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Fire and ships in Shipyard.

 
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Fire and ships in Shipyard. - 10/17/2009 12:49:48 PM   
grisouille_slith

 

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I play the allies. During the first turn, Japanese player domages several BB in PH. I put two of them in shipyard. During the second turn, Japanese player attacks again PH and domages the two BB in shipyard. They take fire (about 30 and 25 points).

Then I can't do anything with these two ship, they stay in the "manage ships under repair" window and I can dock them. Three days later the fire level is about 80 for the 2 ships!!!

What can I do... A bit suprise that I can't stop fire in a port like PH!!
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RE: Fire and ships in Shipyard. - 10/17/2009 1:59:05 PM   
John Lansford

 

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Can't put ships in the shipyard until all the fires are out.  Shipyard workers don't like it when ships are in their area and still burning.

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RE: Fire and ships in Shipyard. - 10/17/2009 2:57:30 PM   
Don Bowen


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Ships that are a shipyard and then set on fire will be towed out of the shipyard to prevent burning it down. The ship will then fight fires using the normal in-port fire fighting process. This is based on port size (less damage!), naval support, crew experience, systems damage (which includes fire fighting equipment), and "luck". If Pearl's port shows heavy damage, the ships show significant systems damage, and you get a bad random result or two, it is entirely possible for fires to get out of hand.

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RE: Fire and ships in Shipyard. - 10/17/2009 5:53:06 PM   
grisouille_slith

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Don Bowen


Ships that are a shipyard and then set on fire will be towed out of the shipyard to prevent burning it down. The ship will then fight fires using the normal in-port fire fighting process. This is based on port size (less damage!), naval support, crew experience, systems damage (which includes fire fighting equipment), and "luck". If Pearl's port shows heavy damage, the ships show significant systems damage, and you get a bad random result or two, it is entirely possible for fires to get out of hand.


Ok, but how to towe out these two ships? i can't select them

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RE: Fire and ships in Shipyard. - 10/17/2009 5:58:21 PM   
Rainer

 

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Don probably meant in real life burning ships are towed out of the harbour.
The game does not show this, and there is nothing you need to do, or you can do.
Leave the ship alone until the fires are gone, then move it into the repair facilities as you see fit.

< Message edited by Rainer -- 10/17/2009 5:59:06 PM >

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RE: Fire and ships in Shipyard. - 10/18/2009 5:17:59 AM   
rogueusmc


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That's the problem...they are in the shipyard and he can't get them out...

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RE: Fire and ships in Shipyard. - 10/18/2009 6:23:30 AM   
El Savior

 

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Wait and pray until all fires are out. There's nothing more you can do. All actions are automatic.

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RE: Fire and ships in Shipyard. - 10/18/2009 1:14:48 PM   
treespider


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Under normal conditions in game there is a delay when ships come out of the shipyard..wonder if that delay is playing a role here?

I have no idea but I wonder how effective firefighting would be in drydock? IIRC weren't Cassin and Downes burned up in drydock at Pearl?



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RE: Fire and ships in Shipyard. - 10/18/2009 1:51:38 PM   
eMonticello


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quote:

ORIGINAL: treespider

Under normal conditions in game there is a delay when ships come out of the shipyard..wonder if that delay is playing a role here?

I have no idea but I wonder how effective firefighting would be in drydock? IIRC weren't Cassin and Downes burned up in drydock at Pearl?



Yes and no. Although both ships were first written off, upon further inspection, the equipment was considered salvageable. Cassin was towed to Mare Island and the equipment was "moved" to a new hull. The equipment from Downes was removed at Pearl and shipped to Mare Island. I think the Pearl Harbor Report mentions that the hulls of both ships were damaged beyond repair.

http://www.history.navy.mil/photos/sh-usn/usnsh-c/dd372-m.htm

http://www.navsource.org/archives/05/372.htm

http://www.history.navy.mil/photos/sh-usn/usnsh-d/dd375-m.htm



< Message edited by eMonticello -- 10/18/2009 4:03:35 PM >


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RE: Fire and ships in Shipyard. - 10/18/2009 3:25:32 PM   
Rainer

 

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The burning ship is in the harbour, not the shipyard.
Burning ships cannot be put into the shipyard.
At least not in WitP/AE

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RE: Fire and ships in Shipyard. - 10/18/2009 4:05:44 PM   
treespider


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Rainer

The burning ship is in the harbour, not the shipyard.
Burning ships cannot be put into the shipyard.
At least not in WitP/AE


Re-read the original post.

The ships were already in the shipyard. Then they were bombed and set afire.

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RE: Fire and ships in Shipyard. - 10/18/2009 4:15:06 PM   
Don Bowen


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Ships that are on fire can not be put into a shipyard.

Ships that are already in a shipyard and are set on fire will be removed from the shipyard.

All firefighting occurs outside the shipyard, there is no firefighting inside a shipyard.

Once all fires are out, the ship may be returned to the shipyard by the player.


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Post #: 12
RE: Fire and ships in Shipyard. - 10/18/2009 7:20:53 PM   
rogueusmc


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That's the rub...they were not on fire when they went into the shipyard...they got bombed in drydock and set on fire...now he can't seem to get them out of the shipyard.

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RE: Fire and ships in Shipyard. - 10/18/2009 8:04:41 PM   
JWE

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: grisouille
Then I can't do anything with these two ships, they stay in the "manage ships under repair" window and I can dock them.

I’m not quite sure about that, Lee. They remain in repair mode (as I would expect), but grisouille says he can dock them, which suggests they aren’t in the yard anymore.

As Don says, when you start to burn, you get booted from the yard. But what posture do you take?

Question is, just which of the repair modes are grisouille’s ships in. Grisouille, help us out here, screen shots be cool, anything to help figure whas-up. If we know what’s going on, we might be able to suggest “what to do” to get a best firefighting approach.

Just saying they are on fire and I can’t put it out, doesn’t cut it. Need mo data.


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RE: Fire and ships in Shipyard. - 10/20/2009 12:31:07 AM   
jcjordan

 

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I had this same problem w/ a ship in Soerbaja. I had it being repaired in the shipyard only sys/float damage for sometime then mini KB shows up to make rounds around Java & bombed Soerbaja & in the attack the ship was hit causing fire damage to start along w/ additional damage. When I went into the manage damaged ships screen, the ship was red saying something like "can't manage ships on fire" but it didn't allow me to do anything w/ it like sending it back out of the shipyard since it was on fire but it didn't show as a ship anchored in port showing only in the ships in repair screen in red. It was a minor ship & probably a goner anyway due to overall damage so I ended up scuttling it in port from the show ships in repair screen. So there seems to be either a bug type thing in how the ship show in repair or shipyard or a misunderstanding of how damaged ships in repair are handled.
By Don's explanation it should show in the anchored port but in grey/red like any ship that is removed from the shipyard until the fire is out if I understand correctly but that doesn't seem to be the case.

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RE: Fire and ships in Shipyard. - 10/20/2009 3:09:26 AM   
Don Bowen


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quote:

ORIGINAL: jcjordan

I had this same problem w/ a ship in Soerbaja. I had it being repaired in the shipyard only sys/float damage for sometime then mini KB shows up to make rounds around Java & bombed Soerbaja & in the attack the ship was hit causing fire damage to start along w/ additional damage. When I went into the manage damaged ships screen, the ship was red saying something like "can't manage ships on fire" but it didn't allow me to do anything w/ it like sending it back out of the shipyard since it was on fire but it didn't show as a ship anchored in port showing only in the ships in repair screen in red. It was a minor ship & probably a goner anyway due to overall damage so I ended up scuttling it in port from the show ships in repair screen. So there seems to be either a bug type thing in how the ship show in repair or shipyard or a misunderstanding of how damaged ships in repair are handled.
By Don's explanation it should show in the anchored port but in grey/red like any ship that is removed from the shipyard until the fire is out if I understand correctly but that doesn't seem to be the case.


Do you have a save?

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Post #: 16
RE: Fire and ships in Shipyard. - 10/20/2009 4:41:43 AM   
jcjordan

 

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Sorry, doofus that I am I kept playing after scuttling ship & saves written over  

I just found the work around being to scuttle it if ship has too much damage but in my case it was a minor ship so no big loss there but if it's a major ship that might be a problem for some. One thing to watch might be that even though you can't do anything to it, see if the fire damage goes down each turn till it's available to change in shipyard. I'll keep an eye again for same situation or set one up for mini KB. I do have one ship in Soerbaja that is damaged but not on fire that I can send to the shipyard if I can get it repaired.

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RE: Fire and ships in Shipyard. - 10/20/2009 1:42:53 PM   
xj900uk

 

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Well myself after the Japs hit Pearl Harbour had the Arizona on 94 flotation damage, loads of engine damage & 56 fires.  I tried to put it in the ship/repair yard but no dice, I didn't even have the repair option (pierside, repair ship, shipyard) come up in the bottom RH corner.  Because it was making lots of siren-whooping and crackling noises I decided to put it out of its misery...  BTW it was hte only battleship I actually lost from the Jap's pre-emptive strike

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RE: Fire and ships in Shipyard. - 10/20/2009 3:00:18 PM   
Don Bowen


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Ran a few tests and it does look like there might be an issue. The offline repair and firefighting routines keep handing the ship back and forth and end up a little confused over which one has control of it. I'll grease up a Dutch Boy's Finger.

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Post #: 19
RE: Fire and ships in Shipyard. - 10/22/2009 3:02:58 PM   
morganbj


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The fires WILL go out, one way (glub) or the other. 

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RE: Fire and ships in Shipyard. - 10/22/2009 4:23:43 PM   
ny59giants_MatrixForum


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Is there a certain percentage/level that the Fire has to be at before it is kicked out of the shipyard??
If so, what is it??

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RE: Fire and ships in Shipyard. - 10/22/2009 4:24:45 PM   
crsutton


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Yes, fires in port can be a nail biter. I have two email games going as the Allies. In the first my opponent stayed for two attacks and pretty much fully damaged the port. I had two BBs with heavy damage but small fires eventally burn up. Even once the port was fully repaired the march of flames could not be stopped.

In my second game, my opponent only made one attack but shot up my fleet pretty well. However, he did "0" port damage to Pearl which was pretty amazing to me. I had two damaged BBs with fires in the 20 range. One survived and the other burnt up. It is hard to watch but a nice features. However, I am a bit surprised how poor the firefighting ability of a major port was-losing three of four BBs on fire. I would more expect this from a level 5 port but Pearl with all of its support should be able to douse fires.

I would not mind seeing the impact of fire in large ports decreased a bit. This would not only reflect the surplus firefighing assest of a major harbor but also refect the reality that even some of the most severly burnt and damaged ships would be refloated and rebuilt. Where in the game a sunk ship is a sunk ship-even in a port, a better firefighting and damage control could reflect the ability to reuse even sunk ships (well not all).

Not a big deal though. I imagine that Japanese ships are going to be easy to burn up in port so it all works out.

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RE: Fire and ships in Shipyard. - 10/22/2009 4:25:23 PM   
Don Bowen


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Under the current code, a ship that is on fire in a shipyard will undergo firefighting using the normal "in port" firefighting routine. The is, the code emulates repair work stopping and firefighting crews taking over. Not a bad idea, but if the fires are not put out in one day the ship is in limbo and the player has no control over it. Not exactly sure what the player might choose to do, but we've decided to return control to the player in this circumstance. It is a rare occurence anyway, as it requires either an attack on the shipyard or a major accident during repair.

As of Patch 2, ships on fire in a shipyard will undergo fire fighting for one turn (the turn in which the fires broke out). If they are put out, all that is lost is one day's repair time (and any collateral damage caused by the fires). If they are not put out in one day, the ship will completely removed from the shipyard and a message generated to the ops report. The player then has full control over the ship and may put it back into the shipyard once the fires are out (or evacutate it, if the shipyard is under threat of air attack).


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