-5 are generally higher than the other contemporary Fw's. This assumes the higher these numbers are, the "better" the aircraft is. Given your statement shown in the game, I can only assume there are other attributes, describing aircraft performance that the purchasing public have not been told about.  ooooooh..
The other perceived better plane for the same reasons is when comparing the Re2005 with the Bf 109G-6, the Re 2005 appears to be deficient in Cruise speed and Max Altitude, but a long way in front for max speed, Mvr and Endurance.

Admittedly, quiet apart from all the above verbal diarrhea, when playing the game the Fw190A-6 and Bf 109 G-6 do seem to hold their own against the Spitfire IX's, which surprises me a little bit.

PS Note these numbers were downloaded from this forum rather than taken from the game. I'll check them against the game but I think they're generally correct.

< Message edited by Wayn Reinbold -- 11/16/2009 3:00:19 AM >

(in reply to invernomuto)
Post #: 5
RE: Newby here...S! and questions - 11/14/2009 2:41:54 AM   
kaybayray

 

Posts: 418
Joined: 6/1/2007
Status: offline
Wayn, <S>

Just curious.. How about throwing in the 109 G-10 and G-14 into that sheet? I would be curious to see how the more advanced models of the 109 would compare to the more advanced models of the 190.

Just guessing but that may be where Sarge is coming from. I am not that well versed on their use against Bombers so maybe I am missing something.

Later,
KayBay

_____________________________

It's all Mind Over Matter....
If you dont mind... It dont matter

(in reply to Wayn Reinbold)
Post #: 6
RE: Newby here...S! and questions - 11/14/2009 6:47:06 AM   
Hard Sarge


Posts: 22741
Joined: 10/1/2000
From: garfield hts ohio usa
Status: offline
Cruise speed is more important then top speed

Mvr is better, but it is still going to take a hit when flown at med and above

and it can not use the gun paks

again, it is up to the player to decided which is the best model, or the model that works into there plans best, I just don't think that the A-5 is one of the war winners (great plane, yes, but it is about to be bypassed by other great planes)

a lot of the details on the 190 are always based on one model, so HARD to find good info, that shows each model in detail (most just say 408 top speed) just found some better climb rate info on the A-8, so will correct that)



_____________________________


(in reply to kaybayray)
Post #: 7
RE: Newby here...S! and questions - 11/14/2009 6:37:03 PM   
Rob Brennan UK


Posts: 3685
Joined: 8/24/2002
From: London UK
Status: offline
Hey General !

Long time since we saw you on the WitP (now AE) Forums. Last i heard was your home was hit by lightning and you needed a new 'everything' . good to see your back and i assume well (given your always envious sig pics , lucky man ! ).

Welcome home General ! \salute ..

_____________________________

sorry for the spelling . English is my main language , I just can't type . and i'm too lazy to edit :)

(in reply to Hard Sarge)
Post #: 8
RE: Newby here...S! and questions - 11/15/2009 10:37:03 AM   
Gen.Hoepner


Posts: 3645
Joined: 9/4/2001
From: italy
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Rob Brennan UK

Hey General !

Long time since we saw you on the WitP (now AE) Forums. Last i heard was your home was hit by lightning and you needed a new 'everything' . good to see your back and i assume well (given your always envious sig pics , lucky man ! ).

Welcome home General ! \salute ..



Hi Rob!

Everything is fine! I bought AE but i got overwelmed by it and i simply don't have enough time for playing that game at the moment. i keep on lurking around the forum every now and then tough.
BTR is defenetly more time-friendly than our beloved witp....That lighning was, in a certain way, a gift from the above...it gave me the chance to take a big break from gaming and dedicating to some nice RL stuff...

S! mate

_____________________________

[image]http://yfrog.com/2m70331348022314716641664j [/image]

(in reply to Rob Brennan UK)
Post #: 9
RE: Newby here...S! and questions - 11/16/2009 3:21:18 AM   
Wayn Reinbold

 

Posts: 27
Joined: 2/28/2009
From: Perth (Australia)
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: kaybayray

Wayn, <S>

Just curious.. How about throwing in the 109 G-10 and G-14 into that sheet? I would be curious to see how the more advanced models of the 109 would compare to the more advanced models of the 190.

Just guessing but that may be where Sarge is coming from. I am not that well versed on their use against Bombers so maybe I am missing something.

Later,
KayBay


I've edited my second posting, and added the Bf 109 G-10 and Bf 109 G-14. Note I'm working from an excel spreadsheet that has most, if not all, of the different aircraft models and their ratings for BoB ad BtR, and it appears to match the BtR game at least. This spreadsheet is a compolation of various attachments on this forum. I could try and add this spreadsheet to this string if you like?

< Message edited by Wayn Reinbold -- 11/16/2009 5:29:09 AM >

(in reply to kaybayray)
Post #: 10
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