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RE: Seven Days - 8/12/2010 2:48:39 AM   
Chickenboy


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Canoerebel,

I just wanted to suggest that you scrutinize the SE China map very closely. Some of the dot hexes in this area start at SMS 6 or 7 and can be built to level 9 aerodromes. Two examples that come to mind are Wuhu and Pucheng, both in the vicinity of Hangchow. These should be helpful in your reduction of Shanghai and even in range of Kyushu. Nagasaki's 15 hexes distant, Fukuoka 17. Let the strategic bombing commence!

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RE: Seven Days - 8/12/2010 6:16:23 PM   
Canoerebel


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2/17/45 to 2/24/45

Points Liberation Day: At long, long last, the Allies drew even and then took the lead in points. As of 2/24/45, the Allies have 71,783 and the Japanese 71,612. The event was delayed about three weeks when I unexpectedly lost CV Constellation and her aircraft. While I'm very pleased to be in the lead finally, a nod to Miller for his long, tenacious, never-say-die defense.

What Now: (1) The major effort will go into strategic bombing (the Allies have just 134 points in that department at the moment). This will ramp up considerably once engineers build up the airfields at Ningpo and Wenchow, which will take a month or so; (2) mop up in China (it will take some time to round up and liquidate the vast Japanaese army now isolated in southeastern China; (3) probe for weaknesses along the new front in China; (4) advance down the Malay Peninsula to eventually take Singapore; and (5) invade Marcus Island.

China: The Japanese have strongly reinforced Hangchow, so I doubt the Allies can take this city without a massive and long seige. Rather than do that, the Allies will probe to the north a bit, but the majority of the army will go into the effort to round up and eliminate Japanese units to the south, plus the garrisons at Foochow, Amoy, Kukong, Canton and Hong Kong. Once those objectives are accomplished, the Allies will either press north or invade Formosa.

Malaya: The Allies have taken Kuala Lumpur.

Carriers: I don't intend to risk my carriers against massed Japanese air, kamikazees, and advanced weaponry unless the Allies can use land-based CAP. However, as soon as these new coastal China airbases come online, the carriers will be able to probe around Shanghai and perhaps as far as southern Korea.

< Message edited by Canoerebel -- 8/12/2010 6:18:27 PM >

(in reply to Chickenboy)
Post #: 2132
RE: Seven Days - 8/12/2010 6:17:25 PM   
Canoerebel


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Oops, please dis....um, disperse!

< Message edited by Canoerebel -- 8/12/2010 6:18:08 PM >

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Post #: 2133
RE: Seven Days - 8/18/2010 6:46:06 PM   
Canoerebel


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2/25/45 to 3/10/45
 
Operation Seven Days has come to a close as the Allies have achieved every objective and more:

On the Ground:  The Allies have just taken Foochow and Amoy.  The only remaining Japanese port between Shanghai and Camranh Bay is Hong Kong.  Japan retains strong garrisons at Hong Kong and Canton.  The Allies are about to position an army in the hex in between.  All available troops will report to this hex.  Then the Allies will try to take Hong Kong.  To the north, Japan has strongly reinforced Hangchow, so the Allies have no plans now of moving on that base or Shanghai.  They will probe a bit north in the interior, but by and large the Allies will be satisfied in China with holding the cities taken.

In the Air:  The Allies have taken and are building the bases needed to engage in strategic bombing of the Home Islands.  Ningpo and the base to the west are both at level three, and Wenchow is at level four.  Each of these will begin hosting B-29 squadrons (groups?) when they reach level seven, which may be as soon as a month away.  The Allies have already used level nine Changsha for a few attacks.

The Seas:  Allied carriers continue in their primary duty of escorting massive supply and reinforcement convoys from the DEI to China.  Nearly all troops have reached China, now, so a new era may begin. The Allies may use the carrier to patrol the waters north of Luzon or possibly into the Sea of Japan.

The Future:  With the necessary bases for strategic bombing in hand, the Allies can now turn to other matters.  I have alot of troops arriving and the navy has grown very strong.  I may engage in a series of amphbious operations to create a direct line of communication and supply between CenPac and China - this will necessitate taking Marcus and a few other bases.  Or the Allies may focus on some other significant area like Okinawa, Formosa, or possibly Luzon or Korea.  I'm not sure yet which way I want to go.

SEAC:  Allied troops are about to take a vacant Johore Baru.  The Japanese have 29 units at Singapore, but I have no idea whether they are shells or the real thing.  I'll send a recon unit across the causeway to find out.  I'd like to take Singapore, but I'm only going to commit the units at hand, which is about 1200 AV.  Over in Vietnam, the Japanese  suddenly abandoned their advance bases and are in full retreat to Saigon and/or Camranh Bay.  My best guess is that Miller plans to try a Dunkirk operation of some sort.  He's probably already extracted alot of units from other isolated areas - like Luzon and Mindanao and Java - so perhaps he wants to give Indochina his best shot now. 

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RE: Seven Days - 8/18/2010 6:55:20 PM   
JohnDillworth


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Perhaps t he eduction of Hong Kong is a great opportunity to train bomber pilots. You must have a ton of medium bombers that don't have much to do anymore. Put em all on ground attack for 10 or 20 turns and see what gives

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Post #: 2135
RE: Seven Days - 8/19/2010 4:24:22 AM   
JeffroK


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SEAC: Allied troops are about to take a vacant Johore Baru. The Japanese have 29 units at Singapore, but I have no idea whether they are shells or the real thing. I'll send a recon unit across the causeway to find out. I'd like to take Singapore, but I'm only going to commit the units at hand, which is about 1200 AV. Over in Vietnam, the Japanese suddenly abandoned their advance bases and are in full retreat to Saigon and/or Camranh Bay. My best guess is that Miller plans to try a Dunkirk operation of some sort. He's probably already extracted alot of units from other isolated areas - like Luzon and Mindanao and Java - so perhaps he wants to give Indochina his best shot now.

How many mines can you lay in Saigon etc harbours??

Might be a useful task for the B29's for a week?

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Collision Course? - 8/19/2010 5:06:10 PM   
Canoerebel


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3/11/45 to 3/14/45
 
I think everybody's on a collision course around Canton/Hong Kong.

While the Allied carriers were down in the DEI, Miller decided to do one of two things:  (1) send in some much-needed supplies to isolated Hong Kong, or (2) send in a massive transport force to pull a Dunkirk at Hong Kong.  He loaded up the airfields with fighters to provide protection and sent what remains of his combat fleet to provide escort.

i didn't know this was happening until this turn, but already had my carriers steaming at full speed back to the scene.  They are now in a position to cut off the line of retreat from Hong Kong to the Sea of Japan.  However, they are also venturing deeply into waters close to a handful of major Japanese air bases.  What the heck.

Allied LBA will target the Hong Kong airfield.  All combat TFs at Samah, Kiungshan and Kwangchoan will steam to Hong Kong.

Miller also surprised me by evacuating Canton.  Suddenly there are 26 units on the move to Hong Kong, with just three remaining behind.  I figured he'd make the best stand that he could at Canton, since it is an urban hex.

The Allies have a large army moving on Hong Kong, but they bulk won't arrive for perhaps a week.  Another army should arrive at Canton over the next seven days, with the advance units in just a few days.

The next turn could be a massive air/sea battle centered around Hong Kong, or Miller could somehow move his ships so that it fizzles.

If a massive air/sea battle erupts with the Allies emerging victorious, so that what remains of his fleet is sent to the bottom and his Canton/Hong Kong army is isolated, that could be the kind of blow at the end of a long, long period of suffering that might persuade Miller that he's had enough.  I'm not saying that's what will happen; just that it's not totally out of the question.
 

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RE: Collision Course? - 8/19/2010 7:45:37 PM   
crsutton


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CR,

Don't know if you have been following the thread on low level attack in the main forum but wanted to get your imput on low level attacks. You are far enough along to have had some experience.

Are the Allied attack bombers effective in anyway (I might not upgrade the b25c)?

How are you using fighter bombers? Do they do anything worthwhile?

Naval attacks at 100 feet or 1000? What works?

So far I have not seen strafing do anything worth a dang. They do not shoot up airfields and parked aircraft and staffers don't seem to bust barges or small ships. Am I missing something?



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RE: Collision Course? - 8/19/2010 8:32:07 PM   
JohnDillworth


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quote:

llied LBA will target the Hong Kong airfield.  All combat TFs at Samah, Kiungshan and Kwangchoan will steam to Hong Kong.

Have the ships left Hong Kong yet? If not plaster the port. That will slow down his loading enough to get your carriers an angle that doesn't get you to close to his big airfields. If the ships have left Hong Kong cut as many destroyers loose as possible in 2 ship task forces to intercept. You might run into some escorts but his planes will have a tough time hitting DD's and your can definitely mess his @#$t up enough to fracture the task forces and slow them down enough until the calvary arrives.

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Today I come bearing an olive branch in one hand, and the freedom fighter's gun in the other. Do not let the olive branch fall from my hand. I repeat, do not let the olive branch fall from my hand. - Yasser Arafat Speech to UN General Assembly

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RE: Collision Course? - 8/19/2010 8:48:17 PM   
Canoerebel


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I had already sent the turn back to my opponent when I posted, so it was too late to make any adjustments by then.  I got an email back from my opponent that he ran the two-day turn.  It crashed on him near the end of the second day, so he's going to re-do it tonight or tomorrow morning.  But he said that things were going very badly for him.

crsutton, to answer your question I haven't been using my bombers at low level for a variety of reasons.  I've found that 2EB are very fragile in the face of enemy fighters - and, as anyone who's followed this AAR knows, Miller's fighters have remained very potent right through the current date in the game. 

I've found it much more effective to use my big 4EB to hit airfields and occasionally for port strike missions.  I've only used them at high altitude.

Another factor is that Miller doesn't send his ships anywhere close to big Allied airbases except on very rare occasions.

< Message edited by Canoerebel -- 8/19/2010 8:49:07 PM >

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RE: Seven Days - 8/20/2010 4:40:17 AM   
Cap Mandrake


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Madre de Dios! How do you guys move so fast?

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RE: Seven Days - 8/20/2010 1:35:58 PM   
Canoerebel


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We have played at a frantic pace. This is how:

1) Two-day turns (makes the game speed along)
2) I haven't watched a combat replay in something like ten months. This allows me to flip a turn back to my opponent in as short as 20 minutes. (combat replays for two-day turns can take forever!)
3) THe Allied system is pretty much on auto-pilot now. There's not much going on except in China.

< Message edited by Canoerebel -- 8/20/2010 1:36:54 PM >

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Post #: 2142
RE: Seven Days - 8/20/2010 3:09:15 PM   
Canoerebel


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3/15/45 and 3/16/45
 
A massive air/sea battle did take place in and around the Hong Kong to Formosa corridor.  The Allies inflicted a beating on the Japanese, but the extent of the beating was, in my opinion, in line with the relative capabilities of the two sides at this point in the game.  IE, considering all of the disadvantages Japan suffers by early '45, their forces performed fairly respectably.  But they still took a licking. Does that make sense?

Sea Battles:  First, a series of Allied combat TFs engaged what seemed to be two strong IJ CA/CL/DD TFs.  The first was anchored by CA Takao and some CLAAs; the second by CAs Kumano and Mogami.  The Allied TFs included one anchored by BC Renown, one by BB Wisconsin, one by BB New Jersey, and some smaller forces.  The end result was that Mogami went under, Takao is crippled, at least eight DDs went under, and other ships were beat up badly.  A few Allied DDs took it on the chin, and at least one BB took a torpedo, but that was about it.  The IJ ships did prevent the Allied ships from getting amongst the transports.

Air Battles:  A series of strikes by Allied naval strike aircraft encountered massive Japanese CAP and really got chewed up.  It still amazes me that Japanese fighters are so very, very robust this late in the game.  Nevertheless, enough strike aircraft got through to do some heavy damage to the Japanese DD force and probably 20 to 30 good transports, including AKA and the like.

Overall Impact:  Long-term, this battle further eroded Japan's rapidly declining naval power.  I don't think Miller had more than three or four CAs left, and he just lost at least one and maybe two.  This battle may also seal the fate of the isolated Japanese garrisons at Hong Kong and Canton.  Yet the strong showing by Japanese fighters indicates that the Allies are still in for a rough time whenever the airforces come into play.  I still have to be careful about exposing my carriers and transports to massed Japanese air.

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RE: Seven Days - 8/20/2010 3:36:16 PM   
JohnDillworth


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I'm surprised and disappointed that 3 BB/BC based task forces could not brush aside a few CA's and get at his transports. In 1945 this should have been carnage. I know the Japanese CA's are good, but they are not super-human. Miller certainly got the best out his CA's. They did their job right to the end.
I wonder how effective his fighters will be intercepting big bombers once you get going on strategic bombing. If you are going o get close to the home islands you have to figure a way to grind down his fighter strength.

_____________________________

Today I come bearing an olive branch in one hand, and the freedom fighter's gun in the other. Do not let the olive branch fall from my hand. I repeat, do not let the olive branch fall from my hand. - Yasser Arafat Speech to UN General Assembly

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Post #: 2144
RE: Seven Days - 8/20/2010 3:39:30 PM   
Canoerebel


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Well, to be honest my task forces were fairly small.  I sacrificed concentration of power hoping that sheer numbers of task forces would be able to pierce the enemy shield and get into the transports.  When I issued the orders, I didn't really know what I was facing.  But here's a good example of the surface action:

Night Time Surface Combat, near Hong Kong at 77,61, Range 5,000 Yards

Japanese Ships
     CA Mogami, Shell hits 7,  on fire,  heavy damage
     CA Kumano, Shell hits 4
     DD Asashimo
     DD Kiyoshimo
     DD Hayashimo
     DD Yanagi, Shell hits 17, and is sunk
     DD Tachibana, Shell hits 3,  on fire
     DD Nire, Shell hits 6,  heavy fires
     DD Tsuta, Shell hits 1
     DD Hagi, Shell hits 5,  on fire
     DD Kaki, Shell hits 2
     DD Shii, Shell hits 9,  heavy fires
     DD Nashi, Shell hits 8, and is sunk
     DD Sumire, Shell hits 5,  heavy fires
     DD Enoki, Shell hits 2, and is sunk

Allied Ships
     BB Wisconsin, Shell hits 12,  on fire
     CL Pasadena, Shell hits 2,  on fire
     DD Allen M. Sumner, Shell hits 2
     DD Cooper, Shell hits 1
     DD English, Shell hits 1,  heavy fires
     DD Moale, Shell hits 1
     DD Taussig, Shell hits 1
     DMS Jeffers

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RE: Seven Days - 8/20/2010 4:59:13 PM   
Chickenboy


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Canoerebel,

Does Miller have any reasonably sized AF bases within 12 hexes of Hong Kong and / or Canton? If so, can you LRCAP a few of them to interdict some of his transport a/c? I'd be air transporting everything I possibly could out of HK to Formosa. Formosa to Kyushu.

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Post #: 2146
RE: Seven Days - 8/24/2010 3:20:41 PM   
Canoerebel


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3/17/45 to 3/22/45
 
Canton/Hong Kong:  The Japanese vacated Canton, which the Allies took on the 21st.  Next is Hong Kong with a stack of about 59 units.  I think it's worth devoting an Allied stack of 4,000 AV or so, and then bombing and bombarding the hex until supplies are gone and the Japanese units are a wreck.

Eastern China:  As noted previously, the Allies have all coastal bases from Ningpo to Swatow.  Base building continues apace.  There are four or five stacks of isolated Japanese units in the interior.  I'm trying to corral and destroy them, but it's harder than it sounds.

Northern China:  With the Japanese establishing firm roadblocks at Hangchow, Shanghai and Nanking, the Allies have turner northwest and have taken several smaller bases.  It looks like the Allies may be able to totally cut off the Japanese units at Changsha, Chentah, and nearby bases.  Thus far Miller doesn't seem inclined to withdraw from these precarious positions.  Over in the Sian/Loyang area, the Chinese bypassed and isolated a large Japanese stack, but Miller is having some success in extricating them, and the Chinese units in the area aren't strong enough to finish off decent Japanese units in good terrain.

Carriers:  The CVE TFs retired to Samah, replaced downed aircraft, and moved to a point south of Hong Kong.  The main carrier TFs then went to Samah.  Most aircraft have been replaced, but I'll leave them in place two more days.  Fuel is a factor.  I want to send the combined carrier fleets into the East China Sea, but I may have to retire to Balikpan to refuel.  Not sure yet.

Malaya:  An artillery unit is going to "recon" Singapore by committing suicide.  This base has 29 Japanese units, but I have no idea how strong they are.

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RE: Seven Days - 8/25/2010 9:20:50 AM   
CaptBeefheart


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This might be considered gamey, but how about dropping a para fragment on Sing? You could put a C-47 unit on 90% rest and drop a a squad or two on the base.

Cheers,
CC

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Post #: 2148
Selah - 8/26/2010 6:05:37 PM   
Canoerebel


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3/23/45 to 4/1/45

Received this message from Miller:

"Sir,

The Emperor has instructed me to request an unconditional surrender to spare the brave Japanese civilian and military forces any further harm. I trust you are willing to accept this offer, in the hope that our glorious nation can rebuild again in peace.

Yours,

The overall commander of the military forces of the Japanese empire."

My reply:

"Of course I'm glad to defer to your wishes in the matter. You always amaze me in your faithfullness to continue with the game far beyond the point most players would concede. It's been a tough game, but the "fun factor" must be pretty low at this point for you. Thanks for the good and challenging and frustrating and eventful game. Not only was I challenged; not only did I have fun; but I learned a heck of alot that I think will help me in the future.

What will you do next?

P.S. My password is [redacted] if you want to take a look at my force disposition. My general plan for the future:

1. I wasn't going to invade Japan unless I reached the point where I had nothing better to do with 10,000 AV.
2. I was going to try to bomb Japan unmercifully from Ningpo and nearby airfields.
3. I wasn't sure whether I was going to devote the Allied army in China to a campaign in northern China, or whether I would use them against Formosa or possibly Korea. I didn't want to make that decision until Hong Kong was dealt with.
4. I was gathering forces at Pearl and Attu Island (the latter still had troops left from the Kuriles campaign) to invade Marcus. That probably would have taken place in about six weeks."

A few notes about highlights of the game since the last posting:

1. An Allied army crossed the causeway into Singapore, but was roughed up. This seige was going to take awhile and plenty of reinforcements, which were on the way.
2. An Allied army of 8,000 AV was about to arrive at Hong Kong. I think this siege would have been successful and wouldn't have taken too long.
3. The Allied carriers and reinforcement transports made their first foray into the East China Sea and were landing troops at Ningpo and Wenchow. Miller sent in all his combat ships, including Yamato and Musashi, and they savaged an Allied CL/DD force and some transports. Allied carriers had strike aircraft mostly stood down (I didn't want my planes flying off against small craft in these crowded waters, as had been happening so frequently), but the few squadonrs that didn't get orders did some damage to the BBs.
4. The game ends with the Alies ahead by about 2,000 points, but it was going to take a LONG time to reach auto-victory. Without a doubt Miller could have held out until the end of '45 if he was having fun doing so. But he held out far, far longer than most people would, a faithful opponent to the end.

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RE: Selah - 8/26/2010 6:21:05 PM   
Walloc

 

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Gratz on ur victory and kudos to Miller for keeping the game alive.

Kind regards,

Rasmus

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RE: Selah - 8/26/2010 6:22:51 PM   
pws1225

 

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Many thanks to both you and Q-Ball for a very entertaining and educational AAR.  As a newbie and a follower of this AAR for several months, I have learned much from your willingness to share your thoughts.

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RE: Selah - 8/26/2010 6:41:44 PM   
JohnDillworth


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Well played by both. I am sure I speak for many when I say how much we enjoyed this AAR and how much we will miss it. I look forward to your analysis of Millers disposition, and Millers comments on the game and AAR. Thank You!

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Today I come bearing an olive branch in one hand, and the freedom fighter's gun in the other. Do not let the olive branch fall from my hand. I repeat, do not let the olive branch fall from my hand. - Yasser Arafat Speech to UN General Assembly

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Post #: 2152
RE: Selah - 8/26/2010 6:55:28 PM   
anarchyintheuk

 

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Congratulations to you and Miller. Great game and aar.

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RE: Selah - 8/26/2010 6:55:48 PM   
Chickenboy


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Bummer. Sorry to see this AAR come to a close. I have been enjoying your game vicariously through your well-written AAR. Miller did well to hold out for so long and kudos to both of you for sticking through until the writing was clearly on the wall.

Thanks for your AAR efforts, Canoerebel. It has been an educational experience for myself and, I'm sure, many other players that have lurked on this thread. Best wishes for your other game(s).



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Post #: 2154
RE: Selah - 8/26/2010 6:57:32 PM   
Canoerebel


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Thanks, Gents.

Here's a summary from Miller:

"I was just about down to the bare bones. My surface fleet consisted of basically everything you saw in the last turn, 2 BB, 1 CA, 2 CL and about 40 DDs.....everything else was on the bottom. I did have a CV and CVL sitting between PH and the WC for a few weeks but they did not find anything to attack.

My air force was still a threat but there was no way they would be able to get through your CV CAP, unless you went near the HI, which you said you would not do anyway. I had enough supplies left to get me through another 3 or 4 months at most.

Your invasion of China was the game winning move, just a shame I wasted the KB near Singapore a month or so before that. As always it has been an honor to play you, we had a few disagreements but worked them out."

(in reply to Chickenboy)
Post #: 2155
RE: Winding Up - 8/26/2010 7:04:19 PM   
BBfanboy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: pws1225

Many thanks to both you and Q-Ball for a very entertaining and educational AAR.  As a newbie and a follower of this AAR for several months, I have learned much from your willingness to share your thoughts.


Ditto from this newbie as well. I was hoping to see Miller use more kamikazes to get a sense for how this affects the Allies late in the game, especially with the leaky CAP in AE. However, I certainly understand that your opponent would not find committing suicide much fun, even if he did score some points from time to time. Kudos on your effective use of every type of power you could wield!

PS - you may want to do something about that Mao guy before you bring the boys home from China ...

_____________________________

No matter how bad a situation is, you can always make it worse. - Chris Hadfield : An Astronaut's Guide To Life On Earth

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Post #: 2156
RE: Selah - 8/26/2010 7:06:27 PM   
Smeulders

 

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Nice game, congratulations to you and Miller and thanks for the AAR

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RE: Winding Up - 8/26/2010 7:35:26 PM   
Canoerebel


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quote:

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy

Ditto from this newbie as well. I was hoping to see Miller use more kamikazes to get a sense for how this affects the Allies late in the game, especially with the leaky CAP in AE. However, I certainly understand that your opponent would not find committing suicide much fun, even if he did score some points from time to time. Kudos on your effective use of every type of power you could wield!



I was determined not to put my carriers in a position where massed kamikazees could hit them - at least at close range from mutliple bases. Kamikazees never sortied in massive numbers against my carrier TFs, but I'm not sure if that was due to (1) Miller not ordering the strikes, (2) him ordering the strikes but the game not cooperating due probably to distance, or (3) pure luck.

Miller had real problems getting his bombers to coordinate with escort. He'd have 200 escorts accompany 15 bombers, then 75 bombers come in unescorted. This happened all the time except at very close range. It drove him to distraction. From my perspective it seemed reasonable. By '44 and '45, it should be very hard for the Japanese to get coordinated massive and effective air strikes against good enemy carrier TFs. Since my CAP and flak were pretty ineffective, the results would have been catastrophic had he been able to get everybody to coordinate.

(in reply to BBfanboy)
Post #: 2158
RE: Winding Up - 8/26/2010 8:22:56 PM   
Q-Ball


Posts: 6961
Joined: 6/25/2002
From: Chicago, Illinois
Status: offline
Well done AAR and game, I really enjoyed this one

I guess that will put pressure on me to get turns back to you Dan a little more consistently......Miller beats me in this regard, work is too up and down.

Maybe you should try a game as the Empire for a change.....

_____________________________


(in reply to Canoerebel)
Post #: 2159
RE: Winding Up - 8/26/2010 8:31:00 PM   
Canoerebel


Posts: 21098
Joined: 12/14/2002
From: Northwestern Georgia, USA
Status: offline
Miller and I have pretty compatible schedules since he's five hours ahead most of the year. He could play when he got off work (or before he went) while I can play at work. With that kind of schedule and two-day turns, we blew through the game pretty fast. I think we started last October?

I've considered playing as Japan, but I don't think it's well-suited to my personality. I can be patient while waiting for the Allies to wax strong, but I don't think I would do well with the "clock is ticking" aspect of playing Japan.

Anyhow, one game at a time is enough for me.

(in reply to Q-Ball)
Post #: 2160
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